Epic says Apple ‘has no rights to the fruits of Epic’s labor’ in latest filing

The game maker is locked in a battle with Apple over App Store fees

[ApocalypseShadow]

This is getting so good that there's just not enough popcorn to enjoy.

Maybe Epic doesn't have any rights to the fruits of Apple's labor in creating the hardware and the platform.

[1nsomniac]

The problem is everybody is so far up their own arse with this bullshit propaganda that some people actually think Apple are the good guys here... which is next level stupid!

[Sephiroushin]

Apple is not the good guy but damn there is a level of retarded and these people from Epic are retarded...

For example if you got a store where you sell, let says shoes, would you accept me going to your store leaving you some boxes of shoes there and tell you that the person has the option to pay less if they send me money through my Paypal or w/e platform that the money is directed to me 100% and nothing for you (the store)?! Would you accept?! ....
Obviously No!!!!

And if you do accept its either for 2 reasons...
1. For a cut of the sale
2. Or you're just dumb amd want your business to fail...
nothing is really free in life...

[1nsomniac]

To answer your example Apple have the choice to outright decline them from selling anything at the door straight away. That’s perfectly acceptable. It’s Apples choice to allow them to sell it or not. But these shoes also have a huge impact on Apples sales.

If Apple didn’t have the App Store but every other company did have their own. Would anyone buy the Apple product knowing that they couldn’t use their favourite piece of software while they could on other devices?

Nothing is free in life because we’re brainwashed by capitalism. Many free open systems work perfectly. Just not if your a megalomaniac corporation.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Epic is a multi-billion dollar company trying to portray itself as a tiny business being exploited by Apple. This simply isn’t true. Epic violated Apple’s terms of service in a failed attempted to Increase their own profits. Epic is crying because their Fortnite revenue on iPhones went from 100s of millions of dollars to nothing at all.

[Sunny_D]

“But these shoes also have a huge impact on Apples sales.”

The amount of money Apple makes from Epic such as Fortnite is really not that much compared to how much they are worth. That’s why they were perfectly content with taking Fortnite off the App Store. Devs need Apple more than Apple needs them.

[RgR]

It's not about good guy or bad guy. It is about business and fairness.
Epic agreed to their terms and breaks agreement.

If you did not agree then they lied.

Epic wants more money, that is all.
They should do what they did with the epic store. Create their own hardware and platform for phones.

@insomniac

That is pure nonsense. The only reason they are able to sell thier software is because of apple so it doesnt make sense to now say that apple would have no money without the software. They specifically created the store for software. If there was none to sell then they would not have created the store.
Also, nothing is stopping other companies from creating their own platforms. IF they choose not to invest in their own that is not apples fault. Apple is also selling these companies their storefront so it stands to reason that they should be allowed to make the money they ask for if the other party agrees.

And no, capitalism is not at fault. History has shown that capitalism works better than any other system. If you dare to say that other countries just did it wrong then ponder this. How is it the capitalism worked the first time without mass hunger and death while communism and socialism have continiously caused severe hunger and death?

[ApocalypseShadow]

No one said that Apple was the good guy. I don't even like Apple. All my phones have been Android after flip phones. Just that they are right on their assumption. You believe Epic should only pay rent and that's it. But many businesses do percentage rent. Once you get over a certain threshold of money you make, some owners are going to ask for a cut of the profits. Those numbers were already stated. 70%/30% in favor of Epic in all transactions. Epic just wants to pay rent and keep 100% of all transactions. And you call that fair. I don't.

If it's your hardware, your services and your policies on who makes what that is fair, I don't see how you think you're right that Epic can bypass that and get away with it when the contract was already signed.

Epic is well within their right to go elsewhere to make money. They just want to have their cake and eat it too. With second and third helpings.

[Sephiroushin]

Nothing is free in life and if it is it youre the product...
You could say that open source stuff but even then many times youre also the product!

Your comparasion is super awful... Its like saying because I bought a ps5 i can put w/e i want at the ps store and Sony dont need to get a cut, or because i got an xbox i can put anything on the MS store and Ms not get a cut because i bought their hardware product; really aweful comparasion...

Epic is also a multi billionarie company, they are free to make a phone and an operative system as well as add a store and put their rules...

Amd what apple did if not decline by kicking them out? I mean they let them pass the door because they signed and accepted the term of says store but as soon as these assholes where inside the store they tried to exploit and break the terms so they got kicked right away out of the door... Nobody told Epic to break their rules its their fault... They seem to be the one who needs Apple more since you dont see apple crying about it...

