Dauntless Dev On Crossplay: “I Think Sony Got Some Undue Backlash” Due To “Big Interest”

The CEO of Dauntless developer Phoenix Labs, Jesse Houston, believes that Sony has been receiving undeserved backlash over its stance and vision on cross platform play.

[Eonjay]

All you have to do is follow the money. The reason why Xbox supports cross platform play this gen when they didn't last gen is because there is profit in selling an API that can route everything through Xbox Live. Everyone know that Sony actually supports more Crossplay titles than Xbox. But because Sony denied Xbox Live integration, Microsoft has launched a disinformation campaign so it can create its own version of the truth and have it feed to gamers.

This was never about crossplay. This was always about forcing Xbox Live onto Sony devs coordinately.

[Atom666]

So when Sony wanted it, was it all about Sony forcing PSN onto Xbox devs?

[Eonjay]

No. Sony wasn't offering a tool like Microsoft is. Also, Epic is Microsoft's true problem on this front because they offer a similar tool. Notice a super strong anti Epic campaign going around?

[Atom666]

What tool are these 3rd party devs offering?

[Codedan]

PSN was not near XBL’s level during that time.

[TopherMan]

When did Sony ever want cross play with Xbox?

[one2thr]

@Topherman

Last gen.

[TopherMan]

Pretty sure they didn’t. It came up with MS and they said it wouldn’t happen. Sony wasn’t involved in the discussion last gen at all.

[darthv72]

Eonjay, lest ye forget who was in charge of both MS and Xbox last gen. Sony had a vision of cross play last gen and MS didnt want to have anything to do with it because they wanted to "kill sony" (as Balmer puts it).

So when new leadership comes in, does that mean they have to adhere to the previous rules and regulations set forth or do they have a say now in how to move things forward? I think it would be the later. Which is why the new heads were more receptive to the idea.

And you know what.... so are the fans. Believe it or not but people like to play games with/against each other. Be it in the same room or across the world. The online space is big enough to support people on various PC/MAC hardware... I think consoles should be allowed to as well.

Yes Topher... last gen Sony never said no, they said it was up to the individual devs/pubs. It was Ms who said no. Now when MS is supportive it is Sony who says "think of the children".

[one2thr]

@Topherman

Trion Global Brand Director Alex Rodberg said that while this cross-platform mingling can be done, it's extremely unlikely that such a thing would ever reach live servers: "Microsoft won't let Sony players play against them."

"We have a high level of expectation for our game developers to ensure that all Live experiences remain top notch. Because we can't guarantee this level of quality, or control the player experience on other consoles or gaming networks, we currently do not open our network to games that allow this cross-over capability."

-MS

https://www.google.com/amp/...

Where were you guys[Disagrees] "Last Gen"?

[Atom666]

@one2thr

Believe it or not, some of us weren't happy about that last gen either, although it wasn't nearly as prevalent as we see in recent years.

Your bigger point is the most disappointing and common response though. So I ask: Why should we be ok with anyone mirroring one of MSs greedy moves?

[TopherMan]

@one2thr

No where in that article did Sony say they wanted cross play. Sony wasn’t quoted at all. We know MS was against cross play but we don’t know if Sony was for it.

[XtaZ]

TopherMan is right and everybody knows that Sony never wanted cross-play with Microsoft and it's just one of the many lies Sony fanboys made up and keep repeating over and over to excuse Sony and comfort themselves. Sony never invited MS or Nintendo to do cross-play and they never pushed the concept to other consoles what so ever in any shape or form.

[rainslacker]

Sony just said they were open to it. They never made a big deal about it other than that one comment. They went and implemented cross play API's and compliance standards, but either MS never approached Sony to make something work, or they couldn't come to an agreement last gen about how to implement it between the two platforms, but they did it behind closed doors, and no one was the wiser.

Spencer, on the other hand, says they're ready to implement it, pandering off the back of the bit of traction and bad press Sony got from Rocket League's dev saying that MS told him to ask Sony, to which Sony said no because it was their policy at the time, and the rest is history of everything being Sony's fault.

