Much has been said of the narrative of The Last of Us Part II, good or ill, but Naughty Dog really told this story the only way that it could be told.
I've just completed the game and I don't have any issues with the story. The pacing around the middle wasn't great but overall the game is great and brutal, very brutal. I kept away from all spoilers and everything that people was bitching about but now I wanna know why they was mad over it cause I don't get it.
Joel’s death Playing as Abbie Ellie not killing Abby in the end Those would be the big 3 complains from the spoilers (which obviously ignored any type of context). I also avoided all spoilers as well and had 0 issues with any of those things. Now for the more idiotic complaints, lesbians and a trans character were also cause for hate
Why are you stating it like facts? Those are just memes, the real issue is the delivery of the story,
@Suzyp: What's wrong with the delivery? I thought it was delivered very well.
"Ellie not killing Abby in the end " i would have been pissed if i read this some time ago :D i didn't finish the game yet but i'm not caring anymore. i didn't feel there was a story in this one.. you just fight wave after another. story didn't unfold from the events form the beginning all the way to killing Nora (where i am atm).. dialogue with Nora was nothing.. "where is she? i wont tell you.. baam she dies".. i just cannot understand all this time developing the game for this? Gameplay is same they didn't have to invent anything new.. they removed the great multiplayer.. they could just have given the same multiplayer for free..
Ever since the first trailer people was guessing that Joel is dead. I don't get it why is it so surprising now? It was great he got to go in an unexpected way.
I'm on my third playthrough to get the platinum and it's my favorite game of the generation. No issues here.
I'm on my second. For me it's tied: Bloodborne, RDR2 and Last of Us 2.
I had no issues with the story or the delivery. My only issue was the pacing and length. It felt to long. But even that was deliberate. By the end I just wanted it to be over and I was exhausted. Is that a good feeling when playing a game? Not normally. But I believe that was the point because that's how the characters felt. All this I don't like the story is crap. People say that and then don't explain or whine about small details like we're talking about great literature here. It is still a game after all. Get over it. I think the truth is people are butt hurt over the events of the game and therefore say I don't like how the story was told. I think that's great because it made you feel. I'd not a game you just breezed through and felt nothing like most games Whether they liked it it not everyone felt something strong. Everyone is talking about it and No one is saying meh
"had no issues with the story or the delivery. My only issue was the pacing and length" dude that's literally and issue with the story.
I think the story is great and worthy of the name last of us. But do you feel the story was better than Tlou 1? I felt part one was more emotional and to me that is what Tlou is at its essence. A thematic and emotional powerhouse. I felt that the themes were there, but not the compelling emotion. Tlou 1 made me weep many times, but I only watered once in Tlou 2 when Tommy is at the farmhouse and his eye is gone and is limping around crippled. I think people would have totally overlooked the plot and it's quirks had they hit the emotions harder. The plot choices would have been more understandable for those fans that had a hard time dealing with them.
Precisely. People keep focusing on the first game and separating it from the second in order to make their arguments of what 'The Last of Us' as whole is, and what they believe is established, but it's still one story. The Last of Us and The Last of Us Part II are one story. Joel is Joel is Joel is Joel; there's no Part 1 Joel and Part 2 Joel because it's one story and one Joel. Tearing Part II away from the first entry is the only way people can try to force their 'untrusting Joel' argument in an attempt to discredit the story they don't like. Even then it doesn't work because Joel trusted so many people before he died, and let his guard down many times. They don't like the story's narrative trajectory - period. They hate Abby and many of them don't even see her as valid. I've seen so many arguments that dare to tell Naughty Dog who 'Joel is' based on unwavering, erroneous characteristics people have imposed on him. "Joel would never trust anybody" yet he trusted people in the first game and he lives in the Jackson Community which means that he absolutely trusts people and a lot of people by the looks of it. He trusted Henry, Tess, Bill, some of the people in Boston; he let his guard down before all of them. So, the idea that Joel's character was "subverted" or 'overturned' is a position of utter nonsense because he was established in the first game and the earliest parts of the second as a wary, cautious, yet still malleable individual (Ellie is also proof of that) who was capable of letting his guard down and trusting people, and he did so openly. The idea that he couldn't have possibly chosen to help Abby while facing the threat of being swarmed by Infected is baseless.
