730°

Why PS3 Emulation Is So Hard Even After 15 Years

As we learned earlier in the year, the PS4 won’t be feature any backwards compatibility outside of the PS4. While a disappointment to many, some had wondered why it was that some PCs were capable of running emulations such as RPCS3 yet a next-gen console such as the PS5 isn’t. Well, for those who aren’t very technical, a new video by Modern Vintage Gamer breaks down the very reasons as to why it’s not easy to emulate the PS3, with professional input from a former member of Sony’s own ICE team.

VenomUK1672d ago

Call me an optimist but I don't necessarily think this is the end of the PS1, PS2, PS3 backwards compatibility dream! The reality is Sony has a 110+ million install base of PS4 owners so it was paramount to carry them over to the new generation so that's why it has invested in getting this working. But what Sony will discover through the player use metrics is just how much PS5 owners use PS4 games. It will see how valuable this is and may then look to conceivably expand compatibility to the older generations. No guarantees but at the start of the new generation when next-gen game releases are limited Sony is going to be shocked and delighted at how popular backwards compatibility and BC with boost mode on PS5 is.

Rude-ro1672d ago

Sony has offered bc on all consoles in one way or another except to the PS4.
Sony are tech engineers.
The base is not concerned with backwards compatibility.
Is it/would it be cool? Sure.
Would it generate a lot of revenue? No.
It is niche. Known through sonys long run in console gaming and offering bc.

Sony pushes boundaries and tries to push things forward.
Cameras, tvs, stereos, batteries, etc etc etc..
They win some and lose some, but they are not about being stagnant and slapping a price on old and calling it “new”.

They gave up the fight per the direction of the ps3s architecture because no American tech company would ever allow the hardware to change that could effect software.
Microsoft, google, etc. all put up that fight.
Especially in the ps3 erA where Microsoft was loosing major ground/trust per insecure os builds and the like,

So now, Sony is focusing on what they do best... game coding.

They may not be allowed to “rewrite” computer hardware... but they sure as hell know how to pierce together the puzzle to make THE best game engines per their consoles.

darthv721672d ago

PS1 and PS2 'digital' bc is already a possibility. They just need to enable the feature. Many PS2 digital games have even been given trophies but at their core they are still the PS2 version, just running through specific emulation on the PS4 (and soon PS5). Disc based BC may be a bit harder as I believe theere is no CD diode on the optical drive of the PS4 (and subsequent PS5) so no CD media support. That eliminates 100% of the PS1 library and about 30% of the PS2 library.

PS3 discs would be supported if Sony were to add in a Zen compatible version of RPCS3 to their system. Then it would open the door for much more BC titles (both disc and digital). Maybe even get the emulation to utilize some of the SPU of the Tempest processor.

Shane Kim1672d ago (Edited 1672d ago )

Ps4 had no ps3 bc yet it's the most sold console. So much that MS haven't even showed figures for years. It's the second most sold console of all time. It's a nice feature but not one that sells consoles.

1672d ago
INMATEofARKHAM1671d ago (Edited 1671d ago )

> Call me an optimist but I don't necessarily think this is the end of the PS1, PS2, PS3 backwards compatibility dream!

I think that's an honest assessment... I doubt we'll ever see offical support, obviously, but fans of emulation will always tinker and there's not much that cannot be solved with more processing power.

(Obviously, I'm talking about PCs here and not a consoles)

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1671d ago
1672d ago
Knightofelemia1671d ago

Unless you can't read yes I meant the Cell processor and just in case you're thinking of the villain from DBZ no I did mean him even though he is one of my faves.

cell9891671d ago

I heard my name and I just couldn’t help my self lol

ApocalypseShadow1673d ago

To this day, I still wonder what games would have looked like with all 8 SPEs working together. System only allowed 7 as 1 was redundant. And, one 1 was used as well for features. Bringing it down to 6 SPEs.

Just think of Killzone or Motorstorm with all 8 SPEs running. Mouth just waters and flies open. ..Ptuh Ptuh...lol. Got mud in my mouth. *Lunatics unite!!*

Mithan1672d ago

One could also say "what would it have looked like if they had a more traditional cpu, with the same power?".

ApocalypseShadow1672d ago (Edited 1672d ago )

Traditional CPUs weren't putting out the same power. Remember? They we're hitting Moore's Law.

Only thing wrong with Cell was that Sony didn't teach PC developer's early on on how to program for it.

Funny thing about the Cell design is that today's modern chips have multiple cores. Including mobile chips. Ken K and IBM were actually correct in the direction. Just not in the execution of teaching PC developers new tricks. But they all had to learn multi core programming anyway. PC developers basically said it was too hard. Showing that they lacked advanced programming skills and needed to go back to the easy and familiar.

