The Last of Us Part II taught me that we, as audiences, do not own the narrative. We may want stories to go our way, but that does not mean they should.
Of course we as the audience don't "own" a narrative, but then neither should a writer or a creative expect only accolades towards their work. More so when building upon prior established works which by default have expectations.
When you start with a good story. Keep it good. Don’t throw in some bs to be “cool/woke” or whatever. Stay true to your story. They tainted a classic they way hangover 2 tainted hangover. If your going to sequel a good story don’t blow it. Druckman game of thrones-Ed this game.
I don't necessarily agree with your Thrones analogy because we were warned. But this? I would compare this to Star Wars Ep VIII. Druckmann is the Rian Johnson of game development. This is nothing more than hijacking, And I mean the way some hijackers take planes for political reasons rather than money. In this case it was for social reasons.
I'm only about 7 hours in to the game and I have such conflicting thoughts. The game is an absolute masterpiece in every way, but they well and truly f*cked the narrative literally from the beginning. I couldn't really care less about what's to come story wise, which is such a shame as technically, I think it's without doubt the greatest game I've ever played in every single other department. Subverting expectations to the detriment of everything now seems to be the biggest cliché in entertainment these days unfortunately. I think Druckmann spent too much time hanging out with Rian Johnson and D&D.
15 hrs in...man what did ND and Druckman in particular were thinking? It's as if they made it their mission to take the established story from part 1 and erase it from existence just to prove a point... I'm f..ing disappointed with the story and so sad it's tied to a masterpiece of a game... Damn.
Apparently the person that wrote the last of us is not the same that wrote the last of us 2
By all count the man pushed Amy Henning out of Naughty Dog. Indeed, cause he joined the company after the fact of TLOU that Elly became lesbian in DLC.
"Indeed, cause he joined the company after the fact of TLOU that Elly became lesbian in DLC." He's been at ND since 2004. And he wrote and directed TLOU. Henning had absolutely nothing to do with TLOU.
Dru Khan wrote and directed the last of us with Bruce Straley who has left. I feel like his departure has perhaps removed a moderating voice of reason? That or druckman was indoctrinated between writing the first game and this.
You are being or calling everyone stupid assuming that the "controversy" around tlou2 has something to do with the game itself. Everyone knows that this is just the reaction of the hateful alt-right because of the lgbt representation. These boys were triggered in their safe space, which were video games, and now they are reacting, as every reactionary supremacist does. Trying to misinform about this topic is innocence or complicit in these criminals. Choose your side.
Uh no that’s the scapegoat, people don’t like it cause the story is bad and ruins the characters from the first game.
"Don't misinform these people, let me do it instead!"
What's going on with TLOU2 is more about social engineering than any alt-right "reaction". If anything, it more a counter-example of extremist liberalism versus extremist conservatism. An lgbt "ally" showing intolerance for Heteronormativity under the guise of promoting acceptance. That said, what you're seeing is more a reaction to bad writing. The attempted exploitation of a prior established work.
Your username fits you... loco.
"Everyone knows that this is just the reaction of the hateful alt-right because of the lgbt representation." I genuinely thought you were being sarcastic. Are you actually serious? Do you know the actual positions of the alt-right? And why is there no protest of Yoko Taro's games? They have plenty of LGBT characters in Nier games. Last I checked the trailer of the upcoming remake of Nier Replicant with an intersex character as well as another gay character had about 38:1 Like to Dislike ratio. Did Yoko Taro just do a great job hiding it from the alt-right? I can't believe people actually say shit like this.
@AKS When a japanese developer inserts things like that. You don't get the sense it was done to appeal to some social political reason. When you start seeing rainbow flags, the word bigot, PoC characters everywhere, and more then one bi/gay relationship, that's how you can tell the difference.
