On paper, the GPU in the Xbox Series X is faster than a GeForce RTX 2080 Super

Microsoft is presumably referring to single-precision floating point (FP32) performance, as these metrics typically do. At 12 TFLOPs, the GPU inside the Xbox Series X is a tad faster than Nvidia's GeForce RTX 2080 Super, and just a bit behind a 2080 Ti, currently the best graphics card for gaming.

[EasilyTheBest]

Well these are some amazing specs that we have heard so far. What a difference this time around compared to the original Xbox One reveal.
Microsoft seems to be doing everything right.
The next thing they need to get right are games, I can see them keeping all the game reveals for E3 & I'm sure they'll finally get this right aswell from all the studios they have bought.
The last thing will be the price, if they get this right aswell I can see things going extremely well for Microsoft.

[anonymousfan]

Gosh I really wonder about that price :/ ?!

[Lon3wolf]

I'm wondering that for both consoles, both are playing their cards close in regards to price.

[ABizzel1]

This is sounding like more than $600 console. Even if the 6700 / 6800 GPU launches at less than the 2080 Super, it's still going to be a $600 GPU for consumers, and on the CPU side even a year later a Ryzen 3700u would still be a $200 CPU.

Even at half the cost of consumer side (which is the range these consoles manufactures get their parts), the core APU for this system is easily $400 alone, before adding 16GB GDDR6 RAM, 1TB NVMe, motherboard, etc...

This is sounding like $699 minimum, which will make it a powerhouse of a console and easily the most powerful console of next gen, but at the price you only get the most hardcore Xbox fan which isn't increasing market share, as a $499 PS5 (9 TFLOPS) and $399 Xbox Scarlet (6 - 7 TFLOPS) will me more consumer friendly.

Then in 3 years a PS5 Pro can launch at a higher TF count and release at $499 again, and the Series X will not really be able to drop price down significantly below that, so they'll once again have to go higher in price with another more powerful console to compete or wait another year like XBO-X had to.

Super interested to see how this plays out. Regardless congrats on a powerhouse console MS, if you can hit $599 then well played.

[crazyCoconuts]

I bet they're willing to sell at a loss. Look at those new x1x consoles they're selling for $300... That's gotta be at a loss

[GamesAsAService]

You know that printers are sold at a loss?

They make their money on ink cartridges.

Do you want to know of another consumer product that is very often sold at a loss?

Take a guess, I will wait...

Yup. Game consoles. Games and accessories are where the money is made.

So here are a few things to remember. Microsoft is a 1.3 T USD company. Sony is a 90 B USD company. Who can can afford to take a loss to push console sales and market penetration of their product?

I think Microsoft is perfectly positioned for this to happen. It would seem that they have learned their lesson with regards to where their focus should be. There does not seem to be an emphasis on a useless peripheral (Kinect). They do seem to be focusing on performance. And they are consistently demonstrating consumer friendly business models and practices (value of gamepass, promoting crossplatform play, buy a game once and it will work across the entire xbox family of devices moving forward).

The games will come. These features however will be requested by gamers regardless of platform they play on.

[seanpitt23]

All of that power in a console you would expect near photorealistic graphics

[Bruh]

@ABizzel1

OR they can just launch at 400-500, Microsoft has said a billion times already that they don't care about bottom dollar from console hardware, but rather from the services it sells for them. I can easily see them taking a loss on the hardware front to post customers to sell their services and make money on the backend

[ABizzel1]

@crazy

The XBO-X is more than likely selling at a loss, but only by around $50 per consent at most. Everything in the console is similar to the XBOs, besides the the 580 / 590 equivalent GPU which are below the $200 mark and hover around $150 at consumer prices. It still has the same COU, and better RAM, and cooling, but overall that's about another $100 - $150 difference from the base model, which is selling for $150 - $199, so $299 seems like a loss, but it cant be a huge one if there is.

This console on the other hand is looking like a $100 loss per console if not more day 1 of they aim for a $599 price. Regardless of what these other people are saying, no one wants to take a $100 loss on a product that especially isn't target towards the mainstream.

