1000°

Guerrilla dev: PS3's Cell CPU is by far stronger than new Intel CPUs

The PS3's cell CPU is still more powerful than any of today's modern Intel desktop chips, Guerrilla Games co-director and technical director Michiel van der Leeuw says.

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tweaktown.com
Jin_Sakai2006d ago (Edited 2006d ago )

“Even desktop chips nowadays, the fastest Intel stuff you can buy is not by far as powerful as the Cell CPU, but it's very difficult to get power out of the Cell. I think it was ahead of its age, because it was a little bit more like how GPUs work nowadays, but it was maybe not balanced nicely and it was too hard to use. It overshot a little bit in power and undershot in usability, but it was definitely visionary”

Sony Worldwide Studios pushed what the Cell CPU was capable of and it showed. It’s too bad it was such a pain to develop for and wasn’t used to it’s full potential by 3rd party developers.

Can’t imagine what the Cell CPU would be like today if it were standardized and developers learned how to develop for it.

Jaguar CPUs in current generation consoles are garbage and a huge bottleneck. So happy we’re getting powerful Ryzen desktop CPUs next generation.

UltraNova2006d ago

True.

I remember the ps3 launch days like yesterday. The weird -out of this world adds, the discussions, the benchmarks... it was everything a new console gen had to be to make that period magic. Unfortunately, we wont get to live that "magic" again as Sony and MS will never risk making such revolutionary tech as the Cell.

That said, AMD and their Ryzen 2 architecture are beasts in their own right. Every tech blog/site praises it for its efficiency, IPS and multicore performance. The current RDNA GPU architecture is not top tier yet but I have high hopes in Sony's and MS's customization abilities so that means we will get significantly improved Navi chips with the next gen consoles with Ray tracing to boot. Add the fact that next gen will be designed around SSDs and yeah the advancements over current gen are evident.

All in all the wait for next gen full spec reveal and their launch is still exciting and I'm happy for that.

2005d ago
frostypants2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

Just to be clear, the Cell was primarily developed by IBM (one of the few truly interesting things IBM has done in recent years, IMO...far more interesting than their overhyped Watson nonsense), with Sony and Toshiba attached. They actually sold servers using it as well, but even in that market it's pretty much dead now. The software side of things just never caught up...be it gaming, business, or science applications, it was too much manual effort for devs to take advantage of the architecture and the community never got the critical mass to address that (because developing those tools would have been a massive task itself, and there wasn't enough adoption to justify the effort).

It's a bummer because it was pretty amazing. But future CPUs will have more and more in common with the Cell.

milohighclub2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

Leave it to ducktard to think he knows better than the technical director and studio veteran Michiel van der Leeuw
who had 20yrs @ guerilla under his belt.

Zeref2005d ago

It's not revolutionary if it's a pain in the butt to develop for 😂

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2005d ago
sprinterboy2005d ago

Agreed, imagine the games today on ps4 if they went with the cell and 8gb ram? Instead of the jaguar? Great talented studios got the best out of the cell but because 360 was the lead console at the time it never got the love it deserved from 3rd party (lazy devs and cell being hard to use contributed)

JG102005d ago

I wouldn't say lazy, my guess would be not wanting to spend the money for the extra man hours it would take

Minute Man 7212005d ago

So what happened when EA made that Burnout game on the PS3 first and ported it to the 360?? The Xbox ran the game just fine. No downgrade, no framerate problems.

ApocalypseShadow2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

I still wonder to this day what the Cell was capable of if all 8 SPEs were turned on and was towards games and not worrying about all the other features people expected the system to have based on Xbox launching first. Not one journalist has asked about 8 SPEs turned on.

I think first party games would have been even better. Just think what Killzone 2 or Motorstorm would have been like.

Not only that, but based on Folding at Home, I think if two or three PlayStations or Cell pack expansions were connected, the power would have been ridiculous. GT would have looked even more real than it did.

