The Outer Worlds Could Have Been So Much More If It Wasn't For Current-Gen Consoles

PP: The Outer Worlds impressed us all when it launched last year. But apparently it could have been so much more. That’s because, according to a recent interview, the team were held back by the current hardware as it’s capability failed to match their aspirations.

[NewMonday]

People will start to understand next gen is not about graphics.This issue here is what Cerny means when he talks about unlocking game design capabilities on PS5. the SX should be able of solving this issues but the PS% will be 100% more capable.

[Jin_Sakai]

I cant wait for next gen consoles so we can get away from this garbage Jaguar CPU. Everything else will be icing on the cake.

[Obscure_Observer]

Jin_Sakai

"I cant wait for next gen consoles so we can get away from this garbage Jaguar CPU."

According to DF, devs are still developing PS5 games on engines based on Jaguar CPUs. Alot of people criticized MS for their decision on support Xbox One consoles for 1-2 years. Including Linneman from DF, who also said Jaguar CPUs would held back next gen game design. Now we know most devs don´t have next gen engines to take advantage of those next gen systems.

So we can only hope for Sony and it´s first party studios to have next gen engines to really impress with their next gen launch games.

I can´t wait

[anonymousfan]

@Obscure_Observer you have a good point about jaguar cpu holding back next gen but don't expect all third party devs to keep supporting Xbox One S & X. Microsoft said they would with their own first party but thats it. We' ll see =D

[rainslacker]

Engines can be adapted, and engines aren't designed around specific hardware. Particularly those that make multi-platform games. Game engines are designed to build to whatever hardware they need to build to, and the only reason to keep an engine building to a Jaguar CPU is if the game has to run on a Jaguar CPU. Otherwise, the game engine core will be adapted to run on different hardware, just like it already does when you use it to build to systems that don't use the Jaguar CPU.

This game, and many others, also run on PC, which uses CPU's which greatly outclass the Jaguar, so the only thing holding it back with next gen hardware is if the developers don't make a version that takes advantage of the new hardware, or actively design their game to make sure it runs on current gen consoles.

Unreal can already take advantage of next gen systems, as well as high end PC CPU's. On the PC side, they rarely take advantage of them, because the lowest common denominator is still too much of a factor, and these devs/pubs want the games to sell, not cater to a very small part of the PC gaming market.

[SyntheticForm]

Next gen is about better everything but games will be what what developers prioritize.

[Obscure_Observer]

@NewMonday

"This issue here is what Cerny means when he talks about unlocking game design capabilities on PS5. the SX should be able of solving this issues but the PS% will be 100% more capable."

Yet Cerny hasn´t show us anything. We saw Minecraft and Gears enhanced with Ray Tracing. Hellblade II, Project Mara, Flight Simutator and Playground just gave us a glimpse of the next level of photogrammetry technology that will be present on their new RPG, Halo Infinite and Hellblade II.

Actuall images from Forza Horizon 4:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media...

It´s time to Sony quit the talk and show us actuall product.

[NewMonday]

Actually we did see a demonstration of of PS5's SSD effect on gameplay months ago..
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[ElementX]

That's just a loading sequence, isn't it?

[MasterCornholio]

@ElementX

It's actually two parts. The first is the loading sequence. The second is the streaming capability of the drive.

[chiefJohn117]

Holy S*** that's Forza H4!!! Idk if I can handle those graphics. Is that a real life picture?

[Obscure_Observer]

@MasterCornholio

This particular presentation was running on a devkit targeting PS5´s specs. We should expect the actual PS5 system to be even faster! O.o

@chiefJohn117

"Holy S*** that's Forza H4!!! Idk if I can handle those graphics. Is that a real life picture?"

Playground is made of amazing top talented people! I can´t even imagine how their next gen games will look and play.

Exciting times ahead. :)

[timotim]

Cerny hasn't shown a damn thing!

@Monday
You aren't helping the cause. You can't say the SSD will be used for more than just loading times, then proceed to post a video showing only load times haha.

[NewMonday]

@timotim & @ElementX

Brahs! watch the other half of the clip.