As amazing as the specs sound, this is not going to be the better selling of the two consoles, the majority of gamers aren't ready for $600 - $700 consoles, unless they offer and amazing installment / lease billing incentive.

[Agito1987]

And launch worldwide simultaneously. I live in Holland and the xbox one launched 6 or 12 months later than the ps4. So there really wasn't a choice. Given the choice I would have gone for titanfall instead of killzone.

[monkey602]

That's weird! The Xbox 1 launched before the PS4 everywhere else. Including most parts of Europe like Ireland, England, Spain, even with your neighbours Germany.

[Agito1987]

@monkey602
Germany I belive it launched in november yes. Quick google search, rest of europ november. Holland and belgium september next year.

[monkey602]

That's mad! You would think we were long past those days. Even Japan didnt get the PS4 a year in advance to the rest of the world like they did in the old days

[lazyboyblue]

The high price, I feel is one of the reasons they keep barking about it being ok to stay on xb1 for a while. Don't wanna lose those customers (of which they'll be many) who balk at the series x price.
My personal hope is that my xb1x remains next gen relevant at 1080p for at least a transition year.

[nirwanda]

I think they will price the same as the ps5, they won't want to lose ground early.
As for the 1x that will get grouped with the xbone like a 4k machines and as for the series x that will be kept almost separate probably grouped with a pc version of the game , pc requirements will go up and probably require an SSD etc.

[itBourne]

The problem is, MS does this every single console cycle! Buy a bunch of studios/exclusives, do some other stuff right, then abandon game development all together and here ya go, Gears, Halo, and Forza for the rest of the gen and nothing else... oh yah we also ruined a few legendary studios we bought and canned too...

[lazyboyblue]

Phil Spencer is no Don Mattrick. Everything Spencer has done has been for the consumer so far and there's no reason to believe his stance will suddenly change.

[Larrysweet]

xbox shooting themselves in foot ps5 5 550 x 6 700 and ps5 still produce better looking games bahahahahah... just like pro vs x

[Axonometri]

Going to have to double that console savings plan

[CaptainHenry916]

Sounds like a $599 console 🤔

[Axonometri]

Want 2 of them now.. and then the upcoming Gpu's. probably a new wallet also

[Spenok]

Pretty much at minimum.

[Profchaos]

Even with ms selling at a loss to get there I think it could be possibly $650

[JeffGUNZ]

Good luck on that, the Geoforce RTX 2080 is like $799 right now.

[jeromeface]

599 is insanely optimistic.

[Larrysweet]

699

[MadLad]

Consoles tend to be fairly high end at launch. They also use extra optimization allowed as a crutch.
That said, by mid-gen, they tend to really start showing their age. At least come 3rd party titles, this this gen's refreshes. That also means, console gamers looking to stay up to date, are probably paying closer to $800 per system, per gen.

Just food for thought.

[Kavorklestein]

Idk how I feel about showing age, cuz sometimes games come out that Amaze late in the Console cycle. Like TLOU, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, God of War, and Gears 5 etc.. etc..

[MadLad]

That's the reason for pointing out 3rd party titles. As a, mainly, PC guy, it would be disengenuous to ignore the fact that console exclusives tend to look a step above most 3rd party games, most of the time. Giant funding, long dev cycles, and a concentrated effort to one piece of hardware will typically churn out stronger results by comparison to a 3rd party who is thinking about several pieces of hardware.

Let's put it this way. I built my first gaming PC around three years prior to the PS4/One releases.
It wasn't because the first party stuff didn't look good, but because many 3rd party games seemed to be running rougher, and looking more blurry/jaggy. Not that there aren't outliers, obviously.

[Segata]

PS4 and Xbox One were mid-range at best when they launched. Tho 360 and PS3 were doing things like multiple cores at launch that PCs were not yet. PS2/GC/Xbox were all weaker than most PCs of the era. Dreamcast had a good CPU and GPU for 1998. DC's GPU overall was better than the Voodoo 2. So it really depends on the era.

