Wccftech spoke to Deliver Us The Moon developer KeoKeN to learn their thoughts on next-gen consoles, Sony's PlayStation 5 and Microsoft's Xbox Series X.
I really want to experience the difference between Tempest and Project Acoustic.
I cant wait for the only next generation console to release which is the ps5. Buying it day one
I really think both consoles will be very good technically speaking. For me, it'll be PS5 day 1 though. It's where most of my online friends are heading plus I like Sony exclusive content. XsX maybe at some point in the future. For the time being I can use my PC for MS exclusives.
LOL. That is just plain fanboyism. You do realize that there is only two specifications where the PS5 is better than the XSX? SSD storage device speed and I/O throughput to/from the SSD storage device. Somehow this has turned into the only thing that matters this next generation. But, I guess if the game is stuttering in framerates, or doesn't display in 4K HDR on your TV that means nothing. Not that I don't think PS5 will perform well, but there are differences in the specs that may affect this stuff.
Neo, clock speeds too, but I agree with you, both consoles are as next gen as the other, they both concentrated on different things this time, and both will offer compelling experiences, both will do 4k,60fps,30fps,hdr and probably checkerboard in some configuration, I dont see one struggling with anything the other can do in terms of framerate and resolution, but we will all know for sure when the third party stuff starts coming out.
I will be there day one to get the PS5. I just hope there is no major shortages.
@neogamer. See that’s where you are wrong and don’t have your facts straight. It also has a faster GPU, has more cpu power freed because of stand alone audio chip, RDNA 3 features, a customer chip to process SSD operations, and will run the operating system on said one of two chips. M$ has to do all of those other operations on their two man chips thus taking away power for those said chips. Xbox fans are really delusional sometimes..
@Kudos. They still have to run that on their main cpu no matter how you want to spin. Also Sony has another chip for the operations of the SSD through put and will run the os on one of those said chips freeing up more power.
PS5 is more current gen than next gen. It's tempest engine for example that supports 50 various audio channels at once is still 78 less than the 128 audio channels that Dolby Atmos currently supports. So the Xbox One X audio is already superior to what you will be getting on the PS5. Sony is playing you for a fool and you don't even realize it.
@cooperdnizzle Audio processing taking up too many resources havent been a problem for years lol. Maybe if you are on a 2 core cpu or a old Pentium 4 maybe lol. Plus i rather use a external dedicated Dac and Headphone amplifier than any built in sound anyway. And having your gpu speeds going up and down hurts performance find a speed that your gpu can handle and stay cool and lock it there. My 1080 goes from 1789 up to 2159 i lock it at 2159 because it gives higher and more stable framerates than letting it clock up and down all the time.
Derf, its psvr that supports 50....the tempest engine supports hundreds.....
Is there something you not telling us Hawk... is the SX not releasing after all???
@Aunbusgold. It is a problem and you still have compressed audio today in gaming consoles now. You always cut audio before anything else. Well most of the time. And it does effect the cpu. I work in the audio industry. You are not getting 48 sample rate with 192khz in digital audio. Not to mention they compress the hell out of it. They wouldn’t do this if this problem was solved a long time ago.
@cooperdnizzle Then you have a crap cpu get a threadripper or a 3950x and be done with it. I run 4 copies of a game at the same time for multiboxing . Run my audio at the same time while watching a stream on a second screen on a 8 core /16 core cpu you are doing something wrong.
@IRetrouk You are correct. So Tempest can in fact handle hundreds of audio channels at once. However accroding to Dolby, Atmos can also handle hundreds of audio channels but too many audio channels makes for a cacophony of sounds that becomes overbearing. Direct from Dolby.....As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of simultaneous objects. That being said, we fall back on sage advice from developers of some of the first Atmos games: objects are a fantastic tool, but restraint should be shown with respect to the number of objects active at any time. Too many objects in motion can create a confusing soundscape.
So you go from not enough sound sources to too many?😂 shit man, that's some great spinning you are doing, keep up the good work👌
@aunbusgold. You are missing the point completely. It’s developed like that. I work in front of an ssl all day which is a two million dollar console, No matter what you do you are getting artifact compression. Losses compression, with audio files down sampled, and very very much lower frequency response than what is actually possible. You don’t not understand what I’m talking about and referring to. Showing again that people just talk out of there butt
@cooperdnizzle Well im on Pc not my problem my dac does 32 bit 384000 Hrz studio quality sound.
I'm calling it now, the PS5 will have a CPU advantage compared to XSX, because Sony has coprocessors for decompressing and tempest freeing CPU resources. The PS5 might have more CPU headroom for games to use.
