I resonate with critics' “must play” assessment of great games. But there are times when I simply do not agree with critical acclaim. Let's talk about it.
Sadly the leaks have done irreparable harm. If you thought Death Stranding was a divisive game, wait until you see that TLOU2 is nearing 100K user review scores compared to DS’s 15k user scores. The hate mob already had their review bomb ready without even playing game based on false info from the leaks: Abby is not trans or gay, killing dogs is not a big deal and the violence in the game is not so over the top anyone can’t take it. Yet no matter how some of that info is proven false and how the game does its best to prove itself, people won’t listen. The game is trash no matter what. I bet if the plot points didn’t get leaked people would see this story more objectively and bring better discussions to the table, but right now it is a damn cesspool between people who like the game vs the ones who didn’t like it, with mobs attacking both groups for their opinion of the game. The ending of the first game was also divisive with people who thought Joel was a bad guy vs the people who thought he did the right thing. If that ending got leaked people would flip out saying the journey was for nothing, similar to what is being said about the ending of this one Also Some Youtubers with ill intent hating this game are also contributing to this sending their fanbase to spread the negativity. Whether their are right or not because of the DMCAs the ill intent is there. The objectivity is thrown out of the window. I’d welcome anyone with a different opinion than mine. Even the first had its people who didn’t like it and that’s fine. So far the game is awesome and I am not upset at Joel’s death anymore. When I finish it today I will see the story pana out. So far I am not seeing the massive hate this game is getting
Personally I think everything about the game is great except the story. Unfortunately it is a story based game. Specifically playing as Abby is the problem I have. I just don't want to do it. It is not fun and is completely immersion breaking for me. Jeremy Jahns did a good spoiler discussion on the game on youtube and summed up the issue pretty well. It's not about the other stuff you mentioned. I really loved the first game so this game was a huge disappointment. I have not called the game trash and I will not even rate it but being 14hrs in and then suddenly having the game turn on me was not a good experience.
I know, only Ellie and Joel can get revenge everybody else can just sit there and have their loved one killed by the main characters, lol. Even though the Abby section is like for like the Joel and Ellie adventure from the prequel. Opinions I guess.
I personally thought Abby's side of the game was better and more action packed like Uncharted 4 mixed with Resident Evil, more so than Ellie's side which is also great with open area stealth, exploration, some Clicker horror, and some setpieces for Ellie here and there. One of my favorite scenes with Abby is the build up to the skyscraper walk across and the setpiece itself! I like how Lev help Abby deal with her fear of heights! Whenever she looks down you can hear her breathing heavy and scared for her life. Naughty Dogs attention to detail is unmatched by any game ever made before!
"Specifically playing as Abby is the problem I have. I just don't want to do it." Dude i had the same effect. Just hated Abby. But damn by the end of the game..ND made me care for her. I guess different opinions on the game. I would rate this game 9. Yes there are parts that can really drag on. (Flash backs, island)..but after everything else, this still is an amazing game.
I didn't want to play as her at first. Or rather, I didn't want to go through the early process of starting those few days over, because part of it did meander on a bit. After she got back to the aquarium with Lev though, the story picked up, and that's where I started to like her more. I thought the story itself was OK, but like many seem to feel, I thought it did have some severe pacing issues....and then again, it just started over those same issues with Abby part. I was disappointed in the ending only because it just seem to come quick, and without any real explanation about WHY it ended the way it did. We're just left to assume a lot of things about what Abby, and why she changed, although some of it is pretty easy to figure out. The group in Santa Barbara was just a bad group, with no real explanation or motivation, and it was kind of a weak enemy compared to the rest of the game. This game does a pretty dark theme that isn't typical in video games. It's rare to see the story from the other point of view, and we're supposed to just accept that the bad guy is evil. Even when most games try to build empathy for the enemy, they usually still just make them psychotic and your motivation boils down to saving the world against evil. This game wasn't quite so black and white, and the reason you had to play as Abby was to build a connection with her....whether you wanted to or not. Of course, if you didn't, then that's fine, I won't judge. But some people are taking their dislike to the extreme, and not bothering to even consider what was trying to be achieved with the story by doing what it did.