[XBManiac]

Maybe the problem will be on developers side this time, with a longer period of games launched under lower, old gen, specs. Have in mind that all games will have to be compatible with 2013's Xbox One. So improvements will rely on Raytracing activated, higher resolution, better textures and higher frame rate, as well as loading times... not better physics, IA, mechanics, VR or world size. I hope this does not stop PC games development for more than two more years.

[Lennoxb63]

3rd parties will not be forced to support the Xbox One family of consoles. 1st parties will.

[SyntheticForm]

I actually think things get better at mid-gen. The hardware is more fully understood by developers and thus better harnessed leading to some impressive results with software.

So, while the hardware is aging, developer mastery is increasing.

[Nu]

I hate you Ted Cruz /s

[MadLad]

Stop sounding like me looking myself in the mirror in the morning.

[GtPawnSacrifices]

Great to see a powerful console again. Been a long time since 2001.

[MadLad]

I assume you're talking the original Xbox? It really was a powerhouse for the time.

[GtPawnSacrifices]

Indeed I am ;)

[babadivad]

360 had the first unified shader GPU ever. This was then put into all ATI/AMD GPUs. Both the PS3 and 360 had cutting-edge tech in them.

[Zeref]

Yup consoles haven't been on par with high-end gaming PCs since OG Xbox.
Xbox One and PS4 generation were definitely underpowered. Barely on par with low-end PCs.
Xbox One X was a return to form for Consoles, it was on par with mid-end PCs.

Now Series X goes head to head with High-end PCs

[ossyc]

Yeah it’s amazing for the cost. However it will be only closer to the PC in terms of power for the first 12 months. Within 6 months of release Nvidia will drop a new card, so that’s a generation behind right there. After 6-8 years of its console lifespan it will be 8 generations behind a high end PC which are never static. That’s why people buy a Pro version after a few years. Like I said before, still amazing for the price

[sizeofyou]

But ossyc - you don't know the price?? 🙃

[KaiPow]

The 360 had some good specs but the negatives (mainly lack of actual storage early on and wireless internet) felt like the PS3 was leading that one. Shame that the Cell processor was notoriously difficult to code for, leading to ports that underperformed compared to the 360.

[Sophisticated_Chap]

Hopefully Nvidia will deliver on the 50% improvement on performance rumor that is flying around, because you'd have to be completely out of your mind to purchase a 2080 Super or 2080TI right now, with the steep prices they are asking. The big Navi and Ampere announcements can't come soon enough, since I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do for my next PC build.

I'm worried about PC parts prices rising, not only due to the Covid19 virus, but also due to the fact that once console manufacturers start ramping up production, along with any new smart phones that might be launching later in the year, system memory, NAND flash memory, CPUs and GPUs might become scarce, and then we'll be looking at major price hikes.

These are the perfect conditions for a major storm in the PC parts market, and I'm not liking it too much. I might just bite the bullet, and go out and build a new system with an R7 2700X, a B40 Tomahawk MAX mobo, 32GB DDR4 Memory, a 2TB NVMe drive, and then wait on the new GPUs to launch later this year. It's a tough call.

[NoLifeLoser]

Do yourself a favor, get a 3700X instead of 2700X.

[Sophisticated_Chap]

That would be a good way to go, but right now, the R7 2700X is going for $235.00 (CDN) vs $399.00 (CDN) for the R7 3700X, and with buying all new parts, I want to keep costs reasonable. I figure that the area where I will be willing to spend more, is with a new GPU. With the way I've got everything figured out so far, after taxes, I'm sitting just under $1,200.00, and that is without the GPU. I'm keeping my old case and PSU, which will keep costs down a bit too.

[RazzerRedux]

Depends on what resolution he will be running. At 4K, games are going to be GPU bound, but at 1080 or 1440 the CPU will take a lot of the load.

[DonkeyWalrus]

If you want to save some money go with 16gb ram instead. It will be more than enough. Use the savings for a better cpu and x570 board. 3600 is around the same price as the 2700x and offers better performance. Only advantage of the 2700x is 2 more cores, but they wont have much of an effect on gaming.

[sprinterboy]

Haven't components been in short supply with mining rigs also, then add Covid19 to the mix.
PC prices will definatly go up, I remember the prices going up on hdd after the Japan tsunami.

