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NVIDIA's RTX 3000 cards make counting teraflops pointless

engadget writes: "Teraflops have been a popular way to measure "graphical power" for years. The term refers to the number of calculations a GPU can perform, but while it’s been on spec sheets forever, more recently the teraflop has gone mainstream, appearing in marketing messages found in the launch of consoles like the Xbox Series X. With GPU core counts reaching five figures, it’s nice to have a simple point of comparison. Unfortunately, teraflops have never been less useful."

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CaptainHenry916449d ago (Edited 449d ago )

"AMD’s RX 580, a 6.17-teraflop GPU from 2017, for example, performs similarly to the RX 5500, a budget 5.2-teraflop card the company launched last year."

The TF number is misleading and isn't the only thing that's important.

RazzerRedux448d ago

Ultimately, third party benchmarks across a wide variety of games is the only way accurately judge a GPU. And even then, the results are rarely consistent when comparing dissimilar architectures.

One such example from the tons of channels on youtube that provide benchmarks:
https://youtu.be/IK_Ue4d9Cp...

448d ago
Tech5448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

it's a metric system for compute power. which most functions in games use. (from vertex rendering to shaders) until games are made differently it will be a common metric system for developers to work with.
some 20 years ago some graphics cards shipped with Nurb technology (which was considered more advanced than vertex based rendering) however very few developers used Nurbs in games, so it no longer became a standard measurement for games. even to this day games use standard vertex rendering, that also includes next gen consoles.

BLizardXD448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

Sony - "we are are launching the first 2 tflops console!"

PS fans - "2 Tflops are the future!!!!!!!!"

Sony - "the future is no longer about flops!"

PS fans - "flops don't matter no more!!!!!!!!!! "

RazzerRedux448d ago

@BLizardXD

lol.....Sony never said any such thing since PS4 isn't 2 teraflops at all. It is 1.8 teraflops. And teraflops was not the metric being discussed back then. It was resolution and frame rate. Actual visual differences. Not theoretical numbers.

It was Microsoft who really started pushing the teraflop number with their marketing of the Xbox One X. So that little drama you just dreamed up is pure fiction.

notachance447d ago

@blizard it's phil who mainstream'ed the term tflop when he marketed xb1x you dumbass

after he failed spectacularly with cloud power I might add, LMAO

dantesparda447d ago

@ BLizardXD
MS - "we are are launching a 1.31 tflops console!"

MS fans - "Tflops dont matter, the cloud and DX12 and Kinect are the future!!!!!!!!"

MS - "the future is 12 Tflops!"

MS fans - "12 Tflops are the future!!!!!!!!!!"

CaptainObvious878447d ago

@blizardxd

It amazes me.... it absolutely amazes me how someone can see phil the false prophet (even ms fans can admit he's not the messiah anymore and never was), talk up tflops and 'most powerful console' to no end for the entire first half of this year, and yet you come out and say sONy oNLy hAs tFLoPs hUUUrr DuuurrrRRrrR.

I'm just..... I can't even....

All fanboys are annoying, but ms die hards are in a super league all on their own.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 447d ago
IGiveHugs2NakedWomen448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

I've always tried to explain to people who keep throwing around GPU teraflops like it's the only part of the machine the GPU is attached to. Most of the people who believe that GPU teraflops define the overall performance of the machine don't even understand how GPU teraflops are calculated. Some of them even believe that this measurement is like an odometer on a car. Some believe that teraflops go up and down when dealing with GPUs that use variable clocks. I've had countless arguments with people while trying to explain that teraflops is a calculation like 2+2=4 and it doesn't change because you want it to. Ahhh the internet. What can you say?

DJStotty448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

The Teraflop number is a system's average "theoretical" performance figure, and does not go down or up. It is used to display the performance of a processor/GPU or system as a whole.

It is calculated on how many floating operations a processor/GPU can perform in a second (on average), hence the name "Tera". (Trillion floating operations per second).

So the Series X GPU has a "average" performance of 12 trillion flops per second.
PS5 has a "average" performance of 10.28 trillion flops per second.

The more "flops" a GPU has, equates to being able to process the data faster.

rainslacker448d ago

@DJ

The number isnt an average, it's the peak theoretical limit that the processor or system in question can achieve.

It's entirely possible to have a high TF GPU, but never have it achieve that theoretical peak. Its excessively rare that any game or program will ever make a processor or system max out the system for a sustained amount of time outside of non-realtime rendering. The higher the number though, the more the system can do under normal conditions.

GPU TF ratings are calculated based in cores, calc units, and speed rating.

SullysCigar448d ago

"The TF number is misleading and isn't the only thing that's important."

It's VERY important if it's all that you've got..

Bathyj448d ago

A Mack truck with 600 horsepower or a Ferrari with 450?

Which would you take in a race?

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

Exactly.

And for those you who believe teraflops can change based on variations in GPU clock, think of horsepower. Does it change when you're driving at 30 mph vs 80 mph?

NO.

The only thing that does change is the amount of power being used at any given moment, not the total teraflops/horsepower.

Bathyj448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

. Sorry wrong post

BrettAwesome448d ago

@Igivehugs
Well acktyually...hp and torque are measured at specific rpm. That's referred to as the power band. So it's really not that good a comparison

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen447d ago (Edited 447d ago )

@Brett

If you're driving a 350 hp car at 40 mph, how many horsepower are you using?

350 hp

If a 10 TF GPU has a 10% reduction in power consumption for 5 milliseconds how many teraflops are you using?

That's right... 10 Teraflops.

The horsepower is always there waiting to be used at any given moment. If variations in horsepower was actually a thing there would be a horsepower gauge instead of an RPM gauge.