I wouldn't worry about it so much, although I do agree that without the leaks, it may have been less vitriolic, since it wouldn't have time to fester and people would have actually had to play the game, or wait a bit after it released to become upset. But, after a 2-3 weeks, people will move on. Probably after GoT launches, and half the hate mob can move onto that game since their intentions aren't really about TLOU2 at all. The other half can grow bored with antagonizing those who liked the game, and move onto something else to be annoyed about. To me though, the plot points, or some of the story being leaked just kind of lessened the impact of some of those points of the game. Moreso, they left me playing parts of the game expecting things to happen, even if they didn't happen the way things were said to happen....like for instance, I expected a rape scene of some trans character. I enjoyed the game though. Working on my 2nd NG+ playthrough for the platinum. Once things settle down, maybe some decent discussions can be had about it, and I've seen a few people be more eloquent in their reasons for not liking the game, or more so the case, being somewhat disappointed, or not liking it as much as the first. I think this game will have the same kind of discussions the first afforded. Different interpretations will still lead to discussion of different opinions on said interpretations, but people will concede that no one is fully right or wrong in how they see it. Just got to weed out the irrational vitriol that is being spewed for the time being.
You got spoiled before the release?
I saw one spoiler, and then while I was playing, a few more things got mentioned. Some of it wasn't spoilers, and just people saying that things would happen, that didn't happen the way they said.
Abby. Abby is a big problem, the game needs you to emphasize with her, if you don't then the game fails for you. And oh god did i hate her, she's very very unlikable and uneven as a character. As someone mentioned here, her split-second personality change with no reason towards the scar kids is just plain weird, not to mention that she effed Joel at the beginning of the game. I can't tell you how many times i made her die on purpose in that Ellie fight. Also the two SCAR kids, i didn't like them, and they were major plot drivers in the game, somehow i never cared for them as they weren't better developed character-wise. The problem is that some major story-altering events happen for their sake, which is frustrating because i can't emphasize so i don't see the purpose of doing them. The pacing is all over the place. I keep thinking that maybe if that whole Abby arch came before the Joel thing it would have been better paced, but no. I get the feeling Neil spat on both ellie and Joel's already established arcs just for shock value, which didn't really do it for me. i could go on and on. But i'd like to try and forget about it.
Of course it is fine. Sometimes the most highly rated or highest selling games are not even close to catching my attention. GTAIV, Fortnite, Minecraft are among the many games I could live without.
Reads like "It's Okay to Not Like A Great Game - but you're wrong"
LMAO. The website name speaks for itself.
Well if you don't like a so called "great" game, than you don't find the game to be great. In the end the only opinion that matters in such things is your own as you are the one who is spending money on the game.
its not okay to call a bad game "great"
Its not ok to call a game you've never played anything at all.
I never liked Skyrim.
Neither did I, I also never cared for gta5, or reddead. But you would never see me trying to tell everyone else that its bad. Why do these people invest so much time in shittalk? .... Get on with something you like...
Great to some, not so great to others. When the people and even streamers differentiate in opinion and score vs journalists, you know something is up. I'd say the fanbase is completely divided on this game, kind of like Death Stranding, which I think has a much better story than LoU2, I felt more emotion in that than this. Sucks this game fell so low.
The game is all about the story, and the story in this one is hit or miss. I will always love the first game, but I will just pretend that the second game didnt happen. We didnt need a second part, the story was perfect as it was.
According to that soldier and that prisoner, Abby was bitten, so she dies anyways. "Apparently."
You're confusing Abby and Ellie. The guy she extracted the info on the camp's location just gave her the info believing she was going to turn anyway. I'm sure the bite mark was still evident when she got there, and the prisoner(s) was(were) referring to the bit mark on Ellie's hand.
Yeah the bite was on her hand and the prisoners noticed it when she pointed the gun
I must have edited something out - what I meant was she was bit when she forced that other Rattler into that Clicker, and the guy only gave her that info because he thought she was going to be infected.