That was the point of the example. It's not just having LGBT characters in the game as was previous asserted. Most people have no problem with that.
honestly couldn't give a shit about ellie being a lesbian etc. I do however having completed the game have serious issues with joels death and how out of character he had to be behaving for it to make sense. SPOILERS Then making us play as his killer for the second half of the game. I get what they were trying todo but feel you have to be a simpleton not really paying attention for it to work. I mean through playing as her you learn that her father was a hypocritical arse that wouldn't have killed her for a vaccine but was fine to kill ellie, that she supported his planned actions, we know already joel gives him chance to step aside- he grabs a scaple and confronts joel so frankly he got what he deserved at that point, anyone who played first and picked up the recordings would know how small a chance there acruslly was of creating a vaccine, anyone who knows anything about vaccine development would know how much of a longshot it would have been. Abby had actually found a peaceful, happy life she chose to leave that and go after joel, joel saves her life and that changes nothing in terms of her plans she doesn't even show more mercy as a consequence, she views having not killed ellie and Tommy as if she'd done them a favour and is tbqh a complete psychopath- its firmly established she is one of the WLF's top seraphite murderers and just all round shitty person making you play as her is one thing making you fight ellie... that was a step too far imo. Oh also erm last I checked if someone were to be a bigot whilst I'd prefer they reassess how they treat people that are different to themselves and not have an issue with gay people. It is not a crime to have those views. If they aren't being violent towards others or in some way discriminating in their day to day lives they are perfectly entitled to prefer content they disagree wirh not bein their games and to not buy the games and criticise them accordingly. To lable them all alt-right is simply ridiculous as is to say that it makes them a criminal. By doing so you simply show you are about as intolerant of others views and beliefs as they are. By all means call it out and argue against it and try to change their minds but I assure you calling them things like alt right wont change their views, infact you will most likely just intrench them.
You should watch "Misery"
I’m half way through the game but I still have no idea what the fuss has been about and how it relates to SJWs. Is it that Ellie is a lesbian? We already knew that... Is it that a woman is (or seems to be) the antagonist? Please tell me that’s not it. If it’s something at the end of the game then I’ll reserve judgement.
No real way to discus the issue here without spoilers, so... Think the only thing I can talk about, as someone actually not into the game/series yet repulsed at the display of authoritative arrogance, ND acting like they've written gospel, since it happened early is how Joel, a hardened survivalist, is easily taken out. That TLOU2 "violence overall" theme adds nothing to regain/retain personal humanity at the possible cost of humanity story of the first. There may also be some literal self insertion by the lead director...
@godmars During that scene I was, not like this, not like this...I couldn't believe they did him like that, so unceremoniously. It was a massive fuck you to one of the most loved characters in gaming and I fuckin hated it.
Maybe if you have expectations you should stick to reading Harry Potter books
Yeah, bro. People should totally feel stupid if they expected Naughty Dog to construct a decent story. At least we know better now, huh?
"More so when building upon prior established works" That they also created.....
that the point,
Stories in games are going to get boring because of this controversy. Devs will just play it safe every game's plot will just be protagonists defeats antagonist and they live happily ever after.
Some people don't want to do any thinking when they play, for them the more mindless the better. Sad!
This cycle of revenge story has been done for ages, it does nothing new other than its disregard character development.
You described FF7. People played "boring" RPGs back in the day for the stories.
I would argue the opposite. Druckman made a boring game by twisting it's story to make sure it checks every single "woke agenda" box. If anything stories should get better because characters in works of fiction will be given more respect in the way their development respects their pre established stories and ignore political agendas. Druckman did this shit just so every single reviewer would feel bad criticising the story for fear of SJWs. Its twisted but brilliant and I think he is a calculating idiot rather than a proper story teller for it.
He was also sneaky with the "I want to kill Joel early on but I don't want people to refund so kill joel 3h in so people can't get a refund", the sales numbers will include people that had to keep the game against their will
Makes literally no sense lol. Yall are really this mad that the main character is lesbian? Like i guess that would NEVER happen in real life. Yall are so sad letting politics run your life to the point of not enjoying a GAME. Bet you guys haven't played. And even though you guys didn't do a spoiler alert like the first game an early impactful death sets up the rest of the story. IF you really played it and even with it spoiled him dying was still hard very impactful. But again you guys haven't played it juat wanna spoil and put out some political bs to criticize a game lol how sad. Are you reall this scared of females? Never how much "sjw" bs with walking dead when it was the most watched show on TV. But now sad old xbox fanboys have nothibg else to do but roast a game because. . . Lesbians. . . Not because it sucks not because of bugs or because its boring. . . But lesbians. . . .
@zevasur Refunds on Playstation? What dimension do you live in?
@jukins If you think the frustration with the story has anything to with lesbians you really have no idea what is going on. Most people disappointed were huge fans of the first game and based of the DLC had already figured out Ellie was a lesbian and I never ever heard anyone complain about it. If you are sincere in trying to understand the frustration you should either play the game yourself or at the very least watch the entire story on youtube. Compare that to the first game's meaningful story, character development and character motivations and you will see why this game is a shitshow in contrast to the first game.
