CD Projekt SA, the Polish video-game publisher of Cyberpunk 2077, said it will defend itself vigorously after an investor sued the company for allegedly misleading holders of its depository receipts and incurring losses.
This is getting spicy
Hold onto your glitchy hats
Investors lost a billion after the launch because of how CD misled on the actual game performance on devices that would make up the largest share of consumption. What exactly are they going to defend?
@Eon probably gonna nitpick over the wording in their contracts, as lawyers usually do
What do you want with your popcorn?
Not Cyberpunk, that's for sure
I am against these sort of lawsuits but CDPR did know game wasn't ready and they internally releases it anyway. Why not release it on pc and wait for consoles till 2021? They have tainted their consumer friendly reputation But many gamers are defending CDPR when these same gamers would hate on other big publishers if they did something similar
This, I never understood why it was essentially ready for PC only, why they couldn't just release it first and release last gen when the next gen versions drop. Would have made so much more sense
Because they got pressured from the very same people who now want to sue them. Business logic. The investors always win.Its like ordering someone to put a hole in the bucket and then sue him for not beeing able to deliver enough water.
We're not sure why they released it in this state, there's a high chance investors pushed for it imo against developer recommendation, that is the natural order
To the comments below: Yes but let's also not forget CDPR said it again and again it will come out when it's ready. Investors pressure I would guess so but I think they gave into multiple factors Investors pressure Ending the year with a bang Generating more money Gamer pressure And biggest I still think is the fact they started looking at themselves as invincible. They thought we are CDPR and we are so pro consumers that the backlash won't be that much. I truly feel bad for the developers who worked on this game for 5+ years and than to have their work gets such bad attention
Sure they'll defend themselves vigourously, but it's still time and money down the drain. Plus there's simply no question that the game wasn't ready for release on last gen consoles. If you agree to offer full refunds, then you've already admitted the game was broken at launch. I hope this teaches the CDPR execs a very valuable lesson.
Not just CDPR but other developers aswell, like if Bethesda wants to come out with other buggy games. So hopefully they are taking their time with Starfield and Elder Scrolls VI
What other games have the kidding capabilities of bethesda games? What other large open worlds like theirs that allow their amount of interaction are there out in the market and have no bugs?
@RgR I'd say Skyrim glitchy mess, insanely long loading times, and game breaking bugs at the time were ok because of how ambitious and revolutionary the game was, same with other old Bethesda titles. Something like Fallout 76 is just unacceptable; is like a mockery to your fanbase
I was perfectly fine with it. Taking 8 years to build a game isn’t really an option. They’ll probably make there game less ambitious since everyone’s throwing a fit over crap that’s not even an issue
Even some of the Fallout games was very buggy
Does seem odd, doesn't it? Do something, apologise for it, then deny doing anything wrong when it's taken to court? Projections led investors to anticipate 3.5 million more sales of this game before Christmas 2020. The messaging and developmental shortfalls resulted in backlash which reduced sales via refunds suggested by CDPR themselves. I'm sure there's more to it that we don't know about, but I'd be interested in seeing how they intend to defend against this. If they're successful, I will take notes lol...
I dont think they're trying to deny they did something wrong Sully I think they've acknowledged that I just think they disagree with the lawsuit.
The issue at hand is if the wrong is actually justifiably illegal and proof of wrongdoing. Many times games come out with bugs and glitches so there can't be any wrongdoing there. Performance problems? Many games release with those as well....not proof of wrongdoing either. The release was just indicative of it being released before fully optimized and polished. So what was the wrongdoing? Releasing it early? How is that unlawful?
@ RgR not entirely sure everything they've told investors over the course of say, 2 years. But when they did push back the launch from Spring to Fall of this year they stated the game was done and the additional time was to polish and perfect the game. They have misrepresenting their product knowingly for some time. While I don't necessarily agree with the lawsuit and even after refunds the game has sold incredibly well and will continue to sell well once these issues are patched, a next gen version is available and more next gen consoles are out there.... the fact of the matter is that lying to investors is simply illegal. And I'm pretty sure these investors have ample proof of just that. Had they been upfront and honest with investors they wouldn't be in this position. had they remained a private company they wouldn't have this issue so on and so forth.
It's kind of a joke that Bethesda games always got a free pass for bugs and glitches and the graphics on their games were never even that great, especially on 360/PS3. I get that the base last gen consoles couldn't run cyberpunk and that is unacceptable but the way people are overreacting about the glitches on the other versions is excessive. Cyberpunk is still a really good game despite all of the controversy. The world, the story, the graphics and the non politcally correct jokes and ads are all excellent. This game is what the sequel to Deus Ex Human Revolution should have been.
