Throughout the entirety of The Last of Us: Part 2's gameplay and story, Ellie constantly did things which proved she was a terrible partner to Dina.
She does but she was more of an annoyance in my opinion after a bit . I mean I personally though ended up disliking Ellie also .
can't feel anything because the characterization isn't consistent and keeps suddenly changing according to forced plot events.
We get it. You hate the game. Stop commenting on every single story.
@Name Last Name I need to explain why. Bathyj below said it "had to be Joel that died". this is proof event's in the story were targeted to manipulate the emotions of the player and not the growth or decent of the characters. but it only works on those easily manipulated. and this renders all argument for the motivations of the characters moot. because there is no real case or effect in the game. Just the writer trying to pull the strings of the player. and this failed on most people.
@ Game-Ur All writing and forms of entertainment are designed to speak to or manipulate the audience, none of which is a necessity for rendering a character's motivation irrelevant. It means that you didn't like the story, which does not negate motivation, it projects your motivation on to the characters. I could also argue that you are easily manipulated by things you deem trite. If the characters motivations were actually moot, then a constant barrage of repetitive finger wagging would not be needed, unless it's all in good fun, then I say carry on.
I love the way Joel died. He had it coming and the game was better off without him :) 10/10 fo the bashing of joel's head alone. Bravo!! I love watching people cry over a video game character like they lost their father.... amusing to say the least. Best game ever because of that as well. Thanks ND:) https://tenor.com/view/joke...
@Game-UR Thanks mate, I thought I enjoyed the game. Thought the story was good, not as good as the first game, but still good. But thanks to you and your superior intellect I now know that I didn't like it and am easily manipulated. Could I pm you so you can tell me of any other storys I thought I liked but I didn't really? You need to let it go pal.
@anast "All writing and forms of entertainment are designed to speak to or manipulate the audience" actually no, forced character manipulation stuff is for daily soap operas and cheap teen drama. once the initial shock is gone the story has nothing. good fiction lets the characters write themselves. and the stories stand the test of time.
Precisely, the whole story so forced that it feels fake to me.
Dina was the most consistent character in this game. Man, can you come up with anything that is more than hyperbole, or cite any examples which help clarify the arguments you're making? Do you actually feel you're making strong arguments? Are you just a troll seeing how far you can push people? Is there no redeeming quality to this game that you can find?
Give it a rest damn.
Yeah She’s was extremely uninteresting
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Same. The fact that Joel didn’t allow a vaccine to be made really speaks about his character. Incredibly selfish. I get why she’s defending him, but I also think that she is selfish too. She refuses to see why.
I suggest you play the original again because the way you're framing what happened isn't in any way accurate. What Joel didn't allow was for someone that he viewed as his daughter to not be killed in a procedure that wouldn't guarantee a cure.
Some people don’t believe that the end justifies the means, and I totally get that.
So, lets say for the sake of argument, that the first game ended with Ellie being killed for a cure. But, in this scenario, no cure was actually found. Would people be more prone to thinking that Ellie's death was meaningful and Joel's new revenge quest being justified if the 2nd game showed him trying to take out the fireflies....which he kind of did in the first game anyways since he killed all the parties involved with the cure anyways? Joel was selfish. Joel did supposedly doom humanity to never getting a cure. But, given how he had come to feel about Ellie, and the way the first game made you care about her in the same way, wouldn't it make more sense that he'd protect his own, rather than sacrifice her on the chance that a cure could be made. Joel was always an imperfect hero. Him saving Ellie was not about him doing the right thing. It was a morally ambiguous situation from start to finish, and ever since that first game, it has been discussed if he did the right thing. Even people that disagree with either side of that topic, tend to understand the other side though, and regardless of how one feels about what he did, they all seem to agree that given how Joel had come to feel about Ellie, and how she obviously felt about him, they'd be hard pressed to make a different decision. Joel's redemption was being able to find his own humanity, the rest of humanity wasn't his concern.