Yeah, that's basically it. They want G.I. Joe and Ninja Turtles. They don't like impact and severity. They don't want meaningful characters. The world of TLOU is merciless and severe, and some people can't take it. They can't take it. They want more Uncharted because it's lighthearted. Everyone always makes it. This game, really, made the character of Joel potent, powerful, and effectual. When you play through the game, you'll realize why and how. I'm endeared to Joel too, but this story and writing are excellent, and he's more meaningful as a character due to his fate. I know some people never will or can, see it that way. Hopefully I'm wrong
You'll never get your answers, because what we have are outraged man-child like gamers, who don't have the emotional maturity to remove themselves from the subject and look at things from an emotional sound point of view. All they can see is I didn't like what happened here, and for that I hate it. Rather than I didn't like this, but I now understand why these events are happening. I dodged all the rumors so when I played the game I didn't know what was going to happen, but I could already sense something was off about one of the characters (and did suicide on my playthrough a couple of times, because I sensed something wrong with them lol). And then when you meet up with the other 2, and after seeing how the game started out, it had already clicked in my mind what was probably going to happen and why this game was about revenge. So once it did I wasn't shocked, sad, but not shocked. I can't really go into details on why those things happened without spoiling it, but the reality is, and what people are missing is, in the world of the Last of Us EVERYONE has limited time, and actions have consequences especially in a world with no law governing the people.
👆 he gets it👏👏
Those who talk down to others from home-made pedestals are obnoxious to say the least so don't be one. most gamers love complex stories and most CAN take it, what is concerning is the use of gaming as a platform to shoehorn political views and then expect everybody to automatically and silently agree and accept those views.. or else. This won't work.
Please explain what political views they have shoehorned into the game? You dont even have to buy and play the game let alone accept or agree with anything, much less forcefully.
I highly doubt it. Notice games like these don't come around often. Games that polarize the audience and push the envelope on what can be in a game. This game already recieved critical success. The financial succes is sure to follow. ND doesn't care if the game is polarizing. They clearly knew they would be hitting nerves with many people. If there had actually been worries from ND or Sony the game would have been canned or altered. But as you can see the game is here. And ND isn't the only studio willing to push the boundaries without fear of repercussion.
The thing is that they're not 'really' pushing boundaries or taking a 'risk' with their writing. They're simply writing what they want, like, you know, any writer would. They shouldn't give a crap about polarization either - they should simply tell the story that they want to tell. If something is polarizing that's fine, because there are things far worse than polarizing writing, such as, I don't know, not being able to write what you want because you could be criticized. It's just so ridiculous. Let's all demand that sequels and follow ups do what WE want them to do. To hell with the writers. LOL. To add: I don't really look at this as a sequel. I look at it as one story, because it is.
It’s not about playing anything safe, it’s about attempting to subvert expectations in a twisted awful way. The story isn’t brave, it’s not doing anything groundbreaking. It’s plain and simply awful.
wasn't the original TLOU almost unanimously praised as an exceptional game and we have tons of other great games? you're just turning your head away form the real problem or trying to turn others, it won't work.
Or maybe they'll learn that writing a story that respects established characters and makes sense is important. Stars Wars latest trilogy completely disrespected Luke to the point that he was unrecognizable. He was far from being the same Luke we knew and loved from the original trilogy and many Stars Wars fans hated the latest trilogy because of it. ND did the same mistake. The Joel we knew from the original game would never let himself be ambushed the way he was but the character had to be changed to fit the narrative of the story when it should be the other way around. Want to kill Joel to get the narrative going? Fine but do it in a way that fits and respects who Joel was. Also the narrative's central theme falls completely apart due to a an insulting ending that makes no sense whatsoever. ND or better yet, Druckmann killed one of the best video game characters in recent years to tell a story that was done many times before, done much better and in a way that didn't insult the intelligence of the people that experienced such stories be it through movies or books.
It's one thing to have plot twists and turns but having key characters of your story get killed unceremoniously, well.... I think the GOT backlash should have taught everybody a valuable lesson. Apparently Naughty Dog and Neil Druckmann didn't get the memo.
Maybe try focusing on the actual gameplay, and leave the story telling for books and movies?
