Kojima Says Even Now He Doesn't Understand Death Stranding; Game Design Is Holistic for Him

Hideo Kojima eccentrically said that even now, he doesn't understand Death Stranding as it's something that has never been done before.

Kojima also explained that game design is a holistic process for him.

[ccgr]

Looks interesting

[codelyoko]

That's for sure but will it be fun to play?

[abstractel]

My biggest question mark too. Nothing in the trailers has lead me to believe that it'll be fun to play. Sure looks beautiful though.

[harmny]

If you find metal gear fun to play no doubt

[abstractel]

Metal Gear argument holds no water. The series were filled with action. MG never forced you to pee, take a nap, rock a baby etc.. I want to be wrong, I want this game to be awesome. But nothing they've shown us has me excited (except for the graphics).

[bluefox755]

I think Kojima has earned our benefit of the doubt.

[Raiden]

Any game that uses one character and have others as npc will always be beautiful, always, i look forward to what this game has to offer, but i might wait for the pc version.

[harmny]

Am I seeing n4g Sony fanboys bashing a Sony exclusive and Kojima? Now I've seen everything. Keep hating. The game is gonna be amazing

[KickSpinFilter]

His comment def gives me pause. We so called "Sony fanboys" don't care for a game if it isn't good, just cuz it's a Sony game does not give it a pass.

[Shane Kim]

If the game is bad then it's bad. Doesn't matter if it's on PS only.

[harmny]

"if the game is bad then its bad" days gone sucked and you kept shilling it day and night

[harmny]

xbox fanboy? i own a ps4 and i play microsoft games on PC. i don't own an xbox.

good try but wrong.

[formanbradley]

There are creatures posing as human beings on here who say that The Last Guardian is a masterpiece. I had to force myself to finish it, just so I felt like I got my money's worth.

[ragnalamb]

@kickspin
Days gone wasnt bad at all. I mean, it struggled with the errand boy dilemma in open world games, but even the acclaimed The Witcher 3 had that. But you are a mercenary... So thats part of your job actually.

But, story was cool, gameplay was fun, graphics were decente... You may not like it, but it wasnt bad

[joab777]

This is how he keeps us guessing. Cuz he don’t even know what the hell its all about lol! He lets us fill in the holes lol! I love it!

Love games like DS in which the community works to piece it all together as they go, never knowing what is true and what isn’t!

[milohighclub]

The thing is even if they got it right, no-one would ever know, not even kojima by the sounds of it. I have a feeling this isnt gonna be a good game.

[ilikestuff]

I’m still trying to understand metal gear.... loved playing it though, except that last one

[Chris_Wray]

I'm... not completely sure that's a good thing, the lead designer not completely understanding his own game.

I can't say it surprises me, even with MGS, Kojima was always stark-raving mad, just throwing in things for the bloody sake of it. It would take a genius the level of Hawking x Einstein x Turing just to understand half of what nonsense is said. That doesn't mean they aren't great though, and i certainly expect this to be great.

[Profchaos]

Yeah that hospital scene in mgs v was the work of shrooms 100 percent. Insane but fascinating and interesting to play

[crazyCoconuts]

Was about to say the same thing. He's gotta be on something lol

[DaDrunkenJester]

I dont think it takes a "Hawking x Einstein x Turing" to understand. That's giving him way too much credit. He is just weird and creative.

[xXxSeTTriPxXx]

Weird and creative.

Sounds like a genius to me.aren't they all?

[DaDrunkenJester]

No

[rainslacker]

I think he understands the crazy themes that he's trying to express. They tend to be pretty consistent throughout his Metal Gear games at least.

I sometimes wonder if he gets distracted trying to make everything work within those confines though.

[DaDrunkenJester]

I think that's the biggest hurdle for a lot of devs. How do we transfer these ideas into something enjoyable to play without just making it a walking sim/movie.

[GameStallion]

Agree, he struggles to make the more fantastical things work. The Horizon Zero Dawn team did that beautifully with robot dinosaurs.

[KaiPow]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Kojima tries to pitch projects like Death Stranding.

[sprinterboy]

I bet there kinda funny, like a bunch of execs looking all baffled and confused lol.
I bet when kojima leaves the room they all bunch together and go "did anybody understand that“ NO but were making it anyway haha.

