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Microsoft's Approach to Next-Gen Is Putting Tons of Pressure on Sony

Greysun Morales writes: "Microsoft's approach to the launch of its next-gen console is bold and confident and Sony needs to make a move soon."

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isarai41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

Besides BC, not really.(and i really do appreciate them bringing that back into the forefrint of the conversation and giving Sony the wakeup call it deserved in that regard)

Playstation has been doing cross buy since the ps3, why is it no one is mentioning this?

https://store.playstation.c...

Also for the last time the Cyberpunk 2077 cross gen deal is CDPRs decision, has nothing to do with MS AT ALL.

greysun12341d ago

But other devs may take advantage of that feature too

isarai41d ago

This essentially runs the same through the store as a sale priced item. It's just saying "buy this sku, get these related skus free" not really something they invented or setup. Should makers of the games be applauded for it? Absolutely, but it isn't new, it isnt something MS came up with, and in this instance it has nothing to do with MS besides going through their marketplace.

TFJWM41d ago

Ya they will...it will be a free PS5 patch since PS4 games are already BC.

bouzebbal40d ago

1X won't be getting exclusives for the first 2 years, so they need to get as many x1 owners to upgrade as possible within the first 2 years.
Second, Sony is working on their console.. They are probably unsure about release date due to Foxconn limitations due to the virus.
I do not think there is any pressure on Sony at all.. They are still owning the same studios that made us all buy a ps4.

shaggy230340d ago

@Isarai

Your right, but partly wrong.

As far as the user will be concerned when they search for Cyberpunk 2077 it will show one version, not an Xbox One version and a Series X version.

When they buy it digitally it will only download the files that are relevant to the system they are purchasing on.

Basically cuts out the chance of someone buying the Series X version when they only own the Xbox One and downloading extra content they dont need.

DJStotty40d ago

@bouzebbal

Well if that is the case "they need to get as many x1 owners to upgrade as possible within the first 2 years"

why would they take away the need to upgrade to play the new games?

All the games released on Series X will be playable on the xbox one and X, so your argument is invalid

yomfweeee40d ago

This isn't new. Companies did it last gen for both consoles.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 40d ago
Jin_Sakai41d ago

The PS4 event in February 2013 worked out great. I have no idea why Sony is taking a different approach with PS5 and staying quite.

isarai41d ago

Yeah i thought for sure they'd announce something new at that event. But they do have a "behind closed doors" event on the 29th, maybe that'll be something.

Traecy41d ago

New decade new approach.

isarai41d ago Show
Obscure_Observer41d ago

@Jin_Sakai

"The PS4 event in February 2013 worked out great. I have no idea why Sony is taking a different approach with PS5 and staying quite."

New CEO and new management, a.k.a Jim Ryan.

extermin8or40d ago

Sony said at investor call that they would be taking similar approach to ps5 reveal. Due to the virus however they are avoiding public gatherings and both consoles could well be delayed due to factories still being shut and production delayed.

bouzebbal40d ago (Edited 40d ago )

I don't see how you think they are quiet..
The event in 2013 came out of nowhere, everyone thought don't would announce new games, move successor etc..

Now Sony already announced ps5, and revealed the core new features like ssd ray tracing etc.. They are anything but quiet about their future console.
We are only 6 days after that Feb 20, 2013 event where they showed the controller and only introduced the social features.. The virus could be reason for the slight delay, but they'll reveal the physical console within the next month or 2.

generic-user-name40d ago

People forget the wired articles. That Feb 2013 event didn't reveal the box, nor the price, nor the date. It talked about the controller and some spec talk and showed launch titles.

The wired articles have talked about the controller, they've touched on some aspects of the hardware like ssd and hardware based Ray tracing, they've even hinted Blue Point's game will be a launch title. We've since also seen Godfall.

Sony have said more than people are acting.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 40d ago
CaptainCook41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

Smart delivery isn't really cross buy. It's just like changing your GPU to play that specific game again without repurchasing it again. If you read the technical details than you would know...

ShadowWolf71241d ago (Edited 41d ago )

CDPR literally said you buy one version of Cyberpunk, you get both. Exactly like Cross Buy.

