Dirt 5 PS5 Haptics Will Be Redone; Dev Says Series X I/O Can Push Over 5GB/s Uncompressed

Dirt 5 Technical Director David Springate talked about his experience with Xbox Series X fast storage and said PS5 haptics will be redone.

[Jin_Sakai]

“Series X I/O Can Push Over 5GB/s Uncompressed“

We already knew this.

“PlayStation 5 SSD speeds hit 9GB/sec with custom 12-channel controller“

https://www.tweaktown.com/n...

Dirt 5 Technical Director David Springate:

“I've seen a lot of people say they really like the PS5 haptics. We're not happy with it, so we're going to be revisiting our haptics, even though I've not seen anybody say I hate the haptics in Dirt 5, we are not happy with it so we're going to go back and redo it.”

“It looks like he realized that what went into the shipped game could be way better, and it's definitely good news for PlayStation 5 gamers as they'll get an even better handling experience once this is added to Dirt 5 via a future update.”

Sounds great. The DualSense haptics are amazing.

[darthv72]

Wait... I thought it was 2.4gb uncompressed and 5gb compressed?

[purple101]

What am I waiting for. ?

[solideagle]

that's what I know as well.
https://www.extremetech.com...

[Imp0ssibl3]

Yes, that's part of the new info.

[1nsomniac]

Yea the fanboys want you to gloss over that as to not hurt their feelings..

Meanwhile, so had he made an error there or is he saying retail performance exceeds what was expected??

[gravedigger]

Theoretical is ~6. Same as on PS5 up to 22 theoretical max

[Babadook7]

It’s just a confusion of terms. The XSX can move 2.4 gb/s raw. That is the basic spec and hasn’t changed. If that 2.4 gb/s is all compressed textures for example, and expands that to GPU formatted data (uncompressed) at a compression rate of 2.2x that would be over 5 GB of uncompressed GPU data per second that was delivered through the I/O. But it was sent compressed. This has been talked about previously by Microsoft. Nothing new. The PS5 can send 5.5 GB/s RAW which when uncompressed ends up being the equivalent of 9-18 GB/s.

[gravedigger]

Curious how Dirt 5 dev changed official Xbox Series S/X SSD specs. :p

[Niv]

2.4 is max. He talking about simultaneous calls which would burn CPU.

[solideagle]

I think Xbox can do over 5 GB compressed not uncompressed.
https://www.extremetech.com...

This director/dev is talking about making multiple calls at once thats why you can get that number.

"The way to get the most out of fast storage on all platforms is to make many requests at once. You want to load five hundred textures, forget loading one texture, you want to load them all. That then gives some challenges to how you lay out your data. You need to know where they're going to go in memory, you need to know what is it you need before you ask for it. That's a challenge, it's not hardware, it's not the API from Microsoft or Sony, it's an engineering challenge. We're very close, we've done loads of testing, it's not something I'm gonna come to saying it'll come in a patch but it's something I'm very interested in personally."

[dcbronco]

Which means if other APIs only do one at a time this is an innovative option by Microsoft has done that they won't get credit for. And it's something that makes the difference in raw speeds of the two consoles irrelevant.

[solideagle]

@dcbronco
It's more than that...making parallel calls is pretty standard in todays APIs world. raw speed will still be there no matter what it cannot be denied. let me give you a rough example
Console A: 100 assets/sec
Console B: 50 assets/sec

if we make 2 simultaneous calls on Console B it will be 100 assets/sec in theory but how many can memory and bandwidth allow is up to the console. you can do same thing on Console A as well. so base speed will always be there

[rlow1]

Really? So a guy who actually made a game. Was early on with the system feedback. Has run multiple test to figure out how to get the most out of the system and says it's Uncompressed. But because Digital Foundry who hasn't made a game, runs a few test, all of a sudden that is Gospel? I think I'll take the word of the people actually making games on the system.

[IRetrouk]

Dc, he mentions both consoles when talking about using multiple calls, why would ms get the credit for it 🤔🤣 how does it make raw speed differences irrelevant if both systems can do it🤔 the speed difference is still there🤣 that reach man👌

[IRetrouk]

Ms says upto 6gb with velocity, it 100% aint doing 5gbs raw, its a gen 3 ssd for a start.....

[dcbronco]

It's called innovation. Old tech is often given new abilities after years on the market. It's just rare for that to happen when they are still in major use. Experts sometimes mention wishing they knew procedures during a products heyday that would have given it so much more ability.

