Google Stadia – a worryingly nebulous concept likely to go the way of VR

The future now?

[porkChop]

VR hasn't gone anywhere, it's still here. So what point are you making?

[Liam2382]

VR is here (as I make clear in the article), but it's far from mainstream. I'm suggesting Stadia will have similar issues I.e. it will do ok, but will fall well short of true mainstream success

[ApocalypseShadow]

I get the comparison.Not comparable.

One requires more hardware for specific hardware to buy and it's not inexpensive. The other; a subscription streaming model, no hardware. They are using already existing successful products they don't own to create possible success. Wouldn't be so easy if they had to start from scratch like the rest of the companies who built the TVs, tablets, phones, etc. Just like Netflix. If Netflix had to build their own hardware, they may not be in the position they are now riding on top of someone else's successful products.

VR was expected to do well. But Sony, Oculus and Valve said it was a slow burn that will take time and have been interviewed saying such. The mass media expected VR to blow up like some viral video or overnight sensation like the Wii that doesn't apply to technology that improves over years. Every other product took years to get better, took years to come down in price. But those without common sense can't see that. They believe the current Iphone like success was just always there and there was no such thing as a suitcase or brick phone.

And we see what happened to fads like the Wii. They're no longer around. VR companies don't want it to be a fad, but a useful technology for educating, constructing, entertaining, selling products like houses, healing the sick with phobias or PTSD,etc. Wii may have gotten old folks to move, but it's expansion was no where near what VR is trying to achieve.

Also, it's not a "nightmare" to use VR. PSVR takes all but 10 to 15 minutes to set up and do IPD for the eyes. If you already know how to set up your game console to play on a TV, you can set up VR. Unless that person lacks intelligence.

The upcoming stand alone headsets like Oculus Quest will remove almost all of what you're trying to imply is hard to do. Remember? That improving over time thing? In less than 5 years, we're already at wireless solutions.

Besides dabbling in using VR, do you even OWN one? I didn't see that in the article.

[porkChop]

VR has the issue of high entry fee. At least with Stadia if you have 25mbps, stable, you can stream 1080p currently. I'd argue most people already have that type of connection. I believe Phil Harrison has said that by launch Google is shooting for 4K at only around 30-35 mbps. That's not unreasonable.

So it already has a better chance than VR because it doesn't have the huge entry fee, and many people already have suitable internet to at least try it out.

Pricing hasn't been announced, but we're likely looking at only $5-$10 per month, plus buying the games.

Stadia will likely do just fine.

[sampsonon]

psvr has sold over 3 million head sets and 20 million games and counting. it's not going anywhere, and it's only going to get bigger because Sony is committed to making new games all the time.

the headline is misleading and should be changed.

[tontontam0]

I'm pretty sure oculus quest will make that possible.

I'd buy the quest for beat saber alone. bash me all you want I like to waste my money on that piece of shit just to play beat saber on the go.

[DVAcme]

@porkChop Where do you live, South Korea I can ASSURE YOU that most people do NOT have either that speed or enough stability.

[boing1]

Ignorant headline not worth the click.

[RauLeCreuset]

VR isn't expected to be mainstream this soon. It's just a bad comparison. VR isn't a nebulous concept. It's a proven concept, but the experience is hard to convey without having people try it. It has a relatively high cost of entry. Some people will be turned off by having to wear a headset or being tethered by the wires. Games have to be made enable it. Great and growing tech, but those are the barriers. So saying it's going to go the way of VR comes off like an implicit knock on VR and ignorant of the trajectory of VR.

[rainslacker]

Vr is slowly growing, and while it'll probably never be the mainstream, it's not going to continue being niche forever. There is too much effort involved in making it a thing by too many big companies.

[shinobix]

VR is here and is growing, so what is your point?

[Dom_Estos]

So what you're saying is that something has to sell hundreds of millions for it to be considered a "mainstream" success? Absolute rubbish. Do you know that the videogame industry started out as a niche, and wasn't considered "mainstream" even from and to the mid 90's? You could say that it took the industry almost 20 years to adjust and recover from the collapse in 1983, and now look at it.