[LordoftheCritics]

The rumoured 3x series Ampere gpus to have 2x the power of the 2080ti is too damn exciting.

Waiting for GTC in march.

Don't build a pc till atleast these gpus are out.

[FernDiggidy]

I bought 3 of them for my C4D Octane rendering. Oops lol

[AspiringProGenji]

Deleted

[knickstr]

I think theres a reason they haven't announced price yet though....

[Chris12]

Because they haven't decided?

[DiRtY]

12 TF is a BEAST.

You can’t ask for more in a console without a ridiculous price point.

[Powerhug]

Just a tad faster than a 2080 Super? Pff... not worth my money. I expected at least 5x2080 Ti power from it at a 1/20 of the price.

[dolfa]

wow thats cool, comparing technical details of yet unreleased hardware to a 2 years old one, so smart

[ElementX]

The 2080 Super was released in July, the regular 2080 was released in Sept. 2018

[nismo370]

"I didn't anticipate that Microsoft or indeed Sony would resuscitate the teraflop as a measure of a console's power - principally because it's not an especially accurate way of expressing what a GPU is really capable of, especially when comparing architectures from two very different generations."
~Digital Foundry
https://www.eurogamer.net/a...
See the number 2 card on their list? Vega 64. 12.66 TF. Now look at the benchmarks of that card versus the 5700. We are comparing a 12.66 TF against a 7.9 TF card and yet they are largely on par with each other in benchmarks:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[dolfa]

Architecture is the same, but with 100 more cuda and very slightly faster clockspeed. So it is the same.

[Hungryalpaca]

Well obviously. No console is going to be top of the line.

[PitbullMonster]

Comparing two different GPU Architectures is not a smart move.

[RazzerRedux]

Exactly. I'm surprised at PC Gamer. They are usually smarter than this. DF made this clear even when comparing RDNA 1 vs 2. Now we are comparing two different architectures entirely.

"I didn't anticipate that Microsoft or indeed Sony would resuscitate the teraflop as a measure of a console's power - principally because it's not an especially accurate way of expressing what a GPU is really capable of, especially when comparing architectures from two very different generations."
~Digital Foundry
https://www.eurogamer.net/a...

[Father__Merrin]

Next gen consoles will trump PC. Even with lower raw specs due to the nature of a console the visuals etc can be top tier. Given the current situation it's likely only a 2ⁿ80ti or new Navi will run titles better but at that ballpark it won't matter unless running benchmarks.

Upon purchase your going to have a better experience than literally every PC gamer out there. Why should I have to buy a £1200 GPU just to have slight shadows or draw diat@nce or benchmarking? If it's just games only then a next gen console is sufficient

[RazzerRedux]

"Upon purchase your going to have a better experience than literally every PC gamer out there. "

lol....you keep believing that.

[Father__Merrin]

If it produces better than 2080 GPU can u list what GPU will out do it and at what cost?

[RazzerRedux]

"If it produces better than 2080 GPU"

First, that's a big if. It is going entirely by teraflops which isn't accurate. See the number 2 card on their list? Vega 64. 12.66 TF. Now look at the benchmarks of that card versus the 5700. We are comparing a 12.66 TF against a 7.9 TF card and yet they are largely on par with each other in benchmarks:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

And your statement assumes the GPUs of today will be the same GPUs this coming fall. Just not so. Both AMD and Nvidia will have new PC GPUs this year.

[Hungryalpaca]

They say this every single time a console is announced and it never happens.

Everyone but you seems to know TFs are an inaccurate way of measuring power. After all, lower TF cards often beat higher TF cards during testing.

Keep thinking a console using tech that’s a few years old will be more powerful than the most recent up to date technology.

Keep thinking that. Go on.

[WheatBread]

Noice.

[Max_Eckhardt]

I was hoping for 14Tflops. What’s the point of a high end series X and a lower end series S if the X is only 12 Tflops? Go big or go home!

