New Pub at Microsoft is a sign there will be a Third Generation Xbox 720

It came out today that the Seattle pub/restaurant Spitfire is going to be expanding to the new office building at Microsoft's campus in Redmond. This building is going to house Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices division that runs the Zune, Xbox and Surface business.

[GWAVE]

Most people expected another Xbox. The REAL question is when will it hit?

Methinks 2010 or early 2011.

[tehReaper]

Yeah I'm thinking 2011. If it comes out before that, I may hold off on getting it until some decent games or features are released.

[The Matrix]

I hope Microsoft makes a better functioning 360 and supports it for at least another 4-5 years although I don't see that happening.

[jaysquared]

The fact that the Wii and the PS3 launched in 2006 I dont see Nintendo and Sony coming out with another console in 2010. I think M$ will milk the 360 and expect the next console at 2011. 6 years later isnt' too bad. But if they do come out with one at 2010 I wouldn't be suprise as well. I wonder what kind of new features it will give us. I'd expect it to have Blu Ray just in time for the MASS MARKET to start adopting the technology.

[Bodhi]

I'm quite open to the idea of a new Xbox, hopefully with alien technology and nuclear powered CPUs. Now we're talking next generation!

I'd buy one if the price is right, no more than $399. They could make it as cheap as they wanted, as long as it is super reliable. It damn well better be reliable Microsoft.

Seeing how the Crysis developers have cited that this generation will probably hit a graphics wall sometime soon, hopefully this Xbox will break that graphics wall.

No motion controls either Microsoft, I don't need no gimmick.

It better have thousands of features and Windows or Zune intergration too.

[hay]

Well, it took 4 years to substitute XBox with Xbox360, I think we may seen first info in 2009 and it may go out in 2010.

[psnDevistator356]

they might actually try to get a 4 or 5 year head start on sony.

LMAO!!!

[RussDeBuss]

i would imagine that whilst the 360 is still selling they wont release the new console, the only reason they killed the original xboxb early and released the 360 when they did was because the original was late into the game and suffered for it, and they were desperate to beat sony in this gen so rushed the 360, and it showed with rrod and dvd9 as standard, which also forced sony to release ps3 early, which showed with the lack of quality dev tools out at relese, and devs complaining about not having dev kits til late

[Panthers]

That is so soon though. This gen has not even really gotten into full swing.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

Not really, this is basically in the middle of the cycle for MS, and 2011 would be around 5 years. MS will probably try to beat the competition again by releasing their next console early, especially considering their 360 prices are reaching mainstream. How much more can they drop the price.

Most likely a new Wii will co-incide with the next Xbox around 2011-12 (is my guess).

I'm all for a shorter cycle, with backwards compatibility support!

[GWAVE]

@ IdleLee

You're all for shorter console life spans? I'm the exact opposite. I used to be an Xbox owner (and a Nintendo/SEGA fan before that) but I was disappointed that the Xbox was dropped after only 4 years, especially since I bought one in Year 3. I am now a Sony supporter because I bought a PS2 and it is STILL being supported by new games. I also bought a PS3 because Sony plans to support it for 10+ years. I can't understand why people would actually want to buy a new system every 5 years when they can buy one console and have it be supported for twice the time...

[miniduf1]

While i agree with you in terms of money issues. I like the fact that every five years i could a new system with a lot of new features and better graphics.

[GWAVE]

@ miniduf

I don't. If I wanted to do that, I would invest in my PC (which I do, because I'm also a big PC gamer). Consoles shouldn't be like PCs. You shouldn't have to upgrade every 5 years. The PS1 and PS2 (and soon the PS3) proved that. They also proved that you can have groundbreaking, AAA titles in those years after the 5-year mark. God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, and Rogue Galaxy ring a bell (not to mention every EA Sports and 2K Sport game).

History shows that the longer a console lasts the more innovation you'll see on a fundamental gameplay level. As gamers, isn't that what we want?

[Bnet343]

If you ask me it got into full swing holiday 2007. look at all the games that came out that year. all were quality.

[Bodhi]

Yeah, holiday season of 2007 was basically this generation's Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando and Halo 2. Right in the midst of the generation. The Shadow of Colossus and the late stuff will be around 2009-2010.

