@nexus-6 I didn't hear that, but even if it was said, who said it? The source matters. Also, Sony (and by Sony I mean Jim Ryan) also said, and I quote, "We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include." This had gamers thinking ps5 games would be ps5 only games, instead for the next two years Sony exclusives will also be coming to the ps4, so what does what someone supposedly said even matter.....it's only true until they turn around and do the exact opposite of what they said they would do.
Looking in to it, it appears my comment was wrong. Masayasu Ito alluded that to keep up technology advancements they'll likely introduce a Pro model halfway through the PS5's life cycle. Which he also stated would be about 6 - 7 yrs.
Sony normally works on a 10yr life cycle, introducing the next console about 7 or so yrs into those 10yrs.
That says to me the if he's saying a 6 - 7 yr life cycle, they'd likely introduce PS6 around 2025/26 what would be the point of a PS5Pro?
But it might be a reason why ms has gone with the 'series' moniker so they can easily release iterations at a later date.
Happy to be wrong.
Sony already has 2 Sony studios games exclusive to PS5, as far as I know there's also no mention of GOW going to PS4.
That 2 yrs comment strictly applies to the other mob.
I disagree. I'd wager there will be a PS5 Pro. I feel very certain of that. Most patents from Sony don't materialize well, but there was one that makes a ton of sense about using a second APU as needed.
Medman,
If you're quoting Ryan,
"We believe that when you go to all the trouble of creating a next-gen console, that it should include features and benefits that the previous generation does not include."
Where is the lie in that statement? PS4 does not have Wifi 6, the Dualsense, or HDMI 2.1 to name a few things. Those are features and benefits, aren't they? That statement is factually accurate. Misleading, perhaps—you clearly interpreted that differently than one way, and I should add that the PS5 will most certainly be getting exclusive software to the platform (they already have with Astrobot and soon, Rift Apart, which really isn't possible on PS4). The PS5- specific content is on a bit of a slow rollout, but I also think it's really important at the moment that most software comes to PS4 because supply is scarce and development costs are very high. I think it's fair that early adopters don't have much exclusive content at all—the whole point of being an early adopter is that you accept a lot of potential risk, a lot of shortcomings, etc. Kind of like beta testers. A dearth of exclusive software is one such shortcoming. It's up to you what you play it on. You could play Persona 5 or MGSV on PS3 2-3 years into PS4's life.
If there was nothing setting PS5 apart from PS4 besides some software and prettier graphics, I might agree with you. But everything I'm hearing strongly indicates that the very experience is different, and that includes the same software. I might liken it to experiencing games on Wii vs. Gamecube/PS2.
You definitely should want software that is highly tailored to PS5, but I don't think it's a deal breaker this early on since it's really hard to find and, like I said, early adoption is a consumer- accepted risk. These are people who knew about the software challenges and were okay with that if it meant playing the best version. Frankly, I have no qualms about that.
I think there will be in 2-3 years. By then Sony will have learned how to improve efficiency and let's be honest, as nice as the PS5 is, wouldn't you prefer it if it was just a bit smaller?
And I would say with certainty that we'll see another Xbox. The whole naming convention behind Xbox makes that obvious. Technically, Xbox One consoles are "Series" models. Xbox [Series] is a placeholder with X indicating high end and S indicating entry model.
Xbox, going forward will very likely have S and X hardware. There will be a slim PS5, but I think it would be silly to believe Sony Sony compete with a Pro model.
@JackBNimble I don't think that is the reason. I was playing PSVR on my classic PS4 just fine. Also the Xbox One X was introduced without VR in mind, so there clearly are other reasons for introducing a pro version mid-gen. I don't think that Sony and MS differ much in their economic decision making.
In any case, I will wait for the pro. Until then I play on PC and PS4. Last gen sucked for me because I adopted early and now I am unsure about buying a new console. Thanks Sony. (Thanks MS, too.)
Its actually even more likely this gen than ever that there will be Pro models. Microsoft has actually discussed a lot how difficult it has become with the current 7nm process to really expect significant price reductions on components other than perhaps the storage. So what will mostly likely happen is that 3-4 years down the line, the same processor that they currently use might not be way cheaper than what it is right now, but for the same price it will be much faster, which is where Pro Models come in. In the absence of the ability (and probably desire given how they are sold at a loss right now) to significantly lower the price, they only drop them $100-150 at much in the first half and also introduce a more expensive pro model that then makes the regular model look less expensive
I'm not worried about the SoC temps, because the fan should have more than enough headroom to deal with rising ambient temps.
The RAM temps are disappointing. Hopefully they won't cause issues with higher ambient temps. If they do, that would be a massive oversight on Sony's part considering the amount of R&D that went into cooling the SoC. This won't deter me from getting a PS5 though. It seems like the metal shielding allows for a TIM application that uses the full area of the DRAM chips. I also doubt that they are using a very good TIM on the DRAM chips in the first place so there should be room for improvement.