StoneyYoshi41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

How is it compared to changing a GPU??? 😂
Sounds like crossbuy to me. Vita had a different gpu than the PS4 and you didn't have to buy it again. Actually there's even PS3 to PS4 cross buy games too.

Just because it downloads specific files for the designated model you need doesn't make it different lmao. Crossbuy worked by allowing you to download the version for the PSVita and also being able to play it on PS4 at no extra charge or vice versa. And guess what.... It downloaded what that specific system needed instead of what both systems need. It's the same damn thing with a different name and flare to make it "different" and you fell for it.

If you knew how cross buy worked then you would know...

RazzerRedux41d ago

"It's just like changing your GPU to play that specific game again without repurchasing it again. "

Which in console world means an entirely different console. AKA cross buy.

DJStotty40d ago

Smart Delivery gives developers the option to allow their game to be cross-buy.

Hence the announcement from CDPR

BayAreaBird40d ago

Are you really stating what you said? I sometimes can't believe the comments people post sometimes on the internet. For your information, console hardware today is becoming less different than the previous generations for easier ports. No one wants a multi platform game running like garbage on one system because developers didn't have time or money to study a hard to learn architecture like the Cell chip in the PS3. I wouldn't be surprised if 20 years from now, all the big 3 use 90% of the same hardware.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 40d ago
CaptainHenry91641d ago

Since Microsoft lost this generation now their putting pressure on Sony? They better get a bigger install base before they can put pressure on Sony.How do you get a bigger install base? Just create mind blowing exclusives.

george95741d ago (Edited 41d ago )

Being a PS fan it disappoints me that Sony is so laid back. Kudos to MS Xbox to go out and slowly reveal next gen. Dont know whats bothering Sony. Simply show the specs games and reveal the price later. The new management at Sony PS looks doubtful and aint like the previous once.

KillBill41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

"Also for the last time the Cyberpunk 2077 cross gen deal is CDPRs decision, has nothing to do with MS AT ALL." MS and their ability to give developers the Xbox Series X dev tools and ability for seamless transition has made it easy for them. I don't know the architecture of the PS5 but likely not as friendly as the architecture between the XB1 and XBSX.

But you have to imagine that if CD Project Red is discussing the cross gen on Xbox and not on PlayStation as of yet that Sony hasn't stepped up to allow it to happen yet or it simply is not in the works. So Dev choice is less a thing as rather it is dev options available.

CD Project Red quote: "We’ve had a long relationship with Microsoft. We had the Witcher 3 announcement at E3 at the Microsoft conference, so I think, given that existing relationship, it’s been easier for us to move forward with those guys."

isarai41d ago

You show just how ignorant and biased you are in your first paragraph, both the ps4/xbo aswell as the ps5/xsx share the same x86 architecture.

StoneyYoshi41d ago

" I don't know the architecture of the PS5 but likely not as friendly as the architecture between the XB1 and XBSX."

All of the current gen consoles and next gen consoles are on x86 architecture and they are using fairly identical hardware with their own custom options on both current gen and next gen. Sony confirmed this back when they originally released info about the PS5 last April.

rainslacker41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

LOL. The architectures are exactly the same. At least from any meaningful standpoint. Some specific features to each, but x86, and GPU compute are pretty standardized within DX and OGL. Game engines make conversion easy, and yes, making all DX ports is easier than porting from DX to OGL or vice versa, but in the end, it's not that much of an issue. I personally write tools that facilitate this very conversion and they are offered as standard fare in every major game engine out there.

MS hasn't provided any amazing tools which make things so much easier that devs are just doing this because they can just click a button and be done with it. Well, that is often about all that is needed for a sloppy port, but you don't want sloppy ports. But, in the real world, porting these games is like making a new version. Graphical level settings, which is all MS is doing with their games for the first year or two have been a staple of any major game engine long before MS ever had a game engine to offer. It's one reason that UE3 became the defacto standard last gen before better engines started surpassing it, and then UE4 started to take over again.

CDPR isn't discussing it on PS5 yet because Sony hasn't officially announced that the feature is available. Maybe it isn't available, but considering Sony has had this feature since soon after the Vita released, and it's available for PSP, PS3, PS4, and Vita, I'm not sure why they'd change their mind on offering it with PS5.