Replay that part again. A lot of people have been making this mistake. The prisoner even aimed at ellie and says "she's bit".
I like most of Dark Souls, just not being cursed at the bottom of that tree.
It is okay to not like a great game. It isn't okay to try and tell others how good or bad a game is when you haven't played it yourself. Watching a video of someone else playing a video game does not qualify you to pass judgement. Do you think that you could rate the difficulty of Dark Souls by watching someone else play it?
Not sure in this case where story is like the main part of TLOU. Story, acting, cutscene do not change your perspective whether you play it or not. Same like watching a movie. Dark soul is a bad example because it is all about gameplay and you can't see the difficulty unless u play it your self, obviously some people can make it seems easier than it looks.
Are you one of those that consider The Last of Us just a walking simulator? Do you think Uncharted is just an interactive movie? I've seen people who attacked anyone for claiming those things now try to say that one can judge The Last of Us Part 2 simply by watching a video of someone else play it. I also cannot recall a single time where it was acceptable to render a definitive judgement on the quality of a videogame just by watching a video of someone else playing it. All you get from watching a video of someone playing The Last of Us 2 is what the story is. You do not get an understanding of what the game is since you have removed the interactive element that separates videogames from movies. You've made zero choices in the game and have had zero reactions from those choices- the 2 defining traits of videogames. It would be like just reading the scripts of Alien and Leviathan(1989) and making a conclusion about what is better. Sure you know what everyone says and what the story is but you have no idea which one is a better movie since you haven't experienced what defines a movie.
I don't know how people can actually just watch a game and make inform decisions on it. Its a combination of story & gameplay that you yourself experience. Spiderman, GoW, HZD, Tlou + Tlou2, Uncharted...all these have great stories and gameplays that you must experience it yourself.
There's a lot of exposition in the game play parts of the game as well. A lot of character development. I find it extremely hard to believe that more than a few people sat and watched an entire 25 hour play through to form their opinion. I can barely watch a 90 minute movie that I'm bored with, or think the story is lame, much less 20+ hours of someone else piddling around in a game. Also, considering almost every negative talking point seems to center around things that were merely leaked before the release of the game, with very few being able to cite specific examples using character names or distinct events, or being able to explain some of the context of many of the events being discussed, makes me think that it's probably more likely someone hasn't played it if they are expressing such hostility for the game. There are exceptions, but as of now, they are certainly not the rule. I'd imagine for the amount of time some people have discussed how much they dislike the game, they could have probably played the game through at least once.
I Never consider it a walking simulator, but TLOU is not the kinda of game where your decisions or what you do in the game matters (like different endings or how the world changes because of your decision). It is a story that ND wanted to tell, you can't change it. You can only go along for the ride. Again, this type of games can be watched and make a "subjective" opinion on the matter, story wise, without playing because the story doesn't change. In this case, many fans who were so attached to the characters that ND built in the first one may find it difficult with the direction Neil took with the game, and it is justifiable to them. It is still a subjective opinion, no less different then those that are ok or like the changes in the sequel.
I'm sorry but those are not the decisions I am talking about. Every videogame is based around decisions - it is why we have a controller in our hands. Do you go left or do you go right? Do you press A or B? It is how you make these decisions that define the experience of the game. Is your game over with an "add another quarter to continue" or are you the top scorer? Do you find the combat in Dark Souls challenging or are you completing it with a Guitar Hero guitar just to give it some actual challenge? Do you go straight to the end or do you explore and discover the secrets of the world you are in? When you watch someone else play a videogame, you are removing yourself from making all decisions. It is just a movie then and all you can comment on is the story elements. (As for The Last of Us Part 2, quite a bit of story is told through optional dialogue and items found throughout the world. If the video you are watching doesn't have these because of the decisions made by the player recording the video, then you are only seeing part of the story). Problem is that people who have only read spoilers or watched a YouTube video are claiming The Last of Us Part 2 is a bad game, something they have no experience with.
