PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X will have cross-gen games – does that put you off?

This generation won't rush you into buying a new console.

[ziggurcat]

why would it put anyone off?

[MasterCornholio]

New consoles always had cross gen games. The PS5 will have some exclusives though.

[autobotdan]

You might be confused. Original Xbox DVDs of Marvel Ultimate Alliance and Tomb Raider Legends did not work on xbox 360. There were xbox 360 versions of Marvel ultimate Alliance and Tomb raider Legends but those were not crossgen games because those xbox360 DVDs didn't work on ORIGINAL XBOX

[RosweeSon]

And that is it exactly. Cross gen isn’t the problem EA have done this since they began its launching their (Microsoft’s) new console with nothing that cannot be played elsewhere in this case on previous gen much cheaper hardware therefore pointless upgrading unless your only about resolutions if you want games you may as well wait another year after launch and get the X series X2 that has the exclusives they do sorely lacked for 7-8 years now

[mikeslemonade]

It’s a pay off because current gen games are dissapointingly low in frame rate and resolution. Sub 1080p games and sub 30 frame games.

[S2Killinit]

Only a put off if there are no next gen exclusives.

[mikeslemonade]

Most first years of every console is slim anyway.

[frostypants]

As long as there are some exclusives that aren't hamstrung by having to be scalable to the terrible CPUs in this gen, I'm ok with it.

[Kaedro]

Yes. I want next gen games to take full advantage of the new hardware and not be bottlenecked by last gen consoles.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Myth

[MasterCornholio]

How do you get Doom Eternal to run on an N64?

Even Microsoft said they would make games exclusive to their next gen systems in the future. Don't expect the Xbox One Fat to play Series X games 5 years from now.

[rainslacker]

It's a myth that he wants next gen games to take full advantage of the new hardware and not be bottlenecked by last gen consoles?

Applying a parable to someone's opinion sure does seem rather silly.

[Realms]

Cyber Punk 2077 got delayed because it ran like shite on the xbox one, surly that was a myth.

[isarai]

Technology basics, better hardware enables better software. The fact that you think this long established, common sense level fact is a myth is embarrassing.

[NeoGamer232]

The gamer answer should be more like....

I want next gen games to take full advantage of hardware advances and be playable on previous gen hardware where possible.

[JayRyu]

I see why the question was asked. Some people wolud ask "why buy a new system to play old games?"
So this is really an article/question for them.

[AnubisG]

No it doesn't but I want to see a few true next gen games as well next to the cross gen games. That is why I'm buying the PS5, for next gen mostly.

[abstractel]

PS4/XboxOne had cross-gen games too. I expect that to die off after a year like it did last time but we'll see.

[autobotdan]

The original xbox versions of Marvel Ultimate Alliance and Tomb Raider Legends did not work on xbox 360-those were not cross gen games. The Xbox One discs of newer 2020 xbox one games will be enhanced for the new xbox console. Marvel Ultimate Alliance on original xbox dvd discs were not enhanced for xbox 360. They did not work on xbox 360

[rainslacker]

They're cross gen in the sense the game is made for two different systems. The delivery method is irrelevant, although the cross buy nature of what MS announces, and what sony has had available for a while, is a better proposition for the customer, and is something worth praising.

[autobotdan]

Rainslacker this 2020 crossgen has never been available before and never been done before. I believe you are confusing crossgen with backwards compatibility. Cyberpunk2077 game is true crossgen because that game disc works on Xbox One consoles from day 1 and those same xbox one Cyberpunk discs will work on the next xbox with 2x or 3x better performance on day 1 of the next xbox launch. That has never been done before. I am not talking about Playstation 2 games that worked on launch ps3s. That was backwards compatibility

[rainslacker]

MS new cross gen is cross buy. It's nothing new. Sony started it on the PS3 and its available for games on the Vita, PSP, and PS4 that support the feature. MS is suggesting they're delivering it with a patch, or with a single download/disc, while Sony's method had a distinct version you'd download depending on what system you had.

While the delivery method is different, the result is the same. There may be some minor implementation differences in delivering the content, but I don't see why that would be that much of a worry for the user, since essentially they're getting the same thing.

Sony also had cross buy for physical discs, but it was a downloaded version of the other versions of the games. The first cross buy game, some R&C game, allowed you to download the Vita version when you inserted the disc.

Yes, what Sony had wasn't as fluid as what MS has when it comes to physical, but what MS has is an improved version of what Sony has been offering for a while now, not some new revolutionary feature that no one has ever seen before. It's really the same thing as what we see with the mid-gens now. With digital, since you'd have to download the game on each system anyways, I fail to see how the user would be able to tell the difference.

