Spiders CEO: There Aren't That Many Developers Doing RPGs Anymore, Even BioWare Stopped

Spiders CEO Johanne Rousseau said she's sad that there aren't many developers doing RPGs anymore after even BioWare stopped with Anthem.

GreedFall is, thus, a passion project for Spiders.

[Juusterey]

Bioware didn't just stop
They failed

[pwnmaster3000]

Mass effect series was my favorite game for my 360. So sad to see what happened to BioWare.

Any good rpg for the PS4 by the way?

[zeal0us]

Horizon: Zero Dawn, Persona 5, Nioh,

[Miss_Vixen]

Persona 5, Undertale, Ni No Kuni 2, Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition, Tales of Berseria, Final Fantasy X|X-2 HD Remaster, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age, NieR: Automata.

[Segata]

I'm not a Digimon fan but the Cybersleuth games are excellent. They basically play like a Shin Megami Tensei game with the atmosphere of a Persona game. Speaking of,Persona 5 is excellent. Nier Automata is amazing. Undertale. Deus Ex Mankind Divided. Dragon's Dogma. Cosmic Star Herione. Assassin's Creed Odyssey. Diablo III. Victor Vran Overkill. Path of Exile. Tokyo Xanadu. Tales of Vesperia. Dragon Quest XI (tho a version with more features,content and better music is coming to Switch) Trails of Cold Steel. Ys Origin (Prequel so jump right in and it's a pure action RPG) Ys VIII. Metal Max Xeno. Dragon's Crown. Odin's Sphere. Genesis collection has come classic RPGs on it.

[SamPao]

divinity original sin 1+2

[Juusterey]

Would recommend trying disgaea too if you're into the kind of tactical rpgs

[Gamehard]

There's alot. The Witcher 3 if you haven't tried it already. If you're looking for something more traditional or jrpg, I'd say you'd have a hard time finding something better than Dragon Quest XI, or Nier Automata if you want action combat.

[Outlawzz]

The first Mass effect was my highlight of last gen, it was amazing for me story wise and gameplay was good, a little glitchy at times but good. The second one was dumbed down and then the third just completely changed the game and not in a good way, I never finished it. I Have yet to play the new one but I'm in no rush.

[raWfodog]

I've been playing "Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel - Decisive edition" since it was released last month for the PS4. It was previously released on the PS3, Vita, and ported to Windows as well. It's a great RPG and has a calendar structure similar to Persona games. Looking forward to playing the sequels.

[Larrysweet]

Dragon quest 11 persona 5 some best

[LOLcheeseORZ]

Legend of Heroes Trails of Cold Steel Series

[PlayableGamez-]

P5 and Bloodborne.
Granted they are JRPGs.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Dying Light
Fallout 4
Dragon Age: Inquisition
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Persona 5
Final Fantasy XV
Horizon: Zero Dawn
The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
Bloodborne
Mass Effect: Andromeda
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Nier: Automata
Nioh

[Fist4achin]

Maybe it that theirs kind of stunk as of lately.

[-Foxtrot]

Yeah because EA happened

[CyrusLemont]

RPG = too much value, not enough return

Unless you’re Ubisoft and everything is gated and monetised.

[Seraphim]

I don't care what people think or say. Ubi games are not RPGs. They take RPG elements and infuse them into shooters and action/adventure games. I mean if we want to get technical all games are an RPG in the sense that you "Role Play" as particular character/s.

You are right though. RPGs don't come with a large return normally. The expected sales figures are typically low. There are the exceptions like Final Fantasy and I believe Dragon Quest XI finally sold extremely well Stateside. The Witcher, Dragon Age has probable done incredibly well, Persona series should have strong sales and obviously the Elder Scrolls games. But for most RPG developers there isn't this huge sales expectation.