I'd be highly disappointed in CDPR if they didn't do this for PS5 as well. Especially given their long history of being highly consumer friendly. They don't need anything extra from Sony to make a higher end port, and Sony's tools and their interfaces for engines are light years ahead of MS. They don't need to be friendly with Sony to get this done, so unless Sony just denies cross buy for next gen, then they really have no excuse.

KillBill40d ago

"Because it’s based in part on the PS4’s architecture, it will also be backward-compatible with games for that console. As in many other generational transitions, this will be a gentle one, with numerous new games being released for both PS4 and the next-gen console. (Where exactly Hideo Kojima’s forthcoming title Death Stranding fits in that process is still unconfirmed. When asked, a spokesperson in the room repeated that the game would be released for PS4, but Cerny’s smile and pregnant pause invites speculation that it will in fact be a two-platform release.)"

And Ubisoft has stated that "most" of their PS4 games will be playable on PS5. Presenting an interesting question as to why some will not?

Sony themselves have yet to say specifically what the PS5 is capable of doing. We have only seen anything but rumors from other sources for the most part. When I see what Sony offers up for the architecture and ability to natively play Ps4 games on their PS5 then I will listen intently. People keep saying wait and see... but still waiting.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 40d ago
rainslacker41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

Cerny stated in an interview after the PS4 reveal event that one of the reasons that x86 was good for the consumer was that it would lead to an easier path for future BC. Ironically, the CELL was also supposed to achieve this same goal, but it's lack of adoption both in the console space, and in mainstream server/PC use made it impractical for long term fabrication. Couple that with GPU architecture essentially coming to do the same thing as CELL, at a much cheaper price per watt/die size, it made more sense to move away from it. But, because of the CELL situation, it wasn't practical to include one in every PS4. Sony was pretty transparent that the PS3 would cost to much to continue for the long term because production costs of the CELL would increase, instead of decrease, and since it wasn't a heavily used feature, it didn't make sense to potentially price themselves out of the market.

X86 and the PS5 won't be restricted by this, as the PS5 is essentially like another mid-gen upgrade, with more specific next gen features attached. All Sony needs to allow BC is the proper controller chip for the APU, and it means that PS4 games are essentially running on a PS4 processor....the same way they did BC on PS3 Phats and PS2. That should be full BC, not emulation....although potentially it may not end up like that in practice. Still an unknown there.

Anyhow, my point is, Sony isn't likely implementing BC with PS4 due to having a wake up call from MS. I think they're doing it because it was their plan from the start. Even as early as last gen, they were filing patents on BC solutions, and ways to improve on that BC. BC never seemed to leave Sony's interest, it's just they weren't compelled to enable it on the PS4 on a large scale PS2 and PS1 I feel they could have tried harder, and while I know they were cost concious, I think it wouldn't have been that much to have those chips in the PS4, or at least offer a version that offered it. Sony was pretty transparent that cost and price were their primary concerns with the PS4 launch, and given the financial situation at Sony at the time, it made sense.

Assuming some of my assumptions are true above, and with other things that MS is being given credit for here, I'm not exactly sure what kind of pressure Sony may be feeling.

-Sony allows cross buy and cross play.
-they have something akin to game pass.
-Sony isn't that keen on multi-plat, but I doubt that's really a boon for the consoles
-Sony's ecosystem is still ahead of MS in many ways, especially in the things MS is marketing towards right now, which is streaming.
-Sony has better groups and party functionality, which MS seems to have dropped the ball on this gen.
-MS has a nice elite controller, but Sony is coming out with a new controller which will likely offer the back buttons,
-Sony allows remote play
-Sony may offer cross gen as standard for it's games, but that's a double edged sword. If they don't, I doubt it's going to be an issue for them.

In short, It's not Sony scrambling to meet MS new strategy. It's MS catching up to what Sony's been doing for a while now.