And why would I be confusing cross gen with BC, when I made no mention of BC, and specifically defined what I meant for cross gen. If MS is just offering a patch, then that's more BC than cross gen, but what MS is offering is the different version's executable and any upgraded assets through a patch.

I guess if we really want to get technical, we can say that MS is combining cross gen and cross buy onto a single distribution, or through a provided patch. Whereas Sony with some of their games, or 3rd party who used the feature, provided a distinct version for each platform.

[Petebloodyonion]

Sorry Rainslacker Cross-buy isn't cross-gen
Cross buy mean that if you're buying one version they will give you the others version as well for free
For example, when you buy a Bluray disk movie they give you a digital code a DVD for free that is
call cross buy cause you get 3 distinctive different versions
But Buying the DVD versions doesn't give you access to the Bluray version nor the 4k version. So you have to buy again the Bluray version.

But the digital version could be cross-gen since you could buy the 4k versions of the movie and it would still work on a cheap pc monitor till you upgrade it to 4k and you wouldn't need another version of the film.

When you buy a PC game there's only one version and it works with different SKU thus the minimal settings, the recommended and optimal setting.
I don't have a window 10 version, a window 7 version, a Windows 8.1, etc.
And many PC games Disc work also on Linux OS and Mac OS.

[autobotdan]

Actually rainslacker is reminding me of two Neo Geo fighting games on Playstation 4. Samurai showdown V Special and Garou Mark of the Wolves. Those were crossbuys between the Playstation 4 and Playstation Vita portable. I actually own those two games and they are both downloaded on my ps4 pro & my Vita. But those games were not true CrossGen games that increased the resolution 2x or 3x or improved the framerates twice as fast. Those were actually originally classic Neo Geo console games. Oh well. It's been a long day guys. Let's just be happy with our 2020 cross gen games lol

[BrettAwesome]

#Autobotdan
Actually you're wrong. Gross gen only means that a game releases on more than one gen upon release. They don't have to be interchangeable. Black flag is cross gen because it released on xbox360/one and PS3/4 at the same time. You can't play one version on the other machine. But it's still cross gen. Get it?

[autobotdan]

Brett your WRONG. They have to he interchangeable. Do you get it?

[rainslacker]

It might be easier to think of what MS is offering is a combination of cross gen and cross buy.

Cross gen means it's made to run on more than one generation of platform. Something that is pretty typical with new generations.

Cross buy means you buy it on one platform, you get additional platforms included with the purchase.

One doesn't have to have cross gen to have cross buy....as in theory you can have two versions between two systems that aren't generational divided. Such as PC and PS/Xbox, or PS3/4 and Vita.

But, in the case of MS here, you have cross buy for their cross gen titles. MS also has cross buy with PC and Xbox now, and that wouldn't be cross gen.

[ocelot07]

If the PS5 does not launch with any exclusive games. Then ill hold of buying one until a few exclusives release.

[MetroidFREAK21]

No

[gold_drake]

eh? nah, couldnt care less if games are cross-gen or not. well, that depends on the game haha. but cross gen is always a plus for gamers who dont necessarily own all them consoles.

[Petebloodyonion]

Nope!
Having more players in a game mean more support, updates, games and less lag.

[Bandit50]

It was never going too be any other way

[chiefJohn117]

Nope buying day 1

[ifrit_caress]

It won't put me off because I don't mind the cross gen games. What I would love is cross platform gameplay between PS5 and Xbox Series X.

[rainslacker]

The games themselves dont bother me if they exist. If a game is held back to support legacy hardware, then I'm not that keen on it. But if it was possible to deliver on both because the design allows it, its not a problem.

[rainslacker]

Or, you know, someone has some basic knowledge of game design and hardware, and how the two are related, or know about lowest common denominator, or simply read what people are talking about when they describe a game being held back, it's not hard to understand, and since I'm not citing any individual game, I have no reason to act like im speaking about some insider info. I'm speaking on general principal, and what im saying is a real fact of game design. Its not sone archaic principal that suddenly is a new thing, and ms has reinvented the wheel and made it so old hardware can suddenly run code that its not designed to run, or made it so memory timing isnt an issue between systems, or that ssd streaming used as a core design is suddenly going to work on a standard 5400 rpm HD.

