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Guns of the Patriots or Phantom Pain? - Metal Gear Solid 4 vs. Metal Gear Solid V

"Before Hideo Kojima and Konami parted ways, the Metal Gear Solid series had a couple of mind-blowing final chapters so let's explore the gameplay and stories of each and see which snake comes out on top." - A.J. Maciejewski from Video Chums

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VideoChums44d ago

If you want, you can vote for your favourite at the bottom of the article! 🎮😄

FallenAngel198444d ago

MGS4 didn’t have enough sneaking levels against human enemies

naruga44d ago (Edited 44d ago )

MGS 4 was a superior game by large margin ...full of details and knowledge about the military world (tactics , equipment, represantation of equipment , causes/results of war , psychology etcetc) that no game has ever touch it to that level yet and it is also faithfull to original MGS formula in every way (characters , humor , sci fi plots, action etc) ......it s only con imo is its size that could have been bigger by 1-2 more Acts

DarXyde44d ago (Edited 44d ago )

I don't pretend to know much about the military, but I am quite well versed in psychology and The Phantom Pain's psychological themes were better portrayed in my opinion. The psyche meter in MGS4 was a great addition, but I don't think it portrayed PTSD of the B&B Unit quite as well. Their backstories didn't really seem to match up with their expressed triggers very well.

The Phantom Pain did a better job of addressing the psychological aspects phantom limb pain, trauma of lost identity and the acceptance and commitment aspect, self suggestion, compassion fatigue, and even the neuropathological implications of the shrapnel, however, even here, Kojima messed up because he didn't really get it entirely right with the neuro cognitive systems involved in localizing the brain injury. Even so, I think The Phantom Pain does better with psychology.

I also have to push back on explaining the causes of war. The Phantom Pain is more about what really happened with the mujahedeen in the 80s and inserts itself into actual events. Diamond Dogs as a private army did a lot of hired work to build their own presence, which is not uncommon. Nuclear disarmament and espionage of other international organizations is another big thing. The Phantom Pain also goes well beyond what a lot of other games do in terms of portrayal of the realities of war, though it misses the mark for palatability, specifically the nature of war crimes (e.g., attempted rape and recruitment of child soldiers; in the case of the latter, you can only knock them out, but not kill them). MGSV did some pretty profound things with its themes, honestly. The execution just fell short because the story elements were weaker.

I think MGS4 was a better fleshed out narrative, but I think you're selling the themes in The Phantom Pain short. MGSV had better gameplay and the themes were grand, but it didn't come together as well as MGS4.

naruga44d ago (Edited 44d ago )

@ DrXyde ...indeed all the things you say are mentioned in mGS V ....but in some way are not portrayed/ presented very well or not even at all....MGS4 managed to do better job to visualize (better interactivity) those things (psyche meter . stress meter, equipment/ weapons handling,future military hi tech , fiction + realistic military roles for every character etc etc ...if we sit to analyze MGS 4 tech and scientific details that Kojima included in the game we would need 2 pages of comments)..

.also dont forget that are video games that must be enjoyable to interact with ...so all that psychology "heavy" staff you mention could not be easily be implemented from one point and simultaneously the game to be pleasurable to play or accessible for casual audiences ......that balance of video game structure and fiction/scientific staff was imo better worked in MGS4

DarXyde43d ago

naruga,
"but in some way are not portrayed/ presented very well or not even at all....MGS4 managed to do better job to visualize (better interactivity) those things"

These things, including overall health, are better represented in MGSV. Stress and psychological distress, in reality and MGSV, are invisible until or unless they are behavioral. It would be nice if we had some indication of our psychological state, but we don't, and MGSV represents this by omission. Other aspects of great portrayal for psychological well-being in MGSV include (but are not limited to) Reflex Mode demonstrating hypervigilance, healing slower when stressed (i.e., alert mode and combat), Quiet’s humming providing steadier aim, and Snake's tendency to experience traumatic hallucinations and bright lights.