[IRetrouk]

That may be so, but you are not getting 5gbs raw speed from the ssd they have put in the ssx, remember we have already seen what it is, its a gen 3 part🤷‍♂️

[Mooncake]

Technical director testing the drive begs to differ. He is pretty specific about it.

10GB raw data in 2 seconds without using the hardware compression.

[IRetrouk]

🤣ok man, whatever you say👌

[RazzerRedux]

@Mooncake

"He is pretty specific about it."

No, he is not. He is very vague about it. And he contradicts himself.

"I think that hardware is great, I worked on it with Microsoft early on and provided some feedback to them. I looked at the speed that we could get from it, you can get 10GB in two seconds in my personal early tests, it may well be able to do way better than that."

"That's a challenge, it's not hardware, it's not the API from Microsoft or Sony, it's an engineering challenge."

lol....what? So he is testing the hardware but it isn't about the hardware? ok

[darthv72]

it's gen 4 but I can see why some would think it is gen 3 due to the specs. It is just on the low end of gen 4 so there is room to grow.

[IRetrouk]

No, its a gen 3 card with a gen 4 controller....

Low end of gen 4? Its medium end gen 3 at best going off the specs ms themselves have released...

Room to grow? The raw speeds of the ssds are fixed, while the apis that take advantage of the speed and io systems can be improved the raw speed cant, unless you swap out cards.... and even then the cap is actually with the io system and its compression, it can still only handle so much data before a limit is reached, according to ms themselves thats 6gbs of compressed data, best case...

[chronoforce]

If my understanding is correct he is basically saying the hardware is not the issue. He seems to indicate getting more data off the drive is matter of how you organise the data. 2.5GB/s is peak sequential read and most current gen games from a data point of view are organised to maximise sequential read bandwidth for obvious reasons.

He says the way the to get most out of fast storage is by making tons of requests at once. This sounds like a 4k QD32 t16 test where random read/write performance and IOPS is what is actually being measured.

It is possible that making by making random reads less CPU bound as well as well optimising data organisation to maximise random read bandwidth you might be able to read more data off the drive than the seq read max would suggest.

Treat the drive less like a spinning disk and more like ram.

[darthv72]

Well then they designed it to be replaced with higher capacity drives at some point. And wouldnt those drives then be able to take advantage of that gen 4 controller? Regardless of the current SSD drive itself, the controller is a gen 4 and with it comes all the benefits and restrictions therein. They were thinking ahead to other configurations, just like the CFE memory cards. There will be ones that are faster and ones that are higher capacity and ones that are cheaper.

[RazzerRedux]

"Well then they designed it to be replaced with higher capacity drives at some point."

Huh? What do you mean? XSX's internal SSD? No....that is not designed to be upgraded. And there are 2 lanes for its PCIe 4.0 rather than 4 which is what halves its speed down to effective PCIe 3.0 levels even if it is technically PCIe 4.0.

[Smclaren1985]

I wouldn’t believe anything coming from the dirt dev team. Have you seen the game? Lol

[darthv72]

@razzer, yes the internal drive can be removed / replaced. It is not surface mounted like the PS5. which means there may be Series S with 1tb and Series X with 2tb in the future.

[RazzerRedux]

"@razzer, yes the internal drive can be removed / replaced. It is not surface mounted like the PS5. which means there may be Series S with 1tb and Series X with 2tb in the future."

Uh....you are talking about entirely new consoles with larger size SSD. That is not the same thing as "removing"/"rep lacing" the internal drive which you CANNOT do as those SSD components are not available for purchase. You are talking about an entirely new console to upgrade your internal storage. PS5 is probably going to have larger size SSD options as well. What does the fact that the SSD is soldered on have to do with that?

You are not making any sense, dude.

[darthv72]

@razzer... have you not seen the teardown of the Series X? It shows the NVME drive as being socketed and not permanent. Meaning MS (right now) has the option to use the exact same 1tb drive in the Series S as they do with the X. So when they decide to start shipping 2TB SX to retail, they will then likely use the existing 1TB drives in the Series S. It is no different than when there was the XBO with 500gb and then later they swapped out that for a 1TB drive.

Yes, it all makes perfect sense. And if MS can do it then you know others will be able to figure out how to upgrade their stock drives to higher capacity. I know of some who had their stock drives replaced in the 1X with something larger (2tb) and even faster (SSD) so do not think it is not possible to be done. Both Series units use the same 2230 size drive while the PS5 bay can fit a 2230 up to a 2280.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/...

[RazzerRedux]

"Meaning MS (right now) has the option to use the exact same 1tb drive in the Series S as they do with the X. So when they decide to start shipping 2TB SX to retail, they will then likely use the existing 1TB drives in the Series S. It is no different than when there was the XBO with 500gb and then later they swapped out that for a 1TB drive."