What transpired between the two companies to make it happen is not known, but obviously they came to some sort of agreement because they have a beta program in place, which is going on too long IMO, but the press, a few other developers, and of course, many fan boys, made it all into Sony wasn't doing anything.

It's just another time where narratives were twisted to validate personal bias, and it was fueled by assumption, speculation, or outright hate.

@Eon

Sony isn't offering tools? They have API's which are included with every SDK and dev kit, as well as compliance standards on how to implement it. The only thing they lack is the ability to have it between other consoles, but that isn't going to solely be on Sony for all these years where no one else was on board, and no one should have expected Sony to just stop everything to comply to MS wishes because they just happen to be ready. Especially when MS was using it as a way to deride Sony in the press.

[one2thr]

@Atom

Your bigger point is the most disappointing and common response though. So I ask: Why should we be ok with anyone mirroring one of MSs greedy moves?

Never said I was ok with it, just pointing out that this crossplay idea was shot down last gen, and no one batted an eye at the results, but this gen a lot of out of no where outrage is stacked against a company that was open to the idea "Last Gen"

@Topher

Just because they didnt say they wanted it, doesn't prove that they weren't open to the idea of allowing it, hence the interest behind certain devs willingless to provide it.

Looking inbetween those lines, it seem as though Sony left that decision up to developers and other platform companies to allow crossplay.

But you see how that ended...

[gamer7804]

Times have changed, online multiplayer is more popular than ever. Its only natural thinking to want more people to play together. This is also in gamers' best interests. My only gripe is developers need to do more with cross platform matchmaking so that you can seek out particular friends and not just add to the player base.

[UltraNova]

You need to read up on corporate dealings, especially on platform sharing cuts.

[RauLeCreuset]

Times didn't change, business needs did. Each company's position on cross-play just so happens to correlate with their business needs.

[-Foxtrot]

I think the Bethesda one said it all really

Bethesda: "We want crossplay with Fallout 76 but Sony isn't playing nice"

Gamers: "Can't you just do Xbox and PC then?"

Bethesda: "Yeah Sony isn't allowing us. Impossible. We'd love to but..."

Gamers: "So how does that affect the Xbox and PC crossplay then"

Bethesda: "Sony...Bad...out of our hands, typical Sony. Sorry guys"

Sony: "We've decided to look into it and explore our options in cross play now"

Gamers: "Now we can get crossplay for Fallout 76"

Bethesda: "We never really planned on crossplay, it's not easy to add, it takes a lot of time. It's not on the cards right not"

...

Gamers: "Wait...what...but you said"

[SpaceRanger]

Once you hear anything to the phrase of “it’s not that easy” or “it’s not a press of a button process”, it’s easy to spot the agenda.

The lack of transparency and not owning up to false statements is what makes people look bad in this industry.

[Neonridr]

well that's Bethesda, how often do you take them at their word anyways?

Plenty of other devs have said they would love to do cross-play but Sony isn't really giving them much. How many people have to say it before it suddenly becomes a topic of interest? You can try to hide it or sweep it under the rug, but cross-play would benefit so many smaller studios and indie developers.

And nobody's gaming experience would be ruined if they had more people online to play against, that's just flat out ridiculous if you honestly believe other wise. It's 2019, we have cars that can drive themselves, we have all sorts of ridiculous tech that can make your life easier. But if you own an Xbox you can't play against people with a PS4.... come on. PC gamers have all different tech inside, imagine if AMD and Intel users couldn't play against each other online..

[-Foxtrot]

Soooo what's the excuse here for them to allow it on Xbox and PC? They stated it was Sony not being helpful yet they could have just worked on Xbox and PC.

Face it, a lot of developers knew people wanted cross play in their games because of how much press the feature was getting, instead of coming out and saying "Yeah we're not working on crossplay" only to disappoint people and possibly have bad press on their games they came out and shifted the blame on Sony's stance so they could be used as a scapegoat

"Jeez guys, we'd love to but it's TOTALLY out of our hands"

Fact is, like what happened with Bethesda, when they finally get it and they decide to work towards cross play everyone goes quiet.