The same principle applies to teraflops. All the cores, compute units, and maximum clock speed are still the same even if a GPU with a variable clock has a 10% reduction in power consumption for 10 milliseconds. Teraflops is a measurement, not a thermometer or a gauge. It is a fixed number that measures MAXIMUM THEORETICAL PERFORMANCE.

Teraflops doesn't measure 5% drops in power consumption
Teraflops doesn't measure 10% drops in power consumption
Teraflops doesn't measure reductions or variations in clock speeds

That is the one thing that people who argue over teraflops on the internet continue to not fully understand simply because they have no interest in understanding what a teraflop is.

Software_Lover447d ago

Which would you take to carry a large load?

Its all relative to the job.

Knushwood Butt447d ago

Brett is right about the powerband and that HP isn't the only factor to measure performance.

Mack Truck is very heavy...

My car is fast, but has low torque below 3500 rpm.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 447d ago
Donnie81448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

When comparing nvidia cards to amd yeah your right. In general before rdna2 nvidia always gets more out of their chips and I’d imagine it’s the same now. But comparing two amd cards like in the series x and the ps5 you can treat them as an apples to apples comparison. Well except the series x is a real rdna2 chipset and the ps5 isn’t .so no 40 to 60 % extra power per tflop for the ps5

RazzerRedux448d ago

"Well except the series x is a real rdna2 chipset and the ps5 isn’t .so no 40 to 60 % extra power per tflop for the ps5"

lol....you keep telling yourself that.

BrettAwesome448d ago

Except none are, since both are based on RDNA2 but are customized. You understand? Does that compute? Dumb fuckwit

Donnie81447d ago

RazzerRedux
Let me get this right I need to keep telling myself a gpu with less features and power is gonna get outperformed? I can tell you it will by a good measure. Sony engineer comes out and admits the ps5 is missing rdna2 features the series x has. This is a fact. Amd confirms the series x has the full rdna2 feature set this is confirmed . But am I to expect that magically the ps5 is gonna perform up to par?

mark3214uk448d ago

don't tell the xbox fanboys, that little tf extra is the only secret sauce they have at the min

MecheSlays447d ago

Not when comparing 2 cards of the same exact chip architecture. You can compare a 2tflop rdna2 card to a 10tflop rdna 2 card whereas you can't compare those cards to an nvidia card at 2 and 10flops.

n1kki6447d ago

The problem is most websites and gamers get held up on a single number. I suppose this is due to review scores. But when it comes to hardware performance a single number cannot tell the entire story. There are to many dependencies.

warriorcase447d ago

Exactly. Basically it does look good for marketing though.

yeahokwhatever447d ago

vega64 does 12.7 tflops. its not as fast as the 5700xt, which has what, like 8?

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purple101449d ago

Does this mean a 10 teraflop PlayStation 5 all perform exactly the same as a 12 something teraflop Xbox?

449d ago Replies(1)
Destiny1080448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

xbox will have some advantages & playstation will have some advantages

Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart is already taking advantage of the overwhelming speed of the PS5 SSD including haptic feedback/adaptive triggers and 3D sound

ShawnardAgain448d ago

The new Avengers game has you going through rifts into other areas too. Sooooooo yahhhhhh....

BrettAwesome448d ago

#'ShynerdAgain
"Yahhhhh" what the fuck are you, like a donkey or some shit?

yeahokwhatever447d ago

hey buzz, when you hear the ps5 with a decent headset you'll eat your words.

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Neonridr448d ago

No, more than likely not because they are from the same gen of cards with similar architecture and feature sets. This is talking about comparing something older to something newer.

kryteris448d ago

pretty sure 3rd party will suffer on the ps5 but hey we got great audio right?

Rude-ro448d ago

🤔
When?
The weakest Xbox is your developing target for Microsoft games until 2022 at least.
You just like counting pixels that much on 10+ year old game engines?

r2oB448d ago

Black Ops is a 3rd party game shown playing on a PS5 and didn’t look like it was suffering. In fact it looked better than anything shown playing on a Series X, oh wait...

BrettAwesome448d ago

Pretty sure the only thing that suffers is your sore little asshole

IGiveHugs2NakedWomen448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

If you actually understand the fact that the GPU is the source of that 10 or 12 teraflop number, then you'll begin to understand that the performance of the entire APU hasn't been taken into account. For console gamers, teraflops is just a buzzword for silly arguments and most of the people engaged in those arguments don't even know what a teraflops actually is or how it's calculated.

yeahokwhatever447d ago

I'm more of a fan of the old million polys per second meter from the ps2 days. that seemed more useful.

OB1Biker447d ago

I wonder if people are even aware that's only the GPU they are talking about.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 447d ago
448d ago Replies(1)
Vits448d ago (Edited 448d ago )

Teraflops numbers lose meaning when you are comparing different architecture. That has always been the case.So comparing TF between the RTX 3000 series and the new consoles is indeed quite useless.

That said comparisons between the PS5 and XSXs' GPUS. Do have much more ground to stand on. Even though they are not the be all and end all of real world performance.

PsVitaBuzz448d ago

You should not have said nothing. Your highlighting less power for the ps5. I can guarantee that although you are right you will get dislikes...but you forgot to mention the ps5 has 3d sound!

Atticus_finch448d ago

You forgot to mention PlayStation 5 will have the best looking games 😘

Vits448d ago

Pretty much. But at this point this is already part of the course for this place, so it's hard to care. Plus is sort of funny to behold.

ocelot07447d ago

@Atticus_finch

Thank god you said best looking games and not has exclusive games. We all know every single playstation game is coming to pc now.

We all read it on the internet last week. Can't wait to play last of us 2 in 8k 120fps. Or spider man or Bloodborne or Ghost or demons souls. There all coming to pc and that is 100% FACT!

/s