Xbox Series X has Strong Momentum Backed by Having the More Powerful Console

Gamerheadquarters; "Well, it’s official that the Xbox Series X is the more powerful console ever and it does have significant momentum behind it through numerous features such as proper backwards compatibility. "

[lifeisgamesok]

There's no greater momentum than momentum that comes from great games. PlayStation got that in spades

PS4
Persona Royal: 96
Dreams: 88
Nioh 2: 86
TLOU Part II:
Ghost of Tsushima:
Final Fantasy 7:

[NecrumOddBoy]

I think common sense right out the window today. XSX has 1.62 more TFs so it's been PS5 is DOOOOOOMED! Sony dominates because they have great games and a different vision.

[Jin_Sakai]

I think the Series X is a better console but I’ll wait until I see some next generation games in action before making judgment.

[Zool 08]

People who go on about teraflops it's not always cut and dry
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[TheKingKratos]

Sure, 15% in gpu power is equal to almost 2 teraflops...it is also still 'just' 15%. The difference between PS4 and Xbox One was 40%. The difference between the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro was 42% (give or take).
And DF new video talked about how that TF is not everything and there is much more than that to playstation 5 and it's a beast of a system just like xboxsx

So yeah, it's a difference of around 15% which certainly shouldn't be downplayed, but shouldn't be made bigger than it actually is either. We also still don't have a clue what this all means for actual game performance.

What i do understand and care about much more is who push their systems and i have no doubt that Sony 1st party will push Ps5 to it limit

[chiefJohn117]

@King it maybe be 15% but the raw number itself is the difference before the X and the pro. The OGs was 0.5tf difference that that 40% = Just half a flop that's nothing compared to 15%=1.8-2 tflops

[TheKingKratos]

Cigi

This is not true
Like i said in another topic
"
Where is this notion that PS5 can't maintain 10.28TF for long coming from? Its not running on battery and Cerny did say in his video that cooling is designed for max load so it doesn't go into overdrive like Pro. Just because it throttles down when not required doesn't mean it can't run at max speed at all times. Have people seen how their GPUs behave in a PC? Feels like I'm taking crazy pills here."

[alb1899]

Nop, the difference is about 3 terraflops.
Ps5 can just maintain between 8 to 9.2 terraflops and with a boost and overheating the console can reach 10.2 terraflops that's why is variable. Developers can't use 10 terraflops on the ps5 because your new console will burn as the sun. Even if it does, the energy consumption and the sound of the console will be horrible.
The 12.125 terraflops of SX are LOCKED!!

[Vega75]

@ King. It's not 15% difference between the xbox series X and ps5. Try 28 % just in Tflops. Let alone better Ray Tracing, beter bandwidth, better CPU, and VRS since sony spoke of none of those beside SSD. He tried to fool everyone with 10.2 Tflops. But that's boost mode which isn't sustain and will barely ever be used to hide that the system is actually 9.2 Tflops as the github leak suggests.

Sony and their fans are trying to spin it like it's no big deal. But it actually is. Not saying the ps5 is a bad system cause it's not. It's very good and should go for a low price point. But let's not run with it only being 15% difference when it's much more.

[TheKingKratos]

"Ps5 can just maintain between 8 to 9.2 terraflops"

Yeah, i need you to show me where in Cerny or DF videos where this was stated ,you lost me and i stopped reading here tbh

[Unspoken]

Sorry but the tech in the Xbox is much more than just 1.62 TF total. But you keep telling yourself that. Dey have games!

[fiveby9]

There is no doubt that PS5 is day 1. MS has said nothing that makes their next console a day 1 purchase. No exclusives all games will run on my X1x. Why buy the next XB right away? Nobody will ever notice what 1.62 TF means in a game. X1x is still more powerful than PS4 Pro today. But who cares? Nobody. The problem MS has and will continue to have is their games lineup is not as good.

[jerethdagryphon]

1.62 isn't that much difference. Also remember that Sony has a custom set of microcores more or less solely handling input output and a 3d audio chip with its own core

[Silly Mammo]

But the flops, man! The FLOPS!!!

[darthv72]

You guys are so petty. Just accept that both have pros and cons. Sony has really talented studios who make great games. MS has really talented studios who make great games.

Im excited for both and its not gonna be cheap but it will be worth every penny of that $2k trump check.

[Kumakai]

Ms is coming into gen 9 a lot stronger. They have tons of first party studios all cranking. The argument of la k of exclusive. Will be left in gen 8 and if you disagree, that’s just wishful thinking on the part of the Sony loyalist. Not saying Xbox will win gen9. But they have a lot more opportunity to this time.

[3-4-5]

10 TFlops is the ceiling for PS5 though...power stays full but clock speed will decrease when needed which will lower those TFLOPS to about 8.5-9.5 on occasion where as XS stays at 12 TLOPS consistently.

Either way, I'm eventually getting both. XS first and then PS5, but both have me really excited.

[lifeisgamesok]

Yeah, power can only get you so far in the game's industry

[slavish0]

Damage control bro😂

[GaboonViper]

Plus all those will release on PC.