The SX has dedicated audio processing also. It just was not as heavily discussed as Tempest. https://news.xbox.com/en-us... "Project Acoustics – Incubated over a decade by Microsoft Research, Project Acoustics accurately models sound propagation physics in mixed reality and games, employed by many AAA experiences today. It is unique in simulating wave effects like diffraction in complex scene geometries without straining CPU, enabling a much more immersive and lifelike auditory experience. Plug-in support for both the Unity and Unreal game engines empower the sound designer with expressive controls to mold reality. Developers will be able to easily leverage Project Acoustics with Xbox Series X through the addition of a new custom audio hardware block." "Spatial Audio – Spatial Audio delivers deeply immersive audio which enables the player to more accurately pinpoint objects in a 3D play space. With full support for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Windows Sonic, Xbox Series X has custom audio hardware to offload audio processing from the CPU, dramatically improving the accessibility, quality and performance of these immersive experiences." It also uses DirectStorage, which will free up a large amount of CPU time. "DirectStorage – DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well."
@ Visceral Mark Cerny didn't go into alot of detail as far as the 8 CU's surrounding the GPU, but he did state that the GPU has 12 channels where 4 of those channels are dedicated to the I/O setup. My guess is the other 8 channels are for the 8 surrounding CU's. I just think there are things being held back when it comes to both consoles. I'll just say this though...PS5 might not end up being the weakling some people seem to think.
@stuna1 Microsoft is way better at software than sony they have always adjusted how much of the software affected the cpu and lowered it over the consoles lifespan.
@visceral Lmao You do realize that the xsx has separate processors for compression and decompression also and a separate audio chip........ You really should look at the competition more if your going to make comments. Factually the only thing ps5 has going for it over the xsx is the ssd i/o
Xbox has dedicated audio chip as well it is not handled by the CPU. They started that on the current gen because devs where told them having to dedicate an entire thread to audio is hurting games and having software handle audio is too taxing. PS4 has a dedicated audio chip as well.
@IRetrouk No, it was more to point out why people didn't realize Atmos could do hundreds of audio channels at once. The fact of the matter tempest isn't doing anything that isn't already being done. Microsoft's project acoustic is a much more realistic approach to sound. I'm more curious about what DTS is doing though. Their new DTS X support for headphones is insane and even puts Atmos to shame. The future is bright for audiophiles.
No, you tried to make a point, it was false, then tried to change the meaning of what you said, failed again and are now changing what you ment again. 128 is not hundreds... tempest is doing a hell of a lot more than just hundreds of sounds, so yeah, tempest is doing things that havent been done yet, we dont know which will be better yet, neither is fully released...
"The fact of the matter" then tells a blatant lie. lol
Not that surprising.
Dont tell that to these people. They'll crucify you
Except for the people liking your comment it seems. Most of us are having no issue with the fact these consoles will both do just fine.
Just want to get my hands on em now, the 3d audio is going to be amazing, cant wait to see how they use it with racing games.
I havent been able to find this anywhere but I imagine this wont work with voice actors? I always find the quality of sound recordings during conversation to be lackluster especually in open worlds with varying environments. RDR2 handled this neatly with dual recordings with a near/far conversation but it still sounds very studio like...
I'm honestly not sure, that's a good question though, I would assume they can place a sound source anywhere, hopefully someone talks about this or brings it up.
Put on good headphones, search Google for 3d audio, check some samples, tucker zone should be good. Then tell me if you liked it or not.
@angh, that doorknock actually made me look😂👏👌 ;
I think the difference hear (ba dun tish) is that we aren't just talking placement of sound in a 3D space, yes for dialogue , footsteps ect... but what was mentioned which gets my interest in mentioning rain drops... It seems its not just the SFX file, whether a sample whichever codec, but just like Raytracing, each drop , a hundred or more points , will each have there own DSP function applied..... I guess the best analogy i can come up with is like comparing 360 degree video on a VR headset, as to a computer modelled 3D environment ..... Trust me, that aint dolby atmos.... Also , not saying MS dont have this either, but understand we still dont know the potential of whats being delivered here......
A sentiment that has been echoed time and time again by people who would know better yet the armchairs want to tout tflop difference like it matters. I'm gonna side with the developers on this one, multiplat games will look the same.
That's just the advantage of being the market leader no 3rd party dev will make their game look better on the less popular console even though they could.
From my understanding one will load a bit faster other will have a bit better frame rates.
Just wait on actual results. Until then you'll read a lot of hypothesis on n4g.
