Is Halo Infinite Better Off Abandoning Current Generation Hardware?

With Digital Foundry’s Jon Linneman expressing the concern he’s heard from developers, it seems that leaving the Xbox One behind might be the best thing for Halo Infinite.

[ziggurcat]

Not just Halo: Infinite.

[chrisx]

It's part of the reasons halo infinite looks as bad as it did during that poor presentation. But with MS you never know,it could still have looked that bad if it was next gen only because make no mistake if it wasn't for the global uproar, halo infinite would have released this year.

[Noskypeno]

Most of it just comes down to laziness from the devs, even tho 343 produced Halo 4 which looked pretty good for its time. Crossgen and weaker hardware didnt limit the Crysis trilogy or the Metro trilogy or MGS5 from becoming graphically great games.

[imtiyaz6]

@Noskypeno I never knew MGSV came out on the PS3. I just saw the ps3 and PS4 comparison and I’m flabbergasted. That ps3 was one helluva machine.

[RpgSama]

Didn't Alex Battaglia also from DF make a full video "analysis" (talking crap out of his ass) defending Halo Infinite from looking like that using the excuse that it was the wrong time of the day and the shadows from the mountains BS? So now that it's been delayed it was the Xbox One holding it back, not the 3pm shadow?.

[morganfell]

@RpgSama,

I mentioned this the other day but it is time for DF to go. They lack the expertise, the foresight, and have always been devoid of even a shred of objectivity or integrity. It is questionable if they should be replaced or simply pushed off to the side. It can be wonderful to know what is occurring in a scene but far too often the technical nature of a game is given the weight that should be awarded to one simple factor. How does an analyzed moment impact you as a player? As I mentioned here previously the vast majority of players have no clue as to a title's resolution until you tell them. Suddenly it matters and does so to the extent it becomes a point of contention...as if it really is of high importance when it is in reality far from it.

[Bigman4k]

didnt look that bad to me

[Unspoken]

Well when you have console kiddies crying about optimization while requiring massive frame rate hikes, this is what you get. Leave it up to PC to push the envelope when it comes to graphics and the ability to upgrade and optimize further over time. Then you can start at 30 fps and end up at 120+ fps.

Even though lately I'm starting to see the "optimization" crying starting to creep over to PC land as well. You can't have it both ways.

[esherwood]

Yeah I don’t get it, looked good to me too

[notachance]

it was supposed to release for current gen just like TLoU 2 and Tsushima, that's what they get for trying to pad their launch window by forcefully making it next-gen

[SamPao]

really... nobody would have had a problem with it releasing for this gen, WHY did they think thats a great idea??....

[AuraAbjure]

They should have released it in good shape last fall. Halo 4 was released two years after Halo:Reach for crying out loud and that was my favorite Halo game.

[1Victor]

@ SanPao it worked on the previous 2 generations why change it 🤷🏿🤦
27999;

[rainslacker]

But it didnt even look up to par with a current gen title. Even from within MS own studios, or 343's last outing it looked pretty bad.

[RosweeSon]

Agreed

[RazzerRedux]

I can't see them breaking their commitment to Xbox One with Halo: Infinite, but after that it is time to cut the cord. Even then it will difficult as they will rightfully be attacked for making false promises regarding the support for Xbox One for 1 to 2 years.

[ziggurcat]

It's a total catch-22 situation they're in right now, I think.

[Jin_Sakai]

“With Digital Foundry’s Jon Linneman expressing the concern he’s heard from developers, it seems that leaving the Xbox One behind might be the best thing for Halo Infinite.”

But Phil said:

“Phil Spencer: Xbox Series X Being 'Held Back' Is A Meme Created By Console War Obsessives”

https://www.purexbox.com/ne...

[Scissorman82]

We've also been promised the most powerful console and look how that's turning out...

[Godmars290]

And you're getting "the most powerful console". Problem is its potential's not actually being utilized. Wont actually be shown till years later, if then.

[hectorius]

.

[The Wood]

With Phil it's a show me don't tell me. He talks way too much.

[notachance]

I wouldn't really hold onto his word.
He said few years ago that MS will never show games early ever again (in response to CD3 huge delay), yet a few months later they announced Halo: Infinite which haven't even released until now.

it's all corporate response with that dude, which can take a sudden 180 depending on the situation

[rainslacker]

Phil will latch onto whatever is a current talking point and say what he thinks people want to hear. It doesnt matter how marginal that group of people is expressing criticism. Sony was being accused of showing things too early, despite them doing what was routine for the whole industry in terms if marketing, so spencer decided to play the good guy like he always does. Spencer is good at making promises, he just isnt good at setting expectations...which is why xbox fan boys keep lowering theirs to accommodate his incompetence.

