Xbox Game Pass users are playing 40% more games -- including outside Game Pass

ID@Xbox's Agostino Simonetta shares key learnings from Microsoft's subscription program

[Christopher]

I think it just means that people who consume a lot of games are more likely to invest in Game Pass in general. They were already playing 40% more games before Game Pass, now they're still doing it. Not that meaningful of a statistic other than to say people who play a lot of games find a way to pay less to continue to play a lot of games.

[gangsta_red]

Not really understanding how consumers were already playing 40% more games before Game Pass.

Unless they were actually paying to play the same amount of games they are now playing through the GP service.

For me personally, I'm definitely playing a lot more games than I did before hand.

[Christopher]

Those consumers who are more likely to get into GamePass were paying 40% more than the average.

It's not "all consumers" but it's in comparison to the average.

So, If Game Pass users are playing more games in Game Pass and outside, it's more than likely that they were always playing more than the average at the same rate before Game Pass. It's not "consumers" playing more, it's the subset that use Game Pass play more than on average.

And, gangsta, you definitely play more games than the average user. Before and after Game Pass. The average gamer doesn't play as much as people think. Let alone as many games.

[darthv72]

I have not signed up for GP just yet. I almost did but my Live sub is up for renewal in November so I may take advantage of the deals around that time.

In the mean time though, I was accepted to the xCloud beta and I got to play Gears 5 last night using my Galaxy S6 and it was rather impressive. I had a few instances of my wifi being taxed but otherwise it worked. I had not played Gear 5 prior but it is on the beta as is Halo 5, Killer instinct (I have those) and Sea of Thieves. That one i'm going to try next.

If it werent for the beta, I prob would have joined GP recently, but now I dont have to in order to play SoT and Gears 5. Gears is one I'm planning on getting anyways though (steelbook edition) but just hadn't gotten to it.

[QuackShot]

@Christopher

"Those consumers who are more likely to get into GamePass were paying 40% more than the average"

Paying or playing?

[chiefJohn117]

Lol that makes zero sense. My doctor said drink more water. I been drink 40% more since. Nope I was already drinking 40% more before the doctor told me 😆.

[Christopher]

I'm going to assume you mean it makes zero sense?

So, if I have to spell it out, here we go.

Their statement: "GAME PASS USERS are playing 40% MORE GAMES including outside Game Pass"

This statistic is comparing overall gamers with Game Pass Users.

Game Pass Users are a subset of overall gamers.

There are millions more users than there are Game Pass Users.

So, let's say 10 people represent all gamers.

Aaron - Plays 1 game a month
Brienne - Plays 2 games a month
Chad - Plays 3 games a month
Derrick - Plays 4 games a month
Evelyn - Plays 5 games a month
Frank - Plays 6 games a month
Gerard - Plays 7 games a month
Hilda - Plays 8 games a month
Irene - Plays 9 games a month
Joel - Plays 10 games a month

Average games they play a month: 5.5 games per month

Now, let's say 20% of those gamers sign up for Game Pass.

What you think is happening:

Aaron and Brienne sign up. Aaron and Brienne are now playing 7.7 games per month (40% more than the gamer set of 5.5 games per month). They essentially went from the lowest tier to the upper tier, even though the typical reasons they don't play many games is tied to time and not finances, or even sole interest in a few games (such as F2P Battle Royale games).

What is more than likely happening:

Irene and Evelyn sign up. Their average is 7.7 together now, but they already come from having an average number of games equal to 7 games per month. They increase this to 0.7 more games per month. Both already played a ton of games, but because one played so many it brought the average up when you put just them in a subset and then compare it to overall gamers.

---

If you don't understand it now, then you just won't. But people seem to ignore that the subset of Game Pass Users are being compared against the main set of gamers, it is not saying they play 40% more games now but that the average of that subset is higher than the average of the entirety of the set.

Admittedly these figures are way more complicated and more diverse, but I hope you at least understand the statistics of it being represented. There is no direct correlation unless you account for how much they played games individually prior to Game Pass.

To put it in terms of your really poor "water drinking example" your doctor would never tell you to drink "40% more water" without knowing how much you drank before. They would say, instead, to drink 8 cups of water a day. If you told them you already drink that much, they wouldn't suddenly tell you to drink 40% more. Nor would they make any calculations based on percentages without knowing the definitive number before hand. But we don't know that definitive baseline number beforehand, we only get a percentage from Microsoft. Percentages based on subsets are rarely truly indicative of what they're trying to sell, but people just don't understand it.