[Vizigoth04]

Yeah but PC Devs aren't trying to sell Dell's or HPs or other gaming PCs. Just their game. Sony is trying to sell consoles.

[Rachel_Alucard]

@foxtrot

If you knew the development cycle of 76, you'd understand the devs just made a piss poor game that got slapped together at Bethesda Austin and used Sony's stance as an excuse and it backfired when they changed their minds. They were being disingenuous.

[UltraNova]

Neither Intel or AMD are in the gaming Software business. If they did, I bet the story would be quite different.

[rainslacker]

Plenty as in how many?

Seriously....make a list, or give me an actual number of how many devs said they want to implement cross play, but Sony wasn't allowing it.

Please...I'm tired of the hyperbole. I want actual facts of who all these devs are.

Before MS said they were open.....there was literally one dev in the first three years of this gen who said anything, and that dev wasn't saying it as a way to try and make Sony as the bad guy. He even said that MS told him no first. After that, I don't recall "plenty" of other devs saying they wanted it.

[Atom666]

I see that being parroted by many for obvious reasons, but it's not accurate.

Bethesda's push for cross play was for that ES Legends game. They literally came out and said exactly that. 76 never had it, and was never being pushed to have it by Bethesda. It was all about that small card game.

[-Foxtrot]

And I see that kind of stuff being parroted around by yourself and others for obvious reasons...you don't look into this.

https://www.polygon.com/201...

“You cannot do cross-play in 76,” Howard said

“We’d really love that but right now we can’t. Sony is not as helpful as everyone would like.”

Funny isn't it. Todd Howard, the director on Fallout 76 said that you cannot do cross play on, you guessed it, Fallout 76.

Unless Fallout 76 in this interview is code for Elder Scrolls Legends? Hmmm. How...odd huh?

[Atom666]

Haha uh oh, you got me!

Kids were arguing about this on Twitter months ago. No, you're still wrong. Listen to the actual (german?) interview. He's talking about their BS mobile games and loving crossplay. Gets asked about 76 (answers with that said, no 76 doesn't have it). Then gets asked about MS and Sony (says Sony's not helpful with crossplay). We know that's his position based on what he already said.

Somehow that gets made into "OMG! He's such a liar! Lol."

Try harder.

[TekoIie]

@-Foxtrot

You kind of shot yourself in the foot linking that article because we now know that even though Sony publicly reversed their stance they've been extremely selective on who they allow to implement crossplay.

The reality was that Sony's only reversed their position for two games and no one else since. So wanting to do it and being able to do it isn't easy when we look at how difficult Sony has been on this. I don't even like Bethesda but you'd have to be stupid to think you've got them cornered or that you've caught them being inconsistent.

[one2thr]

@Tekolie

But you completely glazed over the fact that Bethesda, didn't implement a crossplay feature for PC and Xbox.

How can they make any arguments about crossplay, when there are other platforms more than willing to support it, but the feature wasn't ever going to be created?

[TekoIie]

"But you completely glazed over the fact that Bethesda, didn't implement a crossplay feature for PC and Xbox."

Maybe because when they discussed the feature they wanted full crossplay between all platforms. When Sony shut the whole thing down they redirected resources that would've been used for crossplay to another area of development. No point working on a feature that was being blocked because one platform holder was refusing to play ball.

"How can they make any arguments about crossplay, when there are other platforms more than willing to support it, but the feature wasn't ever going to be created??"

So? I'm concerned about the whole picture and not just going to use one developer to defend my position. Many devs want to implement crossplay and the best response you have is "Bu-bu-bu Bethesda". I'm interested in defending the developers ability to link all versions of their games together if that's what they want.

You on the other hand are defending a platform holder who is so scared of losing their position in the console market that they think crossplay alone would significantly damage their 1st place spot.

