The Last of Us 2 Director Neil Druckmann recently explained why the game not only had an incredibly strict review embargo, but also why the team decided to change certain aspects about the trailers.
They lied in the trailers, made us think Joel would play a bigger part. Misleading marketing to be frank, but now we know they have an agenda with their games at least.
They didn't lie. They can't not show joel in the trailers. That would give away the story. People are so butt hurt about little things. Its a STORY...not real. Don't like it write your own. Make your own game. When you buy a game you are entitled to play it thats it. You have no say in character progression or level design. Get over yourselves.
You dont know what you're talking about. They actually switched out/replaced characters in the game with Joel in the trailers and used aged Joel in flashback scenes that have young Joel in the game, all to make it seem like Joel was part of a greater plot.
@Ristul That kind of thing happens all the time in promotional material. For instance do you have any idea the amount of movie trailers that use footage that never happens in the actual movie, or use footage where characters have been added or removed from the actual scene? Just a recent example off the top of my head the newest avengers movie had Thor removed from trailer scenes etc. It is misleading, but at the same time they are trying to keep aspects of the story under wraps.
Johnny: dumbest post i have read.. make your own game? is that your solution and all you have to say? I have seen nothing about this game, but if they show Joel at every trailer they released then yes, it is misleading and terrible communication from ND. game is boring AF.. it is TLOU 1.5, much worse executed than the first one.. yes, joel not being part of it is a huge letdown, especially without answers. Dina is ugly, dumb and useless AF... the most useless sidekick i have seen. in the first game you could feel the relationship Joel the mentor and Ellie the little girl where she grows and learns skills overtime. This one is bland, a massive disappointment so far.. maybe things will change later but i am afraid it would be too little too late.
@bouzebbal What are you talking about? Joel was in the very first teaser trailer, and many people speculated he was a vision/apparition/figment of Ellie's imagination because of the presentation of his character. They hinted straight away at Joel's fate. The second trailer was at PGW featuring the then unnamed Abby (along with Lev and Yara). Joel was nowhere to be seen. The 3rd trailer was the barn dance/first gameplay segment demo. Joel was nowhere to be seen in this trailer. Please do your research and come with facts before trying to discredit someone's work.
Bro, they mislead players with deceptive editing and flat out using models that weren’t even in certain shown scenes, or models that just didn’t exist at all. Stop corporate slaving.
I couldn’t agree more , There’s much worse things to get upset about. They did the same with the first game and uncharted 4. It’s a way to mislead players I don’t like it ether but it’s not unheard of in the industry, and the whole game is about Joel! who he is ,and why this happened so he has prob the biggest part in the story still , yes I know he’s not playable they did tell us that from day one.It would have been a lot worse if he wasn’t in the game atall from that point on. I’m around 17 hours in and I’m loving it to be honest really don’t get all the hate .Theres an awful lot of jumping on the band wagon by people who havnt even played the game. Don’t get me wrong it could change as i havnt finished it yet. Most of the flaws iv heard like not respecting Joel’s character and the games has no soft moments like the first is clearly false. Everyone is entitled to there opinion but it needs to be an honest one.
Mike like i said, i havent seen anything since the very first reveal. but in case they kept showing him in every trailer like he'll be a big part of the game would have been misleading.. if that isn't the case then i see no problem. the rest of my post was only my feedback after a few hours of gameplay
"game is boring AF.. it is TLOU 1.5, much worse executed than the first one.." https://www.youtube.com/wat... - "waaaaaaaaaaaaah iTs dAh lAsT oF uS 1.5"
'like i said, i havent seen anything since the very first reveal. but in case they kept showing him in every trailer like he'll be a big part of the game would have been misleading.' So you may have that used the same notion or thinking in reverse had you seen Joel's clear omission from the trailers that came after. You could say it was a bait and switch or just understand they didn't want to give the plot away so it was more slight of hand. People really do seek the silliest things to get wound up about sometimes. I was more shocked but what happened in the game than a trailer. . . . Priorities
There is an interview with Neil from Spoilercast, go check it out. Neil specifically mentioned they did on purpose to not give the story away. Please don't assume you know everything.
You can do that by excluding certain footage, not by missleading people.
They don't like that truth because it wrecks their "Naughty Dog deceived us" narrative. Expect them to simply ignore this.
