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Modder slips the surly bonds of P.T. and explores Silent Hill outside

There’s a whole town out there, waiting for a video game that will never come

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Wasabi476d ago (Edited 476d ago )

How amazing that modders were able to discover this. To think that much of Kojima's work already existed within the P.T demo and was ready to be played. Now it never will be, and that really saddens me.

#f*ckKonami

I_am_Batman476d ago

It wasn't ready to be played. It's just the scenery from the Silent Hills cutscene at the end of P.T.

Wasabi476d ago (Edited 476d ago )

OMG You're so right!!

How could I ever have been so wrong! Here's me making a simple comment about the fact that it was such a shame that the time and effort of the team working on this game went to waste when Konami shut it down, when all along what I should have been thinking was this was already created for a cutscene so no harm done. If only I had I am Batman around to help me think straight when I posted that comment...

Also, why would they render an entire Street in highly detailed 3D with multiple highly detailed LODS just for a cutscene...?

Here's a theory... Maybe the street was meant to be played and the cutscene just happened to use that street...

1Victor476d ago

It could had been patched to be able to play outside whenever they wanted

I_am_Batman476d ago

@1Victor:

Yeah but it would require additional work to make it playable. This is raw map data without any player interaction whatsoever.

I_am_Batman476d ago (Edited 476d ago )

"Also, why would they render an entire Street in highly detailed 3D with multiple highly detailed LODS just for a cutscene...? "

Because that's how video game develoment works. You could do the same thing with every video game that has real-time cutscenes. There wouldn't be a reason to lower the LOD of the assets if the PS4 can easily render them in the highest LOD available for that cutscene.

Sure they could've reused some of those assets in Silent Hills, but this map was created for the cutscene and doesn't feature any player interaction or even basic collision data (because it wasn't needed to create the cutscene). Therefore it was not ready to be played.

The Silent Hills cancelation didn't retroactively impact the P.T. demo.

Wasabi476d ago

@Batman

***"Because that's how video game develoment works"***

No it isn't. You don't draw a full a full street scene with full detail LOD's if they are to be viewed at a distance. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Wasabi476d ago (Edited 476d ago )

@Batman

***"LOD refers to the geometric complexity a 3D object is rendered at...."***

Thanks for the explanation, I'm quite aware of what the term refers to, It was me that first mentioned it.

***"If you have objects that will only be seen from a certain viewing distance, you can save time by not modeling a highly-detailed object in the first place"***

The highly detailed apartment building exterior which is intricately modelled in 3D from but viewed from a distance in the cutscene does not conform to these rules, nor does the flora that exists in areas out of view of the P.T cutscene, why render this level of detail only for it to not be visible in the final product?

***"You don't seem to realise that a pre-rendered cutscene requires 3D-models. If anything a pre-rendered cutscene would've meant a lot more work"***

No. I understand perfectly. What you don't seem to understand and the reason I doubt you have any real world experience in what you are talking about is that when rendering assets that are to be used solely for a cutscene, time and man hours are not wasted on texturing and geometry of objects that will not be seen. Time is money and outside of Indie passion projects where time and money is no object, assets rendered and textured in full 3D are only used for in-engine cutscenes that are likely used to be a playable aspect of the final product, otherwise only the texturing and geometry visible in the cutscene will be rendered fully.

***"Because it has to be included in the game data to be able to load the cutscene"***

Yes but as a non playable cutscene not part of a bigger project the scene could just as easily have been rendered and encoded as a high quality video stream, this would have resulted in the added benefit of a smaller filesize.

***"Not sure which garage you mean as I'm frankly to lazy to rewatch the video again, especially because it's completely irrelevant to my argument"***

How convenient, I am talking about the fully rendered 3D garage / structure accessible from angles not visible in the cutscene,why not just render a block and texture the exterior if the intention was for the player to never have access. Not irrelevant to your argument at all.

***"the death scene with Lisa is triggered by getting out of bounds which could have a bunch of different reasons that are completely unrelated to this area"***

It could have a whole bunch of reasons that you cannot explain, yet is explained perfectly by the area being a playable area of the final product P.T may have become. In addition the video even makes reference to the developers intending that players access the area and implementing the cutscene upon the players demise.

***"though they might've reused some of the assets as it would've used the same engine"***

In the same way as they may have re-used the assets from a playable area intended for the final product to create a cutscene for P.T itself.

***"Somehow it turned into an unnecessary argument about things completely unrelated to this claim"***

Yes it did, considering the essence of my original comment was "it's a shame that kojima's work on P.T will not get to be experienced by gamers" I hold you responsible for this.