[Profchaos]

I imagine he heards them into a bus and takes them into the desert and gives them some iowaska before pitching so Norman redus walking around in a space suit with unborn featuses in a capsule

[harmny]

The pitch:

Kojima enters the room

Sony: ok how much money do you want?

[TheGamez100]

Well damn...one thing I fear about the game is that it could be too confusing and overwhelming with the amount of wtfs.

[ArchangelMike]

^^This exactly is my main concern with the game. Kojima should be applauded for taking the risk and attempting to create a new genre again; I can only guess and wonder what that will be.

[TheGamez100]

Im really looking forward to the game though, it indeed has so much new ideas and originality.

[BLow]

Exactly. You can never win with bipolar gamers. They say they want something new and fresh but when that comes along they still complain. Or you can play a game with a certain boss fight and they repeat that same few phrases over and over and over again. And you pretty much do the same thing over and over again. Guess what game that is lol.......

[Livingthedream]

I think when people say they want soemthing new, they still want it to feel familiar. Just a new franchise. IMO the graphics look great, but what they've shown in terms of gameplay looks uninteresting, and I'm the type of person that enjoys games like heavy rain, Detroit become human etc. I hope the people that buy it enjoy it, as I'm sure it will be the traditional $60 price point, and nothing sucks more than shelling out retail for a bad game.

[sprinterboy]

I was thinking is this game "always online" as I think you will need to get other players in other dimensions to find stuff for you and vise versa, that's what kojima means I think with being connected.
Were all going to have to connect to save the world and if we don't then earth dies.
Its almost like a social experiment to see if we could survive a earth level event ?
Having said that I could be totally wrong lol.

[LemyAtom]

You mean an Extinction Level Event?

[CanadianTurtle]

This is something that's been plaguing the entertainment industry. A lot of artist/creators try too hard to be "mysterious" and "open for interpretation." It's almost like they're using it as an excuse for, "I have no idea what the fuck I'm creating, I'll just let the audience fill in the blanks for themselves." I honestly can't stand pretentious storytelling of any art form.

[GameStallion]

Don’t watch Birdman. As someone who liked the movie, the ending is as pretentious as they come.

[0hMyGandhi]

@BLow

It's not "bipolar gamers". People always want new things. But they also want some semblance of familiarity. It has to make sense. It has to flow.
You are thinking about it as two totally antithetical sides. Death Stranding might just be a "weird" game. There's nothing wrong with that.

It doesn't that the people who may not like something different are "just a part of the COD crowd", it's that games need to be grounded, and well-realized. Weird ones still need rules that make sense.

But weirdness for the sake of weirdness has a relatively tepid life span. His core supporters will be there, but if he hopes to actually make any money off of this game, he needs to cater to a larger audience than his base.

This isn't just some straight forward action/stealth game.
This seems to lean more towards survival horror, which by itself is a tricky genre to attain good sales numbers.

I'm with you though. I wish people were more critical of their favorite franchises rinse/repeating the same mechanics and playstyles and happily paying for extras without demanding anything "different", but when you are a company like EA or Ubisoft and you get crazy sales for Far Cry 12: Moon Takeover, why do things differently? where's the incentive? this isn't just an art form, it's a business.

We don't even know if this game will be "fun" let alone present a cohesive and coherent story.

[ArchangelMike]

I'm looking forward to Death Stranding, but i'm really hoping the plot is not an overly verbose, convoluted mess that requires reams of wiki pages to understand. I love me my MGS games, and I think MGS1 & 3 always come up tops on fan favorite lists for a number of reasons - not least because they were the easiest to follow plot-wise. MGS4 for example while gameplay was phenomenal, plot-wise it was a complete narrative mess - imho.

[isarai]

He said the samenthing about the metal gear series, so no worries here.

[isarai]

Disagree?

https://www.eurogamer.net/a...

[Blu3_Berry]

If even he doesn't know what it is anymore, than I do have my concerns. I hope the gameplay is enjoyable because so far I have no been impressed for the gameplay. The story has me super intrigued but like his past projects, I hope he doesn't go super vague into the story. Part of me wants to pick it up day 1 but the other part wants me to wait for reviews (mainly user reviews). I'm not sure what to do tbh.

[mkis007]

The beatles wrote the best music while high AF.