UltraNova2005d ago

I'm still wondering what a Cell v2.0 with 2 or 4 PPEcores + 16 SPEs could do today that devs are finally accustomed to parallel/multicore coding...

DarXyde2005d ago

One SPE was always disabled for yield defect purposes; the other ran in reverse for the operating system.

It was a strange architecture, for sure.

frostypants2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

To this day, tools do not exist to make developing an application that takes full advantage of the Cell an efficient process. Yes, more could have been done, but even developing for a slightly gimped Cell was difficult (we're only talking about one SPE here though...I'd argue nobody ever took full advantage of even the available ones). The software development infrastructure available to efficiently develop for that sort of architecture was, and remains, SO far behind the hardware capability. Somebody needs to develop the tools for the developers, and even if the community pushing for that was larger it is still a highly difficult task. If it's extremely difficult (not simply time consuming) for devs to manually figure out the best way to balance/distribute the processing burden, that makes automating it well even more insanely tough. It's hard to automate complex trial and error.

ApocalypseShadow2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

Darxyde, I'm aware about redundancy and one for applications. It still doesn't answer the question on what 8 SPEs could have done.

Would 2 more working have created even better physics or explosions or helped with A.I., etc. It would be an interesting interview to hear it from a Sony developer. Or from someone on the Ice Team. But no one has asked.

When I mention looks, it's about that extra that makes something more real. I doubt the graphics would have changed much. But physics and A.I. could have looked amazing with more help. Motorstorm already had great mud. But crashes would have looked even better. Maybe even more frame rate speed. I don't know. But would like to know. When Sony showed that gas station explosion tech demo, I expected more. Same with that Getaway demo of all the people and vehicles. Or the car being shot in the desert and the bullet holes tech demo. I wanted more of that in games on PS3.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2005d ago
PlayableGamez-2005d ago ShowReplies(6)
fatbastard112005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

Where’s the source on desktop CPUs? They’re most likely custom downscaled versions and not even close to the clock speeds of desktop Ryzens. Do people really think they’re getting a RTX 2070+Desktop Ryzen+2Tb SSD for $500? That’s the definition of delusion.

milohighclub2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

Dont forget sony will be shifting at least 60 million of all the components. They will be purchasing them in the 10s of millions and will get them at a fraction of a price.

Seems they have a very good relationship with AMD at the moment so expect they're getting good deals.

Whatever's In the box you can expect performance gains above what a 2070 can do.
It doesnt even launch for another year, dont expect it to be outdated on launch this time.
Then wait til the likes of naughty dog max it out.
100% there'll be nothing that comes close to what it'll be doing, on xbox or pc.

PC and X will mostly be held back by the xbox one x thanks to their forward compat. xbox family.

Loktai2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

The CELL continued to be used in IBM enterprise level equipment and where the base OS is capable of distributing use of cores across LPARs(logical partitions, like a virtual machine instance that can be IPLd separately as needed) it's quite efficient . It's really a PPC style RISC core ...

Rude-ro2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

It was controlled..
not about how hard it was to develop for..
Anything new is hard to wrap your head around..
But there are higher powers that did not want Sony creating a better pathway in computing.
To say it came down to developing video games and the eventual tools that got released is a total lack of reality.

To take on how computing works is to take on Microsoft, google, Apple etc... Apple has their own game plan, but Microsoft could have been put in a huge pickle at the time.

Nineball21122005d ago

Does anyone else remember being able to use the function on your PS3 that allowed colleges or research teams to use your PS3 in a network? I think they were using the CELL to run different research programs or something like that.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 2005d ago
phoenixwing2006d ago

almost makes you wonder what it would have been like if they'd kept making cell based consoles for ps4 and 5. However, i think sony made the right move as a business. People just aren't willing to spend a lot and cheaper off the shelf cpu's cut costs significantly.