[CoinOrc]

It only makes zero sense if you don’t understand basic logic and statistics.

[RpgSama]

As always, MS trying to play with the way they interpret the numbers to make it fit their narrative, it's not that the type of people that play 40% more games also have Gamepass, is that the people that have Gamepass plays 40% more games.

[FanboysKiller]

There is just a few selected titles that don't age with time ,ms just plays it right, most gamers move on to newer games after they beat the older ones, that's just a fact ,on regards of supporting these games ,they can make profit from services, sales isn't just the only way anymore.

[Atom666]

Aren't they referring to this though: "Well, they have a lot of free games to play -- but actually they're way more engaged outside the subscription. They go out to stores and buy more games than they did before they joined."

I think it's referring to engaging your more involved gamer, like you said. But it's specifically talking about a gamer who, through MS's own monitoring, is seen to be playing 40% more than before through GP games and retail.

It kind of describes me. Prior to 2018, my Xb wasn't really my primary console. With the X and GP, things shifted last year and I'm playing more on it overall.

[Kribwalker]

It’s stating that people that have subscribed to gamepass are playing 40% more games then they were playing before subscribing to gamepass, not that gamepass people play 40% more then those that aren’t.

Also subscribers are playing 30% more genres then they played before they subbed. That myself i have found to be true. I’m trying tonnes of games and genres i never would have without something like gamepass

[QuackShot]

@Christopher

***"They were already playing 40% more games before Game Pass, now they're still doing it"***

Nothing in the article supports this statement.

The very first paragraph of the article:

"Subscribers to Xbox Game Pass are buying more titles and trying a wider variety of genres than they did before joining."

Agostino Simonetta also shared this

"subscribers are playing 40% more games -- including titles outside the Game Pass catalogue"

The article goes on to say...

"People that join the subscription are way more engaged," said Simonetta. "Well, they have a lot of free games to play -- but actually they're way more engaged outside the subscription. They go out to stores and buy more games than they did before they joined."

The article also states that Gamepass subscribers are playing 30% more genres than they did before joining the service and that games featured on GP are seeing an average 6x increase in usage across the board.
In addition to this and another key takeaway is that games featured on GP are seeing increased sales even outside the Xbox ecosystem, indicating that games included with GP are driving sales on other platforms too.

"the Afterparty team the other day said after seeing their game go on Game Pass day and date, suddenly they were seeing a lot of sales on other platforms. No More Robots said when Descenders went into Game Pass from Xbox Game Preview, they saw a positive impact on other platforms."

Not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that Gamepass subscribers were playing 0% more games than they did prior to joining, as that is essentially what you have stated in your comment above.

[Christopher]

It's based on comparing averages.

It's misleading and inaccurate.

That's why I'm saying what I'm saying.

They do this on purpose. So do others. It's false equivalence essentially and it's not at all accurate.

[QuackShot]

@Christopher

I understand the theory behind false equivalence, I know it exists and I know how it can be used.

My issue is that although false equivalence could be at play in the reporting of this data, it is simply speculation on your part when you state that it is. There is nothing within the data presented in the article that supports what you have written. Further to this, looking at the data referenced in the article there is compelling evidence to suggest that not only is the above statement speculative it may also be incorrect.

I think it is entirely reasonable to assume that someone that suddenly has access to an additonal 150 titles via GP would play 40% more games and 30% more genres than they had done previously, I am not making a statement on this because that would also be speculation.

Regardless, it is still purely speculative when you state a 0% increase in games being played because you are assuming false equivalence.

[Christopher]

***Further to this, looking at the data referenced in the article there is compelling evidence to suggest that not only is the above statement speculative it may also be incorrect.***

There is no data presented... Just statements based on their interpretation of the data.

***Regardless, it is still purely speculative when you state a 0% increase in games being played because you are assuming false equivalence.***

I never said that. In fact, in my example I showed an increase, just not the 40% amount.

[NeoGamer232]

Where in the article did they say the gamers in game pass played more games before?

From the article:

"People that join the subscription are way more engaged," said Simonetta. "Well, they have a lot of free games to play -- but actually they're way more engaged outside the subscription. They go out to stores and buy more games than they did before they joined."

[Christopher]

Title....

[NeoGamer232]

The gamers in gamepass are playing 40% more games then they did before subscribing to gamepass and they are purchasing more games then they did before buying gamepass. They also said that gamers in gamepass are also playing 30% more genres when they subscribe to gamepass.