[SublimeStylee2]

Game was great, loading screens were absolutely dreadful and irritating.

[Profchaos]

I had a SSD in my pro loading speeds were not bad for me obviously not at the level of the ps5 but like 6 seconds here and there I found it was extremely quick compared to other improvements in other titles fallout 4 being one that I save a minute on entering buildings and rdr2 being other that loads in about 15 seconds for an open world rockstar game that's a huge plus

[Donnie81]

you know they are hyping that ssd because that’s all they got. Sony really underestimated Xbox and now they are gonna have to spend a whole generation hyping storage. Those 3 second faster load times aren’t gonna make up for a massive power difference. So the only thing the ps5 is 100% capable of is running every game worse than the series x

[frostypants]

"massive power difference"...mmmk. You're going to be disappointed.

[mkis007]

The difference on paper as far as power goes is less than ps4 and pro vs xb1 and xb1x respectively. The difference in real world visuals is even less than that due to decreasing returns. It remains to be seen just how good beyond 100% better on paper the SSD is because it is so heavily customized and new to consoles .

[Donnie81]

Plus the ssd isntt gonna do anything revolutionary because Sony is also gonna release all their games on pc and they can’t have the minimum spec require a custom ssd.

[NeoGamer232]

Really? And what facts back up anything you just stated?

There is not a single game announced yet for next gen that has shown anything you are speaking of.

[mandingo]

damage controooollllllllll

[neutralgamer1992]

No I don't think so you want to have the reveal trailer it was said that this is not AAA game. It was meant to be a smaller title under take two

[arminukxbox]

@newmonday r u related to mark cerny ? If SSD was going to do something rather than loading speed don’t you think devs would have talk about it for pc ?

[NewMonday]

Star Citizen for PC is unplayable without an SSD.

[GrontB]

This is exactly it. There will be 2 years of multiplatform games that will “look” better on XSX but 1st party Sony Studios will show what Cerny was describing about a different approach at development.
Star Citizen is a good example of how the engines will begin to work. SC runs poorly on HDD because it is built for SSD and their loading processes to go from space down to a blade of grass only works with instantaneous loading, I.e. what Cerny was talking about.

Exciting times ahead!

[LordJamar]

Yeah no I’m believe it when I see it

[SPEAKxTHExTRUTH]

Explain how it will be 100% more capable...

[antikbaka]

you mean unlocking gimmicks?

[fathertime4464]

Don't see how the ps5 will be 100% capable of solving these issues since outworlds will be a Microsoft exclusive from here on out, but keep dreaming.
Also how can you honestly think only the ps5 can and that the xsx may be able to? Your fan boy goggles are showing way to much there newmonday

[3-4-5]

I love that things will be better for both XSX & PS5, but also different as well.

I think we will find that for certain things, the PS5 does them better, and for others the XSX.

Kind of like the SNES & Sega Genesis or the N64/PS1..........both had great games but had limitations the other didn't.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

I have trouble believing the PS4 and Xbox One where limiting factors for a few reasons. Firstly, obsidian is porting the game to the Switch, a console with about 1/4 the power of its competitors. Secondly, the Outer World isn’t technically impressive at all. The Witcher 3 (2015) an early generation open world is much more impressive than the Outer Worlds. Also, Red Dead Redemption 2 is one of the most demanding games on the market, with way better graphics and technical aspects than the Outer Worlds and it runs decently enough on the XB1 & PS4.

[NewMonday]

the developer is talking about level design. more goes into porting than simply scaling graphics, some pieces of the game just can't be scaled to fit. for example IIRC Wolfenstein on the Switch added walls reduce the rendering.

[BlueBlue]

The level design of this game, simply put, is atrocious. NPC interactions were dialed down because the level design team seemed to not know how to allocate memory. One of the things mentioned in the recent noclip documentaries is that to enter the bar on the Groundbreaker, all the Groundbreaker's background section needed to be deleted. This just tells me that they, simply put, haven't put much effort into memory allocation (which is why they still required lengthy loading screens).

