Xbox Game Pass great for players and devs, says Phil Spencer

Stevivor -- "Phil Spencer opened X019 in London this weekend by detailing how Xbox Game Pass has benefited both players and developers alike."

[ApocalypseShadow]

Here's a few questions for the followers.

If it's so amazing, so great for developers, creates sales, the best thing to happen this Gen based on that other article, how come big, new, 3rd party game releases aren't showing up day one on it? Why isn't the latest COD on it at launch? How come EA, the biggest 3rd party publisher, not launching games on GAME Pass? How come big name companies have to be paid millions to be on it? They should be lining up to put their games on Game Pass right?

It's a crutch for old games or low selling games. Their games. But the trick is that they want monthly reoccurring revenue just like XBL. The other subscription you guys fell for that led to all of us having to pay if we want to play online.You'll be paying monthly waiting for that next game put on it. And in that time, you'll buy dlc for your favorite game. Now you'll feel you need to keep paying for a service. When extra costumes, weapons, etc, used to be part of a game that you unlocked through play. So you guys fell for dlc and micro transactions that now have become standard too.

Some of you will say, well, "it allows me to try before I buy." So now you're paying for demos. When demos used to be free. You keep calling these things options. But they end up becoming standard practice. Subscription right now is an option. How long do you think that will last until it's required, standard practice?

And while you're doing that, you'll be killing used games and new, physical retail sales. Which is exactly what Microsoft wants. All digital (they built a console to prove that) and the death of used since they don't profit from it directly. Closing your eyes to it doesn't mean it's not there to see.

[ElementX]

A lot of the games are indie games, not big budget AAA games. Indie devs usually have a handful of employees, not 100s. Marketing for a TV spot runs into the millions of dollars, as I stated in another article, Witcher 3 cost $46m to develop and they spent $35m on marketing. Game Pass devs aren't being paid millions.

Statement the second. Old or low selling games aren't necessarily bad. Do you know how many games are released every week? If you were a dev and your game got buried under everything else and you maybe got 5,000 sales, wouldn't you appreciate a fixed sum of money? Wouldn't you like more people to experience your game?

weekend, if they liked it then they could go out and buy it. People keep saying "don't listen to reviews, play it yourself". I have enough money to buy all of the games I want to play, but that's not the case for a lot of people. Sure you could have a demo, maybe an hour time limit, or just a small fraction of the whole thing, but how can you judge a game after an hour? Don't people always say "it gets better later on"? Furthermore, new games sell for maybe $5 cheaper used. Aren't games on Game Pass discounted? You save 10% for the first 90 days after release and after that you save 20%, which is more than you'll save at a game store even after 90 days.

As for your fourth statement, how much money do devs get from used game sales? None. How many indie games have physical releases? Almost none. So a) people don't buy them and the devs get no money (a lot of devs lose money and can't break even with their games), or b) they go on Game Pass, people play them, the devs get money and maybe those who play on Game Pass tell their friends it's a good game and their buddies on PS4 go and buy it or the buy it themselves. The games aren't on there forever and if it's a good game and people want to keep playing then they'll buy it.

"Phil Spencer: Gears 5 sold well for us. It sold better than Gears 4. And we feel good about it. If people want to make the choice of buying Gears, that's an option we want to give them. I'm not trying to funnel everybody who wants to play Gears into the subscription. It's about giving gamers choice. Certain players will make the decision as part of Game Pass that they'll either want to start to subscribe, or they're already a subscriber and they stay subscribed." https://www.eurogamer.net/a...

As for your third statement, growing up everybody rented games. They paid a few bucks to play a game for the

Do you think devs would sign up for Game Pass if they weren't given a fair price? They are told up front and can say no, they aren't forced to put their games on the service. People just don't seem to grasp that concept, the devs CHOOSE to.