Not to mention they were basically on the run and had no choice but to go back to Abby's house. Did people not see the infected hot on their heels? It's just ridiculous rationalizing trying to poke holes in the story because theyre just crying their computer game dad died. Anyone would have done the exact same thing if a horde of infected was chasing you. Listen to the damn and dialogue and tell me what option they had. Everyone's just upset they got played for suckers. We all thought Dina was going to die. Naughty dog bait and switched the hell out of us and now they're pissing and moaning about it. I can tell you this if Dina had died at the beginning of the game I would have barely cared because we didn't know her. It would have been a week premise. but when Joel died I was mad. Not at Neil druckmann like the children in here but at Abby. I hated that bitch stop I wanted her dead and I wanted to do it. Then later when you played as her and realised she just did the exact same thing that Ellie was doing now, I couldn't really buying her for that anymore. I never cared about her the way I loved Elle but I couldn't hate her like I did at the start because she was completely justified. Anyone that doesn't see that Joel deserved to die but thinks Ellie should have killed Abby for what she did is a hypocrite.
They could have killed abby. That's another way to go. Many people would have been satisfied.
Then they'd be missing the point of the story
there is no point. that's the actual theme of the game.
Well the tale of revenge had to end. They could have gone the path where ellie kills abby and that lev kills ellie and then dinahs kids kills lev. That's it no more revenge. One side is entirely dead.
The whole point is that all of this killing and violence is for nothing and the person Ellie became is certainly not the person Joel wanted her to be. What would she have accomplished? Killing a former slave that was left to die for days for the crime of killing Joel, the man who killed dozens of that former slave's friends and her own father? This cycle of revenge gets nothing done but exterminate the human race one person at a time. You can see WLF soldiers dropping their kids off at school, you can be damn sure Ellie's killed a few of those kids' parents. The entire first game is about Joel, a person who's done some terrible things, finding his humanity again when he has to care for Ellie. This shows anybody has the capacity to change, and in this world where everyone's an asshole who probably has done terrible things, everybody deserves the benefit of the doubt. It's legitimately scary that so many people still want Abby dead after everything she's gone through. It's literally worse than any prison sentence. She literally becomes a slave after losing all but one recent friend, and then she's left to die. She literally went through hell and you wanna snuff out what little life she's still clinging on to. Just walk away and realize she's repented in some way.
Ellie could have realized that at the farm. ending it there would have made more sense. sad ending to a sad story but we can get it. instead she goes in another murder spree just to change her mind at the last moment. those final moments felt forced. every turning point in the game felt forced. the script fails in selling the tragedy.
You know you could sneak past all enemies.. actually the game encourages you to do so.. you only end up forcefully killing that girl in the hospital and 3 others out off selfdefense... so it does make sense to let her live. Not only you let her live, but if it wasn’t for Ellie being there at the end, Abby would’ve been dead... so she actually ended up saving her and the kid.
Weird, I see many people calling Abby a psycho for wanting revenge. Are these the same people that would've liked to kill her in the end in revenge?
That is what the story is about revenge on both sides could be justified. Most just had an emotional attachment to ellie and Joel. Humanity is crumbling and moral compass is changing in a new world. Killing to survive and killing for revenge has different emotional consequences.
I would have hated that personally. Abby is the most relatable character in the game, IMO.
The cycle of revenge had to end. It wouldn't have brought Joel back.
I actually really like the game. However, I disagree that ND had no other way to tell the story. I would prefer that story and character development take a front seat(it is actually already very good, and the main reason I play ND games) while themes and lessons targeted at the audience could be less transparent. Don't hit me over the head with a theme. Now let me say that this game DID that, actually, it did put character development first, but I do feel the game was stuck, story-wise, by its themes. That is why I mention it and why I don't believe they had no other way to tell the story.
Killing Abby would make Ellie look very bad imo. Abby spared Dinas life. Also.. She could've killed Ellie earlier but didnt.
Abby spared Dinas life because of Lev not because of her own moral compass. When Ellie told Abby to not kill Dina because she was pregnant Abby said "Good".
the worse part is we can't believe any character.
She still spared her all the same while Dina pleaded for Ellie not to pursue revenge any further and Ellie stills abandons them.
If you take other's opinions in consideration that is part of your "moral compass".
As i said to another person let me explain why Abby did this "Didn't come to your mind that Abby said this because Ellie just killed one of her pregnant friends and she thought to her self that Ellie killed her in cold blood seeing that Mel had a big belly while Dina don't yet Abby was blinded by revenge that Ellie is cold killer who didn't care that Mel with *the very big belly* was pregnant she wasn't there to see what happened ... why should she care or even believe that Dina is pregnant and she just killed the only person Abby ever loved as well at the same time ... i fully understand where Abby is coming from with this"
@Tricksterarrow No its not @Thekingkratos The argument is why Abby spared Dina not why she almost went through with it. But on a side note Abby is an idiot if she thought there wasn't going to be repercussion for killing Joel. What was she expecting when there were two witnesses there to see it? Stupid character and even dumber story writing.