[KaiPow]

Just look at Japan and their Renaissance of JRPGs

[Michiel1989]

what renaissance? The've always had a ton of rpgs

[Godmars290]

Not during the PS3/360 era when chasing after HD skyrocketed costs, and "everyone" wanted FPS. It was only after that mentality died down and thing returned to semi-normal that traditional styled gaming came back.

[Michiel1989]

no, thats was not that happened. Japanese studios still created mostly rpgs, just not that many rpgs for ps3 and 360. Psvita/psp/ds/3ds/wii got a shitton of rpgs during that time.

[Godmars290]

*smacksforehead*

And were the Psvita/psp/ds/3ds/wii *HD* systems? Have JRPGs only just now begun to come back to main/HD level consoles?

[Cybermario]

glad we have japan, they keep the rpg scene strong

[Bleucrunch]

YES and I pray they never die....cause RPG' are my favorite genre..

[2pacalypsenow]

Yeah everyone is doing those retarded Battle Royales.

[NeoGamer232]

I do agree with your statement. But, at the same time RPGs have become more and more about endless grinding and how difficult they are to play.

Take me back to when RPGs were not only about managing your inventory and how many times you die before you succeed and back to strong stories that engaged me as I played the RPG.

I saw the trailer to Borderlands 3 and was loving it until they stated that it had over a billion weapons. WTF? That will probably a billion hours of grinding if you are dumb enough to go after them all.

[yoshatabi]

Billions of weapons is hella cool. I don't know what you're talking about. And who the hell would try to get all of them? That's stupid

[2pacalypsenow]

“And who the hell would try to get all of them? That's stupid”

People have beaten dark souls using a steering wheel lol

[Sirk7x]

A billion in the fact that they are generated and randomized. They didn't create a billion different weapons, that's not even possible lol

[Juusterey]

Only a few big companies did battle royale

[TheColbertinator]

Japan will cover us in the meantime with JRPG goodness while we wait for the west again.

[gangsta_red]

Isn't Bioware making Dragon Age 4?

[GtPawnSacrifices]

Pretty sure you’re right. Not to mention Elder Scrolls 6, Outer Worlds, Starfield.
& Bio Ware said “they’re not done with Mass Effect”
RPGs aren’t dead, someone’s just trying for a puff article :/

[Rachel_Alucard]

Elder scrolls is now the bare minimum of what can be called an RPG. Only Outer worlds would qualify here. Bioware and many other major publishers have been fusing the addictive parts of RPGs into different genres, instead of just making a pure RPG. DA4 is already being made as a live service, and the original DA4 was cancelled and turned into Anthem. I'm surprised Bioware is still alive after failing with Anthem and when DA4 releases with the same problems of being a live service and poorly designed I can see them going bye bye.

[Michiel1989]

Elder scrolls is still one off the games that define the rpg genre, I wouldn't call it the bare minimum. Every single player elder scrolls game has made a huge impact in the rpg genre, thing is skyrim is so old now that we haven't seen a modern Elder Scrolls game anymore. yes skyrim wasn't perfect and they did dumb it down a bit but it's still an rpg.

What they meant with DA4 being a live service is that they will continue to work on it and release more cocntent for it which doesn't mean it will necesarilly be like anthem where the game at launch is bare minimum with "the real game" being added later. They might do a big expansion like they did for 1 and 2. but most games can be called live services in this day and age because a lot will release some kind of dlc at some point, which doesn't always mean it's a rotten model. I will be very skeptic of DA4, but imo they have released 2 excellent dragon age games and 1 that was a bit below par, so I do wan't to give them the benefit of the doubt, although many devs that worked on that game don't work there anymore.
Will be interesting to follow the development of DA4 the coming years.

[Rachel_Alucard]

@michiel

Elder scrolls WAS one of those titles at one point, but you have to realize that Zenimax operates Bethesda and who they want to appeal to. If you saw who the board of directors was at Zenimax and saw the in-game economy in ESO, Elder scrolls blades, Fallout shelter, and Fallout 76 in general you'd see what kind of company they are.