[UnholyLight]

Way to read the article @Christopher

[Christopher]

Loving it. I've said what I needed to say, but people really are easily sold by twisting statistics to suit an outcome. I mean, I didn't even mention how much they play of these supposed more games (inferred by assuming people suddenly had more time to play games when school just started), how much focus is still on latest releases, and the like (inferred by them still spending money outside of Game Pass at a supposedly higher rate).

I'm glad people are happy with Game Pass, though. I mean, I'm getting The Outer Worlds for just having an XBL sub. But, don't just accept figures being thrown at you. Read between the lines. You can still believe in a product while doing that. I know I do.

[Grievous]

You're being way too smart for the average visitor here.

[Kornholic]

False. I'd never go from paying once for a game to paying x amount of money in perpetuity to play a game.

[Zeref]

That makes no sense...

[Spurg]

Gamepass is really suitable for people who can't really afford games. If gamepass came out when I was a teen I would have been doomed for sure.

[ThinkThink]

I don't think it's for people who can't afford games. That's like saying Netflix is for people who can't afford movies. It's more of a convenience thing, at least for me.

[xTonyMontana]

Netflix sort of is, I mean I can afford to buy movies but it would be fairly reckless for those of us with families to provide for to go out and buy every single movie we have an interest in watching and seeing as rental places like Blockbusters are gone and we've lost our cheap movie night solutions. This is especially true of TV shows.

I don't really need Gamepass nor have the time with existing games to get enough value from it but I'd have loved something like this when I was a young teenager, I probably spent nearly the same amount each month back on game rentals as I couldn't afford to buy new releases.

[UnholyLight]

Well @ThinkThink. Im a college kid that can't afford to buy many games anymore like I could when I was younger. So yes, Gamepass really does help out. I've saved 100's on games I was going to buy (Forza, Gears, Just Cause 4), and then on top of that I was able to try a couple $100's worth of games that new I could not afford to just buy and hope they were good enough and worth the very little amount of money I have to spend on games today. So yeeah, gamepass kinda IS for people that wanna save long run and can't afford all the games...especially in a world where the average price in CAD for a new game is like $89-99 not including if you wanna buy the season pass etc. I pass over the sports games for this reason they are just too much money.

[Rude-ro]

You do realize this statistic is for those that signed up for a dollar right?
And 100% they are going to try and find any game that they like.
Could it boost of a use of game that may have not before gamepass? Yes...
But any demo could do and has done that as well.
Regardless.. does it boost sales of a game?
Does it get great support from consumers that could make a game grow?
How well does a game on gamepass support microtransactions and dlc?
What is that like for a consumer who only has limited time to access certain games? Ie those purchases fall off unless they then buy the game.
If someone comes across said game that they do like, they would most likely purchase those games and no longer use gamepass no?

See, the % Kong’s, Microsoft, do things to get said articles to spin their direction.

If I were to sign up, 100% games would be tried... but what is the life and is it worth the monthly fee for what is basically a paid for demo?
Microsoft could do a hell of a lot more for developers by supporting free demos and let gamers choose and give data to Microsoft for what gamers are looking for.
Ie info for new ips.

To this point.. Microsoft’s own output does not justify a monthly fee.
In the life of this console gen, and even into last gen... Microsoft has made more consoles than new AAA ips.

[UnholyLight]

@Rude-ro...I had the same thoughts before I signed up when it came to dlc and micro on gamepass but guess what? I got Forza Horizon 4 and all the dlc and the new Gears platinum edition and guess how much that cost me? Only the $30 for the season pass and VIP content from Forza Horizon 4 versus $240 for both games at full pop + buying the season content for each. So yeah, the monthly fee easily offset this not to mention I have about 10 games from gamepass that I was able to play including the 2 I just mentioned without having to shell out a dime for the base game itself.

Gamepass is a life saver when you're a part time worker on a more than full time college workload.

[DaDrunkenJester]

I can afford games, but why wouldn't I want to save money?

[ThinkThink]

Same here and I agree that gamepass offers really good value. I just don't think it's just for people who can't afford games.

[ABizzel1]

That's not the case at all. It's simply an unrivaled value for a library of games. It lets you play games you might have been interested in but had no plans on buying, or experience games you might not have ever thought of trying, but since it's free there's no cost of entry.

GamePass is simply one of the best values in gaming right now, and it's a must-have IMO for anyone with an XBO. It doesn't make sense to buy 2 or 3 Xbox exclusives when you can simply buy GamePass and cover all their exclusives plus access to that library.

