Commander 85 developer Marcin Makaj speaks with GamingBolt about the potential benefits of the upcoming PS5’s architecture.
But the armchair Devs said it was bad?
It's not bad, it's just not as good as XSX. What always makes me laugh is that the Xbox fanboys think that by the XSX having better graphics makes the the PS5 visuals rubbish. And yet they didn't care about visuals this gen, otherwise they wouldn't of had an X1 and they would of bought a PS4. PS5 games won't look as good as XSX in almost every case, but that doesn't mean the PS5 version will look bad either.
Lots of assuming going on right here..
@DRambo I have a feeling it's gonna be a split gen like 360/ps3
I would say what most dont get is that even thought ps5 has a faster SSD, it doesn't mean the XSX is as slow as a standard hard drive. Both are much faster than what we have today so both will pump info much faster, ps5 probably a bit faster.
Mr_Writer85 And how do you know? You call the Xbox fanboys bad the way I see it 99.9% of gamers on this site don't know what they are talking about when it comes to next gen consoles All they see is 12TF vs 10TF Developers have said time and time again TF aren't be all end all but guess what because one console has more so it's bragging rights Games on both next gen consoles will look and at the same. Both are capable of doing native 4K at various FPS. Sites like GB have made their living of gaming developers to say something and publishing an article As gamers we want to see games and if anything I know what the developers over at Sony are capable of just looks t the last of us part 2 and ghost. All these spec sheet warriors need to realize games sell consoles not specs But whom am I kidding this is a non stop argumental site now and fanboys know more than those developing games and having longtime developer history
@Minute Man 721 It's going to be nowhere near that. The only reason PS360 was close was because PS3 launched year later and cost anyhwere from $100 - $300 more than the Xbox 360 at launch, you could literally get a Xbox 360 and Wii for less than the 60GB PS3. On top of that games were easier to develop for on 360 compared to PS3 which is why some games were 60fps vs 30fps, or just overall better on 360, and that was the case for the first 1 - 2 years. That's not the situation here, in fact developers are saying the PS5 is the best console they've ever developed for, the PS5 will not cost up to $300 more than the Series X or Series S (if it launches), and games won't be dramatically better on Series X. On top of all that the PS3 still outsold the Xbox 360 globally beating the 360 in EU, JP, and RoW by a large margin, with the PS4 extending that margin even further. The PS5 practically has a guaranteed 65m console sold across EU, JP, and RoW and that's if they fumble several things this generation, as the PS4 will have 50m users in EU, JP 10m, and RoW 20m (80m) by the end of this year, and those gamers are more likely to want to take their libraries over to PS5, especially considering we know what games to expect from Xbox first party-wise for the next 2 years because besides 4 of their studios. Best case scenario Xbox wins back NA and UK, but PlayStation 5 will still likely go on to sell 100m units globally. And best case for Xbox 70m and that's an uphill battle for them depending on how long the generation last.
@neuteralgamer "And how do you know?" Because I'm neither blind or deluded. The XSX has better specs, there is no question about it, even DF and any other tech website/youtube channel says this. I haven't even mentioned TF. But it's an actual fact that the GPU and CPU in the XSX are stronger. But regardless, PS5 will still have great looking and fun to play games, I won't be bothered that someone with a SX gets slightly better graphics than me, I'm not going to sit there and say "well this game is fun, but I know the SX has better graphics so thereore I can't enjoy this game".
Your very wrong on so Many levels. Unreal's engine had to be re-written to keep up with PS5'S SSD. Higher clocks increase all aspects of the GPU not just the CU'S. Ram is the same speed. Not split. Brand new haptic feedback dual sense controller. Unmatched 3D audio system. xbox is relying on all CU'S being filled and that never happens. It dosen't scale enough. Ask vega56/64. 64 had 8 more cores and a higher clock. https://www.gpucheck.com/co... http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Rad... Xbox Series X will pull off some serious visuals as well, but PS5 imo is the complete package and it's first party teams are unmatched.
History repeats PS5 will dominate again.
thanks for the laugh.
How much better can 4k look on game engines dating back to 2000? 🤔😂🤦 Want to know what will make it look better? SPEED!