Gone the way of VR? Do you believe that the current state of VR is its final form, and that it won't improve and grow further? Ridiculous article, once again, seemingly trying to be too clever and prophetic about VR's supposed demise. The ironic thing, and something you would have done well to touch upon, is that perhaps one day VR and cloud based streaming services like Stadia will be one and the same, with one not being able to exist without the other, which is far more likely to be the case once the two are ready. We're already seeing untethered mobile VR devices like the Quest. It's an inevitability.

[Wrex369]

You'll have people here who actually invested anywhere from 400-700 on vr so of course they're going to defend it lmao

Edit: but I agree, I don't think Stadia will make it past a funny little niche

[Steppenwolfmother]

What’s the time limit for “true mainstream success”?

[KickSpinFilter]

No one ever claimed that the 1st consumer gen of V.R. would go mainstream. Look at it this way, Blackberry was like the 1st gen of smartphones hardly anyone had those. PSVR and the like is just a matter of time. Streaming games on the other hand will become mainstream, sooner than you think it may not be Google or MS but it’s coming just like music or even more of an extent movies did.

[anonymousfan]

I absolutely agree VR is not going anywhere whether it becomes AR more than VR or whatever else... The tech is too good to go anywhere. I do think it has a slow adoption though and that is probably due to the price point which keeps dropping anyway so yeah... The comparison of Stadia with VR is kinda silly.

[paintedgamer1984]

As soon as psvr goes wireless and more user friendly... it will be much more successful

[Casepb]

@paintedgamer1984 That's what the Oculus Quest is.

[sampsonon]

i know lol. VR is amazing!
i bought a psvr and family and i love it. Sony has great games and more on the way.

this writer is on drugs

[gamer7804]

probably that its niche, and not taking over the way the way gamers prefer to play. Even though VR requires extra hardware and stadia does not, they both have severe limitations and likely to remain niche for a long time to come. I imagine stadia sticking around for a while for a niche market, then fading away like google+

[rainslacker]

A subscription service can't remain without subs. A hardware product like vr can remain if it gets the software sales to supplement those sales, and it only needs to break that install base threshold. Ongoing costs to maintain a service, paying for content is much different than singular costs in making the hardware and selling it Where revenue can be made after the fact.

If Google or any of these services remain niche for too long, they won't be able to sustain the costs of running the service, or licensing content to put on it

[Cobra951]

Read the first paragraph of the article. The author has a very good grip on its reality.

[ps5fanboy]

stealth trolling v.r , because the poohbox does not plan on including it , in its poobox future??

[NXFather]

He trying to say that neither will be a huge success assuming stadia has some relevant success.

[Liam2382]

I think you wildly overestimate how many people have that kind of internet speed. In places like the UK and US, I'm guessing the average is far lower. What you will be looking at is an inconsistent service that won't be able to deliver the promise of 4k gaming to the majority of punters.

[porkChop]

When I say most people I'm talking about the average gamer, not just the average person.

But according to Speedtest.net in 2018 the average Canadian user had a speed of 76mbps down/25mbps up, while in the USA the average user had a speed of around 95mbps down/32mbps up.

Gamers are far more tech oriented and are more likely to be in the mid to high-end of the spectrum. So again, I'd argue that most people have a suitable connection. Not everyone, obviously. But most probably do.

[SegaGamer]

Speedtest doesn't prove much though, that is just people using the site and testing their internet speed. The actual average download speed in the US is 20mbps, which is nowhere near enough for streaming gameplay.

Here in the UK, the averages are higher, but just under half is on ADSL connection, so that is just under half of the UK getting 20mbps at best.

[unjust75]

Most? Thats still a lot of gamers. Most general gamers have good internet, but how many are hardwired. I bet many use wifi, which speeds vary, with that in mind. Picture a house where 3 to 5 people are all using wifi at once. Stadia says 25 for download speed. Even if you have the top of the line internet speed thats a hefty chuck when others could be streaming or downloading. True hardcore gamers wouldn’t buy a streaming service anyway because they generally play competitively and this serves no purpose to them. So Stadia is aiming for a casual to regular gaming crowd.

