The Frame Rate Debate: Looking Towards Next Gen

What can we expect from the next generation of consoles when it comes to frame rates in games? Are sub-60 fps frame rates truly a deal breaker?

[RazzerRedux]

"Are sub-60 fps frame rates truly a deal breaker?"

It wouldn't be if game devs would simply hand over the ability to choose frame rate over resolution and vice versa on console like PC gamers have been able to do for years.

[GaboonViper]

This.

[Saijahn]

This man for president

[BehindTheRows]

The issue for consoles is power and resources. That is why it isn’t usually offered on those devices. I’m sure the next gen ones will offer additional options, but I doubt it will reach the level of customization that PC enjoys.

[WickedLester]

No, I don't want a ton of graphical setting options on console. Just make it strictly an "either/or" proposition. 30fps/more detail and 60fps/less detail. The funny thing about it is I have a PS4 Pro and on the games where it gives you the choice of 30fps/more detail or 60fps/less detail (ie, God of War, Infamous Second Son, Shadow of the Colossus, etc) I can honestly say the difference visually is NOT that big. In fact it's so small, you'd almost be foolish to even want the 30fps option.

[BehindTheRows]

@WickedLester

I didn't say that you NEED "a ton of graphical options" on consoles. I merely point the facts behind their continued omission. And the PS4's Pros few options are not going to bring about big changes in the visuals. For that, once again, you need a PC.

[Felix_Argyle_Catbro]

God of War on PS4 Pro using the performance mode is easily a 10 times better experience than the locked 30fps resolution mode. And don't give me that "it's not stable so I prefer the locked 30fps duurrrrr" bullshit. It's 95% of the time above 45fps and feels so much smoother. Every fucking console game should have the option to go after 60fps. The Ratchet & Clank Remake is almost unplayable at 30fps. There's a reason the previous games were 60fps. It's just fucking better.

And the argument "well uuuuhh you don't need 60fps for every game" is so much bullshit as well. It's not about "needing" it. It's about 60fps simply feeling better. For me, consoles are purely for exclusives because 90% of games on consoles are running at 30fps. It's making me so happy to see games like Horizon Zero Dawn coming to PC. Purely because now I can play it at good frame rates.

I fucking hope that PS5 is capable enough so that developers are more inclined to make their games 60fps there. Same for Sex Box. I'd love to own one of those without being disappointed in them.

[LOGICWINS]

Great comment! I think after the AC: Valhalla debacle, both Sony and Microsoft know that 60fps is important to gamers.

Mark Cerny already confirmed that old PS4 games will run at higher framerates on the PS5.

[Obscure_Observer]

"Mark Cerny already confirmed that old PS4 games will run at higher framerates on the PS5."

According to DF, only PS4 games with unlocked framerates and/or resolution will get enhancements on PS5. Ex:

Horizon: Zero Dawn - Yes
Uncharted 4: - No

[LOGICWINS]

Thank you for correcting me!

[RazzerRedux]

@Obscure_Observer

"According to DF, only PS4 games with unlocked framerates and/or resolution will get enhancements on PS5."

Where did they make that statement? I read the article below where they stated those games needed to be patched.

"But what about those crucial Sony first-party games? In most cases, we don't expect to see a huge difference and would hope to see the developers patch the games for improved results. But as things stand, the developers did a rather impressive job in achieving 1080p or 2160p resolutions in their PS4/Pro projects and typically did so with consistent performance. Titles like Death Stranding, Horizon Zero Dawn or Days Gone may only see marginal improvements to performance. The Shadow of the Colossus remake, Uncharted 4 and the Lost Legacy on PS4 Pro won't exceed their 1440p resolution limits *without a patch* and performance boosts will only impact the very limited problematic areas of play."
https://www.eurogamer.net/a...

[gamer7804]

OR just give people the option to choose frame rate or res. This really shouldn’t even be a debate. Why please 50% when you can please 100%

[BehindTheRows]

He didn’t correct you. He’s very wrong, in fact.