[mandingo]

I mean when good games are coming to GP just a few months down the line ie: tomb raider metro exodus devil may cry. It's not about not being able to afford it. It's really about being smart and waiting to get it for a dollar unless its a must have game. That's a win.

[rainslacker]

Sounds like a great way to grow sales that will benefit the industry as a whole.

/s

[mandingo]

I mean you are right but it's hard to say no to that

[NeoGamer232]

I buy a lot of games... And I can afford a lot of games.

But I usually wait for them to be heavily discounted. Now-a-days a game to get the full content is about $90-150 (All DLC, map packs, etc). The "complete" editions usually come out a year after release. Then they start discounting the complete edition about 6 months later.

GamePass allows me to play games that I will probably buy later (DMC5, Gears 5, Prey, etc.) much earlier then I would've without GamePass. I like to own my games, but at the same time I like to save money on my purchasing. GamePass is giving me the best of both worlds. I am saving (Have ultimate and it is $15 / month for XBL Gold, GamePass PC, and GamePass XB Console)... Frankly, I can't keep up to the games now.

[Latex74]

I dont agree most i know can more than afford the games my self included the problems im having is playing all the great games i just dont have the time lol lol

[gangsta_red]

Gamers playing more games. Sounds like a good thing to me.

Game Pass has definitely opened up a lot more games for me. Especially the smaller indie titles like Mutant Year Zero, Ruiner, Bloodstained and Dead Cells. I don't think I would have ever found the time to buy and play most of those games.

Hopefully MS can continue this great service and provide a lot more incentive for more developers to jump on board. Gamers and my wallet would thank them.

[Christopher]

You're not understanding the statistics.

The statistics only represent data specific to those who use Game Pass, not if gamers are actually playing more games.

All this is saying is that those who have Game Pass play more than the average gamer. It doesn't mean they weren't playing at that level before Game Pass.

Before Game Pass: Average gamer plays 5 hours a week, 5 games a year.

After Game Pass: Average Game Pass gamer plays 10 hours a week, 10 games a year.

Those aren't comparable as you don't know if the subset of Game Pass gamers is reflective of before Game Pass. And, I posit, that those who subscribe to a netflix-like game service are more likely to be invested in gaming more, not less. Meaning those gamers are not representative of the same average as before, but actually people who used to drive the average up while there were way more people who dragged it down.

[ElementX]

MS and Sony have your statistics as soon as you create an account. They can go back and see how many hours you spent gaming for whatever time frame they want. Their database software has a dedicated filter for Game Pass subscribers to see the time spent before and after, you can be sure of that.

[rainslacker]

@element

I think chris is saying that the average game pass player plays 40% more games than the average gamer as a whole.

Hes saying that people arent playing 40% more games now that they have game pass.

At least if I understand him correctly.

If I'm right, hes implying that the people signing up for game pass are more prone to play more games regardless of if they had game pass or not.

The validity of his statements I won't wager a guess on, because statistics from MS require a doctorate level education to decipher

[QuackShot]

@rainslacker

"I think chris is saying that the average game pass player plays 40% more games than the average gamer as a whole, Hes saying that people arent playing 40% more games now that they have game pass"

They are playing 40% more games at a highly reduced price.

[Christopher]

***They are playing 40% more games at a highly reduced cost.***

That's not necessarily true either. It's probable, but not necessarily true.

[Atom666]

As I commented before, they are actually looking at gamers' habits before and after they've subbed to GP. They do know all of our gaming habits before GP. It's the only way these numbers could be compiled.

Maybe people don't realize that they're being tracked this much? I don't know where the confusion comes from, but what they're looking at is consumer behaviors before and after they've subbed. They're not comparing average users vs. average gp user.

People are really over thinking this.

[EDKICK]

@Christopher

That's certainly an element of it. But even I as someone who gamed a ton before getting Gamepass I'm playing way more games and games I never would have played otherwise and everyone I've talked to who has Gamepass says the same.

Both what you're saying and what MS is saying can be true.

[ApocalypseShadow]

How did it open up more games to you? Those games were already there and ready to be purchased backed by YouTube previews, trailers, Twitch plays and reviews. Unless you weren't interested in buying them and were waiting for something like this to save money like some other service I can't mention you use.

GameIndustryBiz is just pushing themselves as the leader in getting Indie developers and investors together with their summits. When they should be pushing to help them independently self publish without taking the subscription handout that only helps Microsoft. Where are the numbers to verify gamers are playing more? 40% more than what original number? I don't see numbers presented.