1) The Fireflies did not have the right technology to manufacture a cure to the masses 2) The Fireflies were not saints, they could have used the cure to dictate and control whenever they saw fit 3) Cutting open Ellie and killing her might not have guaranteed a cure 100% 4) These are the people who beat Joel up, didn't give him half the things he was promised and tried to send him out into the world without any of his gear, basically sending him out to die. 5) Ellie was going to do the operation because she thought she was going to wake back up, she wanted to learn the guitar from Joel and they said once the Fireflies were done with her he'd teach her how to play back in Jackson. She didn't get a choice. 6) Joel saw her as a daughter. Saving her after his awful selfish, Hunter days past, is the best thing he's done in his life. People really need to stop seeing the small recton bullshit NaughtyDog wants you to see in this game, things they did to force out a new story.
The Tears :(
I mean. She was Ellie's girlfriend but she had a baby from another person in her belly. The director of ac Valhalla lost his job for cheating on his wife. So I'd say that Dina deserved to die
I think the point of how she treated Dina was to show that Ellie was not much of a good person anymore due to her seeking revenge. I also felt Dina was just kind of a tag along with no real purpose, and outside of some narrative points, she wasn't really needed to be there outside the odd time to help Ellie advance through a garage door or scale a slightly higher wall. But, Ellie going along through all that would have left a rather weak narrative if she had no one to play off of, so if it weren't Dina, it would have had to be someone. Joel wouldn't have made sense to the narrative, even assuming he lived, because he would have tried to put a stop to Ellie's quest long before she got to the point she did. So, at least from a story stand point, Dina was probably as good a choice as anyone. Only other logical character would have been Tommy, but I don't think that would have made much of an interesting relationship to explore.
I hated Dina and really wanted her to die.
Precisely why in had to be Joel that died at the beginning of the game because if it was Dina like we all thought it was going to be, then who would have really cared or believed that would spark an epic revenge quest?
I mean, they could have written Dina as a better character and it would have worked fine.
@porkChop: That would have involved better writing and setup.
"had to be Joel" finally admitting it was a forced plot device. like every plot point in the game. and the focus was the emotion of the player not the character in the story.
@Game-ur: " finally admitting it was a forced plot device. like every plot point in the game. and the focus was the emotion of the player not the character in the story." Jesus Christ!! You're a F in loser lol wow!
@Game-ur: You make no sense whatsoever. You're really just showing that you know jack all about storytelling. The focus wasn't on the emotion of the player as the characters are feeling similar raw emotions, right? And those characters change based on what happened to them, right? Wanna know something that TLOU2 does that no other media has ever done, it made me genuinely wish that person was still around so amends can be made and a proper farewell can be said. But much like in life, you don't always get that. Sometimes, you never get to patch it up with your father before he passes. TLOU2 made me feel that same loss of connection that Ellie feels. And guess what? Coming to terms with this fact is what develops Ellie as a character. But sure, it's all about manipulating the player's emotions.
@zeuanimals Ellie had the talk with Joel that night. the character knew it. what was the point of the Santa Barbra arc? what experience did she have there that changed her while the events at the aquarium didn't? nothing in the story causes this. she saw a vision and suddenly she changed. the story is just broken all over
@game-ur I guess you never watched any sort of media where the main characters dies then? I guess if they die, it’s always a forced plot device? yawn. Please don’t let me ever see you complain about generic story telling from now on when creators are too scared to deviate from the norm.
They'd have to build a lot of narrative to get Dina to the point that it would make sense. Particularly since Ellie and Dina were just starting their intimate relationship a day or two before Joel was killed. I'd be hard pressed to believe that Ellie would go off the wall bat sh*t psycho over some chick that she knew for a couple days. She had known the death of much dearer friends and had come to accept it as the norm. Joel, OTOH, was like a father to her. He meant everything to her, and even when she was mad at what he did, she didn't want to be apart from him after her initial anger went away....hence the flashback at the end. The game already had pacing issues, so putting in a long drawn out narrative to build Dina as a character we cared about, and could believe that Ellie was that close to, especially at her age, and how little she really connected with others, would have been more problematic. About the only other person that maybe could have had the same effect would have been Ellie's mother, but Ellie said she was gone, which most seem to believe means that she was dead, because Marlene took Ellie in because she was a friend of Ellie's mother. While this was left vague in the original game, Ellie said, "where are anyone's parents"(or something to that effect), and her mother could have easily been written back into the story, it just wasn't to be, and Ellie seemed to not really have that much connection or much to say about her mom in the first game. However, I still recall the first trailer with Abby, where a lot of people thought it might be Ellie's mother, so I guess some people would have been prepared for it.