[GamingIVfun]

My thought is that both systems are beasts as far as consoles go. The Xbox X series being slightly more powerful with the GPU, but not enough difference in CPU to make any difference. So you may get games that run 4, 5 maybe more frames faster, but my guess is that most games will have a locked frame rate of either 30 or 60 frames anyway, most probably being locked at 60 FPS. It's not the huge difference that was between PS4 and Xbox 1. I think Sony is going with trying to strike a balance between power and diminishing returns, there's a point where things are so powerful that minor differences in power show very little difference.

[Christopher]

It's funny how hypocritical both sides are being compared to PS4/XBO. It's almost like they switch arguments with one another or something.

[lifeisgamesok]

It's called being real :)

[extermin8or]

@christopher: It isn't hypocrisy. People went on about the xbox one's power difference because it was 40% less powerful AND more money. That's the key it was a bigger power difference AND 100 pounds more.

[Christopher]

@extermin8or: Let me help you out.

2013:

Playstation: "We're more powerful!"
Xbox: "We've got the games."
Playstation: "We have games too!"
Xbox: "Our games will see us through the power difference. Also, DX12 and Cloud Computing."

2020:

Xbox: "We're more powerful!"
Playstation: "We've got the games."
Xbox: "We've got games too!"
Playstation: "Our games will see us through the power difference. Also, Super SSD and CU size and variable rate in always boost mode."

[Automatic79]

@lifegamesok

Both systems bringing great games. However, don't underestimate Xbox lineup.

Xbox One
Phantasy Star Online 2
Ori and Will of Wisp
Bleeding Edge
Blessed Unleashed
Gears Tactics
Wasteland 3
Tell Me Why

Many saying they want to See Xbox Series X Next Generation of Games

Halo Infinite
Forza Motorsport 8
Flight Simulator
EverWild
CrossFire X
Psychonauts 2
HellBlade Senua's Saga
Age of Empire IV
Project Mara

Xbox is going to bring a deep diverse lineup of games. We still don't have the full picture.

[CaptainHenry916]

None of these games stands out except for Ori and maybe old Halo in my opinion. I actually thought HellBlade wasn't that great very repetitive and not enough depth in the gameplay or story. It was good but not great. Graphics was awesome though. I wouldn't buy a Xbox after looking at this list just saying and being honest. I need something bigger and better. Give me a new mechassault or fable or something new that will blow me away

[Smclaren1985]

I will prob get both but Microsoft need to do a hell of a lot more than these games above

[mark_parch]

I can't wait to see the rpg games playground and obsideon are working on.

[mark_parch]

@gamersday08
Just because games will be also be available on xbox one doesn't mean they can't take advantage of series x lol.

[C-H-E-F]

@Automatic79 You forgot to mention that every Xbox (exclusive) is technically a Microsoft exclusive... So being a Proud Playstation + Gaming PC owner, the reason to buy an Xbox is pointless. If you really care about "power" then you wouldn't be buying an xbox series anything LMAO. I care about gaming, and owning the best games, I also, love playing certain games at the highest possible graphical setting. So yes, I buy multiplats twice and playstation exclusives.

[Melankolis]

I see all those disagrees, it was different from back in the day pre-PS4 launch. Somehow, Xbox fanboys getting stronger for the past few years.

[TommyVercetti88]

@gamersday08 that's not true they invented smart delivery for example you can play Halo Infinite on the XSX with Raytracing in 4k@120fps ultra textures.

[xTonyMontana]

Exactly, take your TFs, I'll take those games instead thanks.

[chiefJohn117]

I'll take both

[CrimsonWing69]

So if Xsex gets “Good” exclusives then it’s officially the better console?

[CaptainHenry916]

I've heard they'll get better exclusives for almost 20 years now. Not easy to do unfortunately

[kneon]

No, they need to have great exclusives, and that won't happen.

Even if they manage to put out one or two truly great games then why would I bother to get an xbox when I can already play all their games on one of my PCs

[CaptainHenry916]

I would buy a playstation console for these games. You see that's the difference between Playstation and Xbox. I bought a Nintendo Switch just because of Zelda and Mario

[Jsm89k]

You talking about this Gen or the next one? This article is about next Gen

[TommyVercetti88]

1.boring with a lot of talking
2.why play low budget games when GTA6 is coming.
3.multiplatform
4.lesbian zombie game
5.only good game in this list.
6.boring fantasy game for little childeren.

[lifeisgamesok]

You're delusional

[Unspoken]

Wow, I don't want play any of those, whats next?

[s8anicslayer]

Funny how these people keep downplaying the ssd speed and bandwidth power in the ps5. In worse case scenario here like between the PS3 and 360 the United States will lead the race but the ps5 the rest of the world except maybe the UK. Overall the PS5 will come out on top but not much. Unless Microsoft
Comes out with some really new Ip’s those extra teraflops are meaningless. Regardless I’ll get both and enjoy all systems but you fanboys on both sides really need to get a grip.

[pwnmaster3000]

It really is all about the games. Tbh the average consumer don’t care or even look at the specs but more on the games. I have people here at my job who literally thinks ps4 pro is more powerful then the Xbox.

So at the end of the day is all about the price and games.

I think both console is pretty strong, with the Xbox more powerful and tbh I don’t see it being a factor on who sells more. History shows that it doesn’t really mater.

360 was les powerful and it sold better then the ps3 at first and ps4 was less powerful then the X but still outsold it.