[harmny]

Yep. True

[rainslacker]

Some of my best ideas came to me while I was high. Too bad I couldn't make out my hand writing the next day when I wrote them down so I would remember them. I think I recall even figuring out the meaning of life, as well as how all things in the world were connected by the number 3.

[BrettAwesome]

You too are so special and interesting. One fifth of the western world gets high af regularly. None of us come up with dumb shit like that

[IRetrouk]

people do get more creative after smoking a joint or doing other more trip inducing drugs, not everyone obviously, but plenty of studies out there that shows this to be the case.

[rainslacker]

@Bret

Guess it depends on what you're getting high on. I tended to prefer the more mind altering stuff, and it wasn't on a regular basis.

[Vandamme21]

Lol how can you make a game and doesn’t understand it. That doesn’t make any sense to me.

[harmny]

Well... you are not the creator of metal gear

[Vandamme21]

And your point is?

[WickedLester]

Well that's not a good sign!

[harmny]

It is something new. That is a good sign. You know what isn't a good sign? Developers that just copy the popular game on the market. They do understand what they are doing

[BrettAwesome]

"You see that shit right there, boy? That's called art. And you WILL appreciate it, god dammit!!"

[Ratchet75]

Death stranding will definitely be a polarizing game for years to come.
And that's a good thing.

[CanadianTurtle]

This is worrisome. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that he's trying to be innovative. But at the very least, you have to know what you're making. If I was a shareholder, I'd be worried. What is this game about? What genre is it, and who does it appeal to? Most importantly, is it fun? Being innovative isn't enough. It still has to be a good time at the end of the day. This is a video game, not a movie.

[harmny]

1- he is Kojima. That's enough.
2- he knows what he is doing. Lol. You take things too literally

[CanadianTurtle]

I'm sorry sir, but I'm not a blind follower of Kojima. Even industry titans are capable of making mistakes. This is especially true if everyone worships them, then they get high off their own farts and think they can turn iron into gold.

[Acecalibur]

I cant wait to finish it and still not know what the hell is going on.

[Kassanova07]

Wait what?

[SegaGamer]

Is this guy just saying stuff for a reaction these days? Maybe all of the ass kissing has gone to his head.

[MasterCornholio]

This is going to be one weird experience that's for sure.

[BrettAwesome]

I'm getting fed up with his self important bs. "That Kojīma is just such a special guy" yeah ok, point taken!

[jwillj2k4]

Walking simulator mixed with confusing cut scenes. Hope I’m wrong though! 🤣🤣🤣
29315;

[0hMyGandhi]

N4G is hilarious.
Y'all absolutely crucified people for commenting on an article that asked if Kojima was better when he was with Konami (in that, someone like him needs some tamping down of his wildest ideas, and to keep things streamlined without going totally batsh*t crazy and alienating 90 percent of your potential audience)

Now, Kojima himself is just admitting that his imagination runs wild, and because it's his studio, and he's surrounded by people who adore him, he will experiment and never be told "no".

I loved Metal Gear Solid. I eagerly await this game. But people like Kojima sometimes need to be contained and kept to reasonable limitations. Even under Konami, there were so many bizarre things about MGS, (the story as a whole makes absolutely no sense) and I fear that this game might be just weird. And weirdness in and of itself can be quite polarizing.

[Giblet_Head]

Kojima is a perfectionist, that's more a curse than a blessing in a place business where you require other people's *finite* funds to bring your constantly changing idea into fruition. If it was his own money then it'd be entirely his burden to coax himself to some sort of coherency toward a finished product. Sadly the man surrounds himself with yes men.

[Emme]

I bet he is channeling a higher power when designing a game.

[IRetrouk]

some of you "fans" need to get a grip and stop jumping on every misquoted quote or headline lol
heres the full quote from the source.

“Death Stranding… even now, I don’t understand the game,” he pretends to confide, still giving nothing away. “Its world view, gameplay, they are all new. My mission is to create a genre that does not currently exist, and which takes everyone by surprise. There is, naturally, a risk in that…”

[LordJamar]

Gonna either be great or horrible we will see

[AshleeEmerson]

I'm really happy to hear this... About 4 years ago I went to this art convention and there was an artist there who had no idea what he just painted but it was so beautiful that I couldn't believe my eyes, it was like a mix between all reality and what could be next. It was like a mix between having stars at your fingertips and fishing in an underground Pond of passion. I know it sounds insane but sometimes when an artist has the ability to create whatever they want something amazing comes out. I fully believe in this game and I am super hyped.