Its ok to disagree with the haters that hate the game, because a major character never die in style like all those cliches done to death in movies and games. And it's also ok to appreciate a company that made a bold move with a different kind of storyline than we are use to seeing. A story about saving yourself, instead of saving the world and you don't even choose a side to win the war! You just leave it to focus on your mission. As a matter of fact Cyberpunk 2077 from the very beginning according to Game Designer Mike Pondsmith, is about saving yourself also. Not about saving the world. So get use to seeing alot of storyline like this in games.
What's with all these countless articles damage controlling tlou2? Just play it or move on.
Whats with all the countless articles attacking TLOU2. Just play it or move on.
It isn't for everyone
This games narrative is such a disasters, imagine forcing players to commit heinous killings just to emotionally manipulate the player into thinking what YOU just forced he to do makes him a bad person lol.
I could tell you the same about the first game. I didnt want to kill all those people as Joel and felt bad. buuuhuuu emotinal manipulation my ass. its a freakin game
No you can't, and you don't understand the argumment that is being presented. I never said whether or not I wanted to kill those npcs. My argument here is that naughty dog gives you no other choice but to kill these characters than shames you for it. It is stupid virtue signaling.
Oh my god. They make you feel something, they let you feel the character, what you feel is on yourself. Virtue signaling. Holy hell
I didnt feel anything, I just pointed out their attempts at emotional manipulation.
you should stay away from people, media, entertainment, books...wait..pretty much anything that makes up this world then if you call that emotional manipulation. The death of sarah in the first one...let me guess...emotional manipulation...because they wanted to make you feel with Joel. got it If you dont water a plant and it dies. Is that also emotional manipulation? HOW dare you plant, make me feel bad for not watering you !
Sure it's ok to like or not like any game. It's an opinion. It's ok, even if sometimes I cant understand the dislike, but that's why it's someone else's opinion. The problem is throwing hate towards the people that have a different opinion, or telling them they are wrong. Even bigger is some of the things said to the dev's of games. If you dont like something, fine, but cant you just have a normal conversation about it. With The Last of Us 2 I can understand some of the criticism, but in my opinion, I loved it.
Unfortunately, console gamers are a bunch of verbally abusive savages. It's like you're not allowed to have a different opinion. Just look at Playstation and Xbox fans. Regardless of website, they're worse than Zeus, Odin, Grifith, Shou Tuker, and the series finale of Dexter combined. Console gamers would rather die, than have unity and respect for each other opinions.
What people refuse to understand is people have opinions. If I said this game was horrible, any sales chart, meta critic review, or personal feelings wont change my mind. It happened with Fortnite, Battlefield, and Minecraft. Deal with it.
The problem is with people that never played it, you could say that from what you saw you wouldnt like it but you would still never know until you actually played it
I didn't play BF5 nor Halo 4 due to features that did not interest me. Sure, the game would be good, but not great enough to justify a 60 dollar purchase. I wouldn't give either of those a 10/10 score, especially since I know the devs are capable of much more.
I love The Last of Us 2 and don't really care if others do or do not. Though I would like to play a third one and if I am the only one that likes it, then it would suck. Diablo 3 is a crap game, so the writer is not the only one. I have only played DS2 and DS3, and love DS3 to death, but DS2 is one of the biggest fails, in my opinion. The game is pure crap, worse than Diablo 3.
That headline reads like deranged therapy lol. Imagine giving a crap enough about what something thinks about your opinion to write something like this. I personally like TLOU2. I’m on Seattle day 3, having a blast. If I didn’t I would have no problem saying so and wouldn’t give a crap less about what someone thought about it. Grow a spine. TLOU2 is 10x better than TLOU1. Don’[email protected]
I agree. Plenty of games everyone else loved that I thought was mediocre
"Don't like" is ok, but some people HATE the game, they have to dig up negative articles of tlou2 daily and submit them to N4G, bomb the user reviews section on metacritic, write bad reviews of the game on every online retail store, while they have not even played the game, some of them have not even played the first or even own a PlayStation. And then go to every positive articles of the game and write "it is fucking garbage"... There are games that I don't like, but honestly can't find that much time to hate on one.