Who cares? These are internal components.

"And if MS can do it then you know others will be able to figure out how to upgrade their stock drives to higher capacity."

Bye bye warranty. But fine....here is an option:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/...

$351 and that is just for a 1TB. Higher capacity on a small wafer....that's not cheap.

You know how many x2 PCIe 4.0 SSDs there are on the market? I sure can't find any.

So you think a m.2 2230 PCIe 4.0 x2 drive is going to be common and cheap? Uh.....no. Hell...you are better off with Xbox proprietary.

[nickanasty206]

I love to see that third parties are adopting the haptics and triggers. If this continues and proves the Dual Sense is not a gimmick, i will probably be buying all my third-party games on Playstation instead of Xbox. To me the haptics in the PS5 are the next-gen immersive experience, so if it is implemented in games like Sony showed with Astro, I am all in on Playstation for Third-Party games. We will see how this pans out in the end. I still feel that Astro really is the proof in the pudding here for the Dual Sense though and haven't experienced the same amount of love in any of the other Sony first party games. In Spiderman, it is much less noticeable at least on the Remaster, i haven't gotten to Miles Morales yet, and even on Demon Souls, its a decent implementation, but still doesn't live up to Astro. I hear COD does a really good job with it, but can't confirm that because i refuse to buy a COD game, but for shooters i definitely see this tech as being a complete game changer and is something i have been wanting on Mice for PC for a long time.

[CaptainHenry916]

The PS5 controller is like icing on the cake

[gravedigger]

Btw. 9 GB is with Kraken only, without Oodle texture. With Oodle texture it can go around 15 GB/s on average

https://cbloomrants.blogspo...

Zip 1.64 to 1
Kraken 1.82 to 1
Zip + Oodle Texture 2.69 to 1
Kraken + Oodle Texture 3.16 to 1

https://www.resetera.com/th...

[purple101]

While your there... Redo the online.

Fun game but I can't get a party games match on PS4pro here#. Fix it. Or I take you to court for selling me a dodgy game

[Thatgrammar]

@purple101
This is such a ridiculous comment. You know perfectly well that the chances of the developer reading your comment is close to none. Also, you should replace the word “your” with “you’re” within your first sentence.

[Profchaos]

At least you stand by you're name... /S

[boing1]

You have no idea who reads these comments. There are few devs here.

[yeahokwhatever]

I can say with confidence that its greater than 0.

[waverider]

really, i dont understand why the game is so average and got pop ups, screen tearing.... should focus on making a good game. and not pr about duel sense or i/o speeds...

[ApocalypseShadow]

Dual Sense is turning heads. Even making developers go back to the drawing board to do better.

That's what you call a "game changer."

Lol. Get it?...ummm..yeah.

[CaptainObvious878]

That's a very good point actually.

This developer is taking DS so seriously that, without anyone actually complaining, they're going back to improve it.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

The game has screen tearing on X Series the game needs better optimizing. The director mentioned that he got the Dev kits late from. MS. I think he said with mid dev cycle or late.

That backs up that rumor that MS held off and waited for full RDNA 2 capabilities. So devs were receiving late GDK's mid way through development.

This gen just barely started these consoles haven't even got off the ground yet. . Definitely looking forward Sony's epic 1st party games. Hopefully MS new studios will breathe new life into the console.

[Father__Merrin]

Looks a fun game also looks it will play best on ps5

[Mooncake]

That was a great interview. I watched the whole 2 hours!

[Eidolon]

I watched it twice!

[Bender6502]

I'll go with the developer on this one. There may be caveats that he hasn't mentioned, but I don't see why he would mislead. He obviously believes what he is saying.

[Tetsdah]

People have been discussing comparison vids for some games already. Can someone provide links? I've only seen ACV, and DMC 5 SE so far.

[Mulando]

Well, I guess he meant 10GB/s worth of textures or anything like that, as he than said that you don't load single textures but many small one. So only parts that are visible. Just as a comparison classic loading (load the whole texture) vs new concept (SFS).

[gravedigger]

Phison controller has a HARDWARE LIMITATION around, i think, 3.2 GB/s IN XSX. That's a well known fact. So,over 5 uncompressed is SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE.

[Broly1120]

India doesnt even have a release date yet (20th Nov.) and Sony is celebrating worldwide launch

PS - the trademark issue got resolved last month

[zangief31]

Hi all..anyone had a chance to test 120hz or hfr mode on ps5? It looks and plays terrible on my display..any help would be appreciated!