Different framerates are less likely than slightly different resolutions in my opinion. I expect more games to go with locked framerates and dynamic resolutions next gen. That's mostly because the resolution changes won't be as noticable when approaching 4k while an unstable framerate is quite apparent especially on TV sets that don't support VRR. The PS5 and Xbox Series X are close enough in terms of GPU capabilities that there should never be a scenario where one runs a game at 60fps while the other only gets 30fps with all else being equal. So unless we see a lot of games with unlocked framerates I expect the vast majority of multiplatform games to perform pretty much identically. To be fair though, unlocked framerates might become much more common with VRR capable TVs becoming mainstream. Exclusives are another matter though. I wouldn't be surprised if PS5 exclusives go for max visual fidelity while Xbox exclusives prioritize higher framerates, especially during the cross gen phase. With that being said I hope there will be performance modes for most exclusives. As long as the framerate is GPU bound it shouldn't be too hard to implement a performance mode by lowering the resolution and potentially disabling or toning down some of the most taxing effects like ray traced reflections.
Well from your understanding you are wrong. Sorry 😐
That's your opinion.
Consoles are a whole and depend on how all components work together. Only real time testing matters.
The SSD and I/O ( the loading speed and pop in for some games and situations) will be the difference. Graphic wise it will be a marginal difference and most casual gamers won't even tell the difference except for the loading times. Since I already a good PC, PS5 is my console of choice because of their first party exclusives.
Totally true. Load times being 2 seconds vs 4 seconds seems so minor. But for most games that’s going to be the biggest difference.
Think of it like this. Horizon Forbidden West will not have any load times from what guerrilla said and that's a big AAA exclusive. The only way I would buy a series X if their exclusives don't go to PC
Simular to RTX Super 2070 hmmm..... I thought I heard claims of above RTX Super 2080 for one!? The point being made, a 14% to 18% teraflop difference is not even going to come close to telling the whole story. Technical wise Sony just has the upper hand! As tough of a pill it is to swallow. More advance I/O setup, more advance SSD, more channels, lower amount of CU's....but clocked significantly higher than competitors, 8 separate CU's each as powerful as the Jaguar chip in the PS4, Craken engine. This is just a small synopsis on the tech involved in PS5. Now look at what everyone focuses on when talking about Xbox series X!? Teraflops here, Teraflops there! Hell they just started talking up the SSD, imo it was simply to try to keep their footing. As far as Xbox series X I/O it's last gen and the console itself doesn't have as many channels and pipelines dedicated throughout the the system. Final note to take: PS5 has a slightly lower overall bandwidth, but it operates on unified memory. Xbox series X on the other hand has split memory with one pool operating at a significantly slower rate, therefore giving the system a variable throughput rate.
The RTX 2070 Super = 9.07TF The RTX 2080 reaches 10.1TF The RTX 2080 Super = 11.1TF I guess you could compare the PS5 with the RTX 2080 and the Xbox Series X with an overclocked RTX 2080 Super. But they are still different architectures so it is hard to compare. For example the 5700 XT is getting close to 2080 in some games. And RDNA 2 is supposed to be 50% more performant with same power or 33% more efficient. Seeing how we are still talking about consoles though I do believe both will opt for something in the middle like 25% more efficient and 15% more power. Claims that the consoles release with RTX 2080 and higher level of performance is thus correct. There is the assumption that the RTX 3080 would be 40% faster than the RTX 2080 when it releases later this year. Compared to the GTX 780 and PS4 at release this would mean that the next gen consoles are relatively much stronger compared to what is available on the market. With console optimizations this time whether it is PS5 or Xbox Series X we will be getting top of the line graphics and processors compared to any other generation I believe.
The point being made is just as you stated with different architecture it's a hard sell. In real world analysis just as this dev states, there are minor differences and from his observation they're more akin to a RTX Super 2070. For the most part developers looking into next gen hardware, most have completely thrown the Teraflops argument out the window, and from a gamers standpoint even this gen Teraflops weren't as big a deal as people made them out to be. It's just a catch phrase meant to hook uninformed individuals. Now stating what I wrote in the previous post, those are undeniable facts supported by multiple developers in different spaces of the industry. Many claim they understand the benefits of the SSD or what it can or cannot do, even when it's demostrated before their eyes, So much so that Microsoft are making the same claims. So why would both companies be saying the same thing!? Here why, it's true what's being said. But on a different note Microsoft understands their disadvantage there, hence teraflops, so called Raytracing advantages. Me personally I now game wise Sony 1st party will shine as they've always done.