DarXyde2005d ago

I would not exactly call the next generation hardware off the shelf. It is based on familiar architecture, but that's it—both are custom built and will very likely synergize well with the other components far better than any off the shelf parts could. Sony and Microsoft really did great in simplifying development for their partners by both going with x86 because it helps cut costs and time with ports and multiplatform titles. This continuation into next generation is a solid move, for sure.

It is true that CELL was something else, but also true that it was pretty difficult to utilize.

2005d ago
DarXyde2005d ago

Cloud computing is certainly possible, but I am still highly skeptical about its application. If you ask me, we have yet to see anything genuinely impressive but Microsoft using the technology yet. I am sure it is possible, but I simply do not believe in Microsoft. No need to tell. Just show.

Kaze882005d ago

@cigi have you been playing on pc with DX12? If you had, you would know that it's utter trash. more than half the time DX12 is worse performer than DX11. Even some games are unable to function on DX12 mode. Even the games that run better on DX12 have like 5-10fps edge on DX11. Another thing raytracing, shure a nice graphical look but a real fps killer. even on 10XX nvidia series raytracing totally bogs down your fps. You can have it though you must love that sweet 30fps. As for could compute, I hope you remember crackdown 3 mp. Do not forget that it was reviewed as of one of the worst mp in the whole year.

stuckNhere4Good2001d ago (Edited 2001d ago )

PD gave the world an early glimpse of what a CELL-based PS4 would've been like when it connected four PS3's together to run GT5 in native 4K at 60fps/2K at 240fps... https://www.gtplanet.net/gr... , https://www.gtplanet.net/gr...

Its fair to say had things gone Ken Kutaragi's way, native 4K/60fps for most if not all PS4 games, PS3 backwards compatibility, native 4K rendering of all PS3 games and PS VR games rendered at up to 120fps per eye (240fps in total) would've been just a few features ready to go out of the box courtesy of 'Quad Cell/B.E'... https://image.slidesharecdn... , https://image.slidesharecdn... (it had four times the number of PPEs and SPEs compared to CELL... https://forum.beyond3d.com/... ) and whatever Geforce-based GPU it would've been hitched to.

Shame people aren't willing to spend more for top-end consoles. The market is becoming a race to the bottom. We'll see how good that turns out for the industry/community in the long run.

MrVux0002005d ago

Yup, which is why i was kinda dissapointed SONY went to a more safer route with PS4.They could have achieved much more if they sticked with CELL.

GTgamer2005d ago

it would of been a unnecessary cost tbh but i hear you, if they had put more time into upgrading Cell to make easier to develop for this gen who knows what they could of done with it.

Loktai2005d ago

More potential performance but a whole new generation of bad ports and with the popularity of PC gaming you're much better off making it easy for games to be brought to your system.

That being said the first party titles of course they would be spectacular .... but you'd end up with issues like xbox360 where some games run better even though it's weaker on paper ... and that's factoring in that they both used a PPC architecture

bluebenjamin2005d ago

Me too I really expected them to use cell Since they said they would use it in Ps4 but they didn’t just imagine Horizon Zero Dawn would have benn 70 fps lol

Stanjara2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

On paper yes, and they had the idea of running gpu calculations on it. Reality was that they had to call Nvidia for a gpu chip and had to split memory and over engineered it.
I'm am so glad that Sony moved on from it.
Maybe Jaguar cores are inferior, but games never looked better, and also can be backwards compatible (running on ps5). They are also easier to port to other platforms, or to port other platforms on it.

Cell never again.

stuckNhere4Good2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

Never say never.

Stanjara2005d ago

Go to PS store, click on ps3, and see the number of total games in upper left corner.
Then click on PS4 and see the same number.
It isn't a fair comparison, cause there are multiple iterations of the same game, and also pre orders, but still ps3 had longer generation.
Cell was not good for developers, for Sony (expensive) and it wasn't good for the end consumer cause he got less content.
Cell was also planed for Sony's other products like TVs and laptops- nope.
I actually can compare it to Kinect-
fantastic tech that was too expansive and never implement as intended.