Specs is really just about the fanboys really but in reality they are both pretty good consoles.

[SitRep_Critical]

absolutely!

[Kumakai]

You obviously didn’t read the article. And FYI those are all ps4 games you’re listing as we go into a brand new generation where MS has 16 first party studios all working at capacity.

Yeah. Sony won gen 8. But we are looking at gen 9 now and ms feels more prepped for the future.

[lifeisgamesok]

Sony has the better studios by far

[Elda]

Exactly. Something that is the number 1 reason to own a console are the special games it has.

[S2Killinit]

All of a sudden we are to forget the past 8 years (and then some).

[TheHan]

To each their own but most of those games aren’t that appealing.

[Spurg]

How many of those are PS5 games?

[phallusitator]

I see it like this:

Xbox = Wulfgar
PS = Drizzt

Both great. One stronger, one faster...

[TheSaint]

Just like every gen it's the games that define the gen.

[isarai]

Didn't know coming in last, and even being outsold by a competitor in half the lifespan, was considered "Strong Momentum", but hey dont let me stop this massive circle jerk you guys got goin on, you do you, imma do me.

[ChrisW]

Yes... The DreamCast (which was powered by Windows) was better and more powerful than the PS1, but still lost.

The multi-billion dollar question of the day (because that's what both parties are spending) is have they learnt their lesson? My guess? Meh, maybe not. But will it make things interesting? I sure do hope so! A stale market is lame and no one likes a stale market!!!

[Imalwaysright]

Dreamcast was a 6th gen console, the same gen as the PS2 and was weaker than it but the PS2 was also weaker than the GC and Xbox and still sold 3 times more than all the other 3 consoles of its gen combined. The most powerful console in any given gen has never won a generation.

[Minute Man 721]

What really pushed the PS2 was all those shady deals Sony had with 3rd party devs to only release their games on PS2 if they want a slice of that 100 million plus user base PS1 players switching over to PS2.

[solideagle]

I think people forgot PS2 generation when Sony had a considerable weaker console <-- it was all about games
I think people forgot PS3 generation when Sony had a considerable difficult console <-- it was all about games
I think people forgot PS4 generation when Sony had a considerable powerful console <-- it was all about games

PS5 <-- it will be all about games :)

Having said that MS has a really powerful console and 10+ studios which is a great competition. people who buys both consoles are in a treat but some of us can only afford 1 console <-- it was all about games

[Saigon]

That is true but the part that people are confused on is the variable CPU and GPU. I understand what it means after I listened to Sony's presentation and it wasn't what I originally thought just from reading the articles on the web. Many people think the variable CPU and GPU will decrease the TF count and that is untrue. From the way it was explain the system will reduce the stressful situations that incurred during the PS4 Pro, the air plane noises, without loss of standard processing. If I am not mistaken some PC GPUs currently use this method to reduce stress. This is actually ingenious to apply into a home console. I think once everyone grasp this, some will start asking MS questions about what it is going to do to make sure their system does not incur these bottlenecks since the are working with more CUs (Sony using less CUs was also very smart).

My whole point is that I am starting to see Sony's PS5 design was well more thought out then what everyone thinks. They didn't just put together a system and label it, they put together a well thought out system that PCs may use in the future.

[JackBNimble]

It's a new race when these consoles release, MS lost huge amount of fans and momentum because of E3 2013.

That's not going to happen again so I wouldn't be so confident about a sure win for Sony next gen. Remember where arrogance got Sony with the ps3, they struggled all that Gen just to keep up.

[Unspoken]

Don't be upset. It's ok to have inferior hardware and a limited supply of games coming to PC. Everything will be ok and your gamerhood is still intact.

[CaptainObvious878]

I see gaming "journalists" have already started the shill campaign for ms already and that's to the 15% more power the xbone trolls are coming out from their bridges in droves.

As for me, I'll be going with the company that has a history of supporting it's console for more than just half a generation.

[JackBNimble]

Is that the console with BC going back multiple generations?

[CaptainObvious878]

It's the one with actual new exclusive games being released in the first 2 years.

You're heard of exclusives haven't you?

What about new game releases? I'm sure you know what they are, right? Or do you just buy a new console to play old games?

[fonger08]

Fanboys: “My system is more powerful!” “My system is faster!”
Me: “Annnd preordering both. Hooray for adulting!”

[anonymousfan]

Good for you but do you realize that in the current situation our economies will be seriously crippled by the time these release and most folks wont have the money to buy either?

[JackBNimble]

One can dream

[Unspoken]

There will be a payment plan from Microsoft for the Series X. :)

[anonymousfan]

@JackBNimble I share the same dream man!! I am not worried about my job (I work in a hospital) but I hope everything will have cleared by next holiday so all we have to worry about then is video games.

[fonger08]

While I understand completely the current economic situation, I do not believe that this, defending/loyalty/fanboyism, would be any different prior to any launch of any system. Since it happens, every... single... time.

[EazyC]

I envy your economic situation, I consider my job quite well paying but damn, I would need serious disposable to justify that kind of spending. Especially considering how unnecessary it would be have been to do this gen (ie buying a PS4 AND XB1 at launch)

[fonger08]

I probably won’t buy both at launch. I’ll probably try and stagger it like I did the PS4 and then a couple months later the Xbox one. I’m truly fortunate to have the ability to have a fair amount of income to buy any system I want, but outside of a having a family of my own, that was my biggest wish/want growing up.