You do know that abby saw the death of her pregnant friend right? That's why the "good". Thanks to Lev she let her go...she still had that semblance of letting it go. And she let ellie live again. @game-ur...YOU can't believe any character. Ah well i guess i got my clousure with the game. Its bad thay you guys don't. Im sorry that the game happened to you.
Yes it is.
So she is idiot for only killing her father killer ?... i don't agree at all Abby showed Ellie mercy and Ellie was the one blinded by rage and revenge...Ellie even admit to Abby that she know why Abby killed Joel and it show that deep down she knows he deserve his fate ..but she couldn't let go because she love Joel so much as a father As for why Abby let go of Dina ... it because of Lev and the fact that she just want to let go of all of this She avenged her father death and no more and want to be left alone ..she doesn't want to kill Ellie at all ,it was Ellie who couldn't let go even though she know she is wrong about all of this and Joel deserve it The game story is amazing .... i could argue with you all day about every single thing about it ...to understand any of this you need to play the game because alot of things happen outside of cutscenes
@kingkratos "So she is idiot for only killing her father killer" Yes, only a moron would assume that someone who is screaming and shouting while you are killing someone they love would not come for revenge. Either go all the way through with it (including killing all the witnesses) or why bother? You are just setting yourself up for retaliation. "Abby showed Ellie mercy and Ellie was the one blinded by rage and revenge" If Abby was so merciful why kill Joel? Clearly she should be able to understand that Joel is just doing what any father would. AND Joel was acting in self defense since it was the doctor who drew the weapon first. "As for why Abby let go of Dina ... it because of Lev" Yea, i just said that. "to understand any of this you need to play the game because alot of things happen outside of cutscenes" Of course because I don't share the same nonsensical perspective as you I haven't played the game right? You lemmings are trying to paint this aristocratic image of yourselves as gate keepers for the narrative of this game and its quiet funny.
It could have been told 10 thousand different ways......
A story about rebuilding the society and help expanding Jackson town would be alot of fun as well.
Personally I've come close to committing murder out of revenge simply to change my mind at the last minute. This shit happens, bruh.
Considering who was behind the helm of the story that isn't surprising, sigh I miss Bruce Straley.
7 long years to visit this pile of rubbish experience does make sense for blind fanboys after all. It's like watching the first season from The Walking Dead then suddenly & gladly second season became Days of our Lives... that's what happened to the franchise...a blind toddler could easily adress this issue.... sadly most gamers will bite whatever bone thrown at them and claims it's been a great run as long they are mashing buttons or having an exclusive game on their beloved console. Everyone knows the success of part 2 launch was and is based on the success of the first game...
nah the story could have definitely hit all the same themes and major plot points in a different way. Heck, even just rearranging the timelines would make it better. They had pretty strange telling in some parts like the last scene with joel and ellie and i think some major points of character development were missed
Jim Sterling summed the story up pretty well, If it was a film or a book it would be mediocre at best b-movie quality pretty much. Lol. Tbh videogame stories aren't the best generally.
"Tbh videogame stories aren't the best generally" Games like Mass Effect, Undertales, Yakuza 0, GTA San Andreas, and Chrono Trigger have some of the best stories ever told in video game. But you're right, those breed of games is rare.
Best stories ever told in VIDEO GAMES. Like was mentioned before even the first game had an OK story at best but what elevates it is you control the action.
If that’s the only way Naughty Dog could have told it, then that’s pretty sad.
I still liked it overall and thought it was a bit of an emotional roller-coaster, didn't agree with everything storywise but it was a great effort, you could of definitely tweaked it slightly for a much better outcome, note SPOILERS AHEAD, so I would keep Abby and the WLF/Scars in the game. All the flashback points the same to build up the back story of what happened between games, but have it that Ellie and Dina were in a relationship for a good few years . WLF still come to Jackson led by Abby and kill a load of people trying to get to Joel, including Dina. Ellie goes out for revenge refusing Joel's help originally, Ellie heads to Seattle for revenge, eventually Joel catches up and she reluctantly accepts his help as she is way over her head, another Joel and Ellie story but this time it's about Joel trying to redeem himself in Ellies eyes for the pain he has caused her no matter the cost. No gameplay parts as Abby except in flashback scenes, mixed gameplay between Joel and Ellie again. Just my take and how a few tweaks could of made it a much better game storywise some may agree some may not.
The pacing of the game was a bit off for me as well in the middle. But I get why they gave Abby and Ellie basically equal playing time. As far as the story goes, I loved it. Loved how it ended too. I like to think Ellie just went back to Jackson at the end there, but I'm not sure how they can have a Part 3 with that. Maybe part 3 is her search for Dina. I think the series though should be done.
The story is good. It's just dragged out and boring as hell. They should have just cut the duration of the game in half.
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