Lololol really? How desperate of niel to explain away his incompetence🤣
They could have just used scenes that featured Joel though. They didn't have to fake scenes and present a narrative that doesn't exist. They've literally admitted to falsely advertising the game intentionally. That's not ok.
porkChop True and if it was EA or Ubisoft everyone would be grabbing their pitchforks and condemn them but since it's ND (or even if it was another beloved studio) it's ok to falsely advertise games for some people. For Neil to just flat out admit it just goes to show the level of impunity and lack of regulation the gaming industry has. No wonder that it has become an anti-consumer joke.
Just like how a game (forgot which one was it) a while ago showed a trailer with "gameplay" but it wasn't. It's unethical and breaks consumer rights by deception and omission.
They don't like that truth because it wrecks their "Naughty Dog is da best company evaarrrr" narrative. Expect them to simply ignore this.
@rex Tbh ND are one the best out there. And they've proven it. They stand alongside R*, Santa Monica as one of the best out there. But i swear some of you people are so entitled and whiny really. I mean so yeah they change things in the trailer. I mean if you remember the part where joel says "you think I'd let you do that on your own?".yeah they replaced him with another...my first reaction was "sneakey little bastards" and just continued from there. But you guys would love to make a mountain out of a mole huh?
Mgs2... classic that everyone loves. And raiden allot of players favourite character in the mgs series. People were pissed but the game was amazing. Mgs5 you dont even play as big boss technically if i remember correctly. Just a fake.
lmao. it's insane how whiny you people are. hilarious too.
Bunch of entitled babies
A lot of games have trailers that show different things from the actual release. This is nothing new.
Get a grip mate. From the very first trailer people were speculative of Joel even being alive. Where was this fake outrage when Metal Gear Solid 2 done the same thing? There's been a few games in the past that has done this but oh no, let's all jump on TLoU2 because it's the cool thing to do right now even though its easily one of the greatest games ever created. There is no agenda. It's a work of fiction. If you're upset that Ellie is gay then that's aye a hell of a lot more about yourself than someone who wrote a story.
This guy gets it. I suspected hard that joel was gunna die after the very first trailer. And i figured that moment of joel saying "didnt think id let you do this alone" was ellie imagining him later in the game after his death. It was obvious joel was dead or gunna die. Naughty dog gave us enough hints to get us prepared
MGS2 was released 19 years ago. Did Konami/Kojima deliberately mislead gamers as well?
I haven't finished it yet, but it was a welcome surprise. 100% sick of trailers ruining games and movie's. With mgs2, I didn't mind raiden was a good character, people didn't like playing as a 'girly man' then too. Just as stupid now as it was then. Glad ND had the balls the do this. Some.devs don't learn. Joel not being part is a letdown? Why!? I'll give you one. Aeirths death in ff7 ruined it! How dare they kill off a main character, I don't care how much it improved the emotional impact of the story and made the villain more personal. I wanted my little aerith to get a happy life :'(
Just seeing replies...I assume Some thing happens to ruin the plot later in the story? The complaints were around some sjw agenda? I assume that has nothing to do with Joel and Ellie being gay...later on the story has some big sjw agenda?? Right?? I never saw the spoilers, smart enough to avoid them If it is then that is just hilarious. Ellie being gay is the reason this got slammed just, well I can't put into words how much joy that would bring me. As kind of a funny side of humanity that still exists, particularly in US. I saw people in US congress arguing against face masks and 5g today. Lol.
If you didnt know joel was gunna die in the second game after all the trailers then i feel bad for you. It was clear as day.
Neil Basically says that when he experienced a twist such as MGS2 he thought it was awesome. He didn’t want to spoil the twist in part 2. A trailer shouldn’t reveal much about the game, I don’t get what people are complaining about. Do you want the trailers to reveal the entire narrative?
They shouldnt have shown joel at all in the trailers tbh
That’s basically the same as spoiling the game... There’s no winning with these people. You show joel and they call it manipulative marketing, you don’t show joel they’d know he dies early on..
hindsight is 2020. if they didn't show joel, then everyone would know he's dead. either way, whiny gamers would be whining.
We’re going to have another Rian Johnson aren’t we, every little thing explained to us over the next few years.
There's nothing wrong with Neil talking about a game that he directed which just came out after he invested half a decade of his life into it. Cop on, Foxtrot. You guys really are desperate to pin TLOU2 as a Last Jedi but as far as video-games go, it has far more in common with MGS2, right down to the structure of the game and the disparity between the critics response and some users with almost identical critiques. https://www.ignboards.com/t... And Druckmann wrote the script for the first game along with other Naughty Dog games that you probably love. He didn't just come along and mess with an existing franchise. It was his story all along. https://www.imdb.com/name/n...