[Tross]

Under most circumstances, I don't think I would call buying game consoles adulting. But, adulting all the time is overrated.

[lelo2play]

... Now it all comes down to price ...

[RazzerRedux]

Exactly. Sony may have the last laugh if they undercut Xbox by $100 yet again. That is a big if though. If they got too cute with SSD speeds and cooling solutions for high frequency GPU that brings the price right back up to XSX level then what was the point? They would have been better off matching XSX in every spec if there is no price difference. Surely that isn't the case though......right?

[CaptainHenry916]

@Echo

That $449 price would still make a big difference. You better hope it's not. I still believe it will be cheaper even if Sony decides to take a loss. I believe they want it to be cheaper anyway just like the start of this gen

[shiva1]

Basically i see a stealth fighter Vs jumbo jet. Be prepared to take off on ps5 with a lot of wind and noise.

[Father__Merrin]

theres zero momentum from xbox its just that they have shown everything. just wait till initial sales come through it will be clear which console most people want. this power TF thing just watch DF new video about it even they say the TF number isnt everything, the whole unit the ps5 is brilliant but so is the series x we will have to wait and see which has better looking games

[Az1ner]

True hater right here. Team Xbox been transparent and clear in their message. Next is revealing what all those 16 teams been up too.

[jerethdagryphon]

The key is bandwidth Sony has almost double bandwidth on drive meaning that drive can litterly act like ram. About 400 gig of ram. Listen to cerny what he says about input output most of you only years core count speed and such.
Sony always let's cerny do what he wants and the man is very clever with tech

[Skiitzer]

400gig of ram ... oh man sry, but you have no clue what you are talking about! Really!
Please research fundamental logic of the inner parts and then go crazy^^
There is no magic SSD in it! Its "only" ultra fast! And thats good!
Games on Series X will always be prettier/sharper! Period! Will it be crazy prettier ... njaaa!!!
Will the PS5 load faster ... njaaa!!!
Dont panic ... the ps5 will be great for pretty gaming!
But im a xbot, so i will be happy with my purchase too!

[PyroMessiah86]

Xbox Series X is a locked 12TF, and Playstation 5 is boosted to 10TF and variable. Meaning the majority of the time it will run around 9Tf else otherwise will sound like a jet engine....so the power difference is actually greater overall.

Xbox: Better GPU, CPU, RAM, Dedicated Audio Chip, Dedicated Ray Tracing Solution, VRS

Playstation 5: Better SSD

Well done Xbox! With 16 new studios, launching with Halo Infinite, Gamepass absolutely killing it every month, xcloud....things are looking great!!

[RazzerRedux]

"Xbox Series X is a locked 12TF, and Playstation 5 is boosted to 10TF and variable. Meaning the majority of the time it will run around 9Tf else otherwise will sound like a jet engine....so the power difference is actually greater overall."

TF is locked, period. The teraflop measurement isn't like frame per second that varies constantly. It is a measurement of the compute capability of the GPU. The TF measurement does not vary. It is what it is. Every GPU on the market has a base clock and a boost clock. The TF of the GPU is derived from the boost clock.

[ReadyPlayer22]

You are dead wrong. Teraflops literally change with the frequency of the clock. If the frequency of the CUs goes down the CUs cannot calculate as much work and their Teraflops decrease. That's why th calculation for Teraflops HAS clock frequency in it.

[RazzerRedux]

@ReadyPlayer22

We use TF to gauge "Theoretical Performance" of a GPU. So tell me what the TF is for a RTX 2080 Super?

Base Clock 1650 MHz
Boost Clock 1815 MHz
FP32 (float) performance 11.15 TFLOPS
Notice the range of frequency and yet no range of TF at all. This is standard. it is the theoretical performance capability of the GPU. Its max, not average or range. A single number.

The rest of the computer world is using the highest frequency (Boost clock) possible to determine the TF of the GPU. Suddenly with the PS5, that all goes out the window? No...sorry. You don't get to change the rules when you see fit. That is fanboy nonsense.

https://www.techpowerup.com...

[ReadyPlayer22]

You can use the highest frequency, if it stayed at that frequency. Microsoft made a point of consistent frequency because the performance doesn't change. Especially when the PS5 has to CHOOSE whether to upclock the CPU or GPU. So no, you can have 10.3 TFlops, but the frequency is never always going to be that and thus you're not getting a true 10 flops. Upclocking will always give you more performance, it's obvious Sony tried to get their 9.2 flop console to a 10.2 once they learned about the Series X.

[RazzerRedux]

The clock is 2.23 GHZ and that is simply a fact. The frequency downclocks only when the power limit is exceeded. The GPU can reduce 10% power by downclocking frequency 2%. That brings the frequency down to 2.19 GHz. Somehow you are under the delusion that this transforms the GPU from 10.2 TF to 9.2 TF.

"When that worst case game arrives, it will run at a lower clock speed. But not too much lower, to reduce power by 10 per cent it only takes a couple of percent reduction in frequency, so I'd expect any downclocking to be pretty minor," he explains. "All things considered, the change to a variable frequency approach will show significant gains for PlayStation gamers."
https://www.eurogamer.net/a...