**They go out to stores and buy more games than they did before they joined**

Where are the numbers to verify this? If most of these games are digitally published, how are gamers going out to buy more at retail when there isn't a physical, retail copy? Game Pass doesn't push you to buy $60 games. Just look at Gears 5 as proof they didn't go out and buy it in droves as it is the worst selling Gears. But a lot of gamers played it on Game Pass. What did they do? Go out and buy other games instead of it? Like using that saved money to buy PS4 exclusives. Those 1st party game sales keep going up. But why would they buy anything when they can continue to wait for games to drop on the service for $1 a month or the regular $10.

No numbers to verify this increase makes the article irrelevant and a Puff Piece.

[gangsta_red]

"How did it open up more games to you?"

I would think that would be obvious, one very low price for a year and over a hundred games to choose from.

"..backed by YouTube previews, trailers, Twitch plays and reviews"

Not understanding your point, not everyone goes to youtube, Twitch or anything else to watch games or get a preview. There are games that you never heard of or seen that you could be pleasantly surprised with when trying it out with a service like Game Pass or something similar.

One example, Vampryr, I've only seen a couple articles here about the game, but paid it no attention due to the bigger titles and triple A games that get a lot more coverage on sites, but I still decided to get it through Gamefly because it looked interesting and I had an extra game in my que to get, turned out to be one of the better games i've played this gen.

[ElementX]

**They go out to stores and buy more games than they did before they joined**

He could've misspoken and meant stores in general, that's the impression I get. I tend to analyze comments also and I have the feeling he was just speaking off the cuff at the summit. I speak frequently at AA meetings and sometimes things just come out wrong. If you look at the first part of the quote, it is obviously not a prepared statement.

"Well, they have a lot of free games to play -- but actually they're way more engaged outside the subscription. "

[ApocalypseShadow]

That Xbox guy said gamers went out and bought more games because of Game Pass.

Maybe, just maybe, new games came out during this quarter and gamers went out and spent money on these games. In the article, the guy says Game Pass increased sales of games for other platforms for developers trying to take credit. That doesn't make sense. Because I played a game for cheap on Game Pass, leads me to go and buy Indie developers games and other games on Switch and PS4. That doesn't make sense.

They even use Netflix as proof this model works. Netflix is in debt with their borrowing to stay in first place to produce content. But most of their content already made their respective channels their money back through ads on TV, Cable and Satellite. They are worth nothing to get Netflix to buy a license to stream them. That doesn't mean I'm going to watch every program on Netflix like the Xbox executive says in the article.

But I'd bet the executives are the ones making the money on Netflix and Game Pass. And not the little guys who jumped to take the handout in the short term that kills long term profits and revenue.

[jimbost79]

How

[jimbost79]

How exactly does game pass give you more time to buy and play games?
I get it can open up more games, but more time? Really

[DaDrunkenJester]

Yeah, time doesnt make so much sense in relation to GamePass. If you dont have time to play a retail bought game, you dont have time to play a GamePass downloaded game.

But honestly for me, its the ease of use and convenience. If I suddenly find myself with a couple hours of free time because both kids are napping. I can hop on GamePass and download and play DMC5. If I dont buy digital games I'd have to go to the store. But I have a feeling people who sub to GP already buy digital anyway haha

[rainslacker]

No doubt. I can't even get through my back log of games I buy. How much time are people dedicating to each of these games when playing? Are they just doing demos and that's getting added to the statistics? For me, I play about the same amount of game time each month. I can spend almost an entire month on a single game if I'm really enjoying it. Other months, if I want to work through my back log, I can play 1-3 games a week depending on how big each game is, and if it's one I decide to platinum.

[FanboySpotter]

I've been trying out games on gamepass outside of my preference and ended up liking them. My ultimate ends this November but i think I'm keeping it.

[zodiac909]

This title makes no sense.

[Sgt_Slaughter]

Can Microsoft ever give us concrete numbers instead of estimates and buzzwords? This means nothing without that.

[QuackShot]

@Sgt_Slaughter

"Can Microsoft ever give us concrete numbers instead of estimates and buzzwords?"

2019 Q4 Results

https://www.microsoft.com/e...

2018 Annual Report

https://www.microsoft.com/e...

[Sgt_Slaughter]

I should have specified Xbox instead of Microsoft because, while this did have Xbox figures (and I appreciate the links), I was referring to when they talk about Game Pass or sales for major first party games or anything related to numbers.