[ziggurcat]

“Bethesda's push for cross play was for that ES Legends”

Foxtrot is referring to Fallout 76:

https://www.polygon.com/pla...

Where they said Sony wasn’t being helpful with its implementation. It made no sense because they could have done Xbox/PC cross play without Sony’s permission. They then admitted later on that they pretty much had no intention of having that in the game, but it didn’t stop them from dragging Sony through the mud.

The ES card game was a veiled threat to not release the game on PS4 if Sony didn’t allow cross play.

[gamer7804]

It depends on how a particular game was written, it could be easier for some games to do crossplay than others.

[Fluttershy77]

Not written, coded! What importance could possibly have the text of the game for crossplay?!!

Some of these comments...

[rainslacker]

If cross play is supported on the API level, it's pretty easy to implement. Even if it isn't, it isn't that hard to implement. The games translate the network protocols, so each server can remain it's own thing. The issue comes from resolving the data from each server, so it's recognizable by the games being played which get data from another server. That isn't that hard to really deal with depending on how complex the interactivity between players is. When it comes to multiple consoles, there are other security concerns that have to be considered and abided by by both versions of the game, but one would assume that the API's would account for that, since those API's would have to be approved by both console makers, and ideally, they'd be co-developed to be fluid for the dev. Both Sony and MS are pretty good at their API's being fluid for things for the devs.

[Fluttershy77]

Meh Bethesda didn't said that you just created all this dialogue

[-Foxtrot]

I didn’t say they did

It’s called a fun poke or stab at them

[gamer7804]

by written I meant coded obviously...

[Rimeskeem]

Finally, a dev gets it.

[AspiringProGenji]

When you are on top, everything is put against you. Sony has stuck with their decision and everyone even forgot about crossplay

[PlayStationBrah]

Holy crap. This isn't a gamingbolt article?!?!?

[rainslacker]

No, Gamingbolt would have twisted it in a way to somehow say that this dev said that the backlash wasn't enough.

WCCTech isn't much better, but they don't actually misquote usually. Clickbait sure. But not usually so much to completely twist the words of devs.

[slavish0]

Lol so this game will not support cross play with ps4?

[Kashima]

Did you read the article? or you jumped to comment section immediately when you read "Sony" "Crossplay"?

[DillyDilly]

People simply wanna play with friends & family without having to buy another console & cant blame them

[gamer7804]

yup can't disagree there

[sprinterboy]

Cross play does not have a "big interest" ask 75% of the gaming market ie the casual and they won't even know what your on about.

[pyroxxx]

Don't give a rats arse about crossplay,.. never did,..

Hell even PlayStation gamers are sometimes annoying as hell,..Really have no need to listen to certifiable morons, that bought a system with no exclusive games over PlayStation,... (but than again I do understand people who have a huge 360 library)

[OneLove]

All of you anti crossplay guys are the minority that prefers single player over multiplayer. Remember that.

[rainslacker]

Actually, those that are against cross play, or don't care about it either way, are the substantial majority. Not all multiplayer gamers care or need the feature, and the only reason there is even an anti-crossplay sentiment is because of the way it was used to attack Sony.

Last gen, lack of cross play wasn't used as a way to attack MS, and while it sometimes had some heat, it never got to the heights it does now, because gamers weren't riding MS ass constantly over it. If they were, MS fans last gen would have been just as obstinate about the feature.

Also, SP games still sell more overall than MP games. MP games make more money overall.

There is a huge market for MP games, and speaking of percentages, there are still a significant number of people who want cross play. but cross play has been around for a while before MS was suddenly ready, and even after all those years, the games that had them, it was never that big of a deal, nor was it a huge selling feature for those games. Just because it's between consoles now doesn't make it any more or less important to people, except now, there is more of a console war element attached to it.

Remember that.