Look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Notice the frequency variance of the GPU? There is a reason for that.

"A GPU will generally boost only if a game or program requires additional power. This was introduced after nVidia's rocky (and somewhat hated) GTX 400-series Fermi launch, which was one of the hottest GPUs ever made. A variable clock speed means that the GPU isn't running at full-throttle constantly, ensuring more gradual power consumption and thermal activity.

If the GPU has exceeded its thermal target (defined manually within software like Precision, if not using the default settings), it will throttle the clock speeds automatically until the GPU reaches a point at which the temperatures are under control. This is why some users experience lower FPS than reported by benchmarks and product pages and also why logging software will report dips in clockrate.

Boost will also make clock modifications based upon power target. If a user has specified a lower power draw for conservation or thermal reasons, the GPU will throttle any time that wattage is met or exceeded. Similarly, Boost will ensure that the GPU doesn't clock-up just because it has room to do so; in theory, the clockrate will remain tempered until the game actually demands additional processing power to maintain a high framerate."
https://www.gamersnexus.net...

Done here.

[Wasabi]

@Razzer

**"Done Here"**

The Eurogamer article you linked features a video (Digital Foundry) that explicitly states that the GPU found in PS5 is the same GPU (Oberon) from the Github leak last year, same CU count, same amount of memory, same 256 bit memory bus, same memory bandwidth - so that's a massive fail right there.

Tom Warren Senior editor at the Verge.

**"It's gonna be interesting to see how often the PS5 GPU and CPU clocks run at their top frequencies. It looks like the "real" performance of the PS5 will be in the 9TF area, and Microsoft is claiming sustained 12TF performance on the Xbox Series X. There's always gonna be a gap"**

Source:

https://twitter.com/tomwarr...

[RazzerRedux]

Ugh.....The Verge editor? Yeah....the verge is openly mocked in the PC community for their horrible "how to build a PC" video on youtube. Either way, he is blatantly speculating and probably regurgitating things he is reading elsewhere as there actually is a lot of debate on this subject.

https://www.youtube.com/res...

I searched the DF article for "leak", "oberon", and "github" and found nothing. Please provide the quote.

[Wasabi]

@Razzer

**"Ugh.....The Verge editor? Yeah....the verge is openly mocked in the PC community for their horrible "how to build a PC" video on youtube"**

Then it's a good job we're not discussing how to build a PC.

**"he is blatantly speculating and probably regurgitating things he is reading elsewhere as there actually is a lot of debate on this subject"**

Much as you are doing.

If there is debate then it's clearly not cut and dry as you are suggesting. The fact that multiple users are telling you that you are incorrect and have provided numerous examples of why you are incorrect yet still you persist in pushing this across multiple articles should tell you something.

**"I searched the DF article for "leak", "oberon", and "github" and found nothing. Please provide the quote"**

The information is in the video you linked as part of the Digital Foundry article. I stated this in my original comment.

[RazzerRedux]

"Much as you are doing."

Ok....and you too then. As are we all. None of us have the hardware to test, now do we?

I never said there was no debate on the matter. That was you. "this isn't a subject open to debate"

And yet here you are...debating.

"The fact that multiple users are telling you that you are incorrect and have provided numerous examples of why you are incorrect yet still you persist in pushing this across multiple articles should tell you something."

I firmly believe in my position on this and I'm backing it up. You've refuted nothing I've stated. And the number of people disagreeing with me is not a valid argument. Might as well go with upvotes to determine who is correct.

"The information is in the video you linked as part of the Digital Foundry article. I stated this in my original comment."

Give me a timestamp in the video then.

[Wasabi]

@Razzer

**"Give me a timestamp in the video then"**

It's referenced multiple times throughout the video however..

4:15 - Richard Linneman states - in line with what we say from leak minus the boosted clocks

9:35 - Richard Lineman covers size of GDDR6 memory, bandwidth and speed and states " This was all included in the AMD test Leak"

Here's the leak

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Leaked - Series X at 12.1 TF
Leaked - PS5 GPU "what is almost certainly the PS5 Graphics chip"

Article - specifies

GPU Codename
Backward Compatibility Frequencies
Memory Bandwidth
Memory Capacity
Memory Frequencies

Original Leak Komachi Ensaka - confirmed 100% accurate

https://twitter.com/KOMACHI...

Do the math

36 Compute Units (36) Multiplied by Shader Cores (64x2 - 128) x GPU Frequency (2GHz) = 9.2TF (leak)
36 Compute Units (36) Multiplied by shader Cores (64x2 - 128) x GPU Frequency (2.23GHz) = 10.23 (Reveal)

How you can even try and question that this is not the same hardware is beyond me.

[RazzerRedux]

"(Digital Foundry) that explicitly states that the GPU found in PS5 is the same GPU (Oberon) from the Github leak last year"

So no, he never "explicitly" stated that at all. He said they were "in line" and he highlights the difference in clocks. So yeah, he is right there with what I have said. Thanks for the confirmation.

"36 Compute Units (36) Multiplied by Shader Cores (64x2 - 128) x GPU Frequency (2GHz) = 9.2TF (leak)
36 Compute Units (36) Multiplied by shader Cores (64x2 - 128) x GPU Frequency (2.23GHz) = 10.23 (Reveal)

How you can even try and question that this is not the same hardware is beyond me."