[TheKingKratos]

He should be fired or just leave

[isarai]

Problem is it's so far in development, having to run on the XBO has already shaped how it's designed. So unless they want to redesign majority if the game it's not really going to do much good to do so now.

[AuraAbjure]

Look at how The Legend of Zelda: Breathe of the Wild turned out. They developed it for the Wii U and said that they made a last minute decision to have it released for their new more powerful Switch console. And how did version running on more powerful look? Exactly the same. They didn't bother changing shit. A tad higher resolution textures here and there and some denser grassland. Wow. How scalable is this splipspace engine anywho?

[Charal]

It is too late now I am sure, except from redoing the game completely which will not be the case in my opinion.

I am still very surprised that game journalists needed to see Infinite to challenge the « no hold back » lie from MS.
Anyone who knows a little how games are made, especially at DF, should have seen this coming from the beginning.

[talocaca]

Yes.

(Unless it's stream only on Xbox One).

[TheColbertinator]

I say out with the old and in with the new. Halo Infinite would have looked ten times better closer to launch.

[garos82]

of course. That is a completely dumb question. Ditch the xbox one and make Halo the best it can be by taking advantage of the beastly series x

[Bathyj]

They should, but they won't. They need Xbox One to prop up their numbers because Series X numbers ain't gonna be great.

And that's why I call BS when Microsoft claims they don't care if you buy their console because trust me, when Xbox One owners get sick of 10 year old hardware and decide Series X is not worth the upgrade and move to PS5 where all the good games are, and drop gamepass then yes they will very much care.

They are either very short sighted or they are liars.

[Sunny_D]

I'd also argue they're in too deep at this point. The amount of people they would piss off if they were to cancel it for the Xbox One would bring them huge negative PR. I figure advertising a game coming out for your platform for years only to cancel it wouldn't look too good.

[Bathyj]

It wouldn't look good but it's not like it would be the first time they've done it.

[morganfell]

HALO Infinite is designed (so they say) as a 10 yea project. I do not see new levels, experiences, stories, what have you being introduced on the Xbox One 5 years from now. At a certain point Infinite fans will be forced to move to he next generation if they want to continue the experience. My money is on the date that MS announces a mid gen upgrade...if they do an upgrade. Personally if things become really rocky I can see them backing away from hardware completely and it is at that instance you will see Xbox as a service on a host of other, including competitive platforms.

[GoTNeWs4Ya]

I don't completely disagree with you, BUT I do disagree that its going to hurt them as badly as you think it will..

Because gamepass is an amazing deal, one that.. no matter how poorly the series x sells, there is almost no reason to stop subscribing to its services.. pretty soon any subscriber will be able to stream all titles to any screen that has the app deployed upon it.. which means series x games will be streamed via the cloud without needing the series x.. and at that point the gamepass becomes more important than any of the consoles that microsoft has.. plus the 3rd party games it is xconstantly adding to its repertoire.. it makes it silly to ever stop subscribing to its services and will probably result in the opposite of what you're predicting... infact I think the subscribers will increase, rather than decrease, especially if cloud gaming really takes off and works as well as they are hoping.. it will truly be one for the ages.. and people would be foolish to ignore the ability to get access to new triple a exclusives each year and hundreds of other games added in for such a low price point.. and if it eliminates the need for a system too.. then thats even better!

[ApocalypseShadow]

Whole lot of what ifs depending on Apple and Google saying yes.

Also dependent on if 3rd parties don't make their own streaming apps and services in the future as the internet speeds up without having to go to Microsoft and game pass.

There's always a reason to stop subscribing. Not the games you want to play, cost goes up, streaming not good enough in your area, etc.

But hey. Rainbows and unicorns. As for Halo, it's stuck in neutral and already ran out of gas. They need to drop current gen and start over.

[rainslacker]

They need xbox for game pass right now. PC has plenty of content, but every publisher can do their own thing on pc without much effort. PC is probably going to be like the tv streaming stuff is now, with everyone having their own thing, and all these shows being all over the place, leaving a lot of content going without notice. Those with more prolific portfolios are going to get ahead, while others are going to fail or have to license to these other services, which will probably end up being like it is on the tv services now where you get all these exclusive content deals all over the place, and after a few months, people run through all the content they care about.

A console gamer is the best market for these kinds of things right now, but it also means cannibalizing new game sales...even for new games, which is going to potentially reduce game sales, which means publishers start asking if it's worth publishing on the console.

MS has to balance these things to keep the negative outcome from happening. It's not an issue now since the sub numbers are too low of a percentage to matter.