Ps5 games will look better for at least two years. Reason being is they are developing all games to also work on the og Xbox one for two years. A couple third parties might come close, but look at this gen. Still nothing on the one x looks better than horizon or uncharted or the last of us 2. So for two years Xbox won't be able to fully utilize their own console to pump out amazing visuals and right around there, the mid gen consoles should be coming out.
I didn't get my dose of Scorn dev today
About the only major advantage that XSX has in terms of graphics capabilities is the resolution can be higher more consistently on the XSX. Frame rates also, but that's going to vary based on developer decisions. Otherwise, each system has it's own focuses on some more minor graphics processes, but the major ones they're both fairly comparable Xsx does have some advantages in the gpu compute areas due to a higher CU count.
@Mr-Writer "It's not bad, it's just not as good as XSX. " I think you'll be surprised. Btw. i saw a more praise for PS5 from 3rd party devs than it was for XSX.
@Shaggy : Quote : 1: The PS5 RAM is slower than the XSX RAM 2: The SXS also has dedicated 3D audio, so nobody really knows if the PS5 audio is "unmatched" ..... Bandwidth on XSX can be drastically reduced if game use more than 10 GB ( and it will in near future ) and also bandwidth per TF is basically the same on both. Read the txt The CPU and GPU share the same bus to the same pool of RAM on both the Series X and PS5. There's no way around that. Only when the CPU is doing literally nothing can the GPU utilize the full bandwidth on either one (except it won't have any work to do because the CPU is what queues up work, so that's quite literally never going to happen.) As I stated above, if you assume the CPU needs the same 48GB/s on both, then you have 400GB/s remaining on the PS5 or about 39.1GB/s/TF for the 10.23TF PS5 (which is a pretty meaningless measure but it's what you're considering here.) On the Series X you have 480GB/s left or about 39.7GB/s/TF for the 12.1 TG CPU. They're in pretty much the same shape at these rates. The reason why 48GB/s of bus traffic for the CPU on Series X costs you 80GB/s of the theoretical peak GPU bandwidth is because it's tying up the whole 320-bit bus to transmit only 192 bits of data per cycle from the slower portion of RAM we've been told will be typically used by the CPU. 48GB / 192 bits * 320 bits = 80GB of effective bandwidth used to make that 48GB/s available. This is because only six of the ten RAM chips can contribute to that additional 6GB over and above the 10GB of RAM that can be accessed more quickly when all ten are used in parallel. Regarding audio : Sony already use 3D audio in PSVR. So, it will be in PS5 too. Btw. they both have dedicated audio chip. What is being offered here is enhanced with a DSP like processing but we really need to see and hear more to see what this offers and how much in empowers devs, the same for the PS5 Tempest engine but being a SPU in all but name with the DMA access it has been thought through with no CPU time required. Does the Series X have DMA within its Audio chip design, i really don't think so. And i think that Tempest chip with all HRTF stuff in PS5 is a bit more advanced than audio chip in XSX
How do you know "PS5 games won't look as good as XSX in almost every case"? Explain to us. Please.
PS4 games will look better than series x trust.
PS5 won't be rubbish. It's a very capable machine. Is the XSX better? Yes! But why does it matter. Everyone should own both.
The difference will be pretty minimal like it was at the start of the gen then we will get midgen refreshes and start arguing amongst ourselves again
Let’s put the best looking xb1x title up against the best looking ps4 pro title and see what looks better.
I say let's wait for both sides to showcase their games. This is a marathon not a sprint. First party games from both sides will decide this "fight". As for third party titles, we don't know yet which is the best to play. On paper it looks like the XSX. Guess we'll have to look st Digital Foundrys tecnical videos. Then we all can fight for who has the most wrinkles, better pixels. However you got to realise this, the casuals don't care about which place to play best.
You're talking out the side of your neck.
*Laughs in God Of War 2*
PS5 games won't look as good as XSX games you say? Well I have yet to see any game look nearly as good as PS4 Pros FF7 Remake, Horizon Zero Dawn and Days Gone on my X1X...... And X1X beats the pro in most specs.....