[Realms]

It's funny that certain issues only became issues because Sony refused, I don't care enough one way or another and it does get tiring seeing the vocal minority complain over the same issue. Cross play was never talked about last gen, just for some context Sony does have more cross play games and started doing cross play way before MS ever did so keep that in mind when saying Sony is anti consumer. We all know why Sony does "NOT" want cross play with MS and I'm ok with that if it means protecting their user base. Even if some people really want this many more either don't care enough to complain or just plain don't care.

This goes for BC as well since people like to conveniently forget that Sony offered BC every single generation except for the current one and low and behold it became an issue. When Sony offered it nobody cared, my point is that these where non issues and only became relevant as an excuse to throw shade at Sony. When Sony inevitably offers BC next gen it will go back to being a non issue because they won't be able to use that as an excuse to complain.

[NeoGamer232]

It is not undeserving of backlash.

The way I look at it...

Sony's position last generation was to promote crossplay last generation and I really liked the idea.

Then, they found themselves in the driver's seat this generation and have conveniently changed their mind.

There is no possible argument that crossplay is not pro consumer. Especially, when every cross play seems to allow you to change a setting to only play against the platform you are on. To me, the backlash is about their changing position based on market position. And this is why when one company dominates any market it is not good for consumers. A market where innovation is driven through competition is the best by far.

[rainslacker]

Maybe some criticism, but the level of backlash it received this gen? That was certainly "undue".

Sony didn't overly promote cross play last gen. They had it. Sometimes it was mentioned by the games that offered it, but I don't recall Sony ever making a big deal about it. Even when asked about it last gen, they nonchalantly said they were open to it, then left it at that. They said more about it this gen than last....which is to say maybe they mentioned it three times.

Why they changed their mind is unknown, but people assume that it's Sony's fault. No one knows why Sony said no, but apparently, Sony and MS did work something out, because there are a couple games that allow it, and that wasn't all just on Sony.

I do agree that cross play is good for the consumer. I don't know if it's overly important for the consumer though. The issue though is that it was used as a weapon to attack Sony, which means some get defensive. Especially when the horse is beaten, brought back to life, beaten some more then ground up, burned and the ashed buried, then beaten again constantly.

[NeoGamer232]

Sony completely cried foul when XB would not cross play with them last gen.

The difference between last gen and this gen is that Sony has invested a lot to improve the security and reliability of their network so cross play is viable. Last gen Sony cried for cross play and then it wasn't long after they had the major hack down which essentially killed any credibility they had in asking for cross play.

This gen Sony is in the driver's seat and anything that gives up control of the driver's seat could allow one of the others to improve their market position. Sony is being smart and staying in the driver's seat.

Cross play is good for the consumer and allows consumers to choose their console more based on the console then on the content and friend availability to play with. It won't come into play for all consumers, but consumers that want to play with friends online and may be considering Console A or B with cross play they are able to make the choice not worrying about what their friends choose.

[rainslacker]

They cried foul? Care to link a quote? They were asked about it, they said they were open to it. I recall they said something about it when they started it on PS2 with FFXI, but beyond that, I don't remember Sony making a big deal about it, or crying foul when MS said no.

In this case, I want you to cite your source, because in all these years, no one else has ever done so.

The difference between last gen and this gen is meaningless to the discussion, because both companies have to agree. Sony isn't the only one that can say yes, and for all we know, MS has requirements that Sony isn't willing to agree to. Sony is allowing it to a small degree right now, so the two are working on it apparently, so it's not like they're absolutely against it.

It's hard to take people seriously when they say it's Sony causing the problems, when the moment there was a chance to attack Sony over it, people were. There was no consideration about how long it would take to implement on a practical level, and it was never going to happen overnight, and Sony isn't prone to promising something they don't know if they're going to actually launch.

I have nothing against cross play, and I think it's fine for the consumers. I just see a lot of people using it as something to fuel the console wars, and it got old pretty quick, filled with lots of assumption, speculation, and hyperbole.

[the worst]

Dont need cross game if u want to play with or against me BUY a playstation

[Phoenix76]

Whilst some people here keep on going on about it, no one is saying what titles they would like to see as crossplay. Funny that.