In the end though, GP, or services like it, are geared more for ongoing content releases. GaaS, and while it wont be the only thing on there, it ends up just being a paywall to F2P or mid-tier indie games, most of which people wouldn't look twice at. Some of that is already being evidenced as it is now

Over the long term, the one that has the dominate service will be the winner of whatever they're doing. That's what MS is trying to establish now, and theyll take major losses now for the really long term gain, which could amount to a lot of money.

[AuraAbjure]

They should have released it (in good shape) last fall and simply released a Series X enhanced version this fall.

[Stanjara]

Yeah, last fall this game was a stencil sketch on a napkin.

[AuraAbjure]

Except for the fact they officially stated they were going to release the game last fall before reconsidering after receiving criticism. But sure, we'll go with your napkin remark.

[Stanjara]

What last fall release? Maybe I'm off but last year they were losing leads.
Creative director left. They had to rewrite a lot and they showed that Halo 1 arm9r and going back OG.

It's like Mass E Andromeda...you know they made that game in 18 months?

[RosweeSon]

Yes but at this stage prob too late to fully benefit from it

[sprinterboy]

MS biggest problem is how many of those 40m xbox fans are they gonna lose to playstation, cause as it stands even the hardcore xbox gamer is calling them out?
Doesn't bode well for launch of the series X/S.
What would be even more damaging for MS is the series S sells better (still low sales numbers) compared to abysmal series X sales.
Cause as it stands nobody is gonna buy a series X until at least 2 years and by then the console war would have already been won by playstation and nintendo yet again leaving xbox on 3rd place picking up minimal gamepass subs.

[Bathyj]

I just saw a Kidsoove video, he was almost crying for gameplay. I even felt sorry for him.

With regards to Series S, Microsoft are in a tough position. They've spent so much effort convincing us that a 1.9 TFlop difference is going to make a huge difference. And now they're going to try and convince us a 4 TFlop series S can hang with a 10 TFlop PS5.

What's more even after Xbox One finally gets dropped in 2 years, Xbox games will always be tied to the series S. So in other words every Xbox game this Gen even 8 years from now will have to be designed to run on the lowest common denominator the 4 TFlop series S.

[sprinterboy]

Even worse for MS is I believe Sony will price the ps5 digital close to the series S, making it pointless to even buy a series S.
Series S will be discontinued within 2 years imo.
Sony will make a big loss on the digital knowing they'll get it bk with software, a extra duelshock and gamers buying the camera and 3d headset.

[pecorre]

No! It'S aNti-cOnSUmmErS!!

/S

[Imortus_san]

The best thing is to deliver Halo to another company, and move 343i to other games.

[aaronaton]

I said this 1 week before the Halo gameplay trailer:

https://n4g.com/news/236025...

"Not only does it need to look great, but i needs to look 'not held back' by the simultaneous release of the Xbox One version. I just don't see how 343 can design the game from the ground up with the SSD in mind.
IMO the most likely thing will be that Halo: infinite will essentially be a current gen looking game, but can be played at higher res and fps on the series X. Disappointing to say the least."

It was met with 16 dislikes and people claiming i was talking out of my arse.

Funny.

[Saijahn]

Anyone who agrees that that’s the case but see current gen still being supported by other devs just lacks common sense at this point.

Cross gen titles were supposed to hold back next gen consoles...nearly every major third party dev is putting out a cross gen title at the lunch of next gen.

So clearly the old hardware isn’t the problem as far as a game being scaled down to it.

I’m still excited for Halo, but it’s clear they spent more time developing the engine than putting polish on the game. I’m cool with the art style, but the lack of textures and key features like Raytracing at launch was just a no go.

We kill these companies when all they show is some trailer, and then kill them when they show gameplay because it’s not up to our expectations.

The gaming community is a weird lot at times.

[Bathyj]

We kill them when they yell most powerful console for a year, spend $500m and 5 years on their flagship title and then it looks like arse.

The worst thing is they would have released it this way if gamers hadn't spoken up. They're so dishonest. I don't see why anyone still supports them.

[ZwVw]

Cross Gen development isn't the issue here. Otherwise, Infinite (presumably running on a high end pc) wouldn't be looking worse than Halo 5 on XB1 X. Getting tired of this worn out excuse.

Games such as MGSV, Rise of the Tomb Raider, RE Revelations 2 and Wolfenstein The New Order were all cross gen titles which were all visually impressive on the 7th Gen. With their then Next Gen counterparts not being held back by the older hardware.

The main issue with Infinite falls within 343's mismanagement. Too much reliance on temp outsourcing and things such as having core staff relegated to working on Halo MCC for PC, when Infinite should be the team's first and main priority.

[galmi]

Been saying that, almost all games at the beginning of a console gen are cross gen. For halo infinite it just shows that there is a bigger issue

[Nodoze]

1000% YES!!!!