CD built up a sterling reputation for quality and customer satisfaction in a way (at a speed) that no one had ever really done and then they completely upended that quality, satisfaction, and trust. Most of this was built by one game, The Witcher 3. Sure, you had the other entries, but they were far less ambitious and popular. With Bethesda it was a little different; we learned to expect and accept large open worlds that were buggy so long as the games were generally good. Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim were all solid, but the latter two lacked the polish of the former. So, two different situations for these devs that both ended quite the same, with trust and satisfaction being squandered in lieu of a fast buck. I really hope we get a return to quality and that companies have learned from the disgrace of Bioware, Bethesda, and now sadly, CDPR.
Yes and No. Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout had barley been in digital age on consoles, and those digital refund policies were strict. Besides that, those games were playable... even thou those game ran poorly on PS3 due to split ram...Sony would do shit. We needed this. We needed 8 mill preorders to go sour. We also needed stupid move of giving refunds from CDPR on Sonys platform where Sony ended up with millions of requests and outcry. So Sony refunded everything and removed a game from store. Never in History Sony done that other than Fallout 76...I think Sony gave some refunds but quickly dropped them in respond to incoming patches. It's a precedent to behold. Now publishers will think twice of releasing unfinished product because it could reflect in loosing company's stock value, which is much harder than losing sales. And Sony will have some quality control on their store end.
HAHA CDPR always launches buggy messes. Where you been?
Im sorry. The quality was clear and actually more in depth in witcher 1 and 2. Witcher 3 just got all the lousy casuals on board and thought wow...this is amazing. Some of us were like...the graphics don't look as good as the 2nd and what's with all these fluf aide quests....sure they were better then most other open worlds but they're still fetchy quests. Their quality was clearly up there with witcher 1 and then 2. But all 3 of them had bugs and glitches....especially on consoles...performance issues were there. Not sure what quality you were talking about
It's not just cyberpunk. In court you can't say stuff like it was buggy and therefore you can get sued. It has to be more specific and be able to be applied in other instances. So in this case. If the issue was the bugs then literally any game out there is susceptible to being sued. If the issue is performance dropping below 20fps then games from the past and games out right now could potentially be sued any moment fps drops below 20. Not to mention performance is always linked with hardware. On pc if you try playing a game with a super low end card you'll get low fps...buts that's not the problem with the game but with the console. So it really won't hold up to scrutiny. Are they sued over their projections for sales? Well they're called projections for a reason.
i don't know anything about the inner workings and promises with investors, thats really separate like you are saying from just a game being buggy. We really won't have any idea until the court proceedings become public.
Imagine if people sued Nintendo back in the day for releasing starfox at 15fps haha
You really are intent on only seeing his one way. Why are you even bothering to comment at this point? This is a civil case, there is no jurisdiction bringing charges against CDPR yet. It a civil case there is not standard of reasonable doubt. All investors have to do in show they were mislead and that lead to damages and CDPR is on the hook for their losses. CDPR made numerous public statements about the state of the game that almost all proved to be false, and everything we've seen from the investors side says the same thing. If you're trying to undercut a court case with whataboutisms you're not really thinking your comments through, because thinking a judge will nod along to obvious logical fallacies is hilarious. This will no doubt get assigned to an arbiter. No one is going to wants to preside over rich people bickering when nothing of substance is at stake.
they're suing because the investors potentially lost money when Sony pulled the game, because CDPR had told the investors and the public at large that the game was ready for launch, which according to their own admission, it was not.
They knew the state of the game that is on the largest install base of gaming. They lied and they sold it while letting fluff reviews out first. Everything else does not matter. Not time, not which hardware, nothing. They will lose the cases and putting up a defense will MAYBE keep their losses in check. That is all.
But that isn't true. PS4 can run Cyberpunk. Its obviously not running at the same quality as PS5 or even PS4 Pro. The graphics and framerates suffer. But I'm playing it on PS4 and its not "unplayable" like people claim. Is it glitchy? Yes. But its glitchy on everything. The problem is on PS4 its just no where near what we were told the game would be, graphically.
So why would Sony pull it from their store if the game isn't broken?
Bethesda never lied, the only difference here buddy.