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

How was the Outer Worlds levels limited by hardware? There are games with more impressive worlds than the Outer Worlds on current gen. The Outer Worlds was nothing special in terms of levels and quest design.

[NewMonday]

Programmer talent is an issue. Obsidian make great deep RPGs at the "pen and paper" level. but they have always been limited at code. A main goal of the PS5 is to help reduce the coding demands on developers so they could focus on game design.

this generation we have lots of inspired 2D and 2.5D indy games from indy developers who just focus on the game design and use mostly 3rd party engines. most of the work the work dedicated to content not programming.

[rainslacker]

I think resources were probably more of an issue than talent. Lots of things can be done when you have the money to hire the programmers and give them enough time to actually do those things. Most games can be much more than they end up being, and it's rare to find a game on this level that somehow manages to meet all it's "aspirations".....mo re commonly referred to as scope in game design terms. Almost every single game dials things back, either due to not being possible on a practical level when it comes to implementation, because it ends up not being all that great when implemented, or because time and resources run out, and the game effectively goes onto code lock which ceases development of new features being added.

[Wiseguy737]

Hallelujah somebody said it. Sounds like a cop out to me

[lellkay]

Exactly my thoughts! Sounds like Obsidian is talking fluff here. There has been far better games on current gen hardware with just about better everything (visuals, level design, animation, performance etc) than The Outer Worlds.

[frostypants]

The issue is Obsidian themselves. Let's be honest, Outer Worlds is a like a glorified Bethesda game total-mod. They lack the know-how to go outside these bounds.

[brrdat]

i love when random people on the internet with no expertise on a subject act like they know more than people with years of experience working in that specific field of work. it's hilarious.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Yes, I shouldn’t display any critical thinking or observational skills. I shouldn’t point out the obvious technical shortcomings of the Outer Words compared to other games. I’m only a gamer. A gamer, who couldn’t understand anything about hardware or software because I don’t make video games.

Using your logic a person who drives a car, but doesn’t make them shouldn’t be able to say “that their specific car isn’t fuel efficient”. After all the common driver doesn’t make cars. They only readily observe the differences in fuel efficiency that different cars have.

[MadLad]

Love Obsidian, but this seems like a copout. I highly enjoyed Outer Worlds, but it was obvious it had a smaller budget.

That's what held back the game. Small budget, and a small team. Outer Worlds 2 could be amazing with a MS budget.

[timotim]

Bingo!

[rainslacker]

That's what I think to. There are too many games like it which had so much more, but also had massive budgets and resources allocated to their development.

TOW is a good game for what it is, and it's impressive for the size of the team, and what I assume the budget for the game was. Trying to say they could do more with more hardware seems disingenuous, even though it's a logical thing to assume because that's the way it always is.

They should be proud of what they delivered, and instead of lamenting what could have been, talk about what they will do with more in the future.

[MadLad]

Well said.

[NeoGamer232]

Agreed. The next game after Grounded is going to be the game that defines Obsidian going forward. They will have the budget and the full team. Now lets see what they truly can do!

They have shown potential and done really good games. Now lets see if they can enter the upper echelon of game developers.

[MadLad]

I'm hoping they do. Been a fan since Kotor 2.

[FanboyPolice]

I cant believe you mention Microsoft and you got upvoted in this site

[BlueBlue]

It just seems to me that many game developers don't know how to allocate memory and require an automated procedure for that. This can be showcased by the fact that the few who do know how to allocate memory (Rockstar, Naughty Dogs, etc.), never blame the consoles for given game design shortcomings.

The Outer Worlds, while well designed in terms of mechanics (the flaws mechanic and such), is badly designed in terms of levels and areas.

[rainslacker]

Memory management is the bane of most game developers. It's not something that's easy to do, and when you have hundreds of competing processes, many of which are critical, it makes each person in charge of specific implementations fighting for every byte of memory they can get.

Actually programming memory down to the hardware level is really only possible on console, and some GPU compute functions on PC, and if a game is releasing on PC, most of that is left to the game engine to figure out and do the work for them. This isn't as efficient but usually much more cost effective.