[esemce]

Tech wise yes, sales wise no.

[andron]

Probably, but ms can't afford to abandon the current gen players. So...

[Vertigo15]

Maybe they should just delay the xbox one version and get the series x one to look better than downgrade xbox one players.

[thesoftware730]

I think they should release for both, I was under the impression that PS5 and Series X and most modern game engines were scaleable. I mean one of the big things MS talks about is the systems being able to tell what hardware your playing on and adjust the game accordingly.

I dont know how difficult it is to have a game being able to do that, but from og Xbox one and the X seem to handle it just fine. How much Dev work is required I dont know, but MS needs to allocate the resources to make that happen. They have up-talked eco-system and Xbox family to much for this game to skip anything.

[secrettalkshowhost]

No because it's too late: its already built for those systems. Also the people complaining about the graphics don't mentally understand what they want; their thought process consists mostly of "oh there's less stuff on screen so its bad graphics." There's none of the fake AO and scratches on the guns, which is likely intentional because they keep saying they want it to look more like the original halo (which had a much cleaner look).

The complaints about some of the models like the brutes are basically just complaints about Halo's art style: Halo is a really generic, bland, kind of dumb game with uninspired character/environment/weapon/s hip designs. The human equipment is kind of just generic sci-fi stuff that looks like the movie Aliens, the covenant are just dumb generic Blizzard style monsters. The brutes are space gorillas: like that's what they are: that's what the story always said they where. What do you expect? Its a space gorilla, its a dorky idea for an alien. The brute models in the older games where so low poly and so covered in so much random armor that they didn't really read as what as what they are. Halo infinite is going for a simpler, cleaner look so there's less stuff on screen to blur the larger picture of what the art actually is. So laypeople people who are used to everything being a noisy coral reef of endless detail and grime are gonna react poorly.

Halo is basically a watered down, sanitized version of Bungie's Marathon series, which had a very similar premise but much more strange and creative designs for ships and weapons and creatures. There certainly weren't any dorky space gorillas in Marathon. Halo's primary contribution to video games was to make everything more dumb and simplistic for idiots, and that fanbase isn't going to react well to any attempt at cleaning up visuals; they just want lots and lots of lots of noise and stuff on screen because hurp durp ith realithic duurrrr

[Noskypeno]

The 2018 and last years trailers were also clean as well. As 343 said in their post after the complaints less noise doesnt mean less detail. We still want the environmental details from 2018 as well as the facial animations from 2019.

[DFresh]

Yes.

[BenRC01]

Its the entire last gen that needs to be left behind. Games are gonna look and perform worse on better hardware than the ps5 being hampered by that creaky old one s

[Donnie81]

Halo infinite will be great and will look fantastic it just needs more time. I thought the game looked super fun and enjoyed the art style. Most of the people crying about will never play it they are trying to use it as ammo for the console war. The same people make excuses for the ps5 struggling with 4k and it’s fake rdna2 gpu.

[Knightofelemia]

Business wise no for one Microsoft made a promise to the Halo fans that Halo Infinite was coming to XB1 you scrapping it will only piss fans off even more. Second no some people will not adopt the Series X right away so as a company you want the franchise available. To those who have not adopted to the Series X yet meaning you want to milk it as much as you can on the available platforms. If given the time 343 can make a dumbed down version that can run on the XB1 while still offering the game for the Series X. Now if 343 are rushed to the point where they half ass Infinite for the XB1 and its a buggy pile of crap and plays like crap even with patches fans will just write off the game.

[BrainSyphoned]

Halo Infinite and Xbox would be better off ditching the new hardware to focus on game pass gaas.

[Bleucrunch]

This issue with Halo should not be happening in the franchise lifecycle. Add to that its rather embarrassing that Microsoft will be releasing their next-gen console without their flagship title. WOW!!

Then we find out the whole direction of the game development wise is not being properly managed...Good Grief who is in charge over there at Microsoft?

[BlackIceJoe]

With Halo Infinite coming out in 21, the best thing to do is turn it into a Xbox Series X only game.

[nibblo]

If that is the cause of all/most of the problems then sure but I'm not convinced it is.

[Jerlemar]

I really don't understand why MS would even want Halo: Infinite to be on Xbox One.

MS has always had a weird strategy when it comes to their consoles. Do they want people to purchase their newest console or not?

[anast]

We still have no idea what it looks like with console hardware, I would probably get to the bottom of that before moving on to other things.

[FlavorLav01]

Of course it is, but they won’t do it. That would mean leaving out too many devices for MS’ subscription goals and doing something to actually push the gaming experience forward. That would be asking too much from MS since mid 360 generation IMO

[Fraggle1987]

Yes, Yes, Yes and more Yes.