BTW I'm not here to stick up for MS, I haven't even used my Xbox in a while, my Elite 2 controller has been sitting unopened for two weeks. I'm a PC gamer mainly, I just enjoy a decent discussion. Sure I choose to respond to some of the haters, who always seem to find something to complain about. I just try to bring up some valid points once in a while or point out hypocrisy. I'm not going to downvote your comment, so if you get some it's not me

[ElementX]

Sorry I was copy/pasting and my comment got screwed up and the time limit was reached. LOL, oh well.

As for your third statement, growing up everybody rented games. They paid a few bucks to play a game for the
weekend, if they liked it then they could go out and buy it. People keep saying "don't listen to reviews, play it yourself". I have enough money to buy all of the games I want to play, but that's not the case for a lot of people. Sure you could have a demo, maybe an hour time limit, or just a small fraction of the whole thing, but how can you judge a game after an hour? Don't people always say "it gets better later on"? Furthermore, new games sell for maybe $5 cheaper used. Aren't games on Game Pass discounted? You save 10% for the first 90 days after release and after that you save 20%, which is more than you'll save at a game store even after 90 days.

[mcstorm]

That was well put and at the end of the day haters will hate. GP is just another option for people. Do you need to buy it no but then look at it other ways.

I am a parent and when my little one is older he will want to play games and getting him a console with GP is a no brainer. Xbox s with 2 games for say £200 but I can then add over 100 games to pick from from him to play why would I not?

Or for my self I tend to play racing games and the odd shooting game but due to having a little one have less time to play games. We'll I have GP and its opened my eyes to other gore's and saved me a bunch of £ in the long run as I had a massive backlog of Xbox and switch games before I decided to sell them all and build a pc. For me made more sense to go down this rout due to less time to game. But now I don't go out annd spend £40 or more on a game to not get time to play I have a selection on my pc as well as some play anywhere games to.

GP is not for eveyone just like consoles are not or another service but it's an option and just like in the music and TV industry choices are always good to have.

[Knushwood Butt]

Do devs get paid direct for game pass?

Surely it's the publishers that get the money.

[Obscure_Observer]

@Apocalypse Shadow

Your just jealous AF because you know Gamepass is awesome and Sony has no ways to provide you day one releases on PS Now while developers are not kin to support PS Now as they´re doing for Gamepass.

Square has been suporting Gamepass for some time, now they´ll support it even more with Sega joining as well.

Microsoft has multiple venues to make money to help fund big AAA games! Microsoft makes enough money out of their competitors with Minecraft! The Outer Worlds is 2nd most popular game on PS Store while Death Stranding is 4th! If Microsoft wants to make more money out of Sony userbase, they just need to announce The Outer Worlds 2 for the PS5, not goin to happen though.

[StormLegend]

No one on PS wants GP. I don't see people running out to buy xbox 1 consoles for it. I like to support companies and see them break milestones. Making a good game should be awarded.

[Traecy]

Jealous AF???.... LMAO!!!

[The Wood]

What a difference it made this gen huh. Sony aren't in a desperate situation. Ps guys have supported full price games like GOW more than Gears 5.......currently around the 24th played games on GP which is kinda low for a flagship title plus MS are kinda coy with their numbers so I'd hazard a guess and say GOW made more for Sony than Gears 5 ever will for MS..... GP is great consumers but its not a the game changer like some have been professing. Maybe just maybe some gamers prefer more new quality titles than day one sub par ones. Maybe the larger 3rd party devs wont put their flagships on GP day one for a reason.... I agree with the notion that smaller devs benefit much more than larger devs. The exposure GP has given smaller devs shouldn't be understated or underestimated.

[leejohnson222]

I can't catch my breath !!!

[Abnor_Mal]

Funny enough I agree with your last paragraph.

When I said this before when the game was announced and up to when it released I got disagreed like crazy. MS is making money off of PS gamers
so that they can fund their next game. Then make it exclusive shutting out the people that generated much of the sales for The Outer Worlds.

When that day happens I will laugh my ass off at all the gullible people that got roped in on PS4 when they no doubt start to cry in comment sections how unfair MS is to deny them the sequel. Sheep.

Good job MS.