I_am_Batman476d ago (Edited 476d ago )

Again. LOD streaming of duplicated assets only matters for optimisation. This cutscene wasn't meant to maximise visual fidelity and was probably made in a short amount of time by a handful of people. Even if LOD was implemented here you probably wouldn't notice it because the game engine would stream the higher detailed assets as soon as you get closer with the camera. As for non duplicates you absolutely see assets that aren't as highly detailed as others. Those assets happen to be the ones that are exclusively used in areas that are far away from the FOV of the camera (because there is no reason to create higher detailed versions if they aren't used in the foreground).

I'm scratching my head whether I simply misunderstood what you are trying to say or whether you don't understand what I'm trying to say. If there is no misunderstanding then I don't know how you come to the conclusion that this was created to be playable in the face of all the evidence that points to the contrary.

Wasabi476d ago (Edited 476d ago )

@Batman

No misunderstanding Batman. In one sentence you state that that high LOD values are only relevant for optimisation, in the next you state that obvious placeholder textures used on some of the vehicles are due to being viewed at a distance, so which one is it because by the logic stated earlier everything should be rendered at the same level of detail because optimisation is not an issue?

Also, if the area was never intended to be played, why not simply use a CGI cutscene and save hundreds of man hours of 3D modeling, Why include the area in P.T at all? Why render the garage in full 3D viewable and accessible from any direction? Why program in the Death Scene with Lisa?

In the full game after the cutscene had played what area do you think the player controlled protagonist would have started from? What about the starting room not featured in the cutscene and not accessible from the P.T demo itself?

As for P.T not featuring collision data, there are numerous examples of playable DLC areas in games today that players were able to access prior to the DLC release but featured no collision data at the time, Destiny and The Division being just two examples of many.

I_am_Batman476d ago (Edited 476d ago )

LOD refers to the geometric complexity a 3D object is rendered at. The same assets are used multiple times throughout a scene to save work-hours and RAM. If an object is rendered at different viewing distances LOD can help to reduce GPU load. That's why I call it optimisation. If the scene preforms fine without LOD you don't need to implement it.

If you have objects that will only be seen from a certain viewing distance, you can save time by not modeling a highly-detailed object in the first place (the car at 6:52 for example). This only makes sense here because they knew where the camera would be. If this was meant to be playable, there would be high detailed versions of those assets.

"Also, if the area was never intended to be played, why not simply use a CGI cutscene and save hundreds of man hours of 3D modeling?"

You don't seem to realise that a pre-rendered cutscene requires 3D-models. If anything a pre-rendered cutscene would've meant a lot more work.

"Why include the area in P.T at all?"

Because it has to be included in the game data to be able to load the cutscene.

Not sure which garage you mean as I'm frankly to lazy to rewatch the video again, especially because it's completely irrelevant to my argument. And the death scene with Lisa is triggered by getting out of bounds which could have a bunch of different reasons that are completely unrelated to this area. It could be that they made it as a failsafe or it might not be intentional at all. Without looking at the source code it's impossible to tell, but it's hardly evidence of anything.

I'm also pretty sure that Kojima said that Silent Hills would've been very differnt from P.T and that P.T. was a teaser, not a demo. So I don't think that the "full game" would include anything from P.T. (though they might've reused some of the assets as it would've used the same engine)

Since the game doesn't use pre-rendered cutscenes every map file is accessible if you modify the gamecode to load into it. My whole point was that the map wasn't meant to be played as it is in here aka it's "not ready to be played". Somehow it turned into an unnecessary argument about things completely unrelated to this claim.

Xaevi476d ago (Edited 476d ago )

Love this channel, always so interesting to see what's beyond the boundaries in games. Such a shame they made PT un-downloadable

Wasabi476d ago

@Xaevi

I think there's a workaround to re-download P.T using a simple server redirect if you already have it in your library, if it's not in your library I think you're out of luck.

Nacho_Z476d ago

I liked the demo a lot but it was years ago and it's never getting made into a full game. I don't really get what the obsession still is for some people. Here's hoping Kojima makes a horror game next anyway, he's got a flair for it.

1Victor476d ago

If you played the demo or saw the reactions videos you’ll know the game was a true horror game add to that the silent hill setting with all the freaky monsters, named actors horror movie director in the team, famous actor as the hero and Kojima renown for his story telling , it was the holly grail of horror video games.
It’s a shame that the game never got made and I as well hope kojima make a horror game in the future, maybe his company avatar game will be a sci-fi horror game 🤞

MasterCornholio476d ago

It's sad that it never got made.

MetalGearAlex475d ago

https://arturlaczkowski.itc... We got People like Artur from Poland who have successfully recreated PT from PS4. check it out. it's a stable release and I'm glad Lance can hack PT to show us all this good stuff too! :D