Let's look at that on this site - N4G. Was was the general response here to people on this site that said I like the game or I love the game, or I think its the best game ever? What was nature of the majority of responses they received? Now what was the general response to people that said, " I don't like the game, or I didn't think much of it, or even those that said I think ND dropped the ball. They never said they hated it but just said they care for it. What was the general response to those people?
It's pretty rare I spend much time discussing games I don't like. If I do, it certainly isn't for days, or weeks on end. I express my dislike when it's relevant, then move on.
Know what I do when I'm not interested in a game? I move on. I don't put this much energy into hating something I haven't even played because of X, Y, or Z reason. That's not normal behavior.
Developers will start making mediocre games with a certain formula knowing it will get a 10/10.
Yeah, that must be it. 🙄
bs, the game is not selling because they knew it would get a 10/10 its selling because people like what they are seeing
of course you have the very right to not like the game, just dont go around telling other people that you dont like the game and you should too. Then there's some people pretending they play it but actually just jumping with the hate bandwagon and just youtube it and skip skip with cut scene. In my opinion people who really play the game have the right to voice out opinion.
It's ok not to like a game... It's bad when you drive a hate campaign for that game which is what most people have done.
Someone looking for clicks hard :)
Are we consoling the haters now? lol Yes its totally fine for you to not like a great game, it makes no sense whatsoever but its totally ok. smh
Doesn’t everyone have a right to an opinion? The quality of a game from an individual’s viewpoint, is subjective their own opinion. I personally don’t like Dishonored, Kojima titles and Sekiro, despite the previously mentioned games getting much critical praise.
Yes it is despite my problems with TLOU2, the gameplay, music, and character animations are solid. I have nothing but praise for it in the gameplay department but man did they butcher the story.
It's one of those games that's showing a huge difference between ''journalists'' ; scores and user scores. Last game that had the same impact was death stranding. Youtubers and facebook users seem to be leaning more towards the ''users'' scores and experience. Basically the majority outside of this website didn't like both games. i am certain some people have forced themselves to like both games on this website just cause they are Sony console exclusives. I honestly think we need the Xbox's fanboys back in numbers so we can balance the community a la post 360-to-next-gen transitional era. Now it's just Sony fans smelling their own farts. For Christ sake some people are celebrating PSN plus' bargain bin offering for this month.
Yeah. N4G is my sole motivator for deciding what games I like and don't like. It's not like I can possibly have an opinion of my own, based on my own experience, and validate that opinion with examples and specific citations about what I liked and didn't like. I know I'm incapable, and so are most that liked this game, are incapable, of possibly having any form of critical thought to form their own viewpoint on anything without being told what we should feel by a vocal group of people who we don't even know. Obviously, I'd be much more informed about my opinion and know better what to think if I just stuck to YouTube and Facebook, because after all these years, they have exemplified the standard for free thinking and criticial thought or analysis, and are much more enlightened than I could ever hope to be. That said....why exactly would we need more Xbox fans to balance the community when discussing this game? What possible relevance does xbox have to this game? I'm curious. Is it because a lot of the hate seems to be propogated by the console wars themselves?
You seem to be confusing ''majority'' and ''some people'' with everyone. If you like the game good for you, just don't go around shaming everybody else who doesn't, which seems to be a recurrent theme nowadays. Take a look at the majority of articles and comments in here and you'd see a ''you're either with us or against us'' mentality. And the reason Xbox fans are needed is to offset the echo chamber Ps4 fanboys have created. Out of 100 comments concerning TLOU2, let's say 15% of them are not being up-beat about it, guess what happens to them ? they get drowned in down-votes and hate. What does that tell you ? that the website's predominantly ps4 fans who need to be balanced out. If most of the down-voters were able to even conduct a civil discussion about the game then that wouldn't be a problem, but one look around and you'll see how things are. Which brings me to another point, blind fanboyism ruins everything. we've been getting mediocre to sub-mediocre games every month on PSN plus and somehow people on this website are spinning and celebrating trash bargain bin games and those who criticize it are negged. Imagine if the Ps4 pulled an always-online thing like xone did early on and everyone cheered, where would we be right now.