[The Wood]

'When that day happens I will laugh my ass off at all the gullible people that got roped in on PS4 when they no doubt start to cry in comment sections how unfair MS is to deny them the sequel. Sheep.'

Like MS thinks PS gamers will buy an xbox just for the sequel.....It'll be MS and the devs that lose out. I dont think ms wanna take that chance... maybe timed.

[Teflon02]

MS gives away gamepass for a dollar for months every year for a reason

[Obscure_Observer]

@StormLegend

"I like to support companies and see them break milestones. Making a good game should be awarded."

Keep repeating this to yourself and maybe you´ll eventually believe it! Forgive me, but I doubt that you bought every single first party game from Sony this generation to help developers, so spare me from self-entitled BS. I´m a gamer so i care for my money first!

If Microsoft is making money or not out of Gamepass, is not my place to complain! I want more! I don´t pity a trillion dollar companyI want everything they can throw at me, so i can decide if I want to keep the said game (purchase) or not!

[TheSaint]

Yet PLayStation still won this gen by a landslide, someone definitley is jealous.

[rob-GP]

Curious - where did you read that Outer worlds is the 2nd most popular game over DS? If you mean sales, it's been out longer...

[FanboySpotter]

Apocalypse just give up. You're the same person that just yesterday said games failing to sell go to gamepass but danced around outer worlds being on gamepass. It's obvious to everyone that you're trying too hard to downplay gamepass, is it really hurting your feelings that badly? It doesn't help that the pic on your account has the psvr in it you're already showing hardcore bias. "How come ea not putting games on gamepass huh?!" You're bothered by gamepass so much you forgot EA access was a thing are you ok? Lol no one said ALL GAMES EVER will launch on gamepass. Let's see if you don't dance around outer worlds this time(2nd top paid on xbox next to modernwarfare being #1)

[leejohnson222]

Pahhhhhh hahaha oh priceless

[ApocalypseShadow]

Where did the Outer Worlds sell most? Do you have any numbers on that? Private Division and Microsoft haven't provided any.

I'm not jealous of services. I don't even use Sony's. I'm not paying for Plus. Why would a subscription like Game Pass be something I want or the game industry needs? Another payment? On top of another payment?

But you seem to have ignored paying for online becoming standard. Micro transactions and dlc becoming standard from the the very first horse armor sale. Demos used to be something. Now you pay to try games. And now we're at subscription services. I don't care if it's Sony, Nintendo, Google, Apple or Microsoft.

An Avatar picture has nothing to do with it when the facts are presented. Nor am I scared to present them and get disagrees.

When subscriptions become standard practice, what are you guys going to say then when someone told you in the past to be careful? Their actions keeps dragging us into it becoming standard practice.

What are you going to say when it becomes a requirement? Are you going to complain then? Are you going to say you wish things were like before? It'll be too late then. Subscriptions will be standard.

[StarLink]

Glad the success of Xbox Game Pass has you constantly triggered and downplaying BotMK1. Keep up that fight lets see how far you get.

[Atom666]

Uh huh...You mean something like Origin Premiere?

Anyway, you understand how this works, right? These services are good for devs BECAUSE devs get money to put their games on the service. We pay Sony and MS for the sub, they pay the dev, we play the games. It seems to have a positive ripple effect on sales thereafter, but primarily it's good because it's guaranteed income.

Most games get 90% of their revenue in the first few months. Many games introduce MTs and DLC to extend that, but that's been the case long before subscriptions. Why do you think Sony would add a game like MLB to PS+? Initial sales are over, let's promote our recurring revenue source, Plus, by offering our flagship sports title. Hey look, we're running a special on stubs!

The one thing you got right is the correlation between subs and used games. Inside secret, none of these companies, including Sony, MS, Nintendo, etc., like the used game market.

Gamestop appreciates your years of patronage, but if you want to claim that subs are damaging the industry, you better not be a supporter of used games.

Devs get nothing from used sales. Pubs get nothing. That's just as responsible for the introduction of MTs, DLC, GaaS, arthritis, Justin Beiber, or whatever other evils you want to blame on MS.