[BigTrain]

Definitely sitting this out. That is not a good marketing pitch.

[trooper_]

I wonder how many people actually read the article instead of going by the clickbait title?

[IRetrouk]

the article aint much better to be fair, you can find the original article that this one is based on online without the paywall.

[trooper_]

Again, did anyone read the article properly?
You'll also see that he implies that he's taking a risk creating this type of game. I don't think he necessarily meant e doesn't know what he's making.

[savedsynner]

So Kojima and the public are in the same boat. As of now, it looks like a hiking simulator. I've loved every main series Metal Gear solid game except for 2, so Kojima has a great track record with me but we'll see if completely unchained, what Kojima will do.

[IRetrouk]

here is the full article from the financial times that this article is based on

For over an hour now, Hideo Kojima has been valiantly trying to stick to his own rules. But the craftsman’s pride is clearly under strain. The legendary gamesmaker has agreed to an FT interview on the understanding it will not delve too deeply into Death Stranding – a title trading heavily on pre-release mystique, that ranks, for many reasons, among the most anticipated video games of all time. But, finally, Kojima’s resolve seems to break.

“Death Stranding… even now, I don’t understand the game,” he pretends to confide, still giving nothing away. “Its world view, gameplay, they are all new. My mission is to create a genre that does not currently exist, and which takes everyone by surprise. There is, naturally, a risk in that…”

It is purest Kojima. Purest showmanship. This moment – and the remaining weeks before Death Stranding’s release in November – are the culmination of one of the great dramas to grip the $135bn global games industry: Kojima’s abrupt departure from the Japanese games company Konami in 2015 and subsequent establishment of his own studio.

The game, a sci-fi adventure whose details have been deliberately shrouded in intrigue, emerges from a still-unresolved four-year mystery surrounding the precise reasons he left, strict non-disclosure on both sides and breathless speculation among fans over what direction Kojima would take once independent.

At the centre of all that is a gently spoken creator of bestsellers such as the Metal Gear franchise. Kojima enjoys megastar status among a worldwide fan base and, aged 56, personifies geeky mischief. The Death Stranding launch is Kojima’s first as CEO of his own company. It is a landmark for the industry and, visibly, a nerve-jangler for him. The technology, he says, has finally advanced far enough for him to create what he always imagined games would be capable of delivering.

[IRetrouk]

Pre-release details about ‘Death Stranding’ are, naturally, minimal – but its key characters include Sam Bridges (above), ‘played’ by actor Norman Reedus. Mads Mikkelsen and Guillermo del Toro also voice ‘spookily accurate simulacra’
Judging by the trailers, Death Stranding, which “stars” actors Norman Reedus, Mads Mikkelsen and Guillermo del Toro (they voice spookily accurate simulacra on screen), comes closer than anything before to the merging of games and film, and the narrative and visual rhythms of both. That synthesis, Kojima says, has been a defining ambition since when, as a latchkey child in Kansai, he spent long, unsupervised hours absorbing all available modes of storytelling.

“In my childhood, there were no good teachers or adults around me. I was disappointed in them. But I discovered amazing tales by reading novels or watching movies: they moved me, and I moved forward. The stories helped me when I was lost in life,” he says, recalling what it was like to be among one of the last waves of Japanese children to enter their teens without video games. By the time Space Invaders first appeared in 1978, Kojima was already in junior high school.

The trailer for the game (above), a sci-fi adventure, also suggests that Kojima has delivered on his long-held ambition to merge games and film and ‘create a new genre that … takes everyone by surprise’
“But at that point, I began to realise the possibilities that came with making things. And it’s not that I’m only creating the things that I want to make. The reason why I want to make things is that, through my past experiences, I know I can influence and help others who I haven’t even met.”

[IRetrouk]

His spectacular success in doing so means he has millions of admirers around the world, desperate to see what their hero will come up with now that he is free of Konami. They constantly bombard him with reminders of how close the Death Stranding launch is, using Twitter to count down to the game’s release. “After 30 years preparing for launches, I can sleep OK at this stage of the countdown…” he says, somewhat uncertainly. “I just don’t dream.”