If any memory management is done, it's usually only partial for specific things within a design, because managing memory completely across the board would be next to impossible. A good in between nowadays is keeping a reserved part of memory that is done at the assembly level, while the rest is done by the system itself.

Memory management on the level that's you're talking about is really a trade skill. One that all devs have to have a bit of understanding on, but those that really excel usually focus only on that. It's not unlike those who make graphics tools. They're highly skilled in that area, usually specialize in it, and are paid quite a lot because they're in demand and short in supply. Plus, since those skills extend well outside the gaming industry, they can usually make a lot more working for other types of software developers which handle system software, instead of general use software.

[timotim]

Loved Outer Worlds! RPG of the year 2019 imo. Beat it on Windows 10, in the process of completing again on the X. However, I'm more interested in what Obsidian is working on next. I hear its a very ambitious AAA action RPG and with the talent they been hiring lately, I know its going to be great.

[steven_seagull]

Found the Obsidian employee

[timotim]

Because I loved the game???

[isarai]

Pretty sure it's lower budget is what defined its smaller scale, there are plenty of other examples of similar games with grander scale.

[i3eyond the Circle]

With a 1st party budget and the next one most likely falling outside the 2year cross gen threshold I think they’ll knock it out the park with part 2

[ufo8mycat]

It's funny how they are blaming the current gen hardware for limiting their full vision for this game, yet games like The Witcher 3 prove otherwise.

It is obvious the games full vision was limited by budget and developer talent, in this case, the lack of talent, plain and simple. There are far more technical and expansive game worlds, with a much greater vision then The Outer Worlds, like The Witcher 3, which had no issues with current gen hardware limiting their vision.

Even Fallout 4 had a bigger, more expansive vision and world then The Outer Worlds.

You could tell the 'level of talent' from these developers and the budget, as great as a game The Outer Worlds was, it felt like a 'AA' title.

[MadLad]

Seems you're really trying to cement the idea that the team, themselves, aren't good at why they do; aka less than "talented"
A very small team was able to deliver an experience closer to what rpg fans have wanted from the Fallout series than a 300+ team like Bethesda has managed, while creating a new universe in the process.

They are most definitely talented, but the scope of the game was limited by manpower and funding. New Vegas was the result of a very short development cycle afforded to Obsidian, yet it now is held as the fan favorite of the Fallout series. Was it glitchy? Sure; but that's a result of said short development time, combined with working with a known problematic engine. Obsidian now has MS money, so I'd be surprised if their first major rpg release isn't going to be game of the year material, considering their rushed games, developed on a budget, were sometimes game of the year candidates.

[OhReginald]

Oh shush, outter worlds could have EASILY released last gen( ps3, 360 era).

[King_Noctis]

This could be applied to almost any game you know.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

I played the Outer Worlds on my base Xbox One around the same time as Gears 5. The difference in graphical and asset quality between the two games is massive. The two titles look almost a full generation apart, despite being running on the same engine. The Outer, is arguably less impressive than Fallout 4 from a technical stand point. Fallout 4 had a more impressive and dynamic world than the Outer Worlds.

[MadLad]

Fallout 4 also had 10x the hands on it, and a budget that could have made another 5 Outer Worlds lol.

[TheGamez100]

And boy am I glad were heading into next gen soon. Current gen is very outdated at this point.

[FanboyPolice]

Have you tried PC

[Elda]

They should have waited.

[VerminSC]

Bullshit. If god of war, the Witcher 3, the last of us, rdr2 can do it. You can too.

[GTgamer]

Wellllll God of War had allot of work arounds hell in the behind the scenes they showed how big they wanted to make places you had to visit and it made me really excited for the sequel. Hell Guirella games said they had things they wanted to do in horizon zero dawn but the ps4 couldn't handle it 😢 one of those things was being able to fly the stormbird.

[sampsonon]

Yes, but they still did thing head and shoulders above The Outer Worlds.
That's the Point Vermin is making, and i 100% agree.

They need to stop being lazy and do the work.