I'm questioning this nonsense that the leak was 100% correct when what you just laid out there shows the very difference I am highlighting. 2GHz <> 2.23GHz. The leak got CUs right and the clock wrong. That is the entirety of my argument. You and others speculating that it will drop down so much that the GPU is effectively 9.2TF is at odds with Cerny's own words. You can keep pretending this assumed massive downclocking is fact based but it isn't.

You've proven my argument. Buh-bye

[Wasabi]

@Razzer

**"The leak got CUs right and the clock wrong"**

Lol, It's a boost clock, it's variable.

PS4 backwards compatible frequency - Correct
PS4 Pro BC Frequency - Correct
Memory Size - Correct
Memory Bandwidth - Correct
CU count - Correct
Performance per MHz - Correct

**"TF is locked, period. The teraflop measurement isn't like frame per second that varies constantly"**

No. The TF measurement varies constantly when a boost clock is used.

2GHz with 36 CU's = 9.2
2.1 with 36 CU's = 9.67 (example not representative)

**"You and others speculating that it will drop down so much that the GPU is effectively 9.2TF is at odds with Cerny's own words"**

I've not said once that the GPU will drop to 9.2TF. I HAVE said its the same part as leaked in the Github leak, and it is. performance per MHz it's the same chip, in all respects the leak was correct.

Myself, ReadyPlayer22, Septic and others have all pointed out to you that you are incorrect and provided examples of why this is so. The fact that you still maintain your ridiculous argument and insist you are right in the face of all the evidence to the contrary is laughable at this point.

[Unspoken]

Actually DF came to the conclusion it has an equivalent of 25 TF with the dedicated Ray Tracing hardware, unless they are completely off on this one, and Xbox can compute in not only 16 bit, but 8 bit as well as 4 bit in parallel. Who will dev in this manner? Only time will tell and I'm not sure if PS5 has the same tech inside but it's pretty clear Xbox has the nod in computational prowess. It's time to get over this one.

Kumbaya

[RazzerRedux]

"Myself, ReadyPlayer22, Septic and others have all pointed out to you that you are incorrect"

How many people would it take to convince you that the earth is flat? Ignorance in numbers is still ignorance.

[Wasabi]

@ReadyPlayer22

You are 💯 correct in what you are saying. Razzer is incorrect.

With a reduced frequency the GPU cannot hit its peak compute of 10.2TF.

On a variable clock GPU it's performance per MHz that is counted and in this respect it's performance per MHz is identical regardless of whether the GPU is ruining 10.2TF at 2.23GHz or 9.2TF at 2.0GHZ.

The GPU in PS5 is Oberon, exactly the same silicone as leaked on GitHub last year.

Same CU count, identical shader count per CU, the same TF performance of 9.2 at it's non boost clockspeed of 2GHz and exactly the same amount (16GB) and bandwidth (448GB/s) of GPU memory - all covered accurately by Digital Foundry via the Ensaka GitHub leak in December last year.

Razzer clearly does not understand how this isn't a subject open to debate, it's there in black and white for all to see - he refuses to acknowledge this, because doing so would mean having to admitt that he is wrong.

[jerethdagryphon]

Um ram is the same I think 16 gb gddr6 cpu almost identical on speed core count Sony 3d audio chip completely custom.. Or did you just ignore that part of it vr is also in sonys ststem

[Wasabi]

@Jereth

3D audio chip and VR has nothing to do with the compute performance of the Oberon GPU in PS5.

[FGHFGHFGH]

Graphics cards have had variable clock rates for a while. So when i watch you tube or my comps idling, it isn't running at full power. Only when i play games does it run at full spec, and it doesn't have a problem running like that for hours or even days. Xbox should do the same unless it uses a cheap power supply or controller chips

[IRetrouk]

That's exactly how cerny set it up, people dont seem to be getting it..

[CaptainHenry916]

"Xbox Series X has Strong Momentum Backed by Having the More Powerful Console"

Not with the price 🙊

[aconnellan]

Guess I missed the price reveal /s

Not saying this will happen, but the PS4 was more powerful and cheaper than the Xbox One at launch, so who’s to say Xbox can’t do the same?

[talocaca]

It will all come down to price. Average consumers don't understand / care about what a Teraflop is (otherwise the One X would be selling like crazy....and it isn't).

If Sony can undercut MS by $100 (not sure about $50), I would say they found a good balance between price and performance.

[BrainSyphoned]

American Muscle vs Exotic Supercar

One is the laughing stock of the world...

Go ahead and pull that IrocZ up to the store and get your Xbox

[Unspoken]

Wait, you've seen the new Corvette or did you go blind?

[Nodoze]

I think they both sound like a significant leap forward. I have PS4 Pro and X1X so looking forward to both. Forza Horizon on the new box should be amazing. Same for all the PS exclusives on the 5. They had me at NO LOADING. While graphics are great, there have been some titles this generation that take a freaking eternity to load. I for one look forward to giving the 1 finger salute to Loading... and get back to PLAYING!!