Now they could program easily for current gen. But things swung in the opposite direction. Gamers complained that current chips weren't powerful enough. "It's mobile chips." But hey, Sony gave ease of development. Everyone should have been happy. Now, Sony decided speed and balance while still being complex. We'll see how smart these developers are in thinking outside the HDD and old game design box.

sagapo1672d ago (Edited 1672d ago )

@Apocalypse; there’s a big difference between multicore (cell) and multiprocessor ( like today). Multicore is way more difficult to program for than a multiprocessor system. So you can’t really compare that way.
The x360 was a multi processor system; multiplatform games were easier to develop on xbox 360, so they got an edge in performance. The PS3 exclusives however showed what the cell was capable of, which was impressive to say the least, but it was hell to program for.

LucasRuinedChildhood1671d ago (Edited 1671d ago )

@Mithan @sagapo
I wouldn't bother with ApocalypseShadow. Even though you've corrected him, he will not change his opinion.

"PC developers basically said it was too hard. Showing that they lacked advanced programming skills ..."
EA: "Hey Bioware, here's Frostbite. The engine is not very well documented but you should just know how to use it anyway because you have advanced programming skills."

This is such a dumb point of view. Programming being more difficult requires more time, training and resources. He's trying to take a jab at the intelligence of "PC developers" (casual fanboyism) when he can't even pay attention to a 15 minute video. If multicore and multiprocessor systems were essentially the same, then emulating the PS3 wouldn't be as hard as it is. These developers who "lacked advanced programming skills" are to ones who made PS3 games so maybe they know something.

"Now they could program easily for current gen. But things swung in the opposite direction. Gamers complained that current chips weren't powerful enough."
Not what happened. The PS4 being easy to develop for is because of the x86 architecture. The CPU being underpowered is not the reason that it was easy to develop for (if anything, it's the opposite - it would have created more limitations and required more optimization). It was just a financial decision to keep the cost low.

"Now, Sony decided speed and balance while still being complex. We'll see how smart these developers are in thinking outside the HDD and old game design box." The PS5 is easier to do develop for than the PS4. What is this guy even talking about?

RedDevils1671d ago

I want Motorstorm on PS5 now damn it!

Cernunnos1671d ago (Edited 1671d ago )

Mostly the same, but possibly more stable frame rates. The PS3 was quite majorly bottlenecked by having very little RAM and the GPU was not the greatest.

no_more_heroes1672d ago

Because the Cell processor was a monster in all the bad ways as well as the good.

excaliburps1672d ago

Kutaragai is the one who pushed for it, no?

IanTH1672d ago

100%. I was going to add in a pithy "because of Kutaragi" in the comments because, yea, it's the Cell that's the problem..but it was a problem because of Ken lol.

PS3, if executed only on his vision, wouldn't have even had any traditional GPU at all! The Nvidia GPU got thrown in practically last minute due to (plentiful) feedback, and I just wonder if the PS3 only had SPUs to work with, how much more would the PS3 have struggled, and how would that have impacted visuals? Quite a complicated mashup, the PS3 ended up being lol.

Terry_B1672d ago

Well, we have 2020 and the first Xbox is still not emulated.

MadLad1672d ago

No real reason for it. The original Xbox was basically a PC.

Most of the games had were also on PC. It had its exclusives, but the people who work on these projects usually aim for platforms where a lot of the titles could only be had through emulation.

FreeckyCake1672d ago

Otogi, Ninja Gaiden Black, Dino Crisis, Blinx, Conquer bad fur day reloaded, Crimson Sea 1, Jet Set Radio Future and the list go on. There's a lot of reasons why OGX emulation must be stable in the near future.

MadLad1672d ago

That's still just a handful. It's a lot different than the hundreds had on the earlier Playstation/Nintendo console. Both of which have multiple, high quality emulators available by comparison.

RedDevils1671d ago

The only game I want from 360 is probably Blue dragon, everything on Xbox has no interest or a waste of time when it also on PC.

Show all comments (62)
130°

Why Dark Souls 2 Deserves a Second Chance in 2025

As difficult and frustrating as it is, people should consider reliving the Dark Souls 2 experience, especially because of what's coming to the game.

Read Full Story >>
gamerant.com
PrimeVinister1d 10h ago

Many of those who hate Dark Souls II hate it because it's not Dark Souls. The same people love Dark Souls III because it isn't Dark Souls II.

And so many of the issues at the centre of common complaints about DS2 are present in DS3 and sometimes even DS1. The hatred and bile spewed over this perfectly decent game is ludicrous.

CrimsonWing691d 9h ago

I don’t think it’s a terrible game, but like a movie sequel by a different director, for me, it does NOT capture any of the “magic” felt from the Miyazaki entries. Boss battles don’t feel epic, environments don’t have the same sense of awe, the enemy variety isn’t particularly interesting, the art direction just feels bland, about the only thing I can give it praise for is some of the music.

Now, again, this is only how I feel about it, so I’m not trying to invalidate his you feel about the game, but it is the worst entry in the series due to those factors and it’s the least re-visited entry, for me.