[jib]

I agree with the options & I do prefer 60fps for most games. Though I don't see the point in arguing either way as it is subjective. Some(I'd guess most) prefer better visual aesthetics over having 60fps. I can relate to both sides

[Games1st]

People should expect 60fps from first party. Xbox confirmed focusing on 60fps for firsty party.

[sampsonon]

Many people are saying "1440p 30fps?" Without realizing the game had 100'S of billions of triangles, which i kind of get, which is why it was running at those numbers. Now take 1/4 triangles away, scale it down a bit for each frame, and you will hit 4K 60. It's really that simple. And the next gen games will still be way better looking than what we have now.

[Fishy Fingers]

"Now take 1/4 triangles away, scale it down a bit for each frame, and you will hit 4K 60"

Wow, tone it down, laymens speak please. You clearly know your shit....

In seriousness though. Why does it have to be 4K? If 1440p with UE's excellent temporal upscaling looks better than downgrading settings to hit 4K native whats the point? Do you want the best looking game the devs can make, or buzzwords for forum posts?

[sampsonon]

I agree. I am just telling you what a certain community is saying and it's not the other console's community.
Plus native 4k is not a buzz word when you're looking at it.

[Fishy Fingers]

I've played at 4k for years mate, that's why I'm saying nothing (at 4K) looked like the UE5 demo.

It's one part of a shitload of settings that make up the overall presentation

[--Onilink--]

Well, resolution does impact the amount of visible detail as well. Not to mention 1440p depending on the screen size might be pushing it a bit. I feel 1800p is the sweet spot to aim for a high enough res but still looking to achieve at least 60fps.

At 1440p or lower I would honestly expect 60+ fps in a performance mode

[LOGICWINS]

I'm cool with 1440p/60fps for multiplatform games....but not for 1st party titles that are meant to take full advantage of each respective console. 4K/60fps should be the standard for all PS5 and Series X exclusives....especially if these consoles end up being $499.

Godfall needs to be 4K/60fps at launch
Halo: Infinite needs to be 4K/60fps at launch

[Fishy Fingers]

Again buzzwords.

The UE5 demo looked better than anything we've seen 4K or not (and you needed someone to tell you it wasnt 4K). Taking advantage doesn't mean using 8,294,400 pixels or anything less looks shit. Let developers (the professionals) take the advantage knowing they've provided you the best looking and performing product they could based on a myriad different factors, resolution being just one.

Halo needs to run and look the best it can at the settings it can, same with Godfall. If you think resolution =/= graphics and quality. You dont know shit (dont worry, it shows).

1440p/1800p ultra > 4k low/medium (especially with modern upscaling).

[OB1Biker]

4k will be easy for cross gen games but a waste for next gen. Its not needed
Halo cross gen.

[Tacoboto]

If Microsoft has 4K60fps on One X with something as good-looking as Forza 7, and Halo/Gears 5 can hit or get close to it with Dynamic Res 60fps, of course the Series X should hit higher resolution and look better.

Gears 5 is already running over 60@4K on Series X with better settings

[LOGICWINS]

@Fishy If I'M putting down MY money for a product then I get to determine what "quality" means to ME. I don't give a good God damn what the developer personally thinks quality is. We as gamers are supposed to communicate to the developer what WE want via our hard earned money..and right now, we want 4K/60fps.

I don't wanna hear any excuses. Otherwise my money stays in my wallet. If I wanna play at 30fps, I'll play on my Switch.

[Fishy Fingers]

More power to you then mate.

But if you see something that looks incredible, far better than anything this gen offered but DF analysis concludes it's "only" 1440p with deep learning upscaling are you going to ignore it as it doesnt hit your metrics?

Great games arent about ticking boxes. If that's what gaming is to you then IMO your priorities are askew

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

So if Sony gave you a PS5 game with PS2 looking graphics, but it ran at 4k/60fps, you'd be happy?
I'm asking this because it appears that you care more about the numbers than how the game actually looks/runs.

[one2thr]

Well not saying your math is wrong, but it need to take into account that no hardware acceleration was used to run that demo.

[spirited]

On top of my wish-list besides better AI and physics is to see performance mode in games if 4k 60fps not possible.I mean there is no bottle neck now in consoles, there is no excuse.