[thenickel]

I want the next box by 2010 and couldn't imagine trying to wait for 10 years. Thank God MS came out with the 360 and pushed the next generation forward. If it had of been Sony and there strange ways then we would of been stuck having to play crap looking PS2 games for 2 more years or so. Sure you could buy a PC but why when your a console gamer. If it bugs you that much with MS releasing it's consoles every 5 years then just stick with what you have and leave it at that. Some you act like Sony had a choice to drop the PS2 if they wanted when they didn't at that's why it's still around. Not even trying to start nothing here but people who only support Sony because of stuff like Gwave said sound so retarded to me.

[kopicha]

what GWAVE say isnt retarded. he does have his point and what he says actually makes sense. its about how wisely you spend. by assuring a long term support in a product is at the same time showing to the consumers that they care about their customer's investment rather than keep dropping what they already establish and come up with new things and think of each and every way to milk their customers. so can i presume you are one of those 360 retard fanboy knowing that the hardware has high breakdown rate yet can blindly buy 2-3 xbox360 within one generation. and pay for some service which are meant to be free and allow m$ to milk the sh1t out of you?

its just like taking a f2p mmo vs a p2p mmo. like for example wow where its p2p, blizz will keep adding new content new stuffs new gears n etcs etcs to keep their cust happy. althou you pay every mth to play it but you are consistently paying the same rate and you will keep getting new stuffs. where f2p mmo usually comes with item mall, and what they do is instead of adding new content they add new items on item mall luring you to purchase them. and those who get hook by it will just blindly buy and buy and buy and eventually you spend more than what you should spend on a regular p2p game. while most ppl always say the game is free n etcs but they never realize how transparent those transactions are. so Sony is like a p2p mmo and M$ is like a f2p mmo if you get the logic. Sony make you pay a little more up front but there is no more transparent transaction afterwards where M$ are trying to show ppl they have the cheapest console out there but eventually you might spend more than you should. i believe someone who buy 360 since day 1 of release, assuming he bought a new 120GB HDD, a wifi adapter and probably even the HD-DVD drive before it was dead. along with the money he spend over the past 2 years on XBL. its even more than someone who bought a PS3 since day one. do the maths.

[thenickel]

Actually I did buy 3 360's at launch and had to send 1 back for warranty which was covered unlike my ps2's and ps1 a year and a half later. MS has shown me more love then Sony ever has and for you to come out saying whatever in his defense is hilarious. Also I don't have to do any math and have been purchasing plenty of PS3's as well as 360's for quite some time now. If you guys want to wait ten years for the PS4 then go ahead but I will always jump on the next big thing.

[SkyGamer]

While I agree with you that the Xbox was real short, only reason why ps2 is still supported is because they make a lot of profit and have such a huge user-base. I am sure that if Ninty or MS had the same success, they would still be supported and the fact that MS owned the ip of the original Xbox components. I hope that this "forward Compat" is for real. Imagine a pc/X360/XNEXT user base. Pretty wild if true!

[AAACE5]

The price of a console tells when the next one will come out!

When we are getting closer to a new console, you will see MS drop one of their SKU's until they are left with 1 (maybe 2), and the price for it will be close to the $150 mark.

Seeing how MS are still selling consoles for $300-$400... I say we are still a ways from a new one yet!

The new console will be announced in 2010,when the price of a 360 will be around $150-$200, and will release holiday 2011.

[Cwalat]

if they release another one, i give them my best wishes... and hopefully.. an ape wont design the hardware so that the rate of failure is low this time around...

and if they don't add free online this time, im seriously gonna visit them and spit on their faces..

[AngryTypingGuy]

I second that. I think they will take their time and make sure the hardware is reliable before releasing it to the public this time around. The biggest reason I know they will...money. Money is the language that MS, and any other big corporation, Sony and Nintendo included, speaks. They don't want another billion dollar design flaw.

As far as free online play, don't hold your breath. In the future, PSN will either catch up with, or become close to the quality of Xbox Live. Let's face it, there can only be so many innovative features on a service like those. When that happens, I think either one of two things will happen: 1) Live becomes free - I would love to see this over number 2. 2) Sony realizes they can bring in more money by charging for PSN accounts. I see 2 as more likely. Afterall, Sony knows that if they charge and piss off some people, it's not like they could jump over to Xbox and play for free, so unless people want to play kiddie games on a Nintendo system that barely supports live play, they just suck it up. Then again, I could be wrong on both accounts, you never know in this business.

