Developers are having a rather hard time scaling back cross-gen PS5 and Xbox Series X titles to the original PS4 and Xbox One hardware.
But Phil said it was just sliders like on PC. You’re telling me all the people saying it’s more like developing two separate games were correct all along? /s
Developing for multiple PCs is also more difficult... more machines time and difficulty increases
That’s actually not how PC’s work.
Well the thing for PC is that you can't blame the devs much if you're low-spec PC gamer. If it runs crap, then upgrade. Or deal with low frames. Plain and simple. But for consoles, things are a bit different. If the devs are assuring a previous gen (or current-gen, depends how you read) release of a game, they have to make sure its a solid port with proper features, because that release of the game'll be scrutinized separately (be it by Digital Foundry and IGN to all the way by individual gamers)
Yup, those people who keeps bragging how smooth their experience with pc, never owned a low-mid range range pc. They keep on saying oh you could match consoles with $500 pc, blablabla when in reality they have no idea how it feels to own a mid range pc and play games full of bugs.
@tontontam0 I can see your point. However, You are talking about bottom of the barrel PC's. Like people with a GT 710. A $500-$600 modern PC. Will be able to game at 1080p 60 these days. You may get the odd buggy mess game where you may have to drop down to 900p to maintain 60fps. Like a few weeks ago a friend of mine said I want to experience PC gaming on a £500 budget and was willing to go second hand if he needed. I managed to build him a system using all brand new parts which included a RX 580, Ryzen 3100, 8GB DDR4, 240GB SSD, 1TB HDD, be quiet PSU, for less than £460. Sure it won't do 4K. It can do 1080p on the big games as the highest settings and even 1440p at medium with the minimum of 60FPS. That is a solid budge system for what is probably going to be the price of a PS5. I even managed to get a refubed Dell pc which had a intel 3470 CPU and 4GB RAM. Slapped in a second hand 1050 ti and a extra 4gb ram. For less than £200 a decent budget gaming PC that can do 900p/1080p 60FPS gaming.
@ocelot What fps are they getting on the newest games with that pc at 1080p ? Because there is no way they are hitting higher than 40 fps on assassin's creed odyssey on highest settings with that pc, the pc i made for my son has a 1660 ti in it with 16gb of 3600 mhz ddr4 ram and an amd 3300x cpu which can only just hit 60 fps on that game on high settings let alone highest. There are a fair few games he plays at 1080p that can't get 60 or higher fps on the highest settings, unless they are older games like gta v.
Microsofts games are going to be on series X, Xbox One and PC. Not to mention whatever difficulties getting it to run on Xcloud will present. PlayStation have a pure vision. Make the best game you can for PS5. MS are spliting their focus and they are less talented to begin with. They are making things harder than they have to be and I think this is actually anti consumer for anyone buying a series X because they will not be getting the quality they deserve.
Haha, I thought that exact thing with all the "anti consumer" cries. It is anti consumer to deliver a low quality product for the sake of awider consumer pool. Ideally, a company should strive to deliver the best product worth the value. I'm glad someone from DF manned up and told the truth. Crossgen is holding devs back and both their points contend against the idea that it doesn't. Battaglia's defense of "lighting" for Halo:I really made me question DF credibility for a little bit. This restored it a little. Crossgen, especially this generation, is holding development back.
It’s no surprise that their cross gen plan got dropped before it even got started.
"Crossgen, especially this generation, is holding development back." Been saying this. I'm surprised it had to take the devs to say this.
As I suggested by got shot down everytime, you can subscribe for GP or xcloud even there is an interesting game you wanna try out.
Hahaha Why would anyone think that developers would scale back games instead of adding resolution and framerate options to the PS5/Series X versions of PC/PS4/Xbox One builds? *chuckling* Phil Spencer has some of you caught up in his BS.
When Phil says something it's safer to assume it's untrue than true. Honestly far more things he says are untrue or misleading than true.
Sliders on pc only apply to graphical fidelity. These next gen consoles have stronger cpus which effect everything to do with game design; level design, ai, character complexity and number of enemys.
This is exactly it. The very game worlds devs can create on PS5 and Xbox Series X can not be scaled down to PS4 and Xbox One. Just toning down the graphics won't be enough. So if you're making a PS4 / Xbox One version, then the PS5 / Xbox Series X version is going to be gimped in terms of world design / physics / AI, etc. Which is exactly why I have been against MS not making games specifically for Xbox Series X hardware as the baseline minimum. Such a shame!