And you seem to be confusing a vocal minority with the majority. The majority hasn't expressed a public opinion on social media about this game. Nowhere close to it based on the released sales numbers. All the good and bad opinions expressed are by far, a very small percentage of people who have played the game. When a good part of that majority also appears to have questionable motives for not liking the game, or obviously hasn't even played the game, then it calls into question your classifying any group as a majority rule "they get drowned in down-votes and hate." Yeah, and that's because there is a hate campaign against this game. When you have a bunch of people throwing extreme vitriol at the game, many without any justification beyond blind hate, then those that liked the game start to get defensive. This isn't a problem with the make up of the community. This is a problem with the internet, and social media in general. A very loud group drowns out the reasonable group. Then you have people that act like this loud group is also a majority...such as yourself. Want better discussion, and opinions to be listened to? Then stop perpetuating a myth and fanning the flames as if what you feel is fact, and actually listen to the other side. It's hard to take your stated desire of more balance seriously, when you won't even consider the opinions of others. No one is forcing themselves to like the game because of some console allegiance. Even if they were, they'd still not spend as much time talking about the game. Even on the Xbox side where there are fewer games to like, and certainly some duds, it's usually a very small group of rampant fan boys who try really hard to make a game into something it's not. While that does happen on the Sony side as well, many people have expressed why they like this game with enough backing to their statements to show they not only played it, but have the capacity to think criticially for themselves on why they liked it, and so far, I haven't seen any of those reasons for liking it being because they are Sony fans. ND has a habit of making GOTY winning games. GOTG games. This game is no different. They have a pedigree, and they met the standards that they have built for themselves. Acting like people are delusional or blind to the truth because they liked this game, or that they have too much allegiance to a certain console, is just narrow minded, and makes you look less intelligent than you are trying to seem from your statements.
''And you seem to be confusing a vocal minority with the majority. The majority hasn't expressed a public opinion on social media about this game. Nowhere close to it based on the released sales numbers. All the good and bad opinions expressed are by far, a very small percentage of people who have played the game'' - So let's ignore and dismiss the hundreds of thousands who voted on metacritic (103k) / google reviews (42k- Just Canada) / Sony AND ND's official pages on Facebook just because they didn't reach the same number as the official units sold. No you're right, they must be bots or have an agenda against Neil, god forbid he does something wrong or the game is actually bad. Judging by your logic, it seems you'd be the kind of person who'd ignore medical studies that take a sample of the population instead of it as a whole just because it doesn't represent everyone. ''Yeah, and that's because there is a hate campaign against this game. When you have a bunch of people throwing extreme vitriol at the game, many without any justification beyond blind hate, then those that liked the game start to get defensive.'', '' It's hard to take your stated desire of more balance seriously, when you won't even consider the opinions of others.'' - With a statement like that i can't even take you seriously but i'll try. It seems that you didn't actually take the time to read why people hated the game, heck, you never even asked ME why i hated the game. But no, it's ME who has to listen to the other side, god forbid you do. ''Want better discussion, and opinions to be listened to? Then stop perpetuating a myth and fanning the flames as if what you feel is fact, and actually listen to the other side. It's hard to take your stated desire of more balance seriously, when you won't even consider the opinions of others'', ''ND has a habit of making GOTY winning games. GOTG games. This game is no different. They have a pedigree, and they met the standards that they have built for themselves. Acting like people are delusional or blind to the truth because they liked this game, or that they have too much allegiance to a certain console, is just narrow minded, and makes you look less intelligent than you are trying to seem from your statements.'' - If you can't see the irony and contradiction in both of your statements then i suggest you stop replying. You actually just proved my point. Just cause ND made quality games in the past doesn't mean they can't slip up or be above criticism. And the fact that you hold them in such high regards, dare i say god-like, means that you factually can't see the other side of the coin. Which is why, your whole opinion is invalid until you actually understand where the criticism is coming from. ***Spoiler alert**** It's not blind hate