[Magic_The_Celt]

and then the 360 will be completely abondoned.

[GWAVE]

No surprise there. Yet Xbox fanboys will defend Microsoft all the same.

[Keele]

And the moment Microsoft abandons the 360, Sony will slowly begin to abandon the Ps3 till it's abandoned completely.

[GWAVE]

@ Keele

Exactly. Just like Sony abandoned the PS2 right when the 360 came out. Oh wait.

Maybe it was just like Sony abandoned the PS2 right when the PS3 came out. Oh wait.

You can cross your fingers and pray to Bill Gates all you want, but Sony has proved time and time again that they will support their hardware with AAA titles much longer than the competition.

[Magic_The_Celt]

just like they abandoned the ps2 uh?...OH WAIT! its still selling strong

hows the original xbox doing? LMFAO thats what i thought

[Cwalat]

you do know PS2 still outsells 360 in many areas right?

and the PS2 is doing really well compared to xbox 1... right?

can you even find a place where they sell xbox anymore?

[Keele]

I never said Ps2 wasn't selling, I said Sony abandoned it when they went with Ps3 and they did.

Argue, whine, try to prove me wrong, but that's the way it is.

LIKE IT OR NOT.

[JohnnyChimpo]

Ya the PS2 is still selling strong, Sony still makes games for it ( rarely ) but there still pushing it out, MS completely abandoned the original Xbox absolutely no games are made for it anymore *cough* dreamcast *cough*, when you compare the PS2 to the Xbox, you cannot say Sony abandoned the PS2. So to make the CLAIM that Sony will abandoned the PS3 is absurd, especially seeing as how Sony has an excellent track record for their consumers with the PS1, PS2, and now PS3. MS does not, in fact they've screwed their consumers. They gave you a console, then yanked it away saying, " it just cost us too much to make, even though we are a multi-billion dollar company, we will not fork over cash for you the consumer. BTW heres the Xbox 360, enjoy that for a few years then repeat process. "

Where as Sony is losing money on the production of PS3, but continues to pump it out, and add these incredible firmware updates that continue to make the PS3 the ultimate media hub. They also say screw exclusive DLC, why do that when we can have our studio's make you a whole new game with innovative ideas. PLUS the PS3 hasn't even been close to being maxed out, designers are still unveiling new ideas because their starting to understand the advanced coding you must do to achieve the level of graphics and gameplay that all PS3 consumers have seen with MGS4, Uncharted, LBP, and now Killzone 2. Shaders are the new next gen, it's not about Poly's anymore, and the 360 is designed to push immense poly's, the PS3 boasts incredible shaders, lighting, draw distance, etc.

It's time for all 360 fans who haven't tried the PS3, to go out and try it. The sh!t you can do on this machine is incredible, the possibilties for media presentations are endless. And these firmware updates are just getting better.

Denie, denie, denie, but MS track record is garbage and you the consumer will find that out when they drop a new console and abndoned the 360!

[AngryTypingGuy]

Actually I think this is a case where MS has learned from Sony. They see Sony's business model and how they are STILL making money from the PS2, while building up the PS3 at the same time.

The only reason Xbox 1 was abandoned was because they hard drive was bleeding them financially. They'll look to keep making profits by supporting the 360 for awhile, while at the same time building up the 720, or whatever it's called.

I guess Sony is good for something besides making you wait 2-3 years to play a great game after all.

[thenickel]

Well if they went with Intel I think they might release the next box in late 2010.

[gnothe1]

man are you serious when you say the PS1 an the PS2 both showed that 5 years is too soon. so i guess with the PS1 launching in 1995 an the PS2 in 200 doesnt count. lets see 1995-2000 is five years going by my calender. an don't forget the PS3 was SUPPOSED to launch along side the 360 in 2005 but Blu ray wasn't finalized so Sony had to wait. but blu ray still wasn't 100% finalized but Sony had no choice but to launch the PS3 or fall even further in a hole to the 360. five years have been the normal time span since gaming basically started so don't act like Sony looks out for its customers an space out it console launches longer.

now Sony is STILL rolling PS2's off the assemble line but what SONY first party games are they making for it. what SONY SUPPORT, theirs a few companies still making PS2 games (EA) but what have SONY released for it lately. I'm not flaming I really don't know!!