This guy knows his stuff. I've been following his channel for a while. I would expect Sony to adjust the fans to compensate in the future, they have stated as much. I also expect this to be addressed in later models (the minor revisions) possibly by improving the contact area, changing the thermal paste or a combination of the two. The ram has higher thermals than it should for sure but I also think it's within tolerance. If he comes across as scathing in his analysis believe me he's harsh with everything he tests.
Its barely within tolerance levels though, and with very decent ambient temperatures and he even mentions that due to the limitations on the testing methodology, he would expect it to be a few degrees higher.
Definitely something for Sony to look at in the usual minor revisions that they do all the time
"This might be why we are seeing the artifacting problems on some ps5 units"
Those are defective units. This isn't about determining the cause of defective units at all. And as far as you know that "artifacting problem" was caused by a well-placed lighter much like vape was used to cause "smoke" to come out of "some" XSX units.
It would be a hardware failure, but it isn't. Without thermal pads on memory, which are some small blobs, memory would be even hotter. It's the same crap on PS4 motherboard too.
My launch PS4 runs fine . My kids use it everyday . That’s where I would be worried if the hardware was failing but it’s been 7 years and it’s been used a LOT . PS5 cooling as a whole is a lot better than PS4 so I’m not worried
If you compare ps4 pro and ps5 design they really didn change much. All they did is remove dvd drive and fill it with a heatsink. Then slab a dvd on the outside. I am waiting an xbox x comparison from this guy but I can tell you now themps for the memory will be better cause the modules are on the same side as soc and covered by the same heatsink.
The problem I could see that the console may be within tolerances (barely) but 1. Astrobot is not a game that will push and stress the hardware as heavily as future ps5 games will, and 2. What happens when you operate the ps5 in a room where the ambient temperature is far above the controlled 20 degrees celsius of this room's test environment? In the heat and humidity of summer, in places where many don't have central air or even air conditioning, this could be an issue going forward.
it should also be noted that the level he was testing in Astro's playroom was the area where the sand is being blown on the beach and it stayed there for an hour before the temps were recorded. He did note that the memory is hotter than he would like. In this brutal test the hardware was at full load and in most use cases you won't have that many things going on on screen at all times. He speculated that the memory being hot may be the root cause of the image Artifacting that some users are reporting online but it does not appear that he noticed the same issues during his test or he would have given us a first hand example. Its good to hear that there are some things Sony can do without a having to do a hardware revision as the fans can be sped up if it gets too hot with a future update and as a PS5 owner myself, I have not noticed any artifacting issues though to be fair the only PS5 game I have played so far is Astros playroom.
You are exactly right here. No game will be intensive drawing power for two one or two in a row. Theyr are parts in the game that will do that, other parts in the game will draw less power so the temp, wil go down and the fan will draw out the heat. This kind of testing is not the real world scenario. Nobody will let that game run iddle in an powerdrawing scene for two hours. This test is not what is happening when you play the game, so this test is meaningless.
Interesting point is that the panels removal reduced the temperature quite significantly. 5 degree Celsius reduction is quite a lot, and for a heat reaching 90 degree on memory getting 5 degree reduction may need some thought. It made me thinks, on how can the engineer not looking into this when designing the PS5.
They should have realize it or because of aesthetic they leave it. 90 degree is tolerable but still not good if you're gaming heavily. Games is looking better and better and sure it requires power. Power generates heat.. a lot.
Bear in mind that this is when the fans is still clean, what happen when it starts collecting dust. Surely by that time it will reached 100 degree without realizing.
Yeah Gamer's Nexus is more credible than Digitial Foundry. They will correct themselves if they made a mistake in testing or no longer recommend a product. They go out of their way to turn down corporate sponsorships relating to the product to remain an unbiased credible reviewer. Digital foundry has been shown to make mistakes a lot and they are paid by some of the companies of the products they review.
Playstation consoles have been some of the most long lasting and dependable hardware I've ever owned, the engineers at Sony clearly know what they're doing, I wouldn't worry too much.
I have Sony cameras, 2 tv's, AV receivers. 2 blu ray players and 2 AS sports cameras.
Oh and I've been gaming for about 40 years.
I know Sony have some sort of Demi God status for some of you, but ive moved away from them over the last several years as they aren't the premium quality brand they used to be
RROD Split board design Poor pixel fill rate Slow clocks Inferior controller Inferior games No infinity cache No geometry engine 2015 SSD tech from surface pro Incredible screen tearing in the middle of the screen...
@SierraGuy Some of those things you mentioned are actually features, not flaws, so please do go on. I've been looking for a comprehensive list of everything going on with Xbox hardware.
Then again, you seem to have hardware and software issues confused in some cases, so you might not be a very good source after all.
@sierraguy not sure why your listing Xbox issues to me. I don’t care about Xbox issues and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything I spoke about..... the point I made was that Sony have had several publicly massive console issues over the last few years. These have made prime time tv news channels and forced extended free warranties after several very public investigations... are we pretending these didn’t happen??
This homoerotic connection you guys have with your platform of preference is just weird!