1) If that happens its only because publishers take the wrong lesson from the backlash. If you are suggesting that fanbases should refrain from fair critiquing just because the suits might over compensate on the next go around then your suggestion is ignorant at best 2) the story of TLoU2 IS boring. Ellie's side of the game is decent enough in terms of gameplay but once Abby's story starts, the game turns into a massive slog. With how ineffective their attempt to humanize Abby was after so strongly establishing her as the villain, Abby's entire campaign lacks a proper motivating factor for playing. This is some serious amateur story telling we're talking about here. The one bright spot in her entire section being the sniper bridge segment, but even then, for all the wrong reasons. I'd elaborate but I can't without spoilers. And that ending, bro. Talk about hot trash.
If you think having gay central characters is trying to be woke, you're a moron and it says more about you than the game. Straight character = No agenda, Gay character = Woke agenda? That's literally what you're saying. So no game can feature gay characters or it will suffer the same backlash from a vocal minority of backwards inbreds. Jesus Christ, I thought this was 2020. Someday you'll be left in the past, where you belong.
LGBT isn’t the problem. TLOU had lgbt and it was fine. It is the piss poor, plot hole ridden, “wanna-be deep”, story. The game took the greatest story in gaming and followed it up with a turd. The outrage is because reviews aren’t calling it out. The story is trash.
Bullshit. The story is just as good as that of part one. I prefer part 2 even, so what are you talking about?
Another butthurt snowflake. Don’t worry lil dude. You will live to see another day. Continue playing fort nite
Greatest story in gaming... right. TLOU was an okay story, but nothing about it was surprising or unique. It copied what so many infection-esque apocalyptic stories in the past have done. One of the most overrated games in gaming, for sure though.
thank you I just don't get it. . These sad ass kids (really sad grown men) are really hating this game because lesbians like theres never been a lesbian couple anywhere ever. And especially given the circumstances in the game finding a companion isn't exactly easy. These are people who let politics run their life and its sad they let it come to the point to where they'd troll the internet constantly repeating sjw sjw sjw sjw because. . . . Lesbians
The hell you coming from?! being a master comment, nothing in the article touches on that crap.
There seem to be two camps attacking the game: those who accuse it of being "woke" (bleh, whatever...so she's a lesbian, so what) and those who accuse it of having amateurish writing (I agree with that).
The problem isn't the narrative. Its the repetition. Get off your high horse telling us "we don't get it"
Pretty much this. When attaching a sequel to ANYTHING there is a pedigree the fanbase expects. When you upset that pedigree do not be surprised that your reputation is tarnished as a result. Otherwise, do not call it a sequel if you want to do something different. The literary world is literally rife with alternative definitions for different ways of storytelling. Look at Star Wars Ep. VII : Great movie but a copy. Ep. VIII: Devisive. Few loved it many hated it for damaging the pedigree it spawned from. Ep. IX: Pretty much conclusive that the franchise is damaged by Disney. This is a great example of how disrespecting the pedigree of what made something great can damage a reputation.
The story we were shown is drastically different than what was released Joel and Ellie were supposed to go on a revenge mission TOGETHER this can be deduced by the fact that in the reveal of TLOU2 Joel comes in and she tells him she is going to kill them all or in the trailer he grabs her and asks you think I'd let you do this on your own? ND shoehorned an SJW storyline filled with plotholes that drastically altered the story for the worse and it shows. The game is mediocore at best and pandering at worse.
Everybody knew immediately that joel was gunna die. I suspected it since day one joel trailer.
That was the main rumor for months and months, plus how many times did the writers and devs say this was ellies story? It saddened me what happened, but it was expected and true to the world of the last of us, shits harsh.
Wrong. He had this whole thing planned out from the start. He just didn't want to reveal it and kept misleading with the trailers. The leaks ruined all of that. *Spoilers* I always knew that Joel was going to die but I didn't know it would have been so badly written. The always suspicious Joel, who was wanted by the fireflies just freely introduced himself to a group of random strangers with his back turned to them. This is poor writting there is no getting past this.
Its been 5 years of peaceful solidarity in wyoming for joel. He got lazy maybe
This is some snowflake ass shit. Go back to fort nite lil guy. It won’t hurt your feelings like this game did.
It’s the last of us. “Caring about someone in this world is only good for one thing....getting yourself killed!!!” -Bill.