[DJ]

Final Fantasy IX, for instance, wasn't even released until the PS2 launch here in the U.S. Even with the 6 year gap between the PS1 and PS2 releases, it felt like the PS2 was released just a tad too early. Same thing happened with the PS3. Firmware and Software wise, it wasn't up to snuff until Spring 2007.

As for PS2 software, they don't need to make anymore. The library is so large and diverse that developers and publishers are simply reaping in profits from their hard work over the past 8 years as late adopters keep exploring that library.

It's a really good system that publishers like EA and Ubisoft truly appreciate. All Sony needs to do when supporting old hardware is release new PS2 units and peripherals. Everything else is a cakewalk.

[Nitrowolf2]

lol i know that picture isnt the real thing but imagine getting an RROD with that

[Covenant]

I don't care what they call it or when it comes out, just so long as it's reliable. Four dead 360s is enough for me.

[gnothe1]

see this is the reason why many people in here don't respect you or your opinions because you LIE you LIE for no reason. i just gave the launch years for the PS1,PS2 an you still come up in here an claim a six(6) year gap between the PS1 an the PS2. man how do you do it an still feel good about yourself!!1995 to 2000 is F I V E (5)years!!!!

then you say it felt like the PS2 was released to early!! come one dude, the PS1 had started to show its age big time. when they started showing PS2 graphics people couldn't wait to get their hands on the PS2 because of the AGING PS1. man your so full of it!!

[Kush_Reaper]

You know whats funny? the fact that in the fith year of the ps3's life, probably all ps3 games will still look better than the 720 lol. Don't believe me? well here is a true fact:

1. Metal Gear Solid 4 looked better than game on the 360 in ps3's second yeah

2. So did Uncharted

3. Heavenly Sword

4. Gran turismo 5:Prologue

Sh!t even LittleBigPlanet looks better than gears.

And then forget Killzone 2 is already making the entire 360 games library look like N64 games. Oh man, i dont eeven want to imagine the games of 2009 and future titles.

PLAY BEYOND NOT BEHIND

[mettalhead70]

Isn't it obvious that there will be another xbox?Why not?There will be another Playstation also but I'm not worried about it and I don't want anymore systems for at least 3 more years.Milk the systems for what their worth.Just look at the ps2.140 million sold and look at the original xbox.Only 20 something million.

[cheapndirty]

2000 minus 1995 equals....6? Man someone help me out.

Back on topic, I expect MS to keep the 360 around like sony is doing with the ps2. Xbox 720 launching in 2011 is fine with me. As long as it has full backwards compatibility (i have 48 360 games and 187 xbox1 games). New consoles every 5-6 has been the norm. And with 16 core cpu's already in development anything MS lauches in 2011 will be considerably more powerful than the ps3. Built in blu ray will part of the console and be much cheaper to produce since it will no longer be "bleeding edge". Wireless N should be the norm as well. No 599.99 launch prices!

[insane_cobra]

My guess is 2011 or 2012. There's still plenty of room for Xbox 360 to grow, they're just introducing a new OS and they said they might even introduce the third one in the future. A slim model is probable as well, especially after they put the CPU and the GPU on a single chip (which is planned, according to the same source that brought us first word about the Jasper revision). Also, they recently said that although Xbox 360 is approaching the install base of 25 million, it's only the beginning because consoles tend to sell three fourths of their final install base at the price point of $199 or lower.

[XboxOZ360]

Sorry for the lengthy post, but it requires several aspects to be addressed and discussed, which can NOT be done in 7 lines of text. So either read on and learn something, or ignor it and call it a rant and be a fanboy. Your choice. As I neither run down SOny in this or build up either, it's simple facts dealing with the issue of the article.

There are many reasons that the x720 will be released sooner, rather than later.

The first xbox was 'never' designed to have a shelf life longer that 5 years tops. It had 2 main function to achieve for MS in the run up to releasing the 360, then known under a different code name (several in fact)

Reason one was simply to introduce a new and easily accessible platform for developers to make games on. When Ed Fries started going around the developers asking what THEY wanted, he got back a unanimous call for quality design toolsets and a platform they could build for quickly.

This is what the first Xbox provided. It also provided one other thing right out of the box on day one . . A full broadband ethernet connection. Sony at the time thought is lame, stupid almost, and said so publicly, stating that the whole system would fail within 2 years, as gamers were not into gaming online, and most likely wouldn't be (they were basing their opinions of Japanese trends, not western and European trends).