[anonymousfan]

One key difference in my opinion is that the series X may be more powerful its first party devs will be held back by current gen for another 2 years... We'll see :/

[GamingSinceForever]

As we speak XBox has the most powerful console with backwards compatibility, UHD BluRay and GamePass.
Matter of fact the advantage is larger right now.

How is that momentum going?

Come 1 year from now it will be business as usual. If they want to take advantage of the momentum they better drop some incredible heat.

[Thundercat77]

"Teraflops is a metric, it's not really equivalent to performance"
- Digital Foundry

When the final consoles are out and put to the test, many will be surprised that the PS5 will have better performance because of its smart architecture.

[Unspoken]

Lmfao, Digital Foundry has already said otherwise.

[Thundercat77]

Not true. Also, the developers community, the ones who actually know about this stuff, are calling the PS5 the superior system.

[Skiitzer]

Ehm no!
The PS will be looking good, but always be 2nd in terms of prettier/crispier graphics!
But thats ok!
The PS will be faster in loading times!
But that will be ok for the Series X too!
There is no magic in these boxes ... do a research how things really work and you will see it clearer!

[xenz]

I can agere that Xbox Series X has the better GPU, but you need to look at the full picture here.

PS5 has double the speed of SX in terms of SSD.
SX: 2.5GB/s (if I remember correctly)
PS5: 5GB/s.
As I understood Cerny, the SSD because of its extreme speed will be able to offload many tasks that RAM usually would be used to.
Games will load much faster, installs will be much faster and who knows how devs will be able to utilize the SSD.

Then we have RAM
SX: 16GB GDDR6, where 10GB is 448GB/s and 6GB is 338GB/s
PS5: 16GB GDDR6 @ 448GB/s
So seems like RAM rund at higher speed overall on PS5.

Then it remains to see if that extra GPU power on SX is big enough to make a difference. I believe it will be negligent.

Overall, with Xbox buying new studios, and these new consoles being so so much better than first imagined, I’ll most likely end up buying both. Xbox has yet to prove to me that they are able to be innovative with their exclusives. But I believe they will be next gen.

[CaptainHenry916]

Remember buying studios don't guarantee great exclusives. Rare use to be my favorite developer and look how they turned out. I'm doing a wait and see approach first.

[PyroMessiah86]

The RAM config for X is:

10GB at 560GB/s
6GB at 336GB/s

Xbox has a stronger GPU, CPU & RAM.

[Skiitzer]

SX: 10GB @ 560 and 3,5GB@336 for games only!
Thats insane!!
Like i said before, there is no magic in the sonys ssd ... its "only" ultra fast. And that will be okay!
Series X will look prettier/crispier in games and thats a fact!
PS5 will load faster ... no more magic inside!

[Artemidorus]

Sort the games out and it will look attractive

[Shadow Man]

Yes the XBOX series X is more powerful but the PS5 has the best exclusives which to me that alone will make me purchase the PS5.

[DarXyde]

Here we go.

Power did not deliver N64 a win over PSOne. Power did not deliver Xbox or Gamecube a win over PS2. Power did not deliver PS3 and Xbox 360 a win over Wii. Power has not, and will not deliver Xbox One X a win over PS4 and PS4 Pro—as a further matter, the cheaper Xbox One SAD edition isn't doing it any favors against Switch. It doesn't matter. It just doesn't.

For either console, TFs refer to theoretical performance. There are phones with 48MP cameras getting outperformed by 16MP cameras. Those numbers really don't tell the whole story. The speed of the PS5 SSD is really going to make a huge difference for performance and has serious implications for use as extra RAM.

Some of you are sleeping on PS5. You may be surprised when we see what it can do. We learned a lot about the console... but I don't think that's the whole story either. Not saying it'll outperform Series X. Who really knows? But I will say that I think Sony is making the best possible choice in taking some seriously (r)evolutionary steps. Their audio implementation is fascinating and it's really just one way shown so far that showed how immersion is their priority. I'm happy because that means PSVR2 is going to be one hell of a device.

[CaptainHenry916]

If the load times in games is faster on PS5 because of the SSD that will actually be kinda funny especially since the Xbox series X will be more powerful. DF will analyze the loading speeds on third party games with both consoles. Heck the PS5 loading speed might be faster than my High end PC 🙊🤦‍♂️

[Skiitzer]

There is no magic in it! Please!
Dont hop on the MisterXMediaTrain hahahaha

[PyroMessiah86]

All the PS4 fans who spent the whole of Gen 8 bragging about power and games....now hate the fact Xbox fans are happy they have the clearly superior next gen console along with 16 new studios, gamepass, xcloud etc.

Just enjoy what you got :)

[Redemption-64]

Guess, you were born last night. Am sure they Xbox 1 is not the most powerful system on the market and has been for over 2 years now.

[FanboySpotter]

The same guys that cried about series x storage not being enough(1tb ssd) and cards are suddenly not complaining after the ps5(800gb ssd) reveal. Interesting. Whatever happened to that? Console fanboys are too weird.

I also see people saying "it's not just about the teraflops!" i agree it's also more than just ssd so where are we all at right now? The narratives are changing too often. Do we know how good ray tracing will be on ps5? Because under stress the gpu just goes back to it's former 9tf so if it does how will that affect resolutions and everything? People are ignoring all the nice stuff to fit their narratives is a little concerning.