@Game-Ur I don't think you know what a forced plot device is. From some random dude explaining it to someone else on the net. "A forced plot is one in which the development of the story relies on putting things into the story that force events to proceed in the specific way, relying on elaborate coincidence, extremely unlikely events, or other plot devices to get from plot point 1 to plot point 2 etc with no effort to find more believable and fitting ways to advance the plot." So, what part of Joel's death meets this criteria? 1. The story did rely on Joel's death to proceed. But that isn't forced, that's a primary plot point of the story. It wasn't a matter of advancing the plot, but setting up the plot. Big difference. 2." relies on putting things into the story that force events to proceed in the specific way" How exactly did the story have to proceed the way it did because of Joel's death? Ellie could have just grieved and come to accept it. But, she wanted revenge, which again, is a MAJOR plot point, and all her reasons for wanting revenge were not random or forced, but believable to the well established relationship the two had. 3. "relying on elaborate coincidence" Nope, none of this. Expect maybe Abby and Joel coming into contact with each other, but it wasn't really that elaborate, just that Abby happened to have something coincidental happen to achieve her goal. It was expeditious to get to the main plot point, instead of spending God knows how long having her hunt Joel in Jackson, which would have only delayed the plot, and was counter to the story they were trying to tell, and would have been repetative when we saw Ellie do the same thing. 4. "extremely unlikely events," None of these...outside the typical Naughty Dog set pieces, or any game really. 5. " or other plot devices to get from plot point 1 to plot point 2" Nope, was a pretty basic plot device to get to Joel's death. Everything after was the plot. 6. "with no effort to find more believable and fitting ways to advance the plot" Perhaps you could offer up some examples of how what the plot points were weren't believable. From some other random dude "a forced plot is a plot that does not develop organically from the characters and the environment.." The plot seemed pretty organic to me, and fit the characters and the environment just fine. Anyone interested, this was from the first search result in Google and links to Quora. There are a lot of answers to the person's question, with examples, and reading through quite a few of them, I can't find any that would support Joel's death being a forced plot device. I can accept that Ellie killing some of those she hunted were forced in a way that made it so she did it and not needed for plot purposes....outside maybe a couple people to drive Abby to find Ellie, but it's not really inconsistent to the narrative.
That’s a bit harsh lol
Forced plot device? Some of Joel's actions came back to haunt him. Could have been any number of people. Been a while since I played the first game, but didn't he kill a whole bunch of people?
Dina was even asking if it was some of the groups that Joel had crossed in the first game when you were first riding into Seattle on Day 1.
Nathan drake killed thousands and he is still alive. They had families too you know
I don't think she nose better.
Gamers are just the best mankind has to offer aren't we? In case my sarcasm isn't coming through, you're an ass.
You're a fun one aren't ya
I assume you also hate this game due to the violence?
No, I love this game. The animations were not what the demo promised exactly but they got pretty darn close and excited me to see what ND can do with a proper console not held back by dated gpu and cpu!
And she's free to deserve away but that doesn't mean you get what you want. People in hell want ice water. She followed Ellie knowing she could be pregnant. She put her own baby at risk. And Ellie is not the mother despite what the writer thinks. They were together 5 minutes, in fact Dina was pregnant before they were even together. Ellie tried to come home and play happy families but she couldn't put her trauma aside and let it go. So she had to leave. It's just another example in this game that no one's all right and no one's all wrong.
They weren't together for 5 minutes. Ellie had feelings for Dina since she got there and Dina had feelings for her for almost as long. She has obviously been playing the role of a mother since JJ was born not sure how she wasn't. Also Ellie seemed to have let it go until Tommy comes and gives her the info and the guilt trips her after she is reluctant to go. If Tommy had stopped looking for Abby Ellie might have never left to get revenge. She might have further down the line but def not when she did.
She didn’t know she was pregnant until they got on the road though. Which is why Ellie said they could’ve turned around
N4G deserves better News
Please. This cesspool? We deserve what we get.
Better news don't get as much discussion and becomes as much heated as news/opinions piece like these on this site.