[TommyVercetti88]

The price for the XSX is $549,99

[XBManiac]

The power of a September 20, 2018 graphics card and a mid range PC 2020 CPU on a 2020 console for a fraction of its price are really good news for gamers (maybe some exclusively developed game can show it is enought to jump in ASAP). With Xbox 360 we had the power of a 2005 graphics card and an "out of order dedicated CPU" for a fraction of a PC price... in 2005 (playing Morrowind on Xbox 360 proved it, for example). With Xbox in 2001 we had a better than PC graphics chip with a lower end PC CPU for a fraction of the cost of a PC from 2001 (playing Halo proved it, BTW). Good news are also that Vulkan and DirectX will improve at a good speed for the next years and consoles will mark a new baseline for PC gaming and VR. Good news for console owners and very good news for PC gamers and professionals, as everything is linked.

[chiefJohn117]

It'll probably perform better than a 2080ti due to optimization. Remember the X out performed 2070ti.

[SinkingSage]

The Xbox One X can't outperform a 1660 Ti let alone a 2070 Ti.

[BQ32]

All I know is I have a 2080 rig powering an Asus rog34 running at 1440p ultrawide and 90-100 fps and my Xbox one x powering my oled e7 in 4k at 60 looks twice as good. In fact since i grew up on controller and prefer it I have decided it that I am getting a better more consistant experience on console even though I paid a ton to get the best experience for my rig and monitor at the time. I am not upgrading my rig again especially if the new cards dont come with hdmi 2.1 and am focusing on next gen. I am going to pair the new consoles with the new LG 48inch oled and believe it would be difficult to beat that combination of graphics resolution and input lag for a competitive gamer that values good graphics.

[chiefJohn117]

Just going by Digital foundry comparison awhile back. And yes I meant 1070. The 2 was a typo

[RazzerRedux]

There is no 2070 Ti. 1070 Ti, perhaps? And what are you basing that on?

[Hungryalpaca]

None of what you said is true.

You understand that optimization is simply turning things down right?

You basically just said “well the Xbox performed better than x card when we lowered the graphics for the Xbox”

No shit.

[chronoforce]

Well historically consoles have been well tuned to run games. PC hardware often relies on sheer brute force especially at the driver level to compete. Thankfully the growing adoption of Vulkan and DX12 on PC will change this and just like on consoles developers will be able to make more efficient low level code.

It is certainly not the case that optimization is simply turning things down, If only it were so easy.

[nismo370]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

[Spenok]

It's funny that people still think TFLOPs are the be all end all of power calculators.

Just look at what Digital Foundry had to say about this topic. It's a nice metric, but not by itself, and not in the way PCGamer is doing so here. It's actually kind of disappointing PCG was so shortsighted on this topic. It actually makes them seem rather amateurish.

"I didn't anticipate that Microsoft or indeed Sony would resuscitate the teraflop as a measure of a console's power - principally because it's not an especially accurate way of expressing what a GPU is really capable of, especially when comparing architectures from two very different generations."
~Digital Foundry
https://www.eurogamer.net/a...

[3-4-5]

This will be $600............but it will be worth it.

There will be a cheaper $300 model too, but it won't be much better than an XB1X......

This is the tech jump we were all waiting for.

[j15reed]

If the they put the One X GPU with the new CPU they are using, I feel like that console could do some damage as the lower spec option. The PS5 squeezing in the middle might have a hard time with the casuals.

[FlameWater]

I remember when console gamer's used to defend 30fps, dark times

[RazzerRedux]

lol.....you mean like....last year?

[kryteris]

Considering games will be made specifically for the console, and new performance features it is possible that it is on par with the 2080ti. Exciting times. Also the gefoce now is a slightly better 2080ti, so makes sense that these nextgen consoles have high end gpu's. Competition! Then again we do not know what high end will look like in 2020.

[Fishy Fingers]

They say Gefore Now is comparable to 2080TI but only offers 1080p @ 60, so might as well be a 1060 in there.

[kryteris]

that is a streaming limit and 4k is over hype.

[Hungryalpaca]

I highly doubt it’s as powerful as a 2080TI. We know the cars architecture in it. It’s nowhere near a 2080TI.