MS has DX, which is a high level api, which is needed for pc, but even on pc, there are minimum requirements. But the PC has had the same minimum requirement for the CPU for the past 10 years, if not longer, and memory requirements have only had minor bumps. But, why would you want a high level api on console to facilitate this, just so prior gens can play the game? If I were spending $500 on a new console, I'd want software that really takes advantage of what it can really do.

[AK91]

I thought both PS5 and XSX would just let Devs use their BC for late gen games so cross gen would be unnecessary but guess I was wrong.

[gamer7804]

not at all, welcome to PC circa since forever lol. This is the way it should be.

[rainslacker]

Isn't the lowest common denominator on PC hardware that is 4-5 years old...if not older?

About the only thing different is graphics settings.

For game design itself, that back end stuff no one thinks about, the game can't be any more advanced than the lowest common denominator. On PC, the lowest common denominator to run most game code is still pretty acceptable to run most games, so it's not that big of a deal. But on console, we're talking underpowered CPU's and hardware that lacks advancements which can actually improve the performance as a whole, such as faster memory, or the SSD which can run at fast speeds and be a high speed virtual memory.

Build a game for a 7-8 year old console, and the game can't be designed to take advantage of a high speed virual memory, regular memory allocated for game processes will be locked to whatever it is on the legacy hardware, and memory timing(which is extremely important to a consoles performance) will be no greater than what it is on the old hardware.

Yeah, PC games work because of the way they're designed. They use a high level API, and it works because you lose a lot of the performance that a PC is capable of due to multiple software layers. But on a console, games are programmed to the metal, and if your performance caps out at the lowest common denominator, there is no reason to design beyond that.

Cross gen like this is fine for games which can run on the older hardware, but essentially the only gain you're going to get with new hardware is prettier graphics....which is all you get with PC. I'd rather see game advancement move beyond this idea that prettier graphics makes for better games.

[Petebloodyonion]

And yet PC is where new technological prowess is showed 1st
Where's the ray tracing on console?
Here just watch as Nvidia is showing RTX on BF5
https://www.nvidia.com/en-u...
Remember how Open GL changed Quake and Quake 2 back in the day
(just check the RTX version of quake 2 here: https://www.nvidia.com/en-u...

Point is, it's been applied to old games with stunning results
So why a model that has proven to be working on PC with graphics being updated constantly to near photo realism (gta4 comes to mind) as GPU, CPU and graphical card get's better would not work on a console with only 3 Sku variation?

[rainslacker]

Yeah, and that's all about graphics. But on a fundamental level, at the implemetation of all the things that make a game that aren't about graphics, nothing has changed in almost 2 decades. Almost all games nowadays can be played on a CPU almost 11 years old now. The GPU's need upgrading, but that has nothing to do with game advancement.

The moment the people that keep talking about graphics realize there is more to games than graphics and really look at games to see what they do the same or different, they'd realize that for the most part, there isn't much that has changed in game design since the start of last gen. There have been some things which do things differently, but no drastic changes that redefine the gaming experience.

In short, expect more than prettier graphics. We'll continue to get that, but if that's all you want, then we'll continue on this track of people being annoyed by the lack of innovation. Always being dazzled by the pretty new sparkly isn't a way forward.

I attended a keynote address at a game conference almost 15 years ago from NVidia. Their idea of advancement....throw more cores at it. What do we see recently, a new GPU, with more cores. Nothing spectacularly innovative about that, since adding cores was the way processing was going. Keeping things rooted in just adding more without considering how to actually improve doesn't make things better, either in technology, or games. It's the very reason why x86 architecture was held back for almost 2 decades, because it tried to hold onto the past. It just made faster what was already being done. x86 didn't advance until the old was thrown out, and the i5 series and it's derivatives finally happened, and they ended up emulating legacy hardware. Since then, the i derivatives have remained where they are, and that's the level we're stuck at.

You can talk all day about advancement of graphics, and I will just shrug. Graphics will advance. That's a given. But that isn't advancement to gaming.

[gamer7804]

That’s not really true, there is more than just graphics settings on pc that can also affect cpu. Furthermore with of you have a system that’s not as optimized for games as console other things running background processes vastly different hardware configs that make it have a bit more overhead than just a couple of console versions. One console generation I think will be perfectly acceptable to have ports made that run at lower resolution, less on screen effects, less complicated physics, draw distance FPS etc.

[rainslacker]

I'm sorry. But I can't think of any game on PC that has multiple builds or patches, to handle different hardware requirements. Game design doesn't scale without new builds. Game design is thought out, and then designed around what the hardware can do. The graphics can be adjusted, because they're set up to be able to improve without effecting game design. What you get on PC when you have a lower CPU is inconsistent performance....something we already see with some of the higher end mid gen titles.