[Cobra951]

95 mbps average? What fantasy world did that stat come from? Most people in the US are lucky to get a fifth of that, and many are way below broadband standards.

[nirwanda]

@segagamer I'm in the uk, and I honestly don't know anyone who isn't on ADSL/cable even my unkle who lives in the middle of nowhere has it and the prices are practically the same as non fiber broadband, can you honestly think of anyone who doesn't have a broadband connection under 20/15meg down.

[Nitrowolf2]

That average is bumped up when you have a decent amount of people having 1gbp speeds/and speed testing with their mobile phones which can get up to 150mbps at times, which lets no include that as they’re restricted connection with NAT 3, good luck gaming on that

That average is moot when you consider those things

And again, the us internet infrastructure is almost entirely made of copper wiring, wiring that hasn’t been updated in ages and runs on a shared mode network, meaning a guy from living on the other side of the neighbor hood could be eating up all the speed

[Imalwaysright]

The gamers you're talking about won't care much about this service.

[Rude-ro]

Those speed tests only do what they are suppose to... show you what you should be getting from providers...
Everyone gets throttled.. more now then ever.
My internet runs worse now while paying for the best possible internet over 5 years ago playing on the cheapest internet available or leaching off a unsecured WiFi.

[CDbiggen]

Sometimes I barely get 1080p Netflix.

[shinobix]

"During Q2-Q3 2018, the average download speed over fixed broadband in the U.S. was 95.25 Mbps. Average upload speed was 32.88 Mbps."

https://www.speedtest.net/r...

[Liam2382]

When I criticise VR, it is again from that mainstream perspective. It's impressive technology, but it is cumbersome. It's also oddly intrusive. It's fun as an experience, but I'm convinced that most people don't want to use technology on a regular basis that totally blocks out the rest of the world. I don't mind playing a video game when my wife is in the room, but VR is a different beast. I wouldn't sit there with that on my head with anyone else in the room.

[sampsonon]

my friends and family play PSVR and have a blast.
you do know that PSVR allows others to watch what the player is doing on a tv, right?

cumbersome? everything is set up and all i need to do is switch to vr to play which takes the same amount of time as any other gaming session to set up.

have you ever played PSVR?

[Cobra951]

That's it, exactly. VR will always be niche, until they sreamline the gadgetry so you look like a cool guy with shades and earbuds, instead of some geeky monstrosity from a bad Flash Gordon movie.

[rainslacker]

Most people dont play video games either. So does that mean that gaming isn't mainstream, or that those markets have their own definition of mainstream?

Whi are these services aimed at? The hardcore gamer? Unlikely, because the hardcore prefers not to game on streaming based on what they say about these services. It's really just the rampant xbox fan boys that go around saying ms will do it right, but that's just console war bs, and everyone else just games where they already game. The game being presented in these streaming service are hardcore games the service is being marketed at the casual. Mobile phones, tablets, and chrome book. Who games on those? Its casuals. Vr right now, outside a couple mobile options, is primarily aimed at the hardcore gamer. They're the ones likely to buy into it.

Applying streaming paradigms to the hardcore or moderate gaming market is trying to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist, and its misappropriating a market ti make a new one. There will be some overlap, and maybe even some attrition, but the two technologies exist independently of one another, and will fail or succeed on their own without any need to try and correlate the two.

[Fluttershy77]

I can see what you mean. Your wife could take advantage of that moment of weakness and strike... I wouldn't use VR with mine in the room either.

[akbennyewu]

How dare you have any view that is perceived to diminish the value of VR.

[KickSpinFilter]

I have a cumbersome 1st gen product to sell you that was not a mainstream product that later on with different Iterations went on to sell millions and millions of them. A BlackBerry “smart” phone! Remind me how many iPhones are in the world now?
Folks used to Poopoo the wheel too.
Tech marches on without you don’t be so naïve.