XboxLive was planned from day one to be introduced exactly 12 months after the release of the console. It was, almost to the day. This was to get a solid online experience with gamers competing in online games and building a Multiplayer aspect into games being designed by developers used to online gaming via PC's . . This was to be followed by a "visual representation' in the newer platform, and the NEW XboxLIVE for the following hardware - the 360. (the NXE is the forerunner for the next step in online gaming btw)

It achieve this goal perfectly, and even Sony Phil Harrison saw this and tried (in vain) to convince Sony that they really needed to look seriously at online gaming, and make it a standard feature in the PS2 . .They did not listen to him, and now they are sorry they didn't. Which is just one of the reasons he "moved on from Sony".

For those who don't know, and not many do, the 360 was actually in development when the 1st-gen Xbox was approaching release . . yes, that long ago. The 1st-Gen Xbox was simply the "stepping stone" for it to get into the gaming market as a standalone platform separate to the PC, which MS had become synonymous with over the years.

Execs as late as Nov 2002 (release in 2003)(when the 1st-gen Xbox was released, were asked to put together a white paper (3 in fact) it was later dubbed the XE 30 (use google). In this paper it laid down the plan for not only the 1st-gen xbox, and the following console (the 360) but also for its successor . . an as yet un-named model that would be released within ten years of the 1st-gens release date, if not sooner if all went well.

In that paper it states that they estimated they could comfortably lose $US6.3bil on the xbox and its following models before they would 'consider' looking at an alternative. That was a worse case scenario,not an optimal case scenario.

The current 360 is making a profit for every unit produced, which is on track with that 2003 paper's estimates and forecasts..

There is another reason the x720 will be out sooner - rather than later, well 2 actually.

Yes, the 360 will have a "life span" of 10 yrs . . so will the PS3 . . . but "life span" does not equal only console available for sale by the manufacturer. Sony is currently hard at work in Germany on some aspects of the PS4. They know they can never make a profit on the PS3, and the only way to do that - is to come out with a new model that is better designed (financially not necessarily technically, as it's a great machine as it is. But it will never be made or produced at a profit, let alone a break-even point.Even their head CEO Sir Howard Stringer has openly stated this in interviews.

So what of the 360 ?

Well the 360 has had several new motherboards, and rightfully so, as the first one was a disaster from day one. Not because it's "original design was flawed" - but because of the been-counters within MS Xbox-Div (more MS Corp actually) to remove the watercooler that WAS fitted to the motherboard PRIOR to its public release - Use google to fine the early 360 specs and you'll find it has a liquid cooled motherboard that did not get hot, and could withstand temps of in excess of 50 deg celcius.

The removal of this watercooler meant that the area where it was fitted became weakned and subject to bending and fracture, As the watercooler held the Motherboard in place and stopped the board from flexing. As well as keeping it cool.

SO the initial design was fine, the idea of removing an expensive component was the flaw. Anyhow, I digress . . . The 360 has had several mother boards, with the latest being the Jasper ( http://xboxoz360gamer.com/2... and soon to be followed by the Opus (which will be used in new version in early 2009 or in late 2008. The following motherboard, code named Vallhalla is the new-gen motherboard. It will sport a unified CPU/GPU as well as many other features including smaller nano construction of the waffers for the chipsets. ( http://www.destructoid.com/...

We will be doing a several part series feature soon of on the evolution of the Xbox Platform . .

The Vahalla is due for release in LATE 2009 or early 2010 . .naturally this will be in the new x720 due to its radical change in design.

This will mean that the 360 becomes the cheaper alternative, it's just had yet another drop in price of between $AU100 - $AU50 here in Australia, and is still making a production profit. Much like the PS2 became for Sony.

The 360 will become the PS2 for the Xbox platform, with the newer x720 being the new kid on the block and sold as a standalone item that fully supports all pre-existing disc based games, as well as all downloadable games, including full sized games that will not get sold in disc format.

The first of which will be made available in March of 2009 which will only be available through Xbox LIVE, PSN and Steam for PC.

Th e360 will still be on shelves for 10 years, but the x720 will be sitting right next to it, offering families two main options. The cheaper higher end family orientated platform as a starting point - namely the 360. Or, the higher end model with several more newer features not available in the 360. Which will be more to do with online acontent and broadband features than anything else.

It will become, for want of a better term, a Set-Top-Box . .which is what Mr Gates wanted it tpo be and said so in 2006.