[kythlyn]

Xbox Game Pass is the best deal in PC gaming, if you've got a Windows 10 PC and a decent rig. For the cost of a single game spread out over a year, you get not just a lot of games and content, but a lot of GREAT games and content, including major titles on release day. The software still needs some work, but I can't complain that much when I've got Gears 5 and I'm about to get The Outer Worlds.

[kythlyn]

Just for the record, I skipped Xbox this gen, so Xbox Game Pass works for me because I can catch up on the (small number of) exclusives from M$ I care about. But I should also mention that the service gives me access to tons of top tier Indie games too... just seems like a good deal for only $5 a month, I dunno.

[chiefJohn117]

Duh!!! You get a boatload of games wouldn't be playing more?

[TheHateTheyGive]

The reason i got a base xbox one, gamepass ultimate is outstanding value.

[Gaming4Life1981]

Game pass is great and I love it but I already was and still am buying alot of games. I am playing games thru gamepass that i normally wouldn't play so that's a plus.

[timotim]

"Subscribers to Xbox Game Pass are buying more titles and trying a wider variety of genres than they did before joining."

That is why XGP is good for devs! Because while you cant guarantee that every dev/pub that participates in XGP will get the same love from every gamer, it does increase your chances of your game being played and potentially bought by those who subscribe to the service.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Increases in players on Game Pass does not increase retail sales. It lessens the chance they will go to the retail store to buy those same games they are playing for cheap. (Gears 5)

Or, other games they are hoping will drop on Game Pass in the future. Why would a gamer concerned with playing many games a month for a cheap price, go out and buy expensive $60 games?

Here's an example using the logic that Xbox guy used in the article...

"Watching Netflix increases consumers buying habits at retail for buying DVDs and Blu-ray."

If you're watching Netflix for cheap, why would you go out and buy expensive movies and television shows when you can just wait until they hit a cheap service like Netflix?

It's NOT good for developers long term. Taking the short-term check from Microsoft is going to bite these developers in the @$$ long-term unless they received a big fat check (Capcom-DMC5-19 million after it hit retail) or compensate with paid micro transactions, dlc, season passes and other GaaS nonsense.

[timotim]

Yet "Subscribers to Xbox Game Pass are BUYING more titles and TRYING a wider variety of genres than they did before joining."

The fact that devs are already happy that gamers are playing their game...XGP also gives gamers the option to purchase their games at a discounted price which is leading to gamers purchasing games only AFTER trying them, which would not have happened if they didn't play the game through XGP to begin with.

[gangsta_red]

"It's NOT good for developers long term."

I would have to think that these developers have accountants that have crunched the numbers and have seen the results more so then we have, to know that having their game on GP is not a financial risk.

With that said though I would still like to see an article about if having their game on GP is lucrative or not. (I know we had one dev that said they benefited from GP)
Because as of now all we're doing is saying "It's bad" , "it's good " with no facts to back any of this up.

[P_Bomb]

I don’t buy the “subscribers are buying more games” angle. I recently had EA Access for a month. Didn’t buy a darn thing. Why would I buy A Way Out on “sale” for $24 when I platinumed it for $5?

I’ve had Spotify for years. Haven’t bought one album in that time. I’m not the only one. Music subs have killed retail https://www.rollingstone.co...

I still go to theaters, but can’t remember the last time I bought a movie (disc or digital). As subscriptions have gone up, movie retail’s gone down https://arstechnica.com/gad...

Why should games be a different pattern? Used to cost me $10 just to rent one new release for a weekend. EA’s $5 gave me everything unlimited for a month. At these rates, I have no reason to ever buy anything from EA ever again. Two years of every game for the cost of one new game. That’s a loss. Last gen I bought every Mass Effect game twice. This gen...nothing. I’m fine with that. But will this model fund me a new Dead Space any time soon? I’m not holding my breath.

[rainslacker]

That really sounds counter intuitive to me. There's a reason that games that end up on GWG or PS+ each month end up dropping in price both new, and used at retail places that sell them. it's because people already played them. Maybe after the game goes off the service, but I grew up during the days of rentals being a thing, and no one I knew that played a game already was prone to buying that game. I can't see why that'd be different now since many games aren't designed to be played indefinitely anymore, or are designed to purposefully and artificially extend the life of that game.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but I can't really believe that the numbers are so signfiicant that it causes a measurable bump in sales due to being on game pass.