The vast majority of games are cross platform title found on Xbox, Playstation and the PC. This means that the developers will figure out a common denominator and target it to look mostly the same on all the systems. The PC usually gets a bit of an advantage here, but lately, that advantage has diminished due to escalating development costs. If you compare ACOdyssey for example, you will note that a PS4 Pro/X1X versions look fairly close to a PC version on High. The PC IS better of course, but not huge leaps better and the truth is, when playing the game, it fades into the background and you don't notice it. UBISoft probably did a cost/benefit analysis and said "not worth investing millions more into development costs for 5% of the customer base". Exclusives will of course shine. PS5 exclusives will look better tha Xbox 4 exclusives. Why? Because Sony has better first party developers than Xbox. Only an idiot would try to deny that. Xbox has... Halo, which is always graphically awesome when it comes out, but is eclipsed by Uncharted or Killzone (graphically) for example. So what does that leave the Xbox with? Probably not much in the end, except sad Xbox fanboys staring at screenshots all day to try and prove why their system is "better", while the Playstation 5 runs circles around it with better exclusive games that look better than anything on the Playstation 5. Or do you want to try and tell me that Xbox First party titles are better than Playstation first party titles and make yourself look like a complete fool?
Mr. Writer.... please stop writing.
What do you mean by "not as good"? You do know that Sony went out of their way to implement variable frequencies, right? Why would Sony intentionally gimp their hardware? It was done deliberately because maybe, just maybe, this design made more sense for their goals. It literally allows higher CPU activity or GPU activity where unused resources can be put to good use. It's quite genius, actually. I don't know the extent of your understanding of technology, but you're very much oversimplifying the matter.
Coming for the Dev who hasn’t had hands on with any of the up coming consoles.
it is bad. this is spin. why would you want to slow down your processing? its not running on a battery. Slower clock just means less cycles which means lens compute which means less power. This benefits smartphones and switch more than game consoles so they can preserve battery. a locked frequency means your cycles are always at maximum clock, no dips. Engine is always full throttle, When it comes to graphics that equals more compute performance average.
All desktop CPU and GPU throttle up and down as needed or warranted by other factors. A desktop pc still throttles it's cpu and in an APU where both are on the same chip, you understand why you may throttle cpu down as it isn't needed in order to for instance keep the system quieter? Guarantee you the Xbox would throttle if it got hot enough , that's simply how modern processors work. You can ignore everything else and the clocks and just look at raw numbers and say objectively at full clocks on both end the ps5 can do 85 percent of the floating point calculations the Xbox can on gpu and the Xbox can do 50 percent of the i/o throughput the ps5 can do , and be done with it. Going by raw TF if the Xbox runs a game at 60fps and is maxed out the ps5 would run it in the low 50s or need to change a setting UNLESS the game is bottlenecked by fill rate or isn't utilizing all CUs effectivly through split workloads then the difference will be smaller . That's the GPU difference . The storage difference is a game loading in 10 seconds on the series X will load in 5 or so seconds or 3 seconds on Xbox 1.5 on ps5. That's this generations likely outcome .
The dev doesn't have to really decide this on their end. If they need more power, it's available to them. It's not a random boost or upclocking, but determined when the game is built. The dev can lock in the highest possible clock if they want, but the reasons for not running at full speed all the time are more for power consumption and efficiency. I'm honestly not even sure why Sony mentioned this feature, as it's pretty common with modern processors to only run as fast as needed, but run at full speed when necessary. Every PC GPU does this kind of throttling already, and no one seems to make it more than it is.
But... it isnt really that much of a variable. I mean if it ran at 1.8ghz up to 3.6ghz then we could call it variable because it could run at different GHz in between. The PS5 has regular mode (which it will run in by default) and a boost mode (for specific applications).
This doesn't even make since. In no way shape or form are variable speeds better than a locked one.
Nope. Because in a way that’s right. And in another way however that wrong. Being almost locked at 2.23 ghz is better than being locked at 1.9 ghz. Ps5 is not bound by thermals. It’s capped by a limit in controller logic.
Who the scorn Devs
"besides the difference in PlayStation 5’s more flexible approach, I honestly don’t see a clear winner here.” He's literally referring to Sony having a "more flexible" (variable) take on their clock speeds rather than locked making little difference. Not that it "offers more flexibility". Deary me, Gamingbolt.