343_Guilty_Spark2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

Powerful in what way? Floating point operations, single threaded operations, multi-threaded applications, physics, graphics processing?

2005d ago Replies(1)
sinspirit2005d ago (Edited 2005d ago )

Versatility. PowerPC architecture which are beast for number crunching. Obviously, this versatility requires tons of effort on the developers part. Some of the lighting in KillZone 2 was rendered by the CPU rather than the GPU. The game had a ridiculous amount of light sources and effects on screen especially for its time. This is why they had a ray-tracing demo with the Cell. A CPU that is efficient enough to be used to do work normally done by the GPU if need be. And, simply being very powerful for the time and a number crunching machine.

I don't get the single/multi-threaded questions. Cause only the PPE had two threads. If I understand it right. The Cell would assign tasks to the SPU's onto local memory for each one and they would solve it and send it back completely rather than feeding it bits at a time for it to send back here and there. And, they could work in parallel very efficiently. So, it would end up being able to do some complex stuff. Its theoretical performance ended up having more real world results especially in calculations, simulations, and scientific types of applications. It's one of the stepping stones to APU's that we have today. Basically, it was far more smart to focus on the GPU with the PS4. Luckily, next gen will have a Ryzen CPU that won't be such a bottleneck and the GPU will only hold itself back at that point.

Bluemaster772005d ago

These are appropriate questions left unanswered by the article.

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140°

Introducing Project Defiant, the first wireless fight stick designed by Sony

First look at the upcoming controller, which uses PlayStation Link technology to deliver wireless connectivity with ultra-low latency for fighting games.

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blog.playstation.com
darthv721d 9h ago

Interesting.... I'll get one.

1d 5h ago
Babadook71d 5h ago (Edited 1d 5h ago )

Great for Marvel Tokon Fighting
Souls (which looked amazing).

Disccordia1d 1h ago

It can also be used wired which is fairly important to note. Anybody using this thing competitively won't go anywhere near wireless.

170°

CD Projekt RED History Suggests The Witcher 4 Demo May Be More Marketing Than Gameplay

The history of CD Projekt RED suggests that the recently shown demo for The Witcher 4 may be more marketing than actual gameplay.

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twistedvoxel.com
Sonyslave31d 16h ago

Not only CDPR but Epic Games as well i still haven't seen any game with that fidelty of that Ps5 tech demo .. that was 2020

VenomUK1d 8h ago (Edited 1d 8h ago )

Digital Foundry in its reaction video said they believe the demo reflects real performance, as overstating it’s competence on PS5 could bring significant risks to Epic Games’ shareholders and legal risks.

https://youtu.be/5PIyPpB83V...

Eonjay16h ago

Actually Horizon Forbidden West exceeds this in image quality. So it seems very plausible. Intergalactic is actually beyond this presntation in IQ, RT and resolution and thats locked 60FPS as well. As far as the usage of hardware RT in UE, they were able to reduce the CPU overhead.

This was a tech demo for UE 5.6. That was clearly stated and is evident by the presentation itself where several of the new features of UE are highlighted

This article title is inaccurate because this was not a demo for Witcher 4. It was a technical demonstration of Unreal Engine 5.6.

Christopher1d 15h ago (Edited 1d 15h ago )

***Cyberpunk 2077’s gameplay features that were showcased in initial footage but never made it into the final game***

They literally made a big deal of telling everyone that they changed the gameplay of CP2077 during development and then did a new demo of the game with the new gameplay. There was no hiding this to the public. CP2077's problem with the buggy as heck and obviously too early release.

This is really bad journalism to promote this line of thinking. It's an attempt to rewrite history. You can definitely say you preferred the initial demo, but they were very open and clear when they moved from third-person to first-person that it would include major changes in gameplay and showed those off multiple times a year prior to the game's release.