There's more to GPU than TFs
Ppl are comparing the percentage difference in Xbox Series X gpu & PS5 gpu with Xbox locked at 12.1 & Sonys variable not locked at 10.4. Its a bigger difference than you think. Sony played a blinder showing the highest the PS5 could theoretically reach as your all falling for it. STUNA, "lower amount of CU's....but clocked significantly higher than competitor" you actually think that 36 CU's clocked slightly higher is going to beat the 56 of the Xbox Series X. Wow your clueless.
"Its a bigger difference than you think. Sony played a blinder showing the highest the PS5 could theoretically reach as your all falling for it." Every teraflops number is the "highest" the GPU could "theoretically" reach. 12.1 TF is not "locked" on XSX. The usage of the CUs are going to vary and typically not all are used at one time. That is why TF is only "theoretical". And this narrative about "variable" frequencies is just silly. The RTX 2080ti has a variable clock frequency and yet no one questions its 13.45 TF theoretical performance rating.
Obviously you don't understand the workload and clock cycles required to run 52 CU's as opposed 36 CU's. Also I said significantly higher, not slightly higher. Which bring us to the fact that everything I said hasn't been disproved. Actually it's readily available through multiple sources, but while were at it.....Where are your sources. You see the difference here is for the most part Sony is pretty much up front, hence a fanbase of almost 112 million PS4 owners. Whereas Microsoft not so much, hence a fanbase of if lucky 50 million! Mind you that's me being generous. It's almost heartbreaking to see how Microsoft has made the Xbox community complacent to the point that they'll believe everything they're told SMH.
What on Earth has Microsoft & Sonys sales numbers have to do with it? Razzer, check out digital foundry, they point out that Microsoft constantly emphasised Locked cpu gpu. DF explained why this is so important.
"Microsoft constantly emphasised Locked cpu gpu" lol.....oh, ok then. If Microsoft "emphasized" it then we shouldn't question it at all, now should we? So who is "falling for it", again?
"Its a bigger difference than you think. Sony played a blinder showing the highest the PS5 could theoretically reach as your all falling for it." Nope. You just didn't comprehend it. It's also much harder to fill more CU's efficiently.
@Easy Just do the math. It will most often just lock 10.3 Tflops. The situation where you’re power limited (not thermal) is going to be very rare. So the 18% advantage is a good metric. But of course there are situations where narrow-fast beats wide, and vice versa.
Sony is often accused of overstating what their hardware can do. Yet, for the past couple gens, they've consistently produced products that well outpaced what they stated the system can do. Maybe not the high resolutions and frame rates of the PS3, but Sony shows that the hardare is capable. So, no. It's not a bigger difference than we think. We know that based on results, that TF are only one part of the equation, and it's not even an equation, just a potential benchmark that could be reached assuming everything works just right. A super fast card in a slow system is held back by the system itself. Not that XSX is a slouch, just showing that TF are not the only determining factor. I said that at the beginning of this gen too, in defense of MS lower TF rating for the X1. When it comes to blinders, MS has made it into an art form for it's fan boy warriors. Sony has it's share of marketing spin, but Phil is a master at it. That's why you're all still "waiting for it" to show what you keep saying it can be.
hmmm.. Lets take this into consideration.......... All the PC crowd say Intel in better for gaming, less cores, but generally higher clocked.... So , if a Intel with half the core count and higher clock in comparison to an AMD? Well, Im just saying CU count and speeds maybe something to factor in? Just a thought.
The biggest difference is gonna be FPS better ray tracing and probably higher settings. The game ps5 should be able to do 4k no issues
Higher settings? Yeah okay lol.
Soon you will all see the power of the X
I see what you did there. +1
Yeah yeah. But what about the Y? And don't get me started on the Z. I hear they're all under a big W.
Both consoles have around a 16-17% delta in power. To put it into perspective, the PS4 vs XB1 was a 40% difference and the PS4 Pro vs X1X was a 30% difference flipped. There will be a slight advantage, but people expecting 30FPS PS5 titles to magically run at 60FPS on the XSX are setting themselves for a disappointment.
Would you rather have 17% of a $1000 or 17% of $100,000.
The main difference is Sony exclusives, so day one ps5.
Xbox series what?
Come November gamers are gonna see the difference and feel the difference. I’d imagine u will see the resolution debate gi away but it’s not out of the question to expect a few games may use dynamic resolution on the ps5 and be native on the sx. But you will see the Xbox push more than double the FPS better ray tracing and run games at higher settings with extra bells and whistles. Probably some games on the ps5 won’t have ray tracing at all . I’m not a fan boy I love PlayStation but they messed up this go around