Correct. The ssd speed difference and system architecture is what is going to be the clear winner here. The variable frequency just helps with efficiency and system heat/noise.
I agree with you regarding the SSD being a big differentiator if and when devs tap the extra capability. However, he only talked about compute performance here, I believe. CPU and GPU. Nothing mentioned about SSD. As for the gap he seems to think ease of development will be in PS5's favor. "According to my experience in developing games for Xbox One and PlayStation 4, usually I got better performance results on PlayStation 4, and I think it will stay the same for the next-gen consoles"
The both have SSD. Does the SSD render images , do ray tracing, do in game physics,. 3d audio? No. What do you guys think a SSD does besides reduce load times and transfer data?
@itsmebryan I'm not here to tell you that the faster SSD will produce better visuals this gen. But, GPU's can only render the data they can recieve during the moment, if they can't recieve it, then things don't load and you get pop-ins, low quality meshes, and game designers limit the amount of objects, scale, and scene transitions by what a HDD can do. It's not just lading screens. Those jarringly low quality objects in a game? It's not just laziness. Much of the time, they simply had a little bit of room left for populating a scene after designing around constraints. With an SSD, they can add as many assets to the scene as the GPU can handle, and they can all be high quality. Quite important for new GPU's. Otherwise we'd have the same game design, object and NPC limitations, but just prettier. Now, we will have much denser worlds and higher quality assets that the GPU will be sent to render because the storage medium was able to pump it into the RAM so fast. Not a single person claims that SSD's render anything. The meaning is that the GPU will now recieve data at such larger intervals that a scene will be built up of far more objects, that are detailed, and complex.
@itsmebryan No, a ssd doesn't do all those things you listed, but on a different note it allows all those things you listed to be done much more proficiently. I really realize that most people didn't understand or comprehend most of what Cerny explained about the PS5 architecture, for example the CPU/GPU scrubbers employed and their uses. Not to mention 12 channel GPU with 4 channels dedicated to their 4.O PCI, or even how they've dedicated 8 stand-alone chips as powerful as the jaguar chips in the PS4 to minimize the workload on the CPU/GPU of the PS5 thereby shortening the rendering time required in-between clocks. But don't take my word for this, refer to Cerny's deep dive video available on YouTube it explains it all.
@sinspirit and stuna1 Has any Developers said that the SSD in the XSX is a bottleneck? I have been building my own gaming rigs since 1995 and watched storage evolve from 5400 rpm drives to SSD. SSD mostly help load time. Yes, it gets data to the GPU and CPU faster but, that doesn't make up for having less power. I can put in car terms. You have two Mustangs. The turbo 4 cylinder and the other the V8 GT. You put sticky racing tires on the 310hp turbo and regular tire on the 460 hp V8. The sticky racy (SSD)tires put power to the ground more efficiently But, the more powerful V8 GT will still be faster. The slight advantage Sony SSD is not going to make up the difference of the more powerful XSX.
@itsmebryan The SSD will be a differentiator next gen. Your PC is not a good indictor because games aren't built to require high speed storage. A new gen will change that. As an example, if your assets are managed better (dynamic geometry) you get a better looking game with less GPU work. That can lead to better FPS too. Also if your storage can't keep up you will see blurry textures and lower poly assets.
@itsmebryan You have to look at it from a bigger picture. You're correct in that's what SSDs directly do, but what is more important is what a faster SSD/IO speed will be able to INDIRECTLY do. PS5 will be able to leverage it's faster SSD and IO speed to be able to run games that have large seamless environments or environments with huge amount of characters and objects more smoothly and with a greater amount of object count/detail. Game genres that have big levels and/or lots of data flying around will benefit the most, like MMOs and RPGs, RPGs with online Co-Op gameplay, and open world adventure games. Games with big open worlds, especially MMOs with big open areas that have lots of enemies and players on screen at the same time, such as during a big cross faction PvP fight for a rare open world boss, will benefit greatly and we might even see some MMO developers opt to develop their game first, or even exclusively, on PS5 for a change. Travel portals/gates will be instantaneous. And in some cases, no need for a portal or gate, you'll be able to walk into a new dungeon level without waiting and you won't notice that the game has loaded up a new dungeon raid instance for you and your party.