[Donnie81]

Here’s the kicker. Let’s put aside Xbox or PlayStation for just once and get up in ubisofts grill if this game isn’t 60 FPS on both systems. There’s no excuse other than an in engine problem but that still leaves the whole of argument. If it’s not 60fps it’s just pure laziness or lack of time. Same thing in my book. Not to mention both systems should nail 4 k as well

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

A steady 60 fps does NOT improve ANY game... I hate The Last of Us at 60 fps, it loses it’s cinematic feel, so I’m thrilled that I can toggle it.

Yes, plenty of games deserve to run at 60 fps. Any competitive game or game heavily reliant on timing tends to benefit from a higher frame rate.

Looking at the amount of detail running at 30 fps for UE5, is anybody worried about games running at 60 fps on next gen consoles? Sure, they won’t look THAT good if pushed to 60 fps, but I’m sure Madden can make a very pretty sports sim locked at 60 fps. Or, at least they should be able to.

Idk if GoW2 will be 60 fps, because the devs may think a cinematic look is more important than the smoothest combat. And, they may design the pace of combat with this frame rate in mind.

Ultimately, I hope PS5 exclusives follow the same suit they did with photo mode and custom HUDs, and offer a resolution/frame rate switch for all of their games, too. Not everybody cares about 4K, and not every one wants a single player game locked at 120 fps (but do happen to own an 8k tv).

I’d personally be happy with 30 fps across the board, but I’d be happier to see PS5 offer an opportunity for console gamers to stop having this debate.

[Games1st]

"A steady 60 fps does NOT improve ANY game."

60fps improves reactionary gameplay, it allows the game to improve tracking (where the enemy and player are), aiming, dodging, parrying is more accurate. This is more important in harder difficulties.

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

You are confrontational, or do not like to read.... I very clearly agree with you. All I said was that it does not improve ALL games.

[Vigant]

Just fucking give players the option to play at the resolution/framerate they want... It doesn't have to be like the framerate sliders that are on PC. Just have 3 options.

-1080p 100+ fps
-1440p 60 fps
-4k 30 fps

Edit: Also, i hope they increase the FOV on console because they are unbearably bad.

[Destiny1080]

3 simple options sounds good

i don't think you'll be getting Pc like FOV Sliders but they should be greatly improved for next gen consoles, some of them were laughable bad on some games

Call of duty always impresses, Looks great and a near 60 on a Jaguar Core, i don't see any problems with developers hitting 60 fps with these processors

[ApocalypseShadow]

Some gamers are so locked into the nonsense of 60fps and 4K like that makes a game fun. If it's 4K but 30fps, you guys won't play it. If it's 60fps but only 1080P, you won't play it.

"Give us a choice like PC." " Give us 4K/60fps or death."

Just totally ridiculous mindsets. These individuals aren't gamers. They're graphics whores repeating buzz word marketing. If a game is fun to play, I don't care what resolution or frame rate a game is. That's how it's supposed to be.

[LOGICWINS]

"Some gamers are so locked into the nonsense of 60fps and 4K like that makes a game fun. If it's 4K but 30fps, you guys won't play it. If it's 60fps but only 1080P, you won't play it."

No one here said that. I'm sure a lot of the people buying these consoles Day 1 have Switch as well.

I played Civ 6 in handheld mode last night at 720p/30fps and enjoyed it immensely.

The difference is that Nintendo didn't ask me to potentially shell out $499 for a Switch. Nintendo didn't tell me the Switch was capable of 4K/60fps.

When you charge more and promise more, it's perfectly logical to EXPECT more.

[ApocalypseShadow]

No. You just sound like an entitled child thinking 60fps is important. It's nice. But it's not mandatory and needy graphics and framerate whores should change their mindset.

LOGICWINS 3h ago
I'm cool with 1440p/60fps for multiplatform games....but not for 1st party titles that are meant to take full advantage of each respective console. 4K/60fps should be the standard for all PS5 and Series X

Games1st 1h ago
People should expect 60fps from first party.

Donnie813h ago
Here’s the kicker. Let’s put aside Xbox or PlayStation for just once and get up in ubisofts grill if this game isn’t 60 FPS on both systems.