You don't say.....I never would have thunk it. Phil Spencer keeps talking, but the more he talks, the less sense he makes. He equates the console situation to pc, but the fact is that even for pc, developers give a recommended minimum spec necessary for the game to run effectively. The entire point is if that minimum spec is a weak even in 2013 when it released jaguar cpu, as it is in the xbox one and ps4, you're severely hamstrung right from the beginning of your project, and I wish you luck because you're going to need buckets of it. I wish these talking heads would stop talking and get to work.
Halo Infinite will be cancelled on Xbox One. Bookmark this page and buy me a coke in 6 months.
Absolutely but it began life as a current gen game you can tell as they use camera tricks to obscure distances and block views frequently with mountains whi h is a common trick used when working with games that really on mechanical storage like current gen and even PC It was never meant to be a showtime title for xsx it was lazy Devs that couldn't finalise a product that was meant to be a showcase title of the X1 years ago and now they have to somehow make it a flagship game on next gen because they couldn't ship on time It's five years in the making and covid has impacted them for 6 months of it which at this point is a convenient excuse. They should scrap everything start again and come back in three years instead of putting out what will be the last halo for the next ten year plan
I’m thinking the same thing. In a few months past launch, when negative PR continues for cross gen games, MS will do a 180 and stop support for the Xbox One. Then all the people who were calling Sony anti consumer will suddenly praise this move by Microsoft. It will be a repeat of Xbox One DRM and always online fiasco from 2013. I guarantee it.
Yeah the whole leave no gamer behind is going to be under a harsh spotlight in the early months of Series X. They are effectively punishing their early adopters for being early adopters. It's the complete opposite of what Sony is doing and it's wrong in my opinion. I'm not buying next gen to play last gen games. I want games that push the hardware and couldn't be done on last gen. Obviously every game is not going to be like that and it may in fact take a while for games to do that, but hamstringing themselves to tie it to the lowest common denominator is ridiculous. I hope it backfires big time and Xbox gamers revolt because it seems like at the start of every Gen Microsoft tries to push and get away with as much as they can until gamers slap them down a peg or two. I just think it's sad it's mostly Sony gamers providing the backlash because a lot of that could be simply fanboys or haters. It should be coming from Xbox gamers demanding better. They are never going to get the quality they deserve until they do, but they seem to have been bought off cheaply with an inexpensive Netflix for games. They are so easily satisfied it's no wonder this is what they get.
Hmm, I dunno about that, they seem pretty entrenched with Halo. But Phil and Microsoft flip flop on everything so it wouldn’t surprise me at all if it happens.
I'm happy to buy you a coke if it doesn't. But answer me this and bare in mind I'm not picking a fight or arguing with you just making a discussion, if Halo has a 10 year plan for content going out, do you think that includes Xbox One? Surely they will cut it off at some point? Xbox One is not going to be around in 10 years. I say cut it off now. It's not part of the Grand plan and it's crippling this game and others in the future.
That’s a fair point, but Microsoft only cares about gamepass subs. “They don’t care if you buy their console” heh. So if they can keep milking those bone subs for 10 years they’ll probably do that. I expect a lot of next gen talk will be Sony saying we sold millions of PlayStation 5’s and Microsoft saying we have millions of game pass subs and trying to act like it’s the same thing. Like when they try to compare users to actual sales.
@bathyj There is no way Microsoft could do that....they might as well give up the ghost and fold their gaming division. The real problem for them is they started development with the intention of having the game be playable on the og xbox one. The most extreme step I could see them taking is to scrap the xbox one version, break down what they have, and start to develop specifically for the series x.....but I would estimate that will take perhaps a year and a half, two years maybe? Don't know....I really don't see any vast improvements being made in what we saw in July unless they take that step, but it may be too late in the process for that. I was fully intending to buy a ps5 and series x at launch, but I've changed my plans. I'll be buying a ps5 at launch, and building out a new pc with one of the ampere cards around the time Cyberpunk launches. As someone who skipped the xbox one this gen, I'll still get gamepass to play a lot of the games I missed this past gen, such as Forza Horizon, Gears 5, Ori, etc. etc. but I really have no confidence in Microsoft and their hardware or software development at this point. Too many of their first party games are years away from seeing release, and it's nearly September and still not one game has been shown running on "the most powerful console ever created". No thank you. I'll pass.
I've called that one already lol.