[GTgamer]

@sampsonon
Most definitely but just because you have bigger teams and bigger budgets doesn't mean roadblocks from the hardware go away why do you think assassins creed ain't try to do the crowds from unity again and I'm still waiting for new watch dogs that actually looks like the first watch dogs reveal 😂😂😂. Either you find work arounds or you call it a day obsidian said let's call it a day.

[sampsonon]

@Ouchthhurtz Obsidian makes games people hardly even look at. They aren't that talented and people don't really care about their games or they would sell. Sony hires the best in the industry to make games. Obsidian isn't one of them. They fit MS future in making cheap A and AA games for a garbage service that is there for volume not quality. So Obsidian fits right in.

[MadLad]

@sampsonon

Obsidian is comprised of people who have been working in the industry since the early 90s. They helmed multiple studios that classic crpg fans hold in high regard. They are the minds that brought you Fallout, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Planescape Torment.

Those under Troika delivered Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.

As Obsidian they delivered Kotor 2, New Vegas, Pillars of Ternity, Tyranny.

They're God-tier rpg developers who managed to stay alive for decades, despite low budgets and small development windows.

They were bought because they're a dedicated studio who have proven themselves, you twit. Sorry you isolate yourself to only things Sony makes, but there are other great studios out there. Some even now owned by MS.

[timotim]

All of those games you mentioned, all had a much higher budget and 100s of people working on them. Those games all cost more and had more man power behind them...yet Outer Worlds still came in rated an 85 and won awards...imagine what they could do with a bigger budget and more man power...

[rainslacker]

GOW had a pretty modest budget for a AAA game. I wouldn't be surprised if the budget for TOW was close to it. Sony seems to have a penchant for making games with a rather large scope with high quality with a low budget. H:ZD was 40 million development budget. GOW was 50 million. Spider-Man was 50 million. TOW was probably in the 30-50 million range given the general trends in the industry.

I think the biggest thing with TOW was more the resources they had to put into it. Having money, and being able to spend it on talent aren't the same thing, and TOW had a relatively small development team. They accomplished a lot IMO, but they obviously are still working off more expensive game budget paradigms which are more wasteful.

[timotim]

You might not be surprised, but I would be very surprised. In the case of God of War...lets keep in mind that Santa Monica could focus their whole work force towards one platform - PS4, while Obsidian has to deal with two consoles (with a third on the way) and PC. Not only were they smaller in man power and budget, but also had to spread that workforce thinner between more platforms. This is the reason for that sense of scale.

Again, Obsidian is going to be a problem next gen. They have been hiring like crazy and will now have more of a focus from the onset and can drop two of those platforms in PS4 and Switch going forward. With the higher budget Microsoft is going to give them and the talent they acquire, I totally expect their next game to display that sense of scale the author speaks of. Speaking of God of War, InXile recently hired their lead combat designer...every studio under XGS has been expanding and improving their talent pool and now their budgets are only going to get bigger. They also have enough studios where they can take more time to deliver on their visions.

[sampsonon]

Sht on currant gen all you want, but this gen had some of the best games ever made. PS4's library of games were stellar, and they kept coming. Even in its last yr it had, i say had because we don't know what's going to happen, 3 AAA games to end the gen.

Every gen the complaint is the same.

And the outer worlds graphics were sht compared to games like Horizon and God Of War. I won't even need to talk about The Last Of Us 2.

[MadLad]

Golly gee. Are you telling me a multiplatform game, made by a team of 30 (at most), on a shoestring budget, didn't hit the graphical prowess of 1st party releases, with hundreds of developers and a much larger budget? Color me surprised there!

[sampsonon]

I am not the one complaining, they are. Just because they cannot accomplish what they want doesn't mean that others cannot using the same hardware. This is what they are saying. This gen held back what they wanted to do. So i mention what devs that work for Sony did making stellar games, with big lush open worlds, Horizon, and now the reason they couldn't do what they wanted is because of time, money and the amount of people working on it?Which means my point is proven that it has nothing to do with the hardware, instead it's the resources.
By the way Ninja Theory made a great looking game with a small team in Hellblade. No excuses.

If they want to complain, they should complain about their lack of funding and man power instead of blaming this gen for their own inability to create a better product.