I can accept they're trying more games, and trying more genres than they normally would, because why not? They're "free" and no harm in trying them.

[timotim]

That's interesting, it sounds pretty natural to me. The more exposure you have to a variety of something, the more opportunity you give yourself to like those somethings. Remember, XGP is for those that are subscribers only...not the entire userbase. Dont confuse the two. For those that are subscribers, you are getting a dropped price for the games in XGP...WHILE THEY ARE STILL IN ITS CATALOG. However, games wont stay in its catalog forever, which means if you like the game/games that you've been trying and playing and want to continue doing so, those that are smart will purchase the games at a discounted price. And remember, you also get discounts on DLC for those games which why not purchase those if you're a completist and already got the game through XGP to get the extra achievements. Theirs a lot of layers there. If I simply use Spotify, no, I probably wont ever buy an album either because chances are the albums will be there for years to come...same with movies...if a sub to a movie rental service, I most likely will never buy a movie through that service because those movie will most likely be there for years to come. Not the case with XGP and not the case that we consume music and movies the same way we consume games.

Games are interactive...they change depending on what you do and how you tackle them. Not so for movies and music...they will be exactly the same each time you go to consume them. This, mixed with the fact that XGP ROTATES titles means that if you liked or loved a title that's wont be in XGP forever and you are still experiencing it with playthroughs, the chances are that you will purchase it before it leaves at a discount. I downloaded Ninja Gaiden Black through XGP, but its no longer avalible on the service (never owned Black, only the original which is not BC), so now I will be purchasing Black to have that Ninja Gaiden fix on my consoles moving forward.

[rainslacker]

I'm not doubting that game pass, or things like ps+ or gwg cant have an effect on someone either coming to like a series or style of game. Hell, I really dislike fps, but tried out borderlands 2 from ps+ because I like tales from the borderlands o got in a telltale bundle, and then brought the first game, and preordered bl3 because I came to love it so much.

But, I didn't go out and buy BL2 because why would I if I already had it downloaded? I might personally buy a game for collection purposes, but if it's a game I'm not that keen on playing, that'll probably be when it's pretty cheap. I know that if I had something like game pass, a lot of publishers would lose a lot of money off me. I buy about 5-10 games a month, and maybe get around to playing 2-3, and I play a game to completion for the most part. But they'd lose money because I wouldn't be that inclined to buy a game that I had already played and finished. There is no incentive on my part.

I can think of some scenarios where what MS claims may happen, but i question the veracity of the significance they imply from their unsubstantiated statistics which dont offer numbers or metrics on the matter.

I can see some buying a game that's going off the service. But ms made the claim that people were buying more games long before they started dropping games off the system yo any significant degree. Since then, most of the games dropped are mostly SP games which dont have a lot of long term replayability.

[Orionsangel]

Yeah we play, when the Xbox Beta Store isn't broken. Whoever designed the MS Store and Xbox Beta Store should be fired! STAR OVER, MS! Download errors galore!

[monkey602]

I'm playing a lot more games on Xbox since Game Pass. Games I would have otherwise bought on my PlayStation that I'm not going to spend unnecessary money on now if it's available as part of my subscription.

I also built a PC recently so I've been using Game Pass ultimate there, adding to the list of games I'm using the service for.

*slay the Spire is fucking awesome!

[Fraggle1987]

Yeah because they have given game pass away for basically free. Of course more will play at that price.

[Moe-Gunz]

I use it as a demo device. That’s really all that it does for me.

[LordJamar]

Yep it’s a good service period, games I played I would have honestly never tried if it was not for game pass unfortunately you got people in the comments playing 3d inter dimensional chess trying to flip and spin this into something negative these people truly want Xbox to fail no matter what just can’t simply say good job Microsoft I think it physically hurts them if they had to say that.

[rainslacker]

I won't try to spin it, but I don't really believe MS statistics, or MS. They have too much history in gaming and in their regular business of releasing partial data that makes things look good, but leave out a lot of relevant information which causes topics like this to have all sorts of spin, and even more assumption, leading to this idea that things are something they probably aren't.

[LordJamar]

I just know from my experience game pass is great I have played more games then I usually would and tried games I normally would not have and. It saved me money to by other things dlc and such

[rainslacker]

I actually agree that game pass is an amazing value. Particularly at a lot of the promotional pricing they've had. Even at $10/month, I think it's a good value. Its usefulness is limited for how I play games, but I have not ever said it wasnt a good value.