The PS3 will make way for the PS4 not long after the x720 fronts on the stands, and the PS3, while still being an excellent machine, but NOT making a production line profit will be curtailed at some stage. Hopefully not too soon, as Sony will be hoping that the sales of the PS4 can carry the ailing machine (not due to performance, so I'm NOT knocking the machine - okay) further than they expect,as it is their flagship for Blu-Ray movies, much like the PS2 was Sony's flagship for the DVD player. (do some googling to find out why the PS2 sold very few games in its first year of sales in Japan). Game retailers were furious, as customers were coming in, buying the PS2 and leaving, no perifferals or games under their arms . . Gin, use google

Gamers need ti get out of the thinking that longer means better, and that a 10 life span means 10 yrs before anything else comes out. No (read NO) manufacture with their head screwed on the right way would even contemplate such a venture. It would be technological suicide to even think it.

Just look at LCD and Plasma TV's as an example. They must have new product in the works soon as the current one goes on sale, it takes them several months to get the newer one worked out, by which time retailers are beginning to knock prices down as customers demand more features.

When the 360 was launch - well 6 weeks prior to it) the design team, not production team) was split in two. One team went with J Allard into developing the Zune (as ill-fated as it is) and the other team went straight into the minimization of the 360 (normal business practice for any component) and also working towards the x720.

So expect a x720 somewhere around the period Late December 2009 (usually November for MS as both Nov and April are their main launch windows for major 1st party items) to march/April 2010 for the x720 to be release, with news of it coming somewhere around October 2009.

All this can be validated by doing some simple reading ans searching . . .

[doctorstrange]

too much writing

[XboxOZ360]

Well would you rather a guess at what is happening, or some history and knowledge of what is happening ?? :-) There's no way to explain that without lots of words.

[insane_cobra]

A lot of speculation, actually.

Nobody needs to actually release a console in order to provide developers with a new platform to develop for. Developers will have the new console (or at least the new tools and console specs) long before its public release.

My biggest problem is with this: "The Vahalla is due for release in LATE 2009 or early 2010 . .naturally this will be in the new x720 due to its radical change in design."

There's nothing "natural" about it and neither is it such a radical change of design. It's simply an integration of already existing components (the same way PS2 revisions from V14 onward have integrated GS and EE chips) and there's nothing to suggest that Valhalla will be the basis of Xbox 720. In fact, the original report ( http://www.8bitjoystick.com... refers to Valhalla (which is supposedly the name of the new integrated chip and not the motherboard) specifically as the last known Xbox 360 revision.

Yes, Xbox 360 won't disappear from the shelves like Xbox did after the next Xbox launches, but I sincerely doubt that would happen as soon as 2010 - certainly not in 2009.

[XboxOZ360]

The Valhalla IS scheduled for release in the new x720, there's no speculation about that. Several sources including those close to MS Xbox-DIv have stated that the motherboard will be released in the period late 2009 to early 2010. This fits in perfectly with MS Xbox-Div XE 30 white paper of 2003 regarding the time schedule of the xbox, 360 and the following console . . .

If you want to read up on that, then say it's 'speculation' please do . . . Re the 8bitjoystick articles, that too is more speculation than fact. I have a tendency to believe articles produced by GameIndustry.biz, VentureBeat and their ilk, as they do a great deal of investigation into an article. And both of those show the new xbox coming in 'around' that period. And Venture capatialist usually know well beforehand as to what WILL be happening, as they are the ones supplying thefunds for such ventures.

More articles point to the Vahalla being the new unified GPU/CPU (which is the major section of the motherboard), not "just" the chipset. It's how they name the "motherboards" . . Of course the chipset is part of the motherboard, which has to change in order to accept the chipset due to physical changes . . and routing changes . . so it's classified as a "new motherboard" . .

They have been working on the x720 since September 2005, including reducing the internal components of the current 360. given that is the case, which it is, then a release of the x720 in 2010 would be more probable than simple guess work. I've not been wrong with most of my predictions around the things MS Xbox-Div have been doing since launch regarding both games and hardware. Some have been a tad off, but many closer to the mark than wild guessing like some.

If you check the internals of each progressive motherboard in each 360 model, you will see some mild changes and some radical changes in the shape and layout, all requiring a new motherboard, not some new holes drilled here and there to accept a new item etc. It's how they reduce the production costs. By reducing the number of components, reducing the cost of those components and then dropping the production line costs.