"16 times the detail", "it just works", "high quality SE canvass bag" lol Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not defending what CDPR did or their chances in this lawsuit, but Bethesda lied to consumers - many times. Maybe not investors, though, or they'd have found themselves in the same boat as CDPR.
Skyrim graphics were great for its time and still passable now......the glitches....well.....ya.
Gonna lose millions. Thats for sure. Try to explain a game launched after 8 years that got so many problems and isnt free....
Runs fine on the target platform and more powerful consoles. Some bugs but that can happen. They can show the game running on the preferred hardware and it will look absolutely gorgeous in court.
Apparently the game is a broken mess on PC too, but in any case the target platform was the platforms they decided to release the game for... They targeted the PS4/Xbox One audience and maybe they shouldn't have.
Target was Ps4 and Xbox one aaaaand PC. 8 mill preorders, probably 5 mill on PS4. That preferred hardware only came recently in a 3080...an that's what? 100k people? Probably less. Oh and a PS5 and XBX which run last gen port.
@RgR Please explain what you mean by, "runs fine on the target platform." Are you suggesting that PS4 and X1 were not the "target platform?" Then who was it that released Cyberpunk2077 on PS4 and X1? Oh wait... it was CDPR. Now you understand why they are getting sued by investors. CDPR themselves said the game was targeting PS4 and X1. CDPR told investord that PS4 and X1 were target platforms, and that the game runs fine on those "target platforms." They straight up lied about that, and that's why they're getting sued. CDPR lied to get investment money. However, becasue of the true state of the game on those "target platforms" - investors lost a ton of money when the game released. Investors now want their money back. It's understandable. The truth was that Cyberpunk 2077 runs like dog turd on PS4 and X1 - if CDPR had been honest and told the investors the truth from the start, heck if CDPR had told gamers from the start that the PS4 and X1 versions were not ready for release - they would not have had to issue refunds, and investors would not now be asking for their investment money back either. This is why CDPR should have simply released the game on PC and next gen consoles, and then maybe worked on the last gen versions when it was ready. No way you cut it - they mismanaged the project, and misled investors. It's only right that if customers can get refunds on the game, then why can't the investors can get their money back as well.
Really. I really cant understand how any gamer can say that. Try to defend them... They can show that. But lawyers just need to go to you tube and get hundreds of video showing how crap and buggy it really runs. A studio that doenst let review come out before the game is on the stores and doesnt let use capture video but what they sent.... Sorry, i hope the are force to pay hundreds of millions. This got to stop.
I completed the game on pc after 165 hours, not one crash. I saw a few humorous glitches here and there but no more than other AAA games and nothing game breaking!
I've played and finished the game on PC. No crashes, a couple of bugs and some graphical glitches. No worse than any Bethesda game that launches. It's a great game with really memorable characters throughout. It will get better over time and they will release great expansions like they did with Witcher 3. I'm looking forward to the game's future expansions and free content. It should not have released on the previous consoles. They were 7 year old hardware and were underpowered as it was when they released. CDPR should have launched on PC first then the new consoles in 2021. They are PC developers after all.
That's buyer discrimination then. "Buy this product and it will work but buy that product and tough luck. By the way, we won't warn you of the severe defects with the other product in advance- on the contrary we will lead you to believe its high quality. Both products cost the same too."
"some bugs" doesnt even get close to how busted this product is. I freaking love this game, its incredibly fun, im already on my second play through and I never finish anything.. but the game is very, very buggy. I'm 100% certain this title did not pass QA, at all. Showstopping bugs were simply waved because of time constraints and the money dropped into advertising that you dont get to spend twice.
JustTheFax "not one crash" HAHA liar. yes, im going to call you a liar with zero evidence. I'm on my second playthrough and this glorious masterpiece crashes every couple of hours. my friends on various other platforms all report similar experiences. great game, but you dont gotta lie to kick it.
@Stanjara 8mil pre orders 51% was pc alone 49% on every other platform, cdpr stated this a week or so ago, i run it on a 2060+9700k at 75fps 1440p patch 1.04 caused me a ton of crashes but it worked fine after a reinstall. Had like 5 bugs which have been fixed. I still get bugs on skyrim to this day quest breaking ones. CDPR are pc develops pc is always there target platform.
The game wasn't in development for 8 years. The game wasn't even in full development until the end of 2015 early 2016 after they released TW3: Hearts of Stone DLC which came out October 2015. 4-5 years is still no excuse but acting like its been in full development for 8 years is quite exaggerated.