@Lucas This game has more in common with The Last Jedi, and less in common with MGS2.
I love that people like to compare this game to Star Wars.. it’s ridiculous. The way movies and games are reviewed is vastly different. The last Jedi wasn’t review bombed it was actually disliked. Do me a favor. Name 1 game that scored in the 90s on metacritic by critics that wasn’t a good game? Sure sometimes there is disconnect with reviewers and critics but not like this, tlou2 was review bombed. The people who have played it, the vast majority love it. The critics weren’t bribed or blackmailed. It had a 96 on metacritic, there is NO game out there with a metacritic in the mid 90s that is less than great, find me 1 example.
The story is disliked by a large amount of people Just because you want to defend it don’t bullshit and say there’s some secret agenda and all the negative reviews are bots or people review bombing it for no reason. It’s very split like TLJ. White knights and journalists said the same for Star Wars, that everyone was a misogynist troll. We knew that wasn’t the case.
"don’t bullshit and say there’s some secret agenda and all the negative reviews are bots or people review bombing it for no reason" But this game IS being review bombing. No im not gonna say bots...just whiny little entitled kids who wanted the story to be told the way they want not the way ND wants. You know...like spoon feed them.
@outsider “ just whiny little entitled kids who wanted the story to be told the way they want” LOL that’s exactly how people defended the Last Jedi And you all try and make out it isn’t the same It’s denial at this point, I’ve never seen so much white knighting on here in my life
@-Fox "Just because you want to defend it don’t bullshit and say there’s some secret agenda and all the negative reviews are bots or people review bombing it for no reason. It’s very split like TLJ." You've been doing the same thing, since release, that you're accusing others of doing; making your 'I don't like it' argument and ignoring any opposing argument. Your self-righteous indignation is tiresome. The story is also liked by a large amount of people. Now what? Lol. How are you going to counter that one? Are you ever going to arrive at a point beyond 'I don't like it and I don't like it?' I won't hold my breath.
Foxtrot, I don't get you. You adamantly argue against it and argue against people who like it just the same way others adamantly argue for it against people who don't like it. Why is what they do a negative but what you do not? Aren't you all doing the same thing? In the end, it's just opinions, and you all present it as fact ("everyone loves, no one wants, gamers need, etc."). I don't get how you don't see how you are doing the exact thing about which you complain.
Or people can stop bitching about TLOU2 and use your brains to think, so they dont need to explain. Gaming fanbases sure can be toxic.
nah you are just looking for every little thing out there to proof your point. How about you stop caring what others think and let people enjoy what they enjoy.
Are you joking I’m not trying to stop them from enjoying it, I’m responding to a comment ONCE AGAIN attacking those who don’t as if they are a tiny minority, playing it down That’s my issue Those who enjoy the game can’t enjoy it without attacking those who can see the obvious flaws and issues with the game I mean you comment is pretty much “pot calling kettle”
@-Fox "I’m not trying to stop them from enjoying it, I’m responding to a comment ONCE AGAIN attacking those who don’t as if they are a tiny minority, playing it down" But you've expressed your disdain and defended those who dislike it as you do how many times now? How many more times must you express your disapproval, or "white knight" the people you agree with? From where I'm sitting, you're doing far more complaining than anyone else is praising or persecuting. "That’s my issue Those who enjoy the game can’t enjoy it without attacking those who can see the obvious flaws and issues with the game" Cool. Wanna know my issue? I can't come into a discussion about this game without seeing you and your ilk complain and tell us we're all wrong. And there ago again with your "obvious flaws and issues" opinion. You're doing great, Fox, keep it up. I'll be an "issue" for you as long as these discussions persist.
Wouldn't JJ Abrams be a more applicable comparison? Disney's Star Wars twitter account is still releasing lore-nuggets to explain away Rise of Skywalker's gaping holes.
The trailers were a masterclass of misdirection. I actually enjoyed how the story played out because I did not see that coming. We all thought we knew why Ellie was in the rampage but we didn't.
Imagine that! ND mislead viewers as to not spoil the story and it made the experience that much sweeter . What crazy concept. And here I thought they were just "pushing Druckmann's agenda". Seriously though, I just finished the game yesterday and am absolutely baffled as to why people are swarming like an angry internet mob. I thought it was great.