If you purchase used games or rent games, you're just as responsible for the doom you're predicting.

Open your own eyes. Gaming has never been bigger or better. Regardless, all of this whining is futile. Sony and MS know there's success to be had with these services, and they're not backing down.

[timotim]

Soooooooooooooooo many holes in your argument, I dont even know where to start!

Millions of people would say Netflix is great...which is why they continue to sub to it. Does that mean Netflix gets EVERY blockbuster on day one???

Old games??? Rage 2, Remnant: From the Ashes, The Talos Principles, Age of Wonders: Planetfall, Tracks, Afterparty, The Outer Worlds, MINT, Lonely Mountains Downhill, Gears 5...XGP has tons of #DayOnes! Now PS Now on the other hand is comprised almost entirely of older games.

"Some of you will say, well, "it allows me to try before I buy." So now you're paying for demos."

😄😂 Gamepass isn't try before you buy...its play the whole damn game haha!!! These aren't demos, they are full games! Yes, the option is still there if you want to buy (which you even get a discount on top of that!) for the game you know you'll want to own, but the vast majority of games MOST GAMERS dont care for once they have beaten it a few times. This is why XGP is so cool...it allows gamers to constantly get a steady stream of games for a low monthly cost.

"And while you're doing that, you'll be killing used games and new, physical retail sales."

Ah...the latest cooked up scheme by those invested in the console wars...the good old, its not helping devs nonsense. Sounds more like console war fodder to me. You understand that devs want support and financial security right...yet when a game goes on XGP, Microsoft PAYS these devs and publishers! These pubs/devs get support from anyone who is a subscriber! We subscribers are supporting them! You guys sound like fools for saying otherwise. Gears 5 is being supported RIGHT NOW on XGP. The devs of the game is getting paid by the Microsoft themselves and they see even more money from sales on top of that. What is the problem?

"All digital (they built a console to prove that) and the death of used since they don't profit from it directly. Closing your eyes to it doesn't mean it's not there to see."

I got news for you...games are going digital just like every other industry! Physical games will still be sold for those that want it. Why are getting mad at the way others spend their dollars???

[ApocalypseShadow]

Netflix borrows money and is in debt. But continues to borrow money to stay on top.

It now is losing properties like with Disney and as more subscriptions pop up from other companies who own that content and take it off of Netflix, what will you say then?

And where content used to be all in a few places, they'll end up all over the place. And if you want to see it, you'll end up paying more to see them all.

Who's mad? Gamers choices led to paying for online. Gamers choices led to micro transactions. Gamers choices led to loot boxes. Gamers choices are leading to a grip of subscription services.

I don't think I'm the one who's mad. My sanity is clearly in check. Did you want always online too? Even for single player games? 24 check in? If so, you might want to check and see if you're mad.

[timotim]

😏 except we are talking about what Netflix means to the CONSUMER, not the company...you just tried to deflect the conversation to fit your agenda. Netflix and GP are NOT the same model dude, to even attempt to act as if they're the same is foolish. Just a quick example...Netflix doesn't sell titles to purchase at a discounted price...GP does! Netflix doesn't have add ons and extra pieces of content that the user can engage with and purchase...GP does! How much money Netflix is borrowing is irrelevant here...Microsoft uses GP as an ADDED feature, not the sole feature like Netflix does.

Yes, Disney is shafting Netflix (even though I can still go on their and watch their movies), however, because Microsoft is still SELLING games, it means they wont see the same situation as Netflix. Those games will still be avalible for the platform even if they aren't avalible for GP, so the option to play any mainstream title will still be there.

And you are incorrect...content will actually end up EVERYWHERE which is the point haha. Having access to your content regardless of where you are or what platform or device youre on. If I want to play The Outer Worlds on a PS4, PC and Switch today, I would need to buy 3 separate versions of the game which do not share progress...however, with xCloud and GP, I can buy/install it ONCE and play it on a number of devices and platforms. $60x3 or $60 and 3 devices???