@SierraGuy ... umm ... just to clarify on the "Poor pixel fill rate" part ... How do you gauge pixel fill rate? Because it doesn't represent real-world performance. Just saying from a technical pov. Its just a calculative number. PS4 Pro had 40% higher fillrate than the later released One X. ... And also split board design is not a -ve. Partial split design has been seen in PC before. Intel even release Intel NUC 9 this year with a split design. Mac Pro canister (2013) also had a split board design. ... Won't argue with RROD though, It was abysmal.
I don't trust a guy who uses a rubber mallet to pop the top off a console. If anything I'll believe I fix it or Ben Heck if Sony did have severe heating issues we would have heard about it by now.
Sure you seem to forget that there are stupid people who will whack the top of the PS5 to pop off the top it's called monkey see monkey do. Then those stupid people will wonder why the top is cracked or why there are black rubber marks on it they will think the white top is hard to get off and you will need the mallet for it.
That’s and interesting video. Seems like memory runs hot, but I think it is safe to assume that Sony did sufficient testing to ensure this is safe for standard life span.
Pc guys, myself included, always expect very low temperature vs what silicon is capable of. Heat is an aging and parametric drift factor for electronics, but if designed correctly, semiconductor can operate safely around 100/125°c junction temp. Thermal shutdown can be set as high as 180/195°C.
It would be interesting to have same numbers for PS4 pro. Even if it seems high, maybe that was already the case for current gen, with no issue reported.
It is good to have some insight of this kind of stuff, but it is easy to jump to conclusions without knowing all the reasons and validations done by Sony design team that ended with current design.
On the cautious side, I would also consider that the metal plate have been dismounted to fix thermal sensors, it may have messed a little bit with thermal perf.
Steve pushes hardware beyond normal use, puts them in extreme circumstances. So take his findings, Sonys findings, work out the average - and I'm sure temps will be fine.
Consoles don't run or are designed to run like PC's - I'm also sure the PS5 runs cooler than the PS4 & PS4Pro. Not once did either of those consoles (for me) have any trouble (apart from fan noise).
I've played PS5 (Demons Souls) all day in above average ambient (30⁰c) temperatures, PS5 didn't miss a beat - cool & quiet.
Sony has also already stated as games become more demanding they can adjust fan curves through firmware updates.
He didn't push the PS5 beyond normal use. He tested it in a room with an ambient temperature of 21 degrees Celsius. He had Astro's Play Room run for an hour. He tested the memory and soc and found the bottom part of the memory ran above 90 degrees with shroud in place and below that without it. Once again, he just didn't push the console beyond normal use.
When you have an intensive scene and you let that stand iddle for on hour without touching the controller you can call that beyond normal use. Nobody in the real world does that. So you are wrong.
Big difference between them and GN, though. All DF did was look at thermals through a thermal camera - that only gives you surface temperatures. Those can be high - and in a sense, should be high - as it just shows how much heat is being transferred from the silicon to the heatsink, or where some internal heat might be "pooling".
The important thermals are what the temp of the silicon itself is. They tore this down and attached thermocouples either directly on the die, or as close as possible, to get accurate temps for how hot the silicon is. That's the kind of heat that you are worried about in terms of throttling or - in extreme cases - silicon longevity. If it ends up boiling too high for too long over the years it could shorten the lifespan.
The SoC appears fine, it's just the memory that seems to run hot. Apparently that could be better, and it appears Sony could have done something to improve the transfer of heat even with the design they have. It doesn't sound like it's a problem, so much as it just isn't as good or efficient as it should be.
I see the difference, appreciate the heads up. I trust Cerny and Sony's engineers to make a high quality long lasting system I'm sure it will be fine and if any revisions must be made I'm sure they'll make them.
Great video and very very thorough testing. Of note here around the thermal performance is that the warranty will be important. All those buying consoles from Scalpers....no warranty. The PS5 warranty is NON TRANSFERRABLE. Meaning you are SOL if you have any issues. So you are getting screwed on both ends.
Room for PS5 Pro
I'm not worried about the SoC temps, because the fan should have more than enough headroom to deal with rising ambient temps.
The RAM temps are disappointing. Hopefully they won't cause issues with higher ambient temps. If they do, that would be a massive oversight on Sony's part considering the amount of R&D that went into cooling the SoC. This won't deter me from getting a PS5 though. It seems like the metal shielding allows for a TIM application that uses the full area of the DRAM chips. I also doubt that they are using a very good TIM on the DRAM chips in the first place so there should be room for improvement.
This guy knows his stuff. I've been following his channel for a while. I would expect Sony to adjust the fans to compensate in the future, they have stated as much. I also expect this to be addressed in later models (the minor revisions) possibly by improving the contact area, changing the thermal paste or a combination of the two. The ram has higher thermals than it should for sure but I also think it's within tolerance. If he comes across as scathing in his analysis believe me he's harsh with everything he tests.
Playstation consoles have been some of the most long lasting and dependable hardware I've ever owned, the engineers at Sony clearly know what they're doing, I wouldn't worry too much.
I don't trust a guy who uses a rubber mallet to pop the top off a console. If anything I'll believe I fix it or Ben Heck if Sony did have severe heating issues we would have heard about it by now.