@SunGod I have to admit that seeing this whole thing unfold has been interesting. I was wondering whether certain Sony faithful here would break from Sony and put their politics first, or stand by Sony. The results have been interesting, and very mixed. Politics took precedence for certain individuals I never thought I'd see break from Sony in any way. Then there's the "His woke agenda" crowd. Then there's the "Muh Joel" crowd. Then there are the Xbox cats who rock the "Muh Joel" swag but don't give a crap about any aspect of the game and only desire to see it burn. They're absolutely loving this chaos.
I watch as little as possible trailers for the games I’m most hyped for. It allows me to make up my own mind once I finish the game. TLoU2 is one of the best games I’ve ever played in my entire gaming life. In great part because of the events of the story. There is a message there that no other medium can even possibly dream of properly conveying. In my view, anyone that has finished the game & are still focusing on the events rather than the message, have, well, missed the point.
Did you guys complain about the “fake” trailer with the Avengers? Should have the Hulk play a larger role because he was shown during the final battle-but had a tiny role? Did you walk out because Loki died 5 min into the film? I find the Last Of Us Part 2-meh. Story wise. But the way that you guys pretend to be butthurt is getting really annoying. Fake trailers happen all the time. Get over it and move on. No one owes you anything. They didn’t make the game specifically for you.
They told us you couldn't play as Ellie in the first game but that wasn't true either. I say good on them for playing loose with the truth if it helps the story beats have more impact. You're right people don't deserve to know everything just because they asked the question.
Exactly; nobody owes them anything. They believe they're entitled to their idea of "Joel deserving better" whatever that may be. Most of the primary characters in this game pay dearly in some way or another; that's what I witnessed. It's real tragedy, and some people can't appreciate tragedy especially if it's at the expense of beloved characters. It's passionate because they care deeply about the characters, and I'm sensitive to that - I love them too and I get it! But, it's also shortsighted. The death of beloved a beloved character can be powerful and impactful, and give that character great significance. Joel's tenderness for Ellie (showcased in the museum) juxtaposed with his particularly brutal and violent death really elevated Joel for me. It just made me love and appreciate him even more. He nurtured Ellie the way a young girl in that world needed to be nurtured; with love and lesson. He played his part and it was beautiful.
Talking about Joel's death. I honestly believe that fans would have been ok with this twist had it been handled better. As it stands this part of the game is so abrupt when it is the part that deserves the most attention , for the story as well as the fans. There was so much missed opportunity for Joel to have a bittersweet good bye moment with Ellie and Tommy. We should have seen Joel get tortured and also play as him while being tortured. There's alot that could have been done but the point is that it all started quickly and ended quickly. Instead Joel's death felt rushed out the door. That is the problem with those that genuinely have issues with the story. It felt rushed out the door. Like I said before, the game needed to have more time in development for the story and presentation specifically. If it meant another delay then so be it.
I think the abruptness actually serves it well; people are taken very quickly at times and without warning and there's often not much time (if any at all) to say goodbye. Life can hit us in the face in so many ways mercilessly, and cruelly fast. The contrasting imagery I was referring to did wonders for Joel's ultimate potency as a character in my personal, humble opinion. I thought the flashbacks and Joel himself were made even more powerful due to his death and the specific nature of it. Joel's death may have been early in the game's timeline, but it didn't feel rushed especially when you add the later events. I really liked the writing; that's all I can say.
Ah yes, the museum scene. This is another example of effort being mismanaged. In my opinion this scene was totally redundant. We already knew that Joel and Ellie had a close bond. We played an entire game with those two. No need to beat us over the head with more of it. Instead they could have used that effort for Joel's death scene. Or keep both but make the death better. Yeah sure death can be swift but Joel's death was meant to be anything but swift. Abby said she was going to make it a long death but the game contradicts itself and makes it swift instead. And also it's not just this scene that feels rushed. the story is rushed through the whole game. And this is a game my friend, you can do anything you want with it don't give me some excuse like we'll uh in real life bla bla bla .