I don't trust them with the phrase "live service" after seeing anthem, especially with EA around they'll find a way to ruin the experience. Fact is, the only praised Dragon age was already finished by the time EA acquired them in 2009. The company is just a factory line that lacks any creative talent and positive development cycles. I'm glad they got someone on board to finally give them direction, but that didn't happen until 5 years into production. These publishers are out of touch with fans and their own dev team it seems.

[Segata]

Each DA game has been watered down. I would not be surprised if they strip it of almost anything that made it an RPG. Mass Effect by 3 was just a TPS and no longer an RPG really. Lastly, do we care anymore? They keep getting worse at making games. DA4 will very likely be another huge letdown. DAI sure wasn't that good. Average at best.

[Jorgeb93]

CD Projekt Red is our savior

[Dreamcatcher45]

Pretty much the only western rpg developer left worthy of its name.

[SamPao]

dude, larian studios...

[Tapani]

I'd put Larian studios over CD Projekt Red. Witcher 3 was horrible from RPG perspective (story, inventory system, characters, pacing, it did nothing to take the genre further to new heights, except an open world which was monotonous and largely unrelated to the main story.) Larian on the other hand pushes the genre further with each Original Sin game (multiple dialogue options, aoe effects that truly matter, complex and funny story / dialogue, open-ended gameplay etc.)

I'm keeping a close watch for the Mutant Year Zero developer, they look like they know what they are doing. Going to grab that enhanced edition with DLC during summer.

[Segata]

Meanwhile, Falcom never stopped and has been doing it longer than any studio in existence. 35 years of RPGs and basically created the Action RPG Genre. A new Ys is coming out and Trails of Cold Steel III this year.

[raWfodog]

Yeah I just started with Trails of Cold Steel - Decisive edition in March and I'm loving it. Looking forward to getting ToCS II - Relentless Edition at the end of May.

[rainslacker]

Falcom is one of my long time favorite developers. The original Ys1&2 on TGCD is still my favorite game of all time. Playing Ys Origin right now, and love how they keep the feel of the original while changing up the game play across different games.

[Christopher]

Eh?

Pathfinder Kingmaker
Divinity Original Sin 2
Pillars of Eternity Dead fire
Assassin's Creed Odyssey
Sekiro
Fallout 76
Kingdom Hearts 3
Anthem
God Eater 3

Upcoming:
Biomutant
Cyberpunk
Vampire Bloodlines 2
Code Vein
Shenmue 3
Wasteland 3
The Outer Worlds
The Surge 2
Torchlight Frontiers

And I'm ignoring tons of earlier releases and tons of Japanese games here.

[Imortus_san]

Anthem and Sekiro an RPG LMAO.

[Double_O_Revan]

And Fallout 76......

[Michiel1989]

I dont think anthem is an rpg either but if we look back, "looter" games (diablo, dungeon siege etc) were called action rpg's back in the day. Destiny/Anthem/Division are basically diffferent versions of those games, with a diffferent playing perspective and in the case of Anthem or in the case of personal taste some are/can be called very poorly executed. I don't think it's too far fetched to call Anthem an rpg, since you still build your charcacter (very poorly buildup in this case, but thats not my point).

I haven't played sekiro yet but if aquiring power is the same way as in Dark Souls, I would definitely call it an rpg. Certainly not a traditional rpg, but an rpg for sure.

Edit:"
The term rpg is used so widely now, for example some call final fantasy tactics, advance wars, disgaea and games alike tactics rpg, some call them just "tactic" games. I don't think any of them are wrong, because in those games there is still the main objective of growing your character(s). Some people think the only requirement for an rpg is improoving your character, some think its a good story where you feel immersed and some think it needs to be both in order to be an rpg.