While there may be some things which can be scaled back when it comes to back end design, and maybe some companies do that, it is far from the norm, and the lowest common denominator is certainly a real thing in the PC space. It's used to increase the potential market, which is the same reason it's being done on consoles, but if it's sticking to this gen hardware, expect this gen games with better graphics.

That is basically what you guys are excited for, and completely ignoring anything that goes beyond graphics, or implying that it will not happen that way on consoles because you have a feeling.

[Petebloodyonion]

@Rainslascker
I completely agree with you regarding game advancement and why I see Vr as the real advancement in gaming since the tool forced new ways to play games, dimensions, and ideas.

As for the rest, the problem doesn't lie in the power of console but in what we want as consumers.
I recalled at the start of the generation (as I bought a Pc instead of a Ps4 and Xbox1 because of this) next-gen was called 1080P and 60 frames sec.
It was so next-gen that Sony created masterpieces by having the same ps3 game upgrade to this important setting and repackage as remasters (remember how the devs had to work so hard to achieve this back then)
Meanwhile, game-like Outlast with new game mechanics (that was given for free on PS+) or Alen Isolation were created and greeted by the media with Meh reviews.

Let me ask this.
Can we really expect evolution when we praise and worship studios that recreate the same formula over and
over (Ubisoft open-world formula, The Naughty Dog 3rd person formula, Gears, COD, etc.)?
In the meantime I suggest you to subscribe to Humble Monthly (choice) and just have a look at the Humble originals you might be surprised at the neat ideas that can be found there (and you get tons of great games too)

[rainslacker]

People don't know what they want until they see it. Most of the discussion I see about this ends up people keep bringing up the graphics improvements, while not even seeming to comprehend the notion of anything related to game design. It makes this conversation not really worth having.

Can we expect evolution? Probably not some massive jump all at one time. That's not usually how it works anymore. But, small steps can be had as developers utilize new techniques made available to them through hardware, and that can build on itself. But you don't get that if devs keep trying to make things work on lesser hardware.

[lsujester]

Honestly, the cross-gen/backwards compatibility is the only reason I'm considering a PS5 at launch. Doesn't look like there will be a lot of next-gen stuff for a while and I still have a healthy backlog to work through on a console starting to have mechanical issues.

[timotim]

As I've said before, it will be the quality of the games themselves that matter most...not if the game is exclusive to the generation or cross-gen. How many times have we seen crappy console generation exclusives before? Knack comes to mind for me. Then there's games like Ryse (60), Killzone Shadowfall (72?)...being exclusive to the generation does NOT guarantee a good game. Ill take a great cross-gen title over an average generation exclusive any day of the week.

[CrimsonWing69]

I don’t see the point if there’s backwards compatibility

[Ratchet75]

Third party publishers will always make
cross Gen games the first couple of years.
First party studios on the other hand have the responsability to show to the consumer why they have to upgrade for a new hardware.
I don't believe you can make a next Gen game if it's designed to run on an old Jaguar cpu. Just look at the situation with Cyberpunk 2077.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

The beginning of every generation has them.. What's new about this? Lol

[claudionmc]

so, this almost confirms all games will be identical in PS5 and XBOX series X and the extra tflops would be used for exclusives only.
I imagined that anyway, in PS4 vs X1 the difference in raw power is tremendous but third games looked almost the same.

[Silly gameAr]

Isn't there always cross gen games are the start of a new gen? This is nothing new.

[medman]

It would be phenomenal if developers could come out right from the start of any console generation and offer the best possible for the new hardware, but that has never been a reality. Developers will make the lion share of their profits selling their games to ps4 xbox one switch owners for several years to come, until enough ps5's and xbox series x's are sold to really encourage them to make the transition more fully. Always been that way.

In the meantime, ps5 and xbox series x owners will have to settle for better graphics, better framerates, but not necessarily vastly different new gameplay developments....the cpu restrictions of the ps4 xbox one generation will continue to be problematic for as long as the industry decides the games must run on cpu's that were weak for what they were in 2013, never mind 2020 and beyond.

[isarai]

As long as there's some 1st and 3rd party that will be only next gen to take full advantage of the new hardware, doesn't bother me.

[ShadowWolf712]

Most third parties do that.

What's concerning is when even the First Party devs are putting out games that won't take advantage of the new Hardware.

[GameStallion]

But PS5 will have PS5 exclusives, XSEX won’t, at least for two years is what they said. Let’s not confuse the narrative.