That's just a couple of people. INCLUDING YOU.

That's demanding that you must have a certain framerate or resolution because you pay money. You're not entitled to squat. If a developer wants to make a game 30fps, so be it. If they want to make a game with all the trimmings but had to lower the resolution to 1080P. But it's upscaled, so be it.

You guys are demanding like children. Basically saying it's got to be a certain way or else. Or else what? Developers aren't controlled by you or anyone else. If Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo first party want to make a game their way because they decided it was best for the game, deal with it.

Games I go back to to play from the past aren't 4K. Some weren't even 60fps. It doesn't matter. Because they were fun. End of.

[GameStallion]

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

[waverider]

Many games will be 60 frames, but 30 frames will still be a reality. What will and must end are games that arent even locked at 30 frames like this gen. Only racers will reach higher frames.

[UnbreakableAlex]

I didn’t play a lot of Xbox one x games because they where 30fps. I don’t know if it’s the one x or the programming but 30fps on one x, for example in Looks Laylee look much worse than some 30fps ps4 Pro games. I couldn’t play them, it strains my eyes.
Also: why does animal crossing need to be 30fps? Graphics are worse than SMO and BOTW and it’s on a much smaller island.
God I hate 30 FPS.
Just please give us options.

Also: the bigger the screen, the worse it looks at 30fps.

[Spurg]

First off, if anyone is expecting 4k 60 fps with Ray tracing on to be the norm, you are looking to be disappointed.
I think that developers should allow an option for a performance mode. There are times when I want to play a game with high fps and time where I want to cherish the beauty of the game.

[Elda]

I just want next gen games to look sharp,clean,clear pretty & vivid far as graphics & resolution including running well may the be 30fps or 60fps or in between.

[GameStallion]

60FPS is the most important standard to me for next gen consoles. Anything less will be severely disappointing.

[uth11]

some gamers will get upset if a game doesn't hit 60
Some will get upset if the game doesn't hit the native resolution (see the uproar over 900p games last gen)
Some will get upset if graphics look like last gen.

Developers can't make everyone happy all the time. But they seem to cater most to the third group that wants to see dazzling graphics over everything else. Thats probably where the most sales are

[Krew_92]

Yup and you can clearly see that with Ubisoft and their AC series. They said it themselves that AC:Valhalla will be running at 30 FPS. They prioritised graphics over anything else like many other developers these days.

[Hyperstrada]

i could not play FH4 on 4k30 fps keep wreaking. changed it to 1080p 60 fps game plays great.
i always had a hard time driving in GTA V on my X1X . i didn't know it was only 30fps on the X.
picked it up for free on my pc this week . now all of the sudden no problem driving . my pc plays it over 60fps.
Never knew how bad 30fps was till i played the same game at a higher FPS.

[SaveFerris]

I can't wait to have Visual Novels running at 60 or 120fps on the next-gen consoles /s

[Lennoxb63]

You will not get 60 fps for games that aren't competitive and/or fast. Its beating a dead horse at this point. Cinematic games like Resident Evil and TLOU will continue to be 30 fps. Games like Doom and Cod will continue to be 60 fps. As long as you're on console, this is the reality. Get over it.

[WickedLester]

Here's the problem. People need to stop looking at consoles the same way they look at PC's. On console, framerate is not hardware driven. You cannot "brute force" your way to 60fps on console the way you can on PC because consoles are not modular. You can't go on Newegg and buy a more powerful graphics chip to put into your PS5 or XSX. On closed architectures like consoles, framerate is a CREATIVE choice made by the developer. So no matter how beefy the PS5 and XSX are, they are still at the mercy of the developers and how they want to allocate the system's resources. So when anyone tries to claim that the XSX or the PS5 was "built for 60fps" that is just empty marketing speak. It's still at the discretion of the developer. If developers wanted to, they could've decided to make current gen all 60fps. Again, it's all a matter of resource management and what they are willing to sacrifice to make 60fps a priority. So please, stop speaking PC language in a console world. It's completely apples and oranges. If you cannot accept that, then you're in the wrong ecosystem. Go play PC if sub 60fps is a gaming "deal breaker" for you.