Comparisons are inevitably made between Kojima and Shigeru Miyamoto, the creative brain behind much of Nintendo’s best-known output. There are fascinating similarities and, to many, the pair represent the yin-yang diarchy of Japanese gamesmaking. While Miyamoto’s genius lies in the soft, family-friendly contours of Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikmin and the fantasy worlds they inhabit, Kojima has focused on the stubble-chinned violence of mercenaries, spies and assassins, his games giving their exploits a cinematic edge.

My mission is to create a genre that does not currently exist, and takes everyone by surprise

As Kojima talks, he keeps returning to the confluence of film and games. He remarks in particular on the effect that he believes games – after almost 40 years in the mainstream – have had on a new generation of film-makers. As the great proponent of cinematic games, Kojima says he constantly receives requests to direct movies but always turns them down.

“The thing that surprises me is that all the visual creators in their thirties…grew up as gamers,” he says. “People who first came into contact with stories through games, or found out about the profession through games, are now making films. I find that fascinating because I am the opposite: I came to films first but now I make games.”

The thought is interrupted by an odd interlude. We are speaking in the side room of Casita, a swish and fairly busy Italian bistro in Aoyama – a district of Tokyo usually so replete with celebrities that they spark minimal fuss. Kojima’s fame, however, exceeds normal limits and adoring staff have worked out who their guest is. He stops mid-sentence and points up towards the speakers, delighted.

The soft jazz that had been playing discreetly across the restaurant’s dark, hardwood interior has suddenly been replaced with the theme music from some of Kojima’s hit games. Harry Gregson-Williams’ music is sublime in its context but Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots is not, Kojima acknowledges, terribly restauranty.

He pauses, adjusting a pair of large, blue-framed glasses of his own design, and returns to the way in which games have not only influenced films, but have also changed the way in which people watch them. “There are stories being told [in cinema] that my generation may find surprising but which the gamer generation doesn’t find weird at all,” he says.

While a master craftsman, Kojima is also a pragmatist: ‘If you take something that looks like a banana and give it the title “apple”, that works as art. But it doesn’t apply to games. We are making things that are interactive’
He then corrects what he sees as a common misconception. In its most breathless form, Kojima-worship slips into equating video games with art. But while Kojima agrees that he was sucked into games for their potential as a creative medium, he takes a more pragmatic view than some of his fans would like. He calls what he does a service industry – in some sense an art, but more akin to what sushi masters do. Their dishes may be beautiful, but they always have nourishment as the principal goal.

[IRetrouk]

“If you take something that looks like a banana and give it the title ‘apple’, that works as art. But it doesn’t apply to games. We are making things that are interactive. A banana has to be edible after you peel the skin. Cars have to be drivable. For games to be interactive and to deliver the enjoyment, there has to be a reality where there are lots of people backstage making it all happen. That is us – a kind of art-driven service industry.”

The dominant theme of Kojima’s conversation is his theory that games are in some ways the ultimate expression of craftsmanship. For most of his career, Kojima was synonymous with Konami, the Japanese company that started life in the late 1960s repairing broken jukeboxes, but rode the growth first of arcades and later consoles to become one of the country’s biggest games companies.

Kojima operated within the sometimes constrictive walls of that alma mater, but did so with such verve, and to such acclaim, that he became one of the first producers whose name appeared on the packaging above his games’ titles, like a Spielberg-calibre film director.

Another of the game’s characters, Fragile (above), is ‘played’ by Léa Seydoux. As a latchkey child, Kojima spent many hours absorbing all forms of storytelling: ‘I discovered amazing tales by reading novels or watching movies. They moved me’
His output was substantial and varied. As his fame grew, his production unit operated more as a subsidiary of Konami, with ever greater control of budgets and artistic direction. This gave him broad scope to push his own visions for games, but his unit was still subject to the need to churn out a steady flow of product.

Kojima hints at some of the challenges he encountered in trying to convince the hierarchy of a Japanese company that the convergence of games and film was achievable, but admits his early requests to put Hollywood actors into games as playable characters were unrealistic and rejected.