I've yet to see a single article make the case of why Sony needs to feel any pressure. If there is any pressure, it's maybe to actually inform people that they have this stuff, because apparently these tuned in game journalists who are supposed to know this stuff, don't actually know any of this stuff.

isarai41d ago

Good point on BC, i just remember them constantly downplaying BC after they gutted it from PS3 whenever people would ask. Always bringing up that the reason they dont put much effort towards it was only a small percentage use it. But maybe it was just to save face on their decision to use the cell processor and emotion engine. Maybe the intent of x86 was to eliminate that lineage of complex bespoke architecture and allow many things including BC. I dunno, all i know is it was barely a conversation with Sony till now, maybe it's in response from MS, maybe not. Im just glad it's happening

Teflon0241d ago

It's funny how these people act. Like this wasn't what games like Ratchet and clank, PS All Star, and then a million indies did on PS. The amount of times I've bought a game on PS3 or Vita and I got PS4 versions for free when it dropped is ridiculous. It's to the point the same thing happens with PS Plus games. You'd get a Vita game on PS Plus and get 3 versions by default because you'd get 3 way cross buy automatically.

DJStotty40d ago

@isarai

Can you put a PS3 disk in a PS4 and it work? I think that is the main difference between the 2. PS3/4 compatibility is digital only if i am not mistaken, whereas Microsoft is both disk and digital.

Xbox360 games work in an xbox one (disc version), as is the same on the xbox one x.

KillBill40d ago

Not actually. Xbox 360 games played on disk on Xbox One still need a download that is basically the software version of the game to play it. Though this exact option is a thing announced for Xbox One games to Series X.

StoneyYoshi40d ago (Edited 40d ago )

@DJStotty

KillBill is correct. The disc is just to show the system that you own the game, so it downloads what is needed to play the game. Its not just pop the disc in and instantly play. This is due to the architecture difference between 360 to XBO. Same goes for PS3 to PS4, but i would say the Cell architecture really makes this tougher than compared to the 360 and XBO. I don't expect the PS3 to be playable on any other system because of this but maybe they could surprise us. They could have been skipping out on BC this whole time because they want it to work for every game rather than a selection of games?

DJStotty39d ago (Edited 39d ago )

@dontbhatin

But if you dont own the game digitally you still need to pop the disc in to play so......

I stand by my statement, i did not say you could pop it in and play instantly. After a download, you can pop the disc in and play instantly, digital you just re-download the game and play instantly.

As far as i am aware, this can not be done on any other console.

StoneyYoshi39d ago (Edited 39d ago )

@DJStotty

Sure they cant just pop in a PS3 disc and enjoy... but PS owners still have an option by subscribing to PSNow. Theres 100's of PS3 games on there that are playable INSTANTLY without any downloads. So its not like they cant play old games on their system at all.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 39d ago
BayAreaBird40d ago

Why is no one mentioning cross between Xbox 360 games on Xbox to Xbox one? What are you talking about? It's both MS and CDPR's decision to make it cross gen. You think if Microsoft had nothing in place for cross buy support, some developer could make cross buy possible? No, how would they track who bought the game? Microsoft needs to have a system in place to make this happen. Microsoft would have told a developer that cross buy will be a thing and to consider if they want to make it a cross buy. So yes, Microsoft did play a role in this.

HotFuzz10140d ago

Yes and EA have done the cross buy thing too with Battlefield 4 If you have the PS3 version. You get the PS4 digital version of the Battlefield 4 for $9.99. I still got the case with that saying on the front cover. Also, Hotline Miami, Minecraft, and Woah Dave to PS3 to PSvita to PS4.

DJStotty39d ago

why would you pay again for the same game on a different platform?

ThatDudeMunkee40d ago

They've been doing CB for a while now, which I'm happy about, and enjoy. I still take advantage of PS Vita games that feature that capability.

The biggest thing is, Sony isn't saying anything about their projects. They're taking this precious time to work on first-party games, to hammer out their hardware, and features. Even as a journalist, it's not hard to see what Sony's doing: They're letting Microsoft boast as loud as they can, they want them to, which gives them more time to develop a heavier hitting console in the background.

The other thing this writer overlooked. Sony hasn't stated what their programs are just yet in regards to the current-gen games. We only know that Marvel's Spider-Man plays amazingly. It takes full advantage of its 1440p variant and runs buttery smooth in it too. I can imagine Sony will be offering an optional download via the PlayStation Store or a patch for the PlayStation 5 variant of the game; I'm okay with that too.

DJStotty39d ago

This late in the game, hardware specs would be finalised. Sony can not simply wait for MS to release specs, and then redesign the console to have better specs.