And yes you are getting mad because you are objecting to a service that is already successful. You are trying to deter people from using these services...you even stuck up for used games sells as an alternative which blew my mind considering all the talk of supporting devs from you. You are clearly taking a defensive stance against GP...that makes you mad haha.

[bouzebbal]

That's obviously pure PR, but it's still a decent service I wanna be member of..
Question: can I have access to all games without ultimate subscription??

[Ripsta7th]

see what you guys are missing is that MS pays developers before hand. so if their game is succesful or not doesnt matter(money wise). theyget payed up front
and since like u guys said that PS has double the fanbase
they make money on ps4 sales + the money MS alredeady checked them for being on gamepass so i see it as a win for developers and most likely they do too

[rainslacker]

And as time goes on, lets say Game Pass, or other subscription models become the norm. Then, it does what some people say, and it devalues games, as there isn't as much demand for them at regular retail prices. Over time, those devs making bank on some platforms, suddenly aren't making as much on those platforms, and are at the mercy of these sub services paying for them so they can make money. If they don't get picked up for a sub service, then they lower the cost to put them on a service, just to break even, so, the sub service wins, the consumer wins, the devs struggle. As they struggle, their next project doesn't get as much funding, because they need to make sure that they can make money the next time. Then it spirals to the point where the content coming is not as good, and people end up wondering where all the good games are, as you see only a few stand out titles being used to show off the services as being better than they really are.

This is probably an extreme scenario, and will take a long time to actually come to that point, and there are a lot of things which could disrupt this scenario if it were to really go that far, but ultimately, what do people reasonably expect these services to offer in terms of high quality content over the long term.

It baffles me that after the past gen, and this gen, as publishers push more and more to screw over the consumer, and push their glorious future on us and preach that it's what everyone wants, despite there being ample evidence there is a big audience for the traditional, that people would have any kind of trust for the game industry to do this kind of service as if they are truly doing it because they have our best interest in mind. Sometimes, you just have to look at what the game industry actually is, and I think people like to stick their fingers in their ears going, "lalalala" in order to support their own console war preference bias, or talk about how it's so great for the consumer. The truth is, the consumer can't look past their own short term interests, and the scenario we're watching play out now should be plainly obvious to anyone who isn't a moron.

[TheColbertinator]

@Apocalypse

I'm not answering your stupid questions

[TK-66]

So the entire service is a failure because eit doesnt get the HUGEST BIGGEST GAMES OF THE YEAR at launch? Do you only play those games, or are you deliberately ignoring the masterpieces like Ori and Hollow Knight available on the service? Is PS Now a failure because it almost never gets any games that are less than a year old? Getting a new game maybe 3-6 months after launch on XGP is a damn good deal. The service has roughly 30 games planned to launch day 1 on XGP, but because they're not Call of Duty it's a negative apparantly, lol.

Also, stop trying to act morally superior. You already had a mental breakdown in my PM's when I explained you were being duped for years for buying PS+, and when you cancel your library of "free games" disappears. Have you evolved on your position, and now condemn all subscription services that remove your library once you cancel? No? Then stop being a hypocrite.

"Some of you will say, well, "it allows me to try before I buy." So now you're paying for demos"

No, you're paying to access the full game. If you're convinced it's worth your money at the end of the month then you can buy it at a discounted rate. It's not a demo if you can actually play the full game.

"And while you're doing that, you'll be killing used games and new, physical retail sales."

Digital didn't kill the physical market; online passes didn't kill the used market; rental services are definitely not going to kill them either. You have no evidence for this assertion, and are just fear mongering. If you had evidence of XGP reducing sales then PS+ would've slowly destroyed game sales a decade ago, but it didn't, so your prediction has zero backing.

[ApocalypseShadow]

I didn't say it's a failure. It doesn't support big games because it doesn't make sense to put them there if you want to sell games. Big game publishers aren't stupid. They want to make money.

It might help smaller ones get noticed. But that becomes a crutch because then, they'll have to stay there. Because, why would any gamer buy their games full price when you can play them in a cheap service?

Their games just became devalued.