[timotim]

In before someone tries to tell you how good VR is doi....darn!

[Ricegum]

And here you are, putting down VR because you can't use it on your Xbox One. Shame.

[akbennyewu]

And here you are, unreasonably mad that someone doesn't like VR as much as you. Why do you care?

[Razzer]

lol.....because you have extensive experience using VR, right?

[T2X]

Worryingly nebulous? Not remotely. Go the way of vr? What??? Incorrect .

[alittleshakey]

VR is the future! Never had so much fun as I've had with Beat Sabers and Astro Bot!

[ps5fanboy]

the way of v.r? exciting , growing future gaming platform to one day (ready player 1), i imagine , put all other platforming to rest? i doubt it...

[Cobra951]

Love it how everyone sees the slightest negativity toward VR, then jumps in here to rant about that, and ignore the real subject of the article.

The author's proposition is that, like VR, Stadia may remain a niche product. He reasons that the technology leaves far too many unanswered questions and concerns, and that people on the internet will fill in the gaps, perhaps none too favorably. Infrastructure is a big issue, as is latency (which will remain an issue even where the infrastructure is good). Pricing is a question mark. Games available and exclusive are unknown. Google have a long road to hoe, and even with their clout, their efforts to change the gaming world so suddenly may have the same effect as the Xbox One launch.

[mkis007]

Do you believe that we will be playing video games the same way forever? Do you believe VR has no future outside of just gaming? It is a niche product now, but so were TV's, Computers, and video game consoles at the time they became available to purchase. You know why MS is at the head of Computer Software today? Because they got in on the ground floor when it was just beginning. Look how far google has come from the days of just being a search engine. The Early bird gets the worm.

[xYLeinen]

Not if it works as advertised. And VR is apparently doing just fine.

[Razuel]

So.. an outstanding success, and will hit the masses as soon a decent headset msrp's $150-200.

[TheGamingArt]

It’s not just price, it’s potential market penetration. VR in it’s current state only has around 1% potential market penetration which is awful.

[Razuel]

Stadia might work if they offer a deal with isp's so that anyone could use their high bandwidth service.

[Liam2382]

Ok, I've clearly hit a nerve on the whole VR thing. Just yo be clear, VR is great, but if you think it's doing great, you're out of your mind. Outside of the hardcore gaming crowd, I literally know nobody who owns VR. And as for not being cumbersome....come on. It'll be genuinely user friendly one day, and yes, it might go genuinely mainstream, but VR is a long way from that. Stadia will have the same issues. Something just like it will hit big in like 6 years, but again, not now.

[RauLeCreuset]

It isn't expected to be doing "great" right now, in the sense of being mainstream. That's what you're not understanding. VR isn't mainstream for very different reasons than if Stadia were to fail. And there is a very clear negative implication in saying "go the way of VR." That suggests you are ignorant of the expectations that exist for the growth of VR and the expectations that exist for Stadia. Sometimes it's less about having hit a nerve and more about ignoring multiple people explaining why you're wrong to double down on a flawed argument.

[uth11]

VR was never expected to be a smash runaway hit day one. look how long early game consoles took to gain traction and go mainstream. it takes time for attitudes towards new tech to change.

Oculus Quest releases soon, that promises decent VR quality without the need for an expensive PC or console to run it. That could help it go more mainstream.

It hit a nerve because people have seemed eager to declare VR dead and buried before the current headsets even arrived

[amazinglover]

Just because you know no one that uses VR does not mean its not doing good. None of my friends play Apex legends should I call that a failure as well since I don't know any one who personally play it. Also VR has a huge market outside of gaming. People aren't attacking the article because they love VR they are against it because it is poorly researched and thought out.

[AK91]

That’s like comparing apples and oranges

[m2stech]

VR was never meant to replace mainstream games, and so is Cloud gaming, it's called a niche market.

[StormSnooper]

VR is doing great. Google can go to hell though.

[Tross]

Ummm...no. I doubt the Stadia will get anywhere near the sales figures of PS VR.