Golly Gee.

[Anomander]

But that's what remakes are for!

[chiefJohn117]

Make a next gen version

[Poopmist]

It seems like more of a problem with Obsidian's programmers than anything tbh. They make great stories and dialogue though

[XxINFERNUSxX]

Hello, you could have pushed the PC, and not hold back there at all. We have nice AMD Ryzen CPUs now you could have you know taken advantage of all those cores. LOL Ray tracing is not for me but you could have added that as well for the PC version. What's the point of AMD, Intel and nvidia pushing all this tech if it just going to not even sweat, or devs not taking full advantage of it.

[AuraAbjure]

Yeah CD Projekt Red is saying the same thing with CyberPunk 2077.

[Magog]

No one has an 8k TV and no one wants one. The rendering target will remain the same. The only space where it will be bumped is for VR.

[BrainSyphoned]

“Our game is so underpowered we had to sell it on Epic”

[feenix-5]

It's fantastic as is, quit yer bitching

[AK91]

Bring on next gen then I can’t wait to see what Devs make with the new hardware.

[Asuka]

Don't mind me. I'm just here enjoying all these insightful armchair developers spew absolute nonsense in the comments 🍿 probably my favorite thing about a new gen launch...

[Lilrizky]

I can actually see that

[Ausbo]

Obsidian also said that time and budget was an issue when they were interviewed by gameinformer.

Remember, private division doesn’t usually fund AAA games. They are generally an indie publisher, despite being a 2K subsidiary

Expect outer words 2 to be next gen exclusive and have much more time and money to use that power to the full extent. With that said, obsidian is necessarily known for their technical prowess.

[franwex]

What?
Yet Rockstar can run GTA5 on consoles that have 512 MB RAM?

Outer Worlds was cool, but I’m not sure they were that held back.

[glennhkboy]

it is always nice to imagine "what if I get......" . "What if I have a trillion dollars, then I could have own the world!" But the hard truth is, we all need to work on what we have on-hand. At the time of development, I believe those current-gen tools was the best Cerny & co could have. This was the best they could do on a finite budget & a proven (stable) tool. They should be proud of that.

[oasdada]

It looks bad even fot current gen standards so wth are you saying

[SinisterKieran]

This applies for every multi platform game. But tbh, I don’t fully believe it, there have been way more technically impressive games that have come out this generation on console. Outer worlds is a amazing RPG but it’s not pushing limits.

[2ndhandcorn]

Love scfi but dislike menu heavy games with crafting and crap so i tried it at least , same as savage planet just felt slow thanks gamepass .

[Games1st]

Next gen frees up a lot of limitations, and will create a better time to quality scale.

[Cobra951]

It could have been more where it counts--content. And the current consoles would not have stopped that. They're a small developer group, and didn't have the resources to make a more sprawling game like Fallout 4. That's the real story with this game. It beat the crap out of Bethesda's efforts graphically, but it's a smaller game.

[jonivtec]

current gen held back games since their launch....underpowered tech at launch...
Not a hasard sony and microsoft released a suit up version after 2 or 3 years...

[Curtis_Lee]

nice

[DafunkyRebel]

Death Stranding was a massive open world and the graphics were amazing. Almost next gen, yet no fps drop. The problem I think is just memory allocation or developers not knowledgeable enough to make it work.

[Miraak82]

I can’t wait when I can instantly travel in games ... you know like seeing a portal and seeing what’s on the other side and jumping thru it seamlessly or time traveling between two versions of the same world in the blink of an eye .

[antikbaka]

problems of outer worlds are hardly connected with any generation of console. It's all about low budget.

[jznrpg]

No kidding

[BioShockGX]

Boring game whether you release it on current or next gen.

[mastershredder]

This is not a hardware generation issue, its straight up the team and the overall design of the game on this one. Underneath, it's archaic at best (and would marry a myriad of older console hardware quite well). I'm kinda insulted by quality the outcome of game, and I'm not even going to pretend that this was their best effort. WTF Obsidian?

[GameStallion]

I felt like i was in a constant loading screen, but pretty fun game. 7/10