[Imortus_san]

@Michiel1989
Just because a game can level up your char or improve weapons or stats doesn't make it an RPG, if that was all that it took to call games RPG then most games would be RPG, those games have nothing to do with RPG's, they are just Online TPS / FPS with some options to level up nothing more, just like Assassin's Creed is a TPA Adventure Game.

[Christopher]

***Just because a game can level up your char or improve weapons or stats doesn't make it an RPG***

Key elements to an RPG:

1. Skill/ability leveling up/improvement
2. Equipment/customization
3. Story
4. Quests

All of the above are RPGs. They might not be good stories or "as RPG" as others, but they are RPGs.

Are we saying that RPGs are just one thing and not another, because I'm fairly certain Dragon Age: Origins, definitely an RPG, play vastly different than Baldur's Gate, also definitely an RPG.

You folks might not want to consider something an RPG because it's more action-y than another or more linear or has a story that is presented differently, but that doesn't change what it is. Anthem is as much an RPG as Elder Scrolls Online, just, IMHO, not as good of a game as ESO.

[MadLad]

@christopher

You're missing key elements, and these are the sort Spiders lists as lacking in my of today's rpgs, such as varying dialogue options; especially ones affected by class/personality, and player agency within the world that can be tailored to the sort of character you're playing.

Everything you listed are indeed elements of a proper rpg, but these are the fundamentals on which the rpg was born. A shining example as to why ESO is a stronger rpg when compared to anthem.

[Imortus_san]

Anthem is a MMO not and RPG.

[Christopher]

RPGs can exist online... MMO doesn't designate gameplay but online presence and quantity of players. Most MMOs are MMORPGs... Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Games. LIke WoW, EQ2, and even Anthem. You can argue the other two are better RPGs, but Anthem is also an RPG (classes, leveling up, customization, equipment, story, etc.).

I personally wouldn't put Anthem into the MMO sphere as it isn't possible to run into more than 3 others in the game world unless you're in the gamehub unlike most MMOs where there are many areas to run into others let alone interact with them directly or indirectly. It might be updated like one, but it's not really Massive as far as players in a single instance or affecting the world at once.

[Razzer]

Anthem is not an MMO. I've played the game alone.

[yoshatabi]

Wow. How do you not mention borderlands

[TheGamez100]

Lol just stop. Many rpgs are still being made especially in japan. Other genres are taking many elements from rpgs into their games classifying even their games as an rpg. I mean sekiro and division 2 just released awhile ago and succeeded very well. Mmorpgs still go very strong. I mean even battle royales and god forbid....FREAKING popular MOBILE games have rpg elements or are rpg themselves....

We got big ones like cyberpunk 2077, borderlands 3, ff7r, nioh 2, pokemon, elder scrolls 6, new dbz rpg, smt v, fire emblem three houses, rune factory 5, project re fantasy, trails of cold steel 3, granblue ps4, project awakening, persona 5 royal & scramble, mhw iceborne. Huge successes goty/contender like god of war ps4, botw, ac Odyssey, horizen, nier automota, yakuza, witcher 3 AND not to mention the hundreds of rpgs that jp devs and indies bring out. Etc etc etc.

Lol yea...no more devs doing rpgs anymore. Its probably just the screwed up rpgs like anthem and fallout 76, and battle royales trend you're paying attention to. Please just gtfo.

[KillZallthebeast]

Just because bethesda and bioware imploded in on themselves like a dying star doesn't mean rpgs are a rarity. There's still quite a few being made yearly like numerous people have already mentioned.

[Imortus_san]

The old RPG genre is dead for years there are hardly any games like the old times, every company just tries to make open world hack and slash games with Rpg elements in it, I just hate it, I was glad I forked 115€ for an used switch, Octopath Traveler was really fun, only 7 endings to go.

[SamPao]

you should play divinity original sin 1+2, I am still playing 1 (72h in) but 2 is said to be even better

[Imortus_san]

I already tested Divinity Original Sin, I dont like it, nor the grafics nor the gameplay.