[King_Noctis]

“ how come big, new, 3rd party game releases aren't showing up day one on it? Why isn't the latest COD on it at launch? How come EA, the biggest 3rd party publisher, not launching games on GAME Pass?”

Tell me you are kidding with this statement? No, seriously. Why do you expect every new games from every devs in the world to appear in Gamepass, which itself cost only $9.99 (or as some of you always says, $1) per month? Do every new movies and tv show to come to Netflix?

I have seen alot of delusional comments on this site. This one is highly ranked among those.

[The Wood]

I think you're missing a point. I too notice that not all devs/publishers will allow their games on a service day one no matter the up front payment. When publishers/devs know their games worth they will probably hold of on day one inclusions to maximise revenue. Like I said before I think GOW made more money than Gears 5 ever will. Sony will more likely put their games like GOW on psnow when its sales stagnate. That could be 8 months, a year, who knows but definitely quicker than how they've been. Maximum profit cannot come from GP's model of day one releases compared to a stagnated one especially when you have 1/2$£ sales for a year.

[King_Noctis]

*duplicated

[The Wood]

lol... calm down on the keyboard King lol

[King_Noctis]

*duplicated

[StarLink]

Here is a question for you...

Why do you care and why are you so triggered by it? And dont say you arent triggered because you are on every Xbox Game Pass article you can get your hands on and there you are writing long butthurt paragraphs downplaying the service.

Xbox Game Pass is one of the best gaming subscription models out there. Great price, a great and large selection of games with many bonuses. This service is nothing but great for the consumer and no ammount of your nonsensical drivel is going to change that.

[Traecy]

Ok.

[Ratchet75]

Game pass is the main reason i own an xbox onex. The last game i bought on xbox one was gears4. And since i'm also a Psnow subscriber i can fairly say GP has the best value for money.
Keep up the good work Phil .

[dekke]

PC is main reason i dont own a xbox..even i just upped comp back to almost same which i had before tho slightly better...i visited MS store and no theres nothing i want to play :/

[xX1NORM1Xx]

I'm glad it's good for everyone involved but I'm sad that everyone will have their own in the next year or so EA access is getting there and uplay premium or whatever their shit is called already does that.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony turns PlayStation now into a game pass like service next gen and steam, gog or gmg start one.

It's gonna be Netflix all over again and all of them are gonna suffer because of exclusives...

[timotim]

Gamers will vote with their wallets in the end. I see a lot of them falling off in a year or two. The option will always be there to purchase as usual though, so nothing to worry about.

[ApocalypseShadow]

These guys don't care. It's immediate gratification for them. Never mind what's going to happen after. It'll be too late to correct.

Some still say we should be playing online for free. But it's too late now. Their buying decisions have locked us in with no choice. Either you pay, or you can't play your favorite games online with friends.

[rainslacker]

Did phil really say that? Wow. Must be true then. I mean, why would the head of xbox say that if it weren't true?

[Knushwood Butt]

And surely 'devs' don't see a penny. Any revenue goes to the publisher.

Only exception would be when both are the same entity.

[rainslacker]

Depends on the contract with the dev. There are many ways they can be set up where the dev would continue to see revenue through the publishers efforts. A dev that has a 3rd party publisher is probably more likely to get money than an in house dev, whose bonus payouts have probably expired.

[HighPlayer28]

One of their best innovations this gen.

[Atticus_finch]

Except Sony has been doing it for years now.

[HighPlayer28]

Sony has done nothing like XGP what are you talking about. They never put their 1st party exclusives on PS Plus or PS Now day and date like Microsoft is doing with their sub model. And Sony finally created a better price for ps now put in their new exclusives and brought in the download feature thanks to competition. Sadly their ps now streaming still sucks for being 720p resolution.

[Thundercat77]

Game pass is a good solution when your platform has low software sales.

You can be dead sure that if Xbox had high software sales as Sony and Nintendo, they wouldn't have implemented Game Pass.

[Atticus_finch]

Yep.

[Atticus_finch]

Phil would never lie to us again...