Ah and this is from someone who dislike Apple stuff!

[Sephiroushin]

These people are retarded... They didnt make the phones, the iOS, anyways they didnt make Apples ecosystem to be saying they can use it for free...

[1nsomniac]

So if I go and buy a Samsung Fridge should they get not just a cut, but a 30% cut of all the food I buy to put in it??

Apple sell a product and make trillions from it. The work that they put into their product is their own product support. Companies provide them with additional products/software that people can use on those Apple systems. Why should Apple get a cut at all in all reality! Due to the nature of our society maybe they should get a cut, but 30% is an absolute joke by any stretch of the imagination!

That same product they sell, if it breaks they are consistently applying for laws to make it illegal for you to repair it yourself no matter how easy or cheap it is to do so. They openly want to force you by law to pay a premium to them and only them to fix your product. They also are trying to file for them to legally decline repairs out right so that you have to repurchase the item in full again no matter how simple the repair.

Apple is one of the richest companies in the world it’s not because they produce superior advanced products. It’s because they try to make as much money as possible while providing the least financial option possible.

[Tacoboto]

1nsomniac, that's a very bizarre and improper comparison.

More accurately: If you buy a Samsung Fridge, Samsung wants to sell you the food you put in it, from their own setup inside the store you bought the fridge from, and that store won't receive any cut of what you buy from Samsung Grocery.

[ziggurcat]

Doesn't sound like Epic knows how business works.

They host your games to play on their platform, they get a piece of the pie. It's that simple. I'm sure Epic takes a piece of the action from their own retail platform, and I'm sure they think they have every right to that piece of that pie, too.

[ApocalypseShadow]

That is what I find quite interesting. They are really getting bold in their comments and moves. As if they think they are running the show.

[RazzerRedux]

These are lawyer arguments. They are purposefully inflammatory and hyperbolic.

[Teflon02]

I'm glad it's showing how ridiculous Epic is being. Too many ppl were defending the dumb choices of epic when they were 100% in the wrong lol. Sounds like they're getting desperate now. It's definitely going to hurt them more than apple in the end. Don't care for either but if I broke Epics terms they wouldn't hesitate to remove me despite me making them money lol. So f this nonsense

[blacktiger]

you guys don't know what open means and what close means, Apple can't do what they want,. you youngsters needs to learn that from Microsoft for Anti-trust and Anti-consumer,

Microsoft can't do what they want because they own windows.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Apple's platform and hardware are closed. They own it and have every right to decide their policies the way they want that is legal and fair. As for Microsoft... https://www.google.com/amp/...
Microsoft gets a 30% cut on all dlc and micro transactions on Xbox. So, you're really standing on a flimsy argument.

On Windows sure. They decided last year to give app developers a larger cut with stipulations. But that's only really to gain ground on other PC game stores. The same thing Epic did to try and gain ground on Steam.

Apple doesn't need to gain on anyone on their hardware and services. They provide it, others have to conform to their rules or they are more than welcome to take their business elsewhere.

We can not like Apple and Apple can be right at the same time. Because in all transactions, developers get SEVENTY PERCENT. And Apple, just like Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony, get THIRTY PERCENT. If that's not enough, Epic should go and make their own device and services. Oh wait, they want to use Apple's instead without paying a cut.

[DeusFever]

That goes both ways. Epic wants to free ride on Apple’s ecosystem.

[masterfox]

A invited guest comes to your house and says: "I have the right to do whatever I want in your house and you can't do a damn thing to stop me".... sure that will end well.

[mastershredder]

This going to end with an Epic Fail.

It’s NOT your platform or rules, epic. Anyone that distributes on the appstore has contractually agreed to Apple’s terms (which you violated! Derp!). Epic must be “special” or run by a child pushing his first app. I’m shooting for the later.

[Sunny_D]

If Epic is crying about paying a 30% fee then why are they paying a 30% fee on the gaming platforms like PlayStation, Xbox or Nintendo and maybe even Steam I assume?

[FlameWater]

I will never use an Apple product but I hope they destroy Epic in court.

[Knightofelemia]

The person with the most money usually always wins this type of fight unless both parties are super rich like Samsung and Apple then the fight becomes a stalemate. As for Epic and Apple in a fight I would say Apple will win or they will settle out of court because Apple has the most money and Epic can only fight for so long before their cash runs out. Apple lawyers are trained well to find loop holes sniff through patent violations they sit there and feed on this stuff.