That’s ridiculous and only makes them look worse. So not only did they pointlessly tease a game they weren’t working on for years, they hid how underdeveloped and lazily slopped together the game was in an attempt to take customers money and maybe fix the game later. Nice.
I hope this sets an example of what not to do with your game launches (release them half-assed)
Of course they will do that, but they have alot to answer for
Not any more than others devs. It has always being their money on the line. It's not like they can gurantee a profit. They pay their devs and pay for the advertising and marketing. Who do they have to answer to and for what do they have to answer exactly? Consumers don't own them and consumers are free to not buy their product. They're already working on fixing it so not sure what else the expectation is here.
When you provide an investment you need to provide a clear message to what.
What a world we live in. Consumers feeling entitled to sue over a game that didn't meet their expectations. Sure hope it backfires on these investors. I don't care what crappy state a game can come out in certain platforms. If I make an uninformed decision I'm the only one to blame. Nobody was under duress to invest or to buy their product. Reviews on pc even mentioned some performance problems and tons of bugs. Console players jumped in believing everything would be fine? And what do they see: performance problems and bugs. Oh what a surprise!
Reviewers weren't allowed to review the console version, and all they showed was the PC version. They made sure console players couldn't make an informed decision, that's exactly the problem.
Then you wait. And even on the pc versiin there were a lot of bug reports. As well as clear issues with optimization...but somehow both of those things went over peoples heads when thinking if it will have issues on the base consoles.
"Consumers feeling entitled to sue over a game that didn't meet their expectations." You can't be this ignorant of the situation. You just can't be.
You're right I'm not. I just don't think peoples false sense of justice should prevail. Not seeing that the issues on pc would carry to the base consoles and likely be worse is the actual ignorant thing.
Except it's the investors suing not consumers so...
An investor can't also be a consumer? And ya I'm well aware
The devs literally lied to console players saying “it runs fine” on consoles before release. If the would have said the game does not run well on last gen buy at your own risk we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Do some research next time.
"If I make an uninformed decision I'm the only one to blame." Except CDPR already admitted that they lied about how the performance was on consoles. It was false marketing. They admitted to purposely withholding review copies for consoles because they KNEW the state the of the game. People who bought the game couldn't make an informed decision because they were blocked from knowing the facts and only knew what CDPR was lying about. But way to defend shitty, lazy, and greedy developers who KNEW that after eight years they couldn't produce anything worth while. Oh and you mention the reviewers only talking about PC, the ONLY version they were given. You neglect to mention that the reviewers also had extremely unfair rules that censored what they could say. They couldn't talk about the bugs (only that they were minor), they could NOT use any footage of the game that they captured themselves, and they were NOT given console copies to review. Any reviewer that blindly gave it a 10 needs to be examined on the legitimacy of their review because the game on PC or Console so nowhere near a 9 or 10. It maybe barely a 6 or 7 on PC but it still runs like crap, even lower on console.
Defense: "We had to sell it in that state cause we wanted to make money"
What people are failing to realize is that suits like these are not made to win, they're made to settle. The case isn't being made for the state of the game at launch for consumers, but investors being misled. All in all, with everything CDPR said in their statements and investor calls, specifically in the language they used, there's not enough out there that would make them lose this case. Their bases are probably covered enough for that. But nobody expects them to outright lose. The firm that filed this is probably banking on the other two firms that discussed suits actually filing them, thus giving CDPR three suits to deal with at the same time (and from different countries too). That's a lot for CDPR to handle, and even if they could argue a win out of one case, three at once is a lot of money. So they'll probably do exactly what this firm wants: settle. You have to understand, this isn't about "justice", it's about money lol doesn't mean CDPR didn't do wrong, but this case isn't in the realm most gamers are used to. My point is, for gamers, this still comes down to what it's always come down to. Vote with your wallet. If you like CDPR and want to support them, buy the game. If you dislike them, don't buy it, and encourage others to do the same. This lawsuit has nothing to do with us whatsoever.
I wonder how long this will drag out for
Not long. The case will get thrown out. You can’t invest in something and then sue when the product doesn’t meet made up projections as misleading lol. That’s the game of investing, you can invest in something successful and get a crazy return on your investment. Or you can invest in something stupid and lose your ass. What you can’t do is sue when you lose your ass lol. It’s not a win/win scenario. It’s a high risk/high reward scenario.
You've never been at a shareholders meeting have you? If you had then your reply wouldn't have been so ignorant or ill informed.
thats not how it works, like, at all.