---

As to the point of this article? Yeah, the whole event is a marketing event. I don't trust anything until it's released, tbh. No matter who is making it. I can still be excited by what I see, but it's not going to get me to pre-order a game or get me to go out there and sell what I saw as if it will be just like that in the full release.

neutralgamer19921d 9h ago

What about the fact CDPR showed gameplay behind closed doors which wasn't real? They dusnt allow anyone to bring their phones or any tech so once media came out of that gameplay reveal CP2077 was hyped to the moon and back. CDPR didn't show console gameplay so let's not act like they were transparent when they switched from 3rd to 1st person when they lied at launch of the game

Christopher1d 9h ago

You mean rumors? You want me to comment on rumors from Bloomberg? We arguing the belief of rumors now and not news?

Here's that fake demo - https://www.youtube.com/wat...

If you've played the game, you know how much that lines up with the final product. That's what I know.

***let's not act like they were transparent when they switched from 3rd to 1st person when they lied at launch of the game***

They literally re-demoed the game with the change, so they were transparent. You're just acting like they weren't when in 2018 they literally demoed the new gameplay. That's 2 years prior to release.

I don't know what they 'lied at launch of the game' is supposed to mean.

-

This game had enough wrong with it at release that we don't need to be arguing rumors and online hatred of the gameplay changes shown in 2018.

neutralgamer19921d 9h ago

Christopher, just to clarify — I'm not trying to be overly negative or dismissive. I fully acknowledge that CD Projekt Red was transparent when they switched from third-person to first-person and even re-demoed the game to reflect that. Credit where it’s due — they did show that change publicly.

But the real issue for me is how the game launched. Despite that transparency earlier on, they deliberately withheld gameplay from the console versions and still charged full price for something that was nowhere near ready. That’s where trust was broken. The game was released in a clearly unfinished and broken state, and it took years to get it into a playable condition. That goes beyond mistakes — that’s a serious failure in leadership and consumer respect.

So when I see something like the Witcher 4 tech demo — and yes, I understand it’s Epic showcasing Unreal Engine 5 — I can’t help but approach it with caution. It’s not blind skepticism, but earned skepticism. A lot of the original developers have left CDPR, so we can’t assume this next game will automatically reach Witcher 3 levels of excellence.

I want it to be amazing. We all do. But I’m not going to fully believe the hype until independent gamers and trusted content creators — people with a reputation for honesty and not being paid off — get their hands on it and say, “Yes, this is great.” Until then, it’s just marketing.

They built up enormous goodwill after The Witcher 3 and the free DLCs — but they lost much of that with Cyberpunk's release. Even platform holders like PlayStation and Xbox, who once trusted CDPR to self-certify, don’t anymore. That alone speaks volumes.

Again, it’s not hate — it’s caution born from experience

CrimsonIdol1d 8h ago

"Despite that transparency earlier on, they deliberately withheld gameplay from the console versions"
It was a multiplatform release, and yes they botched it, but clearly consoles weren't lead development platform, PC was. They clearly were hoping that they could get everything together by launch, and this was a mistake. I think them showing this running on a PS5 is a clear indicator that they've learnt from this.

But there are plenty of reasons not to get too excited about this, and it's not hidden behind any lies, it's right there watermarked on the footage. this is a technical presentation of the Unreal 5 engine, running on the PS5 at 60fps. This is technology that may be in the Witcher, this is not the Witcher.

Lightning771d 14h ago

Because it is marketing. Epic did the flying sand girl in 2020 now this with Witcher. I still wanna see what games shows the original showing of Unreal 5? It's been 5 years exactly.

Michiel19891d 10h ago

ofc it is, no real gameplay suddenly xrays a horse to show how its muscles are moving realistically.

CrimsonIdol1d 7h ago

It literally had text telling you it wasn't gameplay.

Extermin8or3_14h ago

They were literally showing off the fact it seamlessly can transition from gameplay to ctsceme those aspects of presentation were clear cutscenes....

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90°

Giant Skull, A Studio Founded By Respawn Veterans, Is Making A D&D Game

The studio was founded in March of 2024 by Stig Asmussen, director of the Star Wars: Jedi games.

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gameinformer.com