The 360 has had 3 prices drops, the last one being quite substancial. This hasn't been due to them trying to catch up with Sony, it's due to their XE 30 plan of reducing the production costs, dropping the unit to a desired magic $US figure (usually $US199) and making way for the more costly x720 7 years after the launch of the Xbox.

Again, read the XE 30,and it states quite clearly those dates or time frames, not speculation, but facts straight from a MS white paper. For more details, also try reading Opening the Xbox: Inside Microsoft's Plan to Unleash an Entertainment Revolution(published 2002), plus - The Xbox 360 Uncloaked: The REAL STORY Behind Microsoft's Next-Generation Video Game Console (published 2006). These were by respected video game journalist Dean Takahashi. I have a signed copied right in front on me on my desk from Dean.

He's not a MS supporter, but a solid reporter, recently writing a scathing report on the removal of the watercoooler and choices made by the been-counters when the first 360 was released that ultimately caused such a fiasco. If they had of left it in, there would have been no RROD's and while the unit would have cost more initially, the public would have accepted it more in the "long term". So he's not shy of saying bad things about MS Xbox-Div.

On a side note . .Everyone associates MS as being the xbox . .In fact, the Xbox-Div is a separate section withing MS, not MS Corp. Both have totally different ideas and ways of doing things. If it wasn't for this fact, we'd NOT have the Xbox as we know it, but have a thing called WebTV, which at the time was also pitching a separate idea to MS Corp. It would have a unit with the main idea of being a set-top-box (which Gates wanted) with a smaller section devoted to games.

The first guys that teamed up to design and build the Xbox had to fight to get it approved, and were all gamers, game developers/programers who basically were dragged from MS Corp, or who showed a desire to join the team. It also included ppl from Apples design teams and Nintendo's design team later on in the piece.

SO no, not a lot of speculation, just facts.

Which anyone can verify if they are willing to read through several hundred pages of text . . but most gamers can't be bothered reading 7 lines of text, let alone a hundred pages or more. All our writer on the site are give both books to read so they know a deeper understanding of the platform, and how Sony and Nintendo opperated at that time. So that if they see a news item based around speculation, it can be corrected and validated with the facts.

I'mm not knocking Sony or anything here, simply supplying ppl with some facts to stop speculation . . .which many seem to want to do, over actually finding out about the facts behind something.

[Bodhi]

That's an insane amount of research there. Kudos, I actually sat here and read both your exceptionally huge posts and they make sense. I don't think MS will release the 720 so early though, they will probably wait until E3 '09 or '10 to announce it and wait until November or October of the year to sell it for the incoming holidays.

You might want to blog that and cite your sources. Good read. Better than most things sent in here at N4G.

[XboxOZ360]

Thanks mate. We will be having a section on the site soon based around the History of the platform, how it was created. Giving names, dates and factual information on how the console actually got here. And where it is leading.

Bill Gates had very little to do with the whole thing actually, and really didn't believe it was a viable thing. Plus, if it wasn't for the steadfast guys within the team, the xbox would have a lite version of MS XE operating system running it, which would have been tandamount to suicide at the time.

Look up two ppl, Ed Fries and Seamus Blackley, without whom, we'd have no xbox as a platform. You'll be surprised at what you'll find.

[pshizle]

around 2010

[XboxOZ360]

Try reading the Sony and MS history lesson in the other section rather than reprint it here. All factually based and no guessing. Itall can be validated if you use goigle and a few good books on the subjects.

Both Sony and MS have reasons for doing what they do. You'll see a PS4 before too long, and the x720 will be on sale while the 360 is still on shelves, so will the PS3 as the PS2 will be phased out soon enough.

Sony are right now working on the PS4 in Germany. do some digging you Sony fans, and you'll actually learn something. The ONLY war out there is the stupid war between fanboys . . . . .

The rest of the industry is simply getting on with business while you guys fight between each other, and don't take time out to actually read up on the subject matter.

[GodGinrai]

That was a good read, dude.though i dont like the idea of buying halo 4 (or any "full" games as downloads .I like my collectors editions with the steel tins,and on some kind of disc. lookin forward to that evolution of xbox article,i love reading all that behind the scenes stuff .make sure you give us the link to it when its ready.

[tojfs7931]

Go microsoft!