Plus teraflops don’t mean much. Lower flop cards often outperform higher flopped cards.

[kryteris]

it is actually a 2080ti super to be exact. https://www.techpowerup.com...

[MrCrimson]

I mean, I hope so. Seeing as the XBOX ONE X is not out yet and the RTX 2080 is over a year and a half old.

[Profchaos]

Don't tell NVIDIA they will cry fakenews

[quenomamen]

The spin in this article is so hard I just got whiplash

[nismo370]

Radeon RX Vega 64 (Vega 10)—12.66 TFLOPs
Xbox Series X (Navi - RDNA 2)—12 TFLOPs
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RX vega 64 sucks so much!!!!!!
You must understand, console peasants, that 12 TFLOPs doesn't mean s....
ON PAPER.

[Fluttershy77]

Sounds great. If it is so, the price should be around $500 at a loss

[FanboysKiller]

Put it in a shredder.

[XxINFERNUSxX]

https://youtu.be/5Fi9dQlZEp...
Fast forward to Xbox Series X. For example the 5700xt has more tflops but is slower in games than a 2070 super with less tflops. It's probably in reality more closer to the full power of a 5700xt.

[Kumakai]

one thing is for certain: this already discredits the leaked spec rumor that claimed series x was 11.8 TFLOPS and using RDNA 1.5 and the ps5 being 12.6 TFLOPS (X is 12 and using rdna+2).

The ps5 could still be more powerful than the series x but the specs in the leak have been proven inaccurate by Spencer's official spec reveal regarding the series x.

Im expecting ps5 to be the same or less. I only say less b/c Sony seems to favor lower price over higher spec based on the last few hardware releases and knows its software lineup has a huge following no matter what. I also read somewhere that series X would be 56 CU's vs ps5's 36 CU's. That lines up with Sony's price philosophy and MS' recent statement of series X being the most powerful console.

[BlackRaven85_1]

This just kills some rumors. At best they got that it was 12 teraflops. Some of what's inside this isn't even available on PC yet. Hearing about new hardware is exciting. Can't wait to see what it cost

[DOOMZ]

CAN NOT WAIT!!!!!!

[iQuasar]

Sort of a click bait article, considering most games program for FP16 and not 32. I believe I read an article a ways back that touted AMD having the superior FP32 card to Nvidia (1 or 2 generations back), but sucked at FP16 operations thus why the cards lagged behind the GeForce brand in gaming.

[PCgamer98]

So I guess there's no way in hell this is going to be a 500 dollar console. But I love to be proven wrong.

[kryteris]

I am a little worried that xbox series x is the pro model, the 12tf target really needs to be mainstream.

[Ju]

Actually, if this thing is below $600...can I put Windows 10 on it?

[ChristopherJack]

That's a similar speed to the RX Vega 64, I recall that GPU series doing exceptionally well in FLOPs & while everything else was great, it wasn't by the same margin as the FLOPS.

There's also more than than one way to measure FLOPs so these numbers could be inflated one way or another. That said, still a very impressive number & the 64 still sells at well over $500AUD, even preowned.

If it weren't for the One X, I wouldn't have expected anything more or less than the GTX 1060 for next gen, as it's in a similar position to the Radeon 7870 was for its time, but then Microsoft already released a similarly powerful One X so hearing a performance metric similar to a Vega 64,wouldn't outright surprise me if we got overall similar performance despite its high price.

I would love to see the cost breakdown on these next gen console, they must be getting amazing prices, or maybe the manufacturers have inflated inflated their own prices, or maybe Microsoft & Sony will be selling as loss leaders or with small margins or maybe some combination of these multiple scenarios. There's also the chance that they could sell at a high price again but they'll have to blow us away as that has only hurt everyone who has tried.

[Yosemite]

Well in 2013 Xbox One was at e3 showing games running on PCs with Nvidia graphics cards it was supposed to do 1080p and it did 720p rarely hitting 1080p on paper is totally different than being able to be better when it comes to reality. That goes for any console being on paper its easy to say hey it does this but will it perform that good when it launches that's the question being on paper means nothing at all.