Is it decent as a game on its own? Sure. But in comparison to the Miyazaki entries, it does not stack up and I believe that’s where many were disappointed with it.

PrimeVinister1d 6h ago

Completely fair. I cannot disagree either, mate.

MrWood1d 8h ago (Edited 1d 8h ago )

You can also play it in VR flawlessly on PC & controller with the LukeRoss mod so… another reason to jump back in with extra immersion.

jznrpg1d 7h ago

It’s not a bad game it’s just not as good as the others

Shadow Man19h ago

The controls felt very clunky to me, I tried playing it after beating Darksouls 3 and it didn’t feel fluid, obviously the hit detection is less superior for been an older game.

Show all comments (13)
80°

15 Years Ago, Skate 3 Marked the End of an Era

Today marks the 15th birthday of Skate 3, a truly special entry in EA's seminal skateboarding trilogy, and the last true AAA skateboarding game.

Read Full Story >>
gamerant.com
Abear2122h ago

Best skateboarding game ever made

Yi-Long1d ago

Agreed. Skate 3, Def Jam FFNY, Black, Burnout 3, NBA Street v3, TimeSplitters FP, SSX3, Mirror’s Edge, etc etc. Fantastic era, and after that EA just dropped off completely.

90°

How Sony Fixed Their PS3 Launch Mistakes

This is the story of how the creators of the all-time best selling console almost crippled its own successor’s early life.

Read Full Story >>
culturedvultures.com
ABizzel12d ago

They retired Ken Kutaragi, moved away from overly expensive custom hardware, and went with more traditional hardware available to the market and listened to developer needs.

Profchaos1d 3h ago

It's true but also PlayStation publicly came out and stated third party wasn't important to them.

ironic that what worked for them the previous generation caused them significant pain in the subsequent one.

The PS2 was actually a significant challenge to develop for far worse than the PS1 ever was but the competition at the time was struggling so much they couldn't make up the ground Dreamcast had a stigma of being a last gen console by the time the PS2 came around and looked inferior compared to games like grab Turismo 3, the GameCube and Xbox were still a ways away and PlayStation had the reputation as being the place to play it was a perfect storm for them and the GTA games not coming to Dreamcast and Sony's embrace really helped.

Third party basically drove PlayStation yi success over more capable consoles Xbox may have looked better at the time but it didn't have GTA 3, vc, Sa or the stories games the mainline entries didn't hit the Xbox until many years after being on PlayStation.

Then the PS3 with it's cell architecture ramped it up again and just hurt Devs they didn't focus on the GPU as much as they should have and they didn't realise their deals they made with IBM could have resulted in the cell architecture being shared with Microsoft which it was and it did help them develop the 360

But really the 90s and 2000s were a wild time for game consoles now it's a little boring it's all off the shelf components and everything is mostly the same

gunnerforlife1d 5h ago

After losing so many 3rd party exclusives, they buckled down and concentrated on amazing first party games! God of war 3, Killzone 2, resistance, uncharted, the last of us, MgS4, little big planet, demon souls and so many more games!! They won the gamers back by playing smart! Even though the media and all big gaming websites from ign, gamespot, kotaku etc were all against it!! I had fun with ps2, but it's ps3 where I really grew up and had the time of my life.

BlackCountryBob19h ago

It’s weird to look back on how even today the games media narrative was stuck in 2006 to say it was overpriced and had no games which was outsold by 360 (all incorrect).

In many ways, it’s similar to how the Xbox One was never really able to move past the launch even though after a year or so it was an entirely different proposition (but Microsoft didn’t do nearly as good a job as Sony did to recover IMO).

gunnerforlife2h ago

I'm glad it received the hate from western media! It humbled them quite a lot and forced them to buckle down and concentrate where it mattered most! Games games games!! And they learned a lot from their mistakes with ps3 and they made one of the greatest consoles ever in ps4!!

So true! Where Sony realised their mistakes and corrected everything, MS were either too arrogant to change course or just didn't have the tools/capabilities to correct course and get back to basics! Games games games! Which is sad because with no rival, Sony this generation has stagnated a lot!! This generation is a write off in my books!!!

OhReginald15h ago

I was committed to that whole generation. What turned Ps3 around from being a failure to a success was in 2009 with the releases of the first ps3 slim model with a cheaper price tag, the kevin butler marketing campaign, and a ton of 1st party AAA games that were critically acclaimed and loved by the fans like Uncharted 2 (this was a bigger deal than the first game), Killzone 2 (91 on metacritic), inFamous, LittleBigPlanet (a serious threat to mario at the time), Demon's Souls( it was very niche but the word of mouth and gamespots goty award helped it and helped ps3). The big game everyone that bought a ps3 was waiting for was mgs4 in 2008 and GT5 in 2010. Anyways I think the ps3 was way ahead of its time with the games I mentioned above and breakout hits like the last of us.