Ofcourse Devs had a hard time keeping frame rates stable on base consoles on current gen games never mind cross gen. Look at outer world's as the best example and gears 5 I played them on a high end PC and on a original X1 the difference was dramatic but the version the original X1 had especially in outer world's had stutter and pop in all over the place it was obviously better than switch but it wasn't good
Aw, c'mon, it's not that difficult. Just add 5-10min ride elevators in every game. XD
They forgot to lock it make the elevator indoor to hides the pop ins lol 5 year's in development 500 millions lol 5 years ago they could had buy 50% of unreal with those 500
Didn't think it would be. Halo Infinite is an Xbox One game, that'll be getting some enhancements for the Series X. It's not the huge system seller we were led to believe it would be.
PS5 already won and next gen haven't started yet
Same thing happened in 2013. What a shame, was hoping Microsoft could put up a fight this round.
Most of us have been saying that you can't have true next generation games which would be possible on current gen. The SSD factor alone wouldn't make it possible Developers would have to create 2 different game worlds one with loading in backgrounds and one using SSD
Must be alot harder for xbox then considering u have xbox one , xbox one s , xbox one x and xbox series x
Was Sony scaling back PS5 games also for PS4, or did they just want to include PS5 in the convo, because I'm pretty sure Sony hasn't been talking about scaling games back for PS5 to fit on PS4. This was a strategy for Phil and MS, but I didn't hear about Sony doing it too. Also, I like that tweet from John Linneman about this STUPID argument that exclusives are anti-consumer. At least not everyone in the industry has lost their damn minds.
Wow... this whole article has nothing to do with the PS5. It was born from Halos poor showing. Don’t make it out to be a widespread issue when you’ve basically only had one disappointing account. If person A is on a Minimum requirements game on PC and another players system allows him to go ultra on everything they can still play together. Nothing’s getting held back. Sliders like Phil said. This was a case of poor time management of resources, a poor game engine that scales from the “sliders” terribly, or a number of other things. Like many have said, Miles Morales was most likely born on PS4. Halo was supposed to not be held back at ALL according to Phil and others. Now that that didn’t pan out it’s hard for everyone... with out seeing what “everyone” has done. I could have sworn I heard Halo was started from the Xbox one X and THEN scaled to Xbox One.... if true that really makes it worse.
Cut the BS there is no scaling back lol you make h gane fo lower denominator and upscale it.
Why even bother at this point when new consoles are about to release? Just saying.
I don't understand why. PC Developers do that all the time... Adapting the game rendering to the hardware
Well that is the question, why is it suddenly an issue for consoles when PC has been doing it for years with no problem/outcry?
PC devs just slaps what they call a "MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS" I've seen recent pc games that requires hardware which requires pc hardware which is significantly more powerful than ps4/xbo. some games will not run on a 6 year old mid range gaming gpu
@tontontam0 They do and they still get those games running on PS4/Xbox One, Doom Eternal for example.
When it comes to pc devs usually build the game to run on older graphics cards and add options for different resolutions and framerates to please those with high end cards.
"They do and they still get those games running on PS4/Xbox One, Doom Eternal for example." I suggest that you check that again and look at the "RELEASE YEAR" of those minimum system requirements. "When it comes to pc devs usually build the game to run on older graphics cards and add options for different resolutions and framerates to please those with high end cards." Everyone knows that, what I'm trying to say is that those "MINIMUM REQUIRED OLDER GRAPHICS CARD" are not as old as the ps4 and xbox one. if you happen to buy a mid end pc during the launch of ps4 or xbox one. then you will not be able to play these latest games that xbox and ps4 gamers are still able to play.
Crazy how this turned into a Xbox bashing discussion. This article was about both systems but somehow it turn to Halo.
It's not really about both systems equally. Sony has said from day 1 they were going to have a full generation. It's only Micrsoft who tried to pass off some BS idea about cross gen then proceded to try to make Sony seem like they were taking advantage of consumers for wanting to support thier next gen console fully. This is on top of Microsoft recent abandoning of their cross gen plans and canceling the xbox one versions of several games and after Phil Spencer and the crew tried to convince everyone that cross gen was so easy it wasn't going to effect game development it was just going to be like sliders. This reaction is backlash to all the bullshit Phil has been peddling for months now.
Can you find an article or anything where it said that Sony was scaling back games from PS5 to fit PS4? I can't,
Why is there a push to make it about both systems when Xbox is facing scrutiny? Low Xbox sales: Combined current gen sales are higher than last gen. Halo Infinite delayed: Both systems are lacking at launch. Devs refute Xbox's cross-gen strategy: This article was about both systems.
But next gen won't be held back by old gen!!!! My daddy Phil promised it to me!!!!!
People often forget how old the original models really are.
Hmmmm this is BS Uncle Phil say just turn the dial down on Xbox Consoles its no problem may take an hour tops.
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