Dina got exactly what she deserved in Ellie. All the signs of Ellie not being an ideal partner was right in front of her face. And she had plenty of opportunities to respond accordingly. When Jesse showed up that was her opportunity to bail out with Jesse and take care of her and the baby. But she chose to remain with Ellie, that decision ultimately led to Jesse death and a few years of “happiness” with Ellie before making the decision that should’ve been made. Her story was great because it reflects the majority of our decision making in relationships. We know they are no good for us, we see all the signs but we stay, we stay until that person takes the decision out of our hands. We don’t know how to appreciate we we had an move on. It was fitting, relatable and a great layer to the story for me.
I've held back reading comments from haters, I've just finished the game and my impression of the haters saying comments like "fuck abby, fuck naughtydog" are either fakers who did not really play the game and just watched the leaks or they are naturally horrible persons with fucked up morality.
Don't forget people with limited experience of life but think they know it all. These people making death threats. Do they have nothing better to do? Is their life so void of anything that they make time to do such things? If so, what a waste; put it to better use.
I’m inclined to agree.
I think their relationship was probably deeper than what the narrative showed. I can only imagine there was more back story to it than they put into the game. Maybe it was in the original script, but it would have slowed down some of the already slow pacing where it would be prudent to put that into the game, or they just wanted the player to assume that there was more there. I assumed there was, as these people had obviously known each other for a while. Ellie's relationships with both Dina and Jessie were never explained in detail, just put in as something we had to accept that they were friends, and enough hints to suggest that Ellie was always interested in Dina, while Dina was apparently always into Ellie for some period of time. Their romantic relationship seems to have started only a day or two before Joel's death, but I think they were trying to make it so you just accepted they were at least close friends who were starting an intimate relationship. That probably grew while they were on the road to Seattle, which apparently was about a 3-4 month time span.
You probably should do a second play through if you missed the explanations in their relationship. Dina, Jesse and Ellie were practically tied to each other’s hips since they got to Jackson. In Ellie’s journals she talks about their relationships in pretty good detail. Dina loved both Jesse AND Ellie from the beginning, but as you could see Even in their world a Polyamorous person is made to choose as opposed to them just loving her equally. Jesse and Ellie discuss their past in great detail as they travel together as well. We didn’t have to see what brought them together as they recalled frequently what attracted each other to one another. This was a game at the end of the day, and collectibles typically give you the backstory you are requesting. (Journals, unique conversations, etc.) if you want those details go back and play the game to find them
I didn't miss it. And I did two play throughs along with a few chapters for clean up where they discussed that stuff. I knew they had some sort of connection before the dance, but it wasn't official. I don't think we had to see what brought them together. It was implied or stated well enough. I was just stating that going through that process in the main narrative would have been a drag.
She did, but that was the point. Ellie had other important matters requiring closure that didn’t work for Dina long-run. Happens in real life everyday. Felt right to me. Plus, it makes Ellie’s sacrifice all the more real while on the her steep revenge quest. How far will go, how much will you leave behind to accomplish a goal? Shows what really matters most to these characters.
This site could be so much more respectable and reputable if it would do away with these garbage opinion pieces.
agree how dare people to have opinions, ¿how is pushing your pregnant partner to into hostile territory for reasons that concer no one but you selfish? ¿since when leaving your family in suicide mission with nothing to win is bad thing? ¿who cares if that's the whole point of Ellie being left alone at end?
You seem overly invested in a video game story, so overly invested in fact it just comes off as fake concern.
What do you think about the opinions pieces for the Switch and Xbox’s games?
They need to go too.
Sob. Sob. Snurf. Sob. Ueeeee. Sob. Sigh.
I think she deserved better, but I also think Eliie loved her in a way that a crazy person loves someone.
It is how it is, thank god you rabid journalists cannot change a thing.
I feel like Ellie deserved better than the last of us 2's Ellie. Dina was kind of a thot.
Well I think her deserving someone better is the point. Ellie put her selfish desires before her loved ones. Dina did what she needed to do which was leave with her son as she couldn’t wait for Ellie anymore.
She cheated on ellie and put her pregnancy in danger, I think it's the other way around.
When does she cheat on Ellie?
Actually I supposed to write lied but wrote cheated instead. My bad.