[SamPao]

well that is a game like the old times :P

[Razzer]

"there are hardly any games like the old times"

Not on console maybe.

[chris235]

designing rpgs is a whole lot of work if you want to do it right. publishers prefer to invest in games that are designed around grind/lootershooters. this is much easier to achieve and yields much more money with microtransactions. what would YOU do? would you take the risk of developping something unique or would you go the route of a cashgrab?

[SamPao]

there are a lot of great RPGs out there that are doing great sales wise

[Godmars290]

Because while any potentially good one requires more creative effort and resources, its not as likely to make more than something with online multiplayer and - excessive - monetizations.

[Gamist2dot0]

I'm still hanging on to Bloodborne 2 even if it never comes.

[FanboysKiller]

But the fanbase is huge, there must be game devs within those fans.

[MWH]

if Dragon Age 4 fail, and i hope it doesn't, it will be the last nail in Bioware's coffin for me. I'm willing to give them this one last chance.

[Bleucrunch]

"There aren't that many developers making RPG's" a terribly misinformed and misguided quote. I am happy they are working on an RPG, but maaaaan is that an arrogant thing to say. Furthermore, stating because Bioware supposedly stopped making RPG's (a falsehood) means that the RPG market is dead??? Oh PALEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!

Pure nonsense from this lady...bugging out and attention seeking if you ask me. Just make your game to best of your ability and let that work speak for itself.

[Goldenarmz]

Whats funny is the one style of game that fits the DLC mindset is RPG, but people have stopped making them. Imagine a 60 hour RPG and then you can add multiple expansions to it over time. But no, lets make 10 diff shooters and battle royales. Peoples attention span is far too short these days.

[MadLad]

They're not wrong. As janky as they are, Spiders games are fantastic rpgs and only improve with every release.
Very similar to CDPR.

Bioware only seems to sink lower and lower.
Very similar to Bethesda.

[Furesis]

They are just trying to sell their game by saying this. Pretty obvious actually seeing how many RPG's there actually are.
"Hey there's not any RPG's guys but guess what? We got one right here. ehh, ehh..? no one?..ok..."

[dolfa]

They failed to evolve.

[AizenSosuke]

RPGs are necessary, poor Bioware they died like Ghosts in MW2

[rataranian]

Meanwhile in Japan...

[MadLad]

There's a very large difference in the fundamentals of a traditional western RPG, and a traditional eastern rpg.

[Casepb]

Horizon Zero Dawn is as much of an RPG as Zelda is... they both are not...

[cheeko]

*ahem* god of war *ahem* spiderman ;) *ahem* anthem *ahem*

[Juusterey]

*ahem* fortnite *ahem* mortal kombat

[MadLad]

Those aren't rpgs.

[brettbatley]

Very excited to see how GreedFall turns out. Technomancer was a bit of a dud

[MadLad]

Spiders is a company that gets better and better with time. They're a small developer with a small budget.
That said, there's a noticeable bump in quality with every release.

[BlaqMagiq1]

Japan saving the RPG scene. Loving the JRPG renaissance.

[Thundercat77]

I am glad we have Japan. Western devs are mostly about MTs, Battle Royale and GaaS.

It was Japan who revived the gaming industry after it crashed because of the westerns. It is Japan who is going to hold it healthy while western devs swim on their greedy practices.

[pleasuretokill]

Much easier to develop mobile microtransaction-fest crappers and rake in that cash. Can't say I blame em. It's all about that money, I'd do the same thing. Who cares what some whiny kids think? Do less work, make more green. Who wants to work harder for less money? Not me.

[MadLad]

Why are so many people bringing up JRPGs? Sure, they are rpgs ... but that's not what he's talking about here.
He's speaking of traditional western rpg mechanics like many choices in dialogue in order to roleplay, player agency depending on the class and personality of your character.

These aren't typical mechanics found in eastern rpgs.