"also dont forget that are video games that must be enjoyable to interact with ...so all that psychology "heavy" staff you mention could not be easily be implemented from one point and simultaneously the game to be pleasurable to play or accessible for casual audiences"

I didn't realize Metal Gear Solid was made for casual audiences... Do you believe that? The emphasis on narrative alone should tell you that jumping into the series uninformed takes away from the experience considerably. Here's the thing: MGSV is pretty fun to play as a game, but it is not perfect--it is, for one, barren. Gameplay could make titles more accessible, but that by no means suggests it is casual. MGS4 is fun as well and no one denies that, but it is less interactive than MGSV. Lastly, your point on things not being "easily implemented"...what? I don't recall Kojima being someone who strives for ease with things. He is something of a perfectionist. He approaches challenging things in creative ways. To this end, I believe he succeeds with MGSV.

"that balance of video game structure and fiction/scientific staff was imo better worked in MGS4"

Disagree on this point. As a -game-, I would say MGSV runs circles around MGS4. It is hard to dispute that MGSV's gameplay is an evolution or, dare I say, revolution, of its predecessors. I'll grant MGS4 some credit here in that Snake was old and less capable, so the immersion aspect here was fine. I will also agree that the science-fiction aspect was better. My goal is not to take away from MGS4--I thought it was great. I just don't believe it was the better game. Narrative was better, but I felt there was no comparison in terms of gameplay.

Mind you, these games are not meant to compete with each other; they have the same creator. It is, however, quite natural for it to outshine its predecessor in gameplay mechanics. Story did suffer, which is an egregious sin for a Metal Gear Solid title, but I think that was guaranteed to happen when Konami and Kojima fell out. MGSV was crippled, yet it was still the greater experience in terms of gameplay. That said, numerically, every Metal Gear Solid game has surpassed the gameplay of its predecessor. MGS was basic, MGS2 was a safe evolution of gameplay mechanics, MGS3 overhauled that system, MGS4 overhauled that, and MGSV overhauled it again, getting better each time. I think people tend to judge these games exclusively by their narratives because, despite MGS2 being a better game mechanically than MGS1 overall, people say MGS1 was a better game; I even have problems with that because MGS2 was incredibly underrated in terms of the story it told and the socially conscious message behind the events of the game. Honestly, I thought it was the most woke entry in the series. Snake Eater, I contend, is the gold standard of narrative and gameplay, but that's another conversation.

FallenAngel198444d ago

I enjoyed Acts 1 & 2. But there should’ve been more like it. After that every other act plays differently and you can’t ignore that since it’s 3/5ths of the entire game

2pacalypsenow44d ago

How you gonna forget Act 4, the best one!?

2pacalypsenow44d ago

Well it was in the future where metal gears ruled the battlefield.

It wasn’t the 1980’s like MGS5.

FallenAngel198444d ago

That doesn’t mean you couldn’t put in more human enemies.

Act 3 had them but the player is too busy trying to tail someone so it was a different experience.

Act 4 had only machines which was an interesting change of pace but could be cheesed with chaff

Act 5 only had one section as a stealth

I’ve replayed MGS4 as much as the next guy and have only one Trophy left to platinum the game, but it still would’ve been nice to have more human enemies. That’s why I spent countless hours in MGO’s TSNE

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 43d ago
2pacalypsenow44d ago

Metal Gear Solid 4 is miles better than MGS5.

robtion43d ago

You are correct. The only issue with MGS4 was the loading as it pushed the ps3 to the limit. Really surpised it hasn't got a ps4 release. Would be amazing.

Jsm89k43d ago

It wouldn’t work on ps4, mgs4 utilitized the pressure sensitive controls of the ds3 which are non existent on the ds4. A shame cuz I was hoping to see mgo in glorious 4k60fraps

lociefer44d ago (Edited 44d ago )

Mgs4 every time, not only did it provide closure, unforgettable moments, and nanomachines, it was a graphical showcase and had very intersting mechanics ( camo-suit).

Mgs5 on the other hand was a piece of sh*t that never should have happened, not only did we not see big boss's demise into madness as was advertised, the twist was a fu*king kick in the nuts, and that code breaker character was one of the worst characters in video games history, F that game

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