You either have the stronger specs or not, the only thing one can outdo the other on now, is either price/games/features. Things at software level can be changed, hardware can not.

ThatDudeMunkee38d ago

We're still 8-9 months from release. If Sony wanted to, they could change out last-minute parts (not that they would this late int he game), they could also change the programming in how their hardware interacts with one another.

However, you are missing my entire point. Sony is not going to lay down and just open the floodgates for Microsoft to take advantage of. They are keeping quiet purposely. It's a smart move. For all we know, they have some higher-tier stuff on the way and when they're ready, they'll show their hand. All this is - is a game of poker and they're calling Microsoft's bluff and keeping their face on straight.

That being said, it's been stated multiple times they are both using almost IDENTICAL hardware. The Xbox Series X, according to the 'leak' is only using a SLIGHTLY slower SSD.

https://www.ccn.com/ps5-and...

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 38d ago
banshyork41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

Yeah Sony is quiet and cautious.

greysun12341d ago

They probably want to wait until Microsoft says their price first

Jin_Sakai41d ago

Well the wait is over. We know Xbox Series X won’t be $399 after the specs revea.

Genkins41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

it's not clear if Lockheart is real. sources still credit it but are not sure if it will be introduced.
sources claim if sony targets a low price Lockheart will be revealed.

bleedsoe9mm41d ago

....and what happens if MS says $399 and has stronger hardware

Ju41d ago

I can't even see how they can sell that machine below $600, tbh. I would just buy it as a PC. 12Tf you just can't buy anywhere for that price. Hope someone cracks it open so we can actually really put an OS on it. That would be cool. Would even support the DS4, lol. For Sony, I guess it'll be all about price. For some sell though numbers $400 matter more than 12tf. I believe Sony won't hit those performance numbers, which might be disappoint (if even true), but plenty fast - I rather pick the $400. I think. We'll see.

Sayai jin41d ago

@Ju, the production cost of the PS5 is $450 -$470, so it most likely cost $499.

rainslacker41d ago

It's not really appropriate to go by standard GPU for PC pricing scales when looking at what it would cost Sony to procure. You have to realize that on the PC, the GPU you're paying for what will be a more limited run of the entire card, the box it goes in, the distribution, and even the R&D that went into making it a thing in the first place. While a whole console will cost more overall on individual parts to make than any PC card would(when you subtract the GPU), Sony and MS are going to be placing orders for millions of these chips, and their pricing is going to be based on a multi-year contract. AMD, or NVidia, on the other hand maybe have 1-3 years to make their money back on a single chip, and they price these GPU's well over the cost it takes to make, then you have the OEM manufacturers adding in their own costs, then of course the standard retail markup, which can be anywhere between 20-80%.

A GPU from a $400 PC card would likely cost Sony or MS $100-150 at first. That's including the APU with the chip as well. Memory costs are going to be closer to retail, mostly because there isn't a lot of mark up in those, but they're still getting bulk pricing, without the inclusion of any PC chip casings requried. The rest of the system is just small additions to price which because there are so many, add up....kind of like how no one thing in a home remodel project is that expensive, but when you add up all those additional things you need, it tends to come out to a lot.

The cost of R&D, production, distribution, and marketing is usually made back by game sales, not on system selling price. If things go like last gen, these companies aren't going to want to lose money on the sale of the system. I doubt even MS wants to take much of a hit, although it was said they took a small one with the X1X at first. Was fairly insignificant, but since console makers shy away from weird numbers, it would have added another $50 onto the sale price of the X1X. I think Sony made about $12 on the PS4 at launch...excluding any distribution and marketing costs.

george95740d ago

So Xbox SeX will reveal price in E3, means Sony will have to wait post E3 to reveal and then expect to sell 6 M by March 2021. Thats weird. Why not reveal the specs games now and reveal the price later. I have so much of faith on Sony but this new management seems off.

DJStotty40d ago

Microsoft could very easily launch at $399

It is called taking a loss on the hardware to sell the services

ThatDudeMunkee40d ago

They've already claimed to be doing this. Old news my dude.