I don't comment on games yet because I've seen no next gen ps5 or series x games shown off so Idk why people keep using ps4 game lists when talking about ps5.

[waverider]

So, this kind of news will be approved. I wonder if gamers will care about teraflops or to play Spider man 2? or Bloodborne 2? or GOW or HZD. Is talkig about hype? in couple of week some will see what ND is able to make on he OG PS4 with TLou 2. Im scared of what they will make on the PS5... The tech on the PS5 is easier to work then on the PS4... only much stronger in every single aspect.

[Sniperwithacause]

All I know is this. I have had the OG ps4 since launch. The PS5 will be a better upgrade from what I currently have, that's all I need to know. As far as BC is concerned. I sold all my ps3 games to help pay for the ps4, so I'm not worried about those games anymore. I have probably the majority of those top 100 ps4 games that will work with the PS5 day one, so I'm good there also. So whatever the TF's are form the ps4 to the PS5 is welcomed by me!

[Lexreborn2]

I’m going to let the games speak volumes more. Having a prettier version of a game that doesn’t play well doesn’t do anything for me. I’m over that point in my gaming lifespan. I’m looking forward to seeing what the games will be like, how will they play, will it be fun AND look good?

Currently we know for 2 years this system is going to play games that are built with old hardware in mind as well. To me that means they will have the same gameplay with just more particles. That’s cool but I played Gears 5 on ultra and base xbone s. They were the same game even if not as pretty.

I’ve played division 2 on PC and PS4 pro... same game just my PC was 60 and more effects. Still beat it on both

[AenthonyDa1nOnli]

This just confirms sony are going to release a ps5 pro sometime in the future. When stuff gets cheaper to produce they will release a 13 tf ps5 pro and Microsoft will follow and drop a 14 or 15tf xsx.

[koreantiger74]

Sony then can release the ps5 ultra pro as an upgrade option

[SitRep_Critical]

still needs the games.. good luck with that xbox.

[gtxgamer2]

In all honesty I hope MS kills it this generation, Sony needs competition and competition will drive both company's to be their very best!

[AmUnRa]

I find it amusing, on al the articles in here all does armchair hardware developers talking as they realy know whats going on. I bet that 99% in here has no fucking idea what this al means, not for the PS5 and neither for the Series X. Looking at nummers of FPS, CU's and so on does not tell the whole story, there are more components and how they communicate with eachother what makes a console perform.
I trust the knowledge of a man like Mark Cherny here than that 99% of the posters here..
I know that there will be a diference in power but they will be close.

[quenomamen]

Lol, hey remember how about for 3 years all we heard from MS and its users was “ its not about the hardware its about the games” ?
Ooooh nooooow its about the hardware? I see.

[kayoss]

You can have all the power over your competitor. But all that is a moot point if you dont have good exclusives that show case those power. Sony have proven time after time that they can provide gamers with a steady flow of great exclusives.

[Elda]

Most PS fans that were happy with their PS4 will continue to support the next gen console that is the PS5 because of Sony's reputation of releasing great exclusives. XBSX having almost 2 tf of more power is a very small difference,when it comes down to it which console will have the AAA console exclusives to define it's console next gen.

[Lon3wolf]

Will be interesting to see what is coming game-wise with all the new devs they have purchased.

[Apocalypze]

Did you all forgot about PS3?

[maybelovehate]

I mean, Xbox Series X is undeniably better than the PS5, but let's be honest here. PC is where it is at, now and forever.

[SLiSH83]

No PS5 SOCOM no buy

[jjb1981]

15% better GPU and don't forget dA pOwA Uv dA KLoWDz!

[Joe913]

The people talking about TF is crazy. Keep seeing comments about how the PS4 was more powerful than XB1 but that is not why it sold more XB1 flopped because the DRM crap they were talking at launch. Sony outselling MS had nothing to do with Power.

[AK91]

Yes because have a more powerful console certainly helped the XB1X blast through the competition/s

[Vipre77]

Hasn't Microsoft had the most powerful system every generation since they got in the market, at least from a raw technical standpoint anyway? I know Sony had the lead in horsepower initially this current gen, but on the "half-gen" refreshed models they conceded that crown to MS. Still didn't change their market position. It shows that raw power isn't everything. Sony has demonstrated that over and over again. Nintendo, too, for that matter, to an even larger extent since they trailed considerably in system processing power. I don't know what momentum MS has that they're talking about in the article. It certainly isn't showing up in sales. Press buzz maybe? Even there, it's marginal lead at best. And we all know press buzz is just talk. It'll be time for MS and their fans to put up or shut up once the systems launch.

[RiPPn]

Game Pass!

[Agito1987]

The momentum is not really about power. MS just have really good messaging. Transparent, talking about ai upgrades for older games and full bc. Nothing like the x one reveal. And for the love of god, stop with the no games. Ms has games, most i can play co-op. I love sonys first party. But It really sucks I cant play anny with friends.

[Segata]

Anyone who keeps using the TF as measurement is someone who has no idea what it means. It's meaningless. It's only good for one thing. Fanboy spec wars. Stop using it ya dolts.

[Dragonscale]

And the current one x is getting its ass kicked by switch. So much for powah. Once again it will be the games which decide and thats where Sony has the momentum by miles.