"And this is a game my friend, you can do anything you want with it don't give me some excuse like we'll uh in real life bla bla bla ." Do not disingenuously misrepresent my argument - I've been polite with you. That is not what I meant. Terrible spin-job. People can die abruptly and horrifically, and that's how this played out. Joel and Ellie weren't given 'one last time' and okay, it's tough, sure, but it does the story credit. The museum was not "mismanaged effort" rather it conveyed, spectacularly, what a dear figure Joel was to Ellie. And, again, that juxtaposition. Brilliant. Although we knew about their friendship, I'd hardly call the museum wasted or a missed opportunity. But, that's me. Abby didn't exactly make it quick. Sure, it wasn't a scourge and crucifixion, but it was bashing his head in to the point of sure suffering yet not death. Joel was in agony, and Ellie was in agony at the sight. Then, everybody suffered.
I'm not being impolite either. I'm keeping you on track for the topic at hand which is how they decided to tell the story, not to debate how many ways a person can die. If anything that was weak spin on your behalf because it has nothing to do with the topic.
You're keeping 'me' "on track" are you? Alright then, my mistake, lol.
@veneno I actually felt that Joels death was handled well for the purpose that it gives the player. Which is hunt down the killers and make them pay. If it was handled better it would’ve given Ellie closure and listen taken Maria’s side and stayed back in Jefferson. But nope. She was full of rage and determined to kill the WLF-Ellie is the player after all.
Hi Fran Think of it this way. In TLOU1 you truly felt the loss of Sarah, Joel's real daughter. Why? Because they took their time and gave the opening of the game this twist that you did not see coming where you play as Sarah. You play as the victim. Sarah is the entire basis of the Last of Us story and they gave it its diligence. This diligence was not given to Joel's death , which is the entire basis of TLOU2. It feels empty. I feel that the main reason is that they juggled so much story on just that one part. They had to reintroduce the characters from the first game plus introduce about 12 more characters all at the beginning. It drew too much attention away from Joel and his death. Sarah's death felt intimate whereas Joel's felt lost and empty. And that pretty much describes why many people feel let down with TLOU 2s story. It tries to juggle so many things but never intimately engages the player like the first game. The first game had focus. The sequel loses focus. Great plot foundation, just too many fires going on at once.
Yeah the first game plot is better. This one is more obtuse. I too prefer more focused stories-but that’s just our opinions. Also the fact that I am a complete psychopath and didn’t care for Sarah, or Joel either way. Heh. One thing that I enjoyed from the first game was that I felt that I was playing from the “bad guy’s” perspective. Normally Joel’s characters are delegated to antagonists rather than protagonists. So I thought that was cool back then. That even bad guys can be “like able” characters. The anti-hero was a popular trope around that time too (like GTA, Gears, etc). But I felt that TLOU was the best portrayal of a “bad person.” Since inherently people aren’t necessarily evil. They are simply scared, ignorant, or selfish. Gameplay I will have to give it to TLOU 2-specially for a psychopath like me. It took longer to get to the good gameplay parts in the sequel, but they are much better. I like silently sneaking up and killing someone. Then hide and throw a bottle at the dead body to get the other person’s attention and let them see their dead friend and wail in anguish. Lol!
There was no need to be misleading, they could have just showed actual footage of Joel from the game. The way it was handled was deliberately misleading. For the people defending this decision: Imagine if MS used footage of the cloud destruction tech video in the launch trailer for Crackdown 3, and then when people complained they turned around and said "surprise, we subverted your expectations!" Is that the future you want from AAA publishers?
wou, we just went to the moon and back. wow. Yeah put in footage of Joel of him in the snow, and snow only, because EVERYONE would have known, oh its just snow, so he then is no longer part of it. bye....
No he's in the opening scene + flashbacks etc plenty of opportunities to use brief clips, but I think I know why they did this with the trailer. It was to trick the people who had saw the leaks into thinking the leaks might be false. SPOILERS The leaks showed Joel dying early on, but the trailer shows an older looking Joel not willing to let Ellie go on a journey alone , suggesting he's alive later in the game , which was a lie.
Faboyism is runnning rampant on n4g. Cant voice displeasure of certain games without a having being hounded left and right over how dumb, stupid or whiny your comment is. Even properly explaining why the game isnt very good your met with the same retort like a boken record hoping something as large as naughty dog might look their way and praise them for defending their honor on a video game news site. Here's a little tip, neither ND or Sony are affected by a bunch of strangers being displeased with their newest and latest hyped up game on the market. Tlou2 will sell millions, you can go back to bed knowing your favorite videogame dev/company will not harmed in any way.
It will also get GOTY. And GOTC(game of the century)