His most defining and successful creation was the Metal Gear series of intricately plotted action thrillers – a run of games so commercially important to Konami that it commanded its own separate line in the company’s financial statements.

Kojima’s fame and fan base grew over his years at Konami, where his stellar output included the ‘Metal Gear’ series. Millions worldwide are now counting down the days on Twitter until ‘Death Stranding’ (clip from the trailer above) is released on November 8

[IRetrouk]

His sudden departure, which Konami insists was amicable, played out in the press as a grand mystery. There was no shortage of theories about its cause. Many of them focused on the idea that Konami’s management may have found it hard to cope with an influence as outsized as Kojima’s.

But what has emerged from this turmoil will, he says, give him full control over the process that first brought him to games – the practice referred to by the Japanese word monozukuri. This is the “thingmaking” or craftsmanship which, for many of the country’s most famous companies, is used to define their reason for existing.

“Now I have my own studio, but what I want to do is the same as before. I want to do monozukuri. Game designing is a holistic thing for me. Working with all the designs, stories, concepts, graphics and sound. That is the meaning of game designing,” he says, adding that the role of director is the only one that combines all of these in one job. The years before he was given that responsibility were frustrating, he says. “When I first joined the company after graduating from college, it was so difficult to convince others what I really wanted to make.”

After 30 years preparing for launches, I can sleep OK at this stage…I just don’t dream

Steady improvements in technology have allowed him to inch closer to his childhood vision of monozukuri. When he entered the industry in 1986, he says, game graphics were nothing special, the sounds were primitive and the available palette of colours small. “If you fired across the screen in Metal Gear, your bullets would start to vanish because of the limited number of sprites [graphic display elements]. Looking back, [Konami] at that time wasn’t the right place for someone like me who wanted to make films, but I sensed that games had enormous potential,” he says.

In fact, he elaborates, he was certain that they did. The decisive factor was the surging global success of the Nintendo Entertainment System console, which brought games from the arcade into the home. Just as comedians go misty-eyed at the thought of heyday routines by Lenny Bruce or Joan Rivers, gamesmakers rhapsodise about Nintendo’s Super Mario – the supreme example of immersing the player in narrative using the most basic gaming tools.

“It was 2D, and all Mario could do was run or jump,” Kojima recalls. “You just travelled from left to right. The goal was on your right and you just jumped over anything that blocked your way. The shocking thing, though, was that you could play it endlessly, just jumping and running. Left to right. There was no depth, just metal drums here and there, but you really felt as if you were adventuring. Even with those graphics and [that] sound, I was convinced that this was going to be an incredible medium.”

Others were sceptical. When he told friends that he wanted to work for a games company, they strongly opposed the idea. “Normal people didn’t go to work at games companies back then,” Kojima says. “I thought I was taking a risk, but the technology evolved faster than I expected.”

Kojima with Norman Reedus at the Tribeca Film Festival, New York, April 25; ‘normal people’ didn’t go to work at games companies when he was growing up, he says. ‘But I was convinced that [games were] going to be an incredible medium’
That draws his thoughts back to Death Stranding, and his attempts not to show his nerves about the release. The restaurant staff do not make it easy. One appears with a cappuccino whose foam has been intricately decorated with the Death Stranding logo. Kojima joyously snaps it from a dozen angles for his Instagram before finally lifting the cup to his lips. There is a tiny note on the saucer, left there by one of his fans in the kitchen: “91 days to go!” it reads.

[mandingo]

Another kojima game that won’t make sense. Shocking. Sale

[andibandit]

Some things you should keep to yourself or at least until after the game has released

[DaGR8JIBRALTAR]

I've been skeptical from the jump and now he makes a statement like this?

Yeaaa...it's a no from me dawg.

[formanbradley]

How to feel super smart:
Hey, look at all this waaaaacky stuff! Pretty weird, right? Riiiiight? Isn't it cool that everything is so weird?! You wanna know what's going on here, don't you?

Well here's an explanation that makes no sense, because the mechanics of the universe are exclusive to its fiction. I'm such a genius, please send movie stars my way and make news stories about my tweets.

[Thundercat77]

I don't even know how to react to that.

[milohighclub]

If the writer doesnt understand it then why ishe even making it? Isnt the point of the medium to tell a story? Sounds like hes just making it up as he goes along.

[mogwaii]

Oh dear.