Epic Is Suing Apple Over App Store ‘Fortnite’ Removal, States Case In Filing And In Game

Epic's war on Apple has turned legal after Fortnite was removed from the iOS app store this afternoon. The trap has been sprung, But will it work?

[Jin_Sakai]

They’ll be suing Google too as they just removed Fortnite from the Google Play store.

[Asuka]

Yup.

[Eonjay]

But what about Sony and Microsoft? I was under the impression that they also had the same 30% platform fee.

[Asuka]

@Eonjay

The app store and play store probably bring in more money than psn and xbl... I'm assuming. There are vastly more users with phones than home consoles with vastly larger library of not only games, but apps for every service you can imagine... most of which are either paid to access, lock premium features behind paywalls, or include some form of mtx. Again I'm assuming here, but the potential revenue involved here probably dwarfs anything psn/xbl make. Which is why I'm guessing Epic is targeting the app store/ Google play store as those are the largest markets. If they can reach some sorta settlement there, then Sony/Ms will follow.

... But yeah I wouldn't believe too much of what I just said as I'm literally talking outta my ass here because I'm just generally curious myself. Why Apple and Google, and why now?

[gamer7804]

good for them, apple and android have monopolies on the smartphone market and its hurting competition.

[derek]

Oh please, it ain't no monopoly.

[arkard]

Users don't have any interest in a 3rd option. Microsoft entered and failed. Very few people would be willing to switch to a different ecosystem at this point in time. Some of us have years and years of purchases and wouldn't even begin to think of switching.

[Forbidden_Darkness]

EXACTLY! Imagine if there was only two grocery stores in all of the USA and that's really the only two places you could get your groceries. No matter where you lived you'd have to go through them to buy food. That kind of market control would bad for everyone. It not only hurts the customers, but the suppliers as well.

[voxx187]

Do me a favor and look up the meaning of MONOpoly

[Teflon02]

Epic is the one doing dirt and trying to cut the OS holders out. They shouldn't have the game on the store if they can't follow the rules. They're going to lose

[rainslacker]

Don't think they have much of a case. Apple and Google can allow or not allow whatever they want on their stores, and that is what Epic agreed to when they put their game up on the store. They also actively circumvented a policy, and they did so knowingly.

Apple, and soon to be google, actually have more power behind them than Epic does, because both Apple and Google can block Unreal by simply doing an update that Epic can't circumvent. Apple and Google may face anti-trust investigations in such a case, but it takes years for things like that to get through the court system, and that's a lot of money Epic loses in the mean time. 3rd party loses out, but they are more likely to be angry at Epic than the store fronts, because Epic decided to fire the first shot.

Epic is trying to change the way things are done. In some ways, I agree with what their goals are, but I'm not that keen on the ways they're trying to do it. EGS they did what they had to go to get a sizable market share rather quickly, and while it wasn't ideal, it made more sense from a business perspective than what they're doing now, which seems more like trying to leverage a rather marginal influence on the mobile market to make sweeping changes that would be more beneficial for the software makers and publishers than the store fronts who are taking more than many feel they should be for their services.

[derek]

Epic will lose this one hard. If you don't like their policies create your own platform but you know you can't.

[ravinash]

I find it absolutely funny that Epic is trying to present itself as the victim or the underdog in this situation when I think about how they tried to stiff so many other companies and partners in the past.

[JEECE]

The idea that either Apple or Epic has to lose really makes me happy.

[Melankolis]

That makes it you'll be sad if either Apple or Epic wins.

[JEECE]

I'm already sad that both exist.

[Teflon02]

I'd rather epic lose and they will lol

[Angelin]

How is their existence affecting you?

[JEECE]

Short version, Epic, while a positive force at certain times, is doing several things that hurt games and take them in a negative direction or have the potential to do so (Fortnite model, Chinese investment, Epic Game Store nonsense). Apple ruins basically everything they touch, most notably portable music players. I'm afraid they'll ruin VR as well if they get involved there (as rumors have suggested), because they'll put out a mediocre product with great marketing, it will be successful, then everyone will buy into a revisionist history that they created VR, just like everything else they get credit for creating.

Obviously this won't impact any of that in any real way, but it's just nice to think one of these companies won't get away will all of their nonsense.

[MadLad]

Poor EPIC :'(
Thoughts and prayers.

[VerminSC]

Oh the greed of both these companies. Although it’s not like Apple can adjust % for a single developer. Every other developer would lose their shit. Yeah, Apple shouldn’t charge 30%, but epic has made a KILLING off of fortnite, how greedy can you get.

[telgou]

Sue them for not putting their game in their store ? Am i obliged to sell certain brands in my store ? lmao

But the 30% tax for in game transactions is quite high, 15-20% is reasonable

[Daeloki]

How entitled do you have to be to purposely violate terms/policies, get kicked off and then sue the ones you were an ass to? I'm not exactly trying to defend apple or google here, but their methods smell like Karenism. It's a bit like if I took my own food with me to eat in a restaurant, got kicked out and then sued the restaurant for kicking me out (okay not quite, but the mentality is the same).

And for those who would argue "But they're doing it for the players", do you honestly believe those MT's would be any cheaper if apple/google didn't take their cut?

Final point: It's just a mobile game, who cares?

[lnfiniteLoop]

lets not forget Devs screwing customers with microtransactions... OK in fortnites case its free what do you expect... just like its my choice to not use or buy a product, Devs have a choice not to use a platform to peddle there wares if they dont like the T&C and fees... Epic breached the T&C they signed up for, did it build the software with that in mind... there in trouble if that turns out to be the case...

also add Epic is offering a 20% discount in comparison to the Apple store price by selling direct (apple gets a 30% cut on all sales)... so Epic is making 10% more than they would for the base price...they are so kind wanting to help the consumer! no, they just dont like handing money over to someone else shopfront...

[ocelot07]

Not sure what they can do about apple. But if they loose to Google. Then they can just go back to what they where doing in the first place and download it directly from there own website rather than google play.

[Christopher]

***there are no possible alternatives to get your games on these phones with Apple and Google iOS***

Well, that's just not true. At least on Android phones, which is easy to do.

***The main parallel they draw is between mobile and PC, where Microsoft and Apple own the OS, they are not charging people 30% for everything bought through a PC.***

Microsoft already argued and lost this case. Windows OS is not a closed market system like phones or consoles. It is an OS that is widely sold as its own product whereas both Android and iOS are controlled OS tailored specifically for devices and are not sold otherwise.

By Epic's logic, they also want the right to bypass PSN and XBL on consoles, which are similarly closed off systems just like phones.

Epic is going to end up losing big on this.

[j15reed]

I hope Epic doesn't go to far with it's few billions in thinking they do battle with tech trillionaires, those legal fees do add up and I don't want that to it's business.