Expect GP to milk this interview to death over the coming weeks.
From the ever-credible dev with no next-gen dev kits, a kickstarter with fewer than 600 backers that's being released on current-gen consoles, and just a single mixed-rated game from 4 years ago on Steam...
Ram speed, SSD speed, CPU threads/cores, and bandwidth will be what gets the appropriate data to the GPU and CPU. XSX has an advanced AI learning system to compress data and unpack data at an incredible rate. All in all... The XSX has the most advanced piece of tech. It's all about the games though. All of the advantages it has over the PS5 won't mean a thing if they don't produce bangers like PS4 did this gen.
Gamingbolt is trash.
@Babadook7 We will see who is right this November. P.s. it's me. JK. We just have to wait and see.
Devs are praising the PS5 saying it has the best architecture of any console out there. Strong praise among the Devs community.
This developer isn't working on a next-gen game and doesn't even have a dev kit. The article even points out his opinions are based on just words and the internet...
I've seen reactions from different people in the gaming industry who know what they are talking about, and they all say PS5 is more powerful than you might think at first. It is not about Teraflops anymore in this generation of consoles. What is more important is the SSD and getting rid of the bottleneck problems, and that is exactly what Sony is doing right. But how the Xbox and PS5 really perform we have to wait and see.
"reactions from different people in the gaming industry" Yeah, like this one, right? Gaming Bolt articles from people with opinions formed by other opinions. Doesn't even matter if they have the hardware... Opinions will truly matter - and have the evidence to back it up - in at least a year or two when developers actually know the hardware they've *been* working on, not just opining about what they could maybe one-day possibly do if they even get a dev kit.
like another studio that doesnt work with PS5 and talks like it does?
Scorn dev: "We can’t discuss any info regarding PlayStation" You: "...doesnt work with PS5 and talks like it does" If you're gonna defend GamingBolt, at least read GamingBolt.
You don't have to have a dev-kit to understand the benefits. You just have to have the knowledge. I think most developers, big and small, know exactly what kind of benefits this hyper-ssd tech will provide. It's math, really.
@ Gardenia - then maybe SOny should build in 2 SSDS instead of the GPU to output better graphics :P :P?? PS5 new SSD = PS3 CELL - 120 FPS confirmed.... do you remember the first killzone and Motorstorm trailers? LOL - pure fake news The PS5 GPU will run with 9.2 Tflops and 10.2 in Boost mode. Why did Cerny did not mention the graphics power without boost mode? He said that they are confident that games will use the full GPU clock speed. Confident does not mean confirmed....The DEV kits run with 13 TFLOPS with stable clock speed... why?? I smell a nice design (again) contra heet, thats why they like to use the word "boost mode"
I'm no tech expert by no means but, if a game doesn't require the full 10 tflops why would it use it? If the content needs 10flops then it's their. Why make it seem like something other than that?
This is the dumbest post I’ve even read. Thanks for the lol pornflake
Dev-kits always have overhead for tools.
Thundercat77 That's simply not true. The only thing Sony has been complemented on was making the SSD as fast as it is "in house". It transfers data quick, but then comes the limits. In the GPU and the bandwidth of the RAM.
I'd prefer to have unified memory. Only 10GB of that 16 is available for games. Where the PS5 has roughly 100gbps less but has more ram to work with for the games. This will be more of a factor later into the generation when the systems are being used to their full potential and games for the XSX can only utilize 10GB and Sony will have more available. I'm sure some of that 16 is reserved for the OS (Linux based) but it definitely won't need 6GB thanks to not relying on a thirsty Windows 10 Based OS.
what would give you more flexibility. Having to slow the cpu down to increase the GPU, therefore losing computational power, vice versa, or having a consistent amount of power, that is greater than either boosted clock speed to allow you to maximize both cpu and gpu?.
"says dev" replaced with "opines dev". Gotta appreciate the variety
Good use of quick googling
Today on I went to University I swear, we have someone who learned a word from a random user on a gaming site. Actually, I admit to googling that immediately after seeing crazyCoconut's post too, and I agree that it is an appropriate appellation.
With GB, something positive for Sony is an opinion. Something positive for MS is a declarative fact.