DJStotty39d ago (Edited 39d ago )

I think MS are going to take a heavy loss on the console, i predict £429.99 UK, $449.99 US

@bleedsoe9mm

Then i will pre-order as soon as they open

@Ju

Easy, its called taking a loss on the hardware to create an install base to sell the software. This happens every gen.

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 39d ago
ThatDudeMunkee40d ago

Sony hasn't been quiet though my dude. They've boasted about their hardware for a while now. Marvel's Spider-Man improvements last year, Forza Horizon tech demo in 8K, playing at 60fps, and a few other things from there. They've ONLY recently in the past few months blew the lid off their hardware specs, what will be in the PS4, and a few of its features including the new controller (sadly, not sure we can call it the DS5 now).

As much as I love consoles altogether; Sony, Xbox, and Nintendo; I'm not seeing them being marketed underneath $450. Those specs are expensive and they're already aiming at high-end hardware this time around versus mid-range devices. IF they take the hit on the cost to manufacture, I'll be flabbergasted.

IRetrouk41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

Is it really though?

Seems like sony have their own timetable, they started the next gen conversation, they will reveal when they are ready, they dont need to make a move untill then, as annoying as that is.

TKCMuzzer41d ago

Correct, making a reactionary tweet or statement can show more weakness. Stick to your plan, that's why their called plans.
Plus, how is it pressure, NO one can buy any of the consoles yet. People on the fence won't make a decision until they know the details of both consoles.

gamersday0841d ago

Seriously, what is wrong with all these insecure defensive m$ fanbois? They cannot be reasoned with. Are they getting paid? Can I apply for such a sideline? m$, I'm pretty good with my keyboard and I'm a firm supporter of windows - you won't regret it.

IRetrouk40d ago

Yeah, as much as I'm dying to find out every last bit of info about the ps5, I understand Sony has a timetable and a plan, they will announce when they feel the time is right, and who are we to say when they should?, this is rodeo number 5 for playstation, they know what they are doing.

40d ago
Vokun41d ago

Sony didn't start the next gen conversation. Phil started it when he first announced that they were working on the next gen consoles back at e3 2018 (June) and Sony's first vague hint of the PS5 didn't come until October that same year.

Cmv3841d ago

He means the first to release real information.

rainslacker41d ago

I mean...is saying that you are making a next gen console really the first to talk about next gen? I mean, we'd have to go back years before that E3 2018 where I'm sure we could find both companies saying they're looking towards the future. Which one said it first I wonder? Couldn't we technically go all the way back to the PS1 to say Sony talked about it first. Remember when they marketed that they will one day have a PS9? Isn't the logical progression that the PS5 would be in there somewhere? Or were we to assume Sony would skip PS5 like MS skipped Windows 9? I dunno, just seems that MS trying to quell the talk about how they were dropping out of the console race because of their new fervor for PC gaming is not quite the same as talking about the next gen, especially when they were trying to market the current gen and their recently released system at that same event.

IRetrouk41d ago (Edited 41d ago )

Microsoft teased the next xbox, by saying they are working on it, didnt give any details at all, timeframe, nothing.

The first info we got from anyone was sony, they done the first wired interview in april last year with actual details.

Vokun40d ago (Edited 40d ago )

@IRetro

Doesn't matter. MS announced their next gen consoles first and actually confirming their existence, and therefore they officially started the next gen talk, and they are also the ones who have kept the conversation going while Sony is MIA.

Shawn didn't talk about PS5 in that interview you linked, he just answered a question about a rumor release date and said it's too early to talk about while not even confirming or denying its's existence and moved the topic over on PS4 Pro.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 40d ago
Muzikguy41d ago

Exactly. What pressure? It's like all these pro MS pieces are trying to find any fault right now in Sony. This is their FIFTH time in the ring.

Baza40d ago

It most definitely adds pressure. I wouldn’t say a ton but some for sure. We’re all sitting here waiting to hear how Sony is going to match up. MS revealing some impressive stuff

Rimeskeem41d ago

You can have all the power you want but if you don’t have the games I simple don’t care. If it’s true the Xbox won’t have exclusives for a couple years than I’m not even gonna bother especially if I have a more than capable PC. Also, I think Sony is more worried about their employees dying right now (PAX east). I feel that people are just blowing this out of proportion when the reasoning is fairly simple.