The value of game pass for the consumer right now doesnt negate my thoughts on MS, or prevent me from looking at what the long term effects of such a service...or services like it...will be.

[LoneGaymer]

Game pass is just the best value for the money and is profitable for developers. I love it.

[Kumakai]

And that’s why subscriptions are the future. More sustainable, more exposure, more value. Haters will hate but subscription models have taken over music, movies and tv. Just a matter of time.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Yeah then they'll take your freedom so to that f off with sub only future we'll need a balance in order to make everyone happy.

[lodossrage]

Yeah but the problem XiNatsu, is that we have a contingent of people that are making excuses for these companies taking away their freedom of ownership.

All I'm going to say is the moment gaming is subscription only is the day I find a new hobby. Reason being is yes I love gaming, but I damn sure am not a slave to it.

[gangsta_red]

They'll also steal your babies on the 12th of each month. The day gaming starts stealing babies is the day I find a new hobby.

Seriously, enough with the scare/sky is falling tactics.

I don't know how playing more games have now suddenly equaled to taking freedoms away. But please keep sitting around the camp fire exchanging stories.

[gangsta_red]

Oh no! They're controlling me!

I'm able to play and finish games and then play more!

Exactly what are they controlling? Instead of being apart of the doomsday echo chamber how about elaborating on what is going to be controlled in this fictional universe you all are afraid of.

[lodossrage]

What "scare/sky is falling tactic"?

If you're OWNERSHIP is taken away then your freedom is taken.

Being able to play more games doesn't equate to your freedoms being taken. HOWEVER being able to play more games while ONLY HAVING ACCESS TO THEM UNDER A SUBSCRIPTION MODEL is taking away your freedom.

For example, If I want to resell a physical game I purchased, I can do that. Try to do that with a subscription service. Tell me how that turns out.

Even with digital games, if I BUY it, I can play it forever. Go ahead, sit here and tell me I'll be able to play my games the same way if I stop paying into a subscription model.

So see, what you call scare tactics are what most people will see as fact.

Gaming is turning to to what it is because there are enough corporate defenders and apologists. If something like for example Google Stadia succeeds, it will be because of people like you gangsta_red.

[lodossrage]

@gangsta_red

"Exactly what are they controlling? "

As I just explained, your sense of OWNERSHIP is being controlled.

[gangsta_red]

@lodossrage

My sense of ownership?

I'm willingly subscribing to a service that provides a library of games that I a free to choose which ones to play when I want to play.

Exactly what "freedoms" are being taken away?

So let me get this straight, having access to Spotify and Netflix and being able to watch and listen to hundreds on (thousands) of music and movies is my freedom being taken away because it's under a service?

Do you even realize how ridiculous you're trying hard to sound?

"So see, what you call scare tactics are what most people will see as fact."

What facts? You keep talking about the future of gaming with the worse possible scenarios and what you think will happen and then say it's a fact. Do you even know what a fact is?

"I'll be able to play my games the same way if I stop paying into a subscription model."

So, if you stop paying for something you won't be able to use it anymore...sort of like everything in life.

Tell you what stop paying for PS+ and then see if you can play online or get more of those free games they offer. Oh no!! Sony is controlling you!

Let me ask you, if I play a game through a service finish it and move on, what difference does it make?

Keep telling from the rooftops the sky is falling, I'll be playing a ton of games while you scream.

[Profchaos]

With gamepass I start a lot of games I'd like to try and quit them after the tutorial because I got over them really quickly sorry dishonored 2

[KillBill]

Just shows that investing money into a service encourages users to make the most of their purchase. Obviously those that don't spend money into GamePass are less likely to invest money into games played. Simple marketing.

[THC CELL]

Not making 40% more money tho are they

[LordJamar]

Relieve it or not some devs especially indie ones really value recognition and exposure which game pass can give in spades that can lead to more sales

[tontontam0]

This further proves that a lot of users only plays, forza, halo and gears when gamepass is not yet available.

[BenRC01]

Not me. Haven't bought a single new game since game pass deals. Tbh anything worth owning on xbox is on game pass anyway

[Father__Merrin]

gamepass is for people who cant rush out and buy full price games and people who are not bothered about any ownership of any game. its a good service tho

[Thundercat77]

I don't trust the way Microsoft always manipulates their shallow information.

[Passerotto]

Normal.
From 0 to some.
This is the 40% total.

[franwex]

Pretty much what they wanted. Keeping people playing more and eventually to consume more, even outside the service.