[rainslacker]

Last year sometime, it was reported that psvr alone sold 20 million units of software. That would be 3 years into its life IIRC. Will Google sell that many units? Are they even going to sell software? What's considered a success and what's a failure? Why are two completely different technologies, with their own distinct markets being compared?

Many questions which seem more obvious to ask before saying that one or both are or will fail.

[tontontam0]

If the rumor is true that stadia service will be free no monthly payments you just have to buy the games.

Stadia will be full of half assed $1-$10 games to make it easier for google to charge people.

I am also afraid that I think stadia will be a DLC platform, it is now easier for the dev to release half finished games and sell it for $20 or something and if nobody took interest just stop the development and leave those who bought the game hanging.

[jznrpg]

I love VR but I hate streaming .

[Liam2382]

Wait, everyone seems to suggest VR is doing great? Hasn't PS VR sold less than 5 million units? To put that in to context, Kinect sold nearly 30 million?

[RauLeCreuset]

And where is it now? That's the difference between a gimmick or fad and something that has sustained growth over a number of years. Come on. Your headline isn't the hill to die on. No need to double down on it by resorting to more silly arguments.

P.S. If the conversation on your article is more on the headline than the points you were trying to make about Stadia in your article, that's a good sign you chose a bad headline.

[rainslacker]

Vr has surpassed the expectations of the companies that made them. Its surpassed the expectations of most of the media at the time if its release. Its surpassed most people in the communities expectations. It's been seen as viable by many companies, investors developers, and gamers.

Just because you put your own random expectation of success or failure on the product, doesn't mean that that is what reality represents anymore than people who say that fortnite is failing because they went from something like 20 million players to 10 million players when Apex legends released.

Anyone that thought it had to sell console numbers to be successful is an idiot. Anyone who thinks that it had to have a significant portion of the user base using it to be successful, is an idiot. Same way people say a game failed because it only sold to 5% of the user base instead if 10%.

I'd be surprised if Google hits vr numbers in their first couple years. But based on what I see Google and MS saying, they seem to think that it's going to be a raging success, when most in the community seem apprehensive about its potential

[JesusBuiltmyHotrod]

Vr is only getting bigger over time....right off the bat another clueless article. Vr is going to be a thing even if ot does not blow up in gaming...

[Liam2382]

Clueless article? I said VR will continue to sell millions, simply that it will fail to become a genuinely mainstream product for quite some time. Same with Stadia. Both will probably get there in time, but right now, the tech isn't there for genuine mainstream appeal.

[Veneno]

It's looking like as of now Stadias niche will be in a 2nd tier of platform holder but being fair they have not shown their full deck of cards. They have yet to show us the games but without information we Cant be blamed for speculating. Tiers are as follows:

1st tier: Sony, Nintendo, Valve/Steam, and Sega(when they were a platform). Characterized by a company whose foundation and vision is to create gaming as a pillar of entertainment and art like any other artform and also distribute games as a business.

2nd: Microsoft, Epic, Google/Stadia. Characterized by foremost seeing games as a business first and enhancing experiences through accessablity. Trend chasing is preferred over developing the games themselves. Acquiring talent through business agressive means rather than mutual respect.There's nothing necessarily inherently evil here, it's just 2nd tier because it benefits the end gamer less.

3rd: Mobile gaming/ Android/ IOS. Ouya. Most GAAS games have these characteristics as well. Characterized by looking at games only as a business and putting out incomplete games to sell you the rest of it later. Shovelware. Casual games polluted with microtransactions.

[Silly gameAr]

Anything to throw VR under the bus, hey?

[XxINFERNUSxX]

Don't care for VR don't care for Stadia. Both should just fade away.....

[akbennyewu]

Here comes VR Principal.

Did you just disparage a whole class of people based on their unreasonable defense of all things VR bro?

[Razzer]

"unreasonable defense of all things VR bro"

lol....what? So people who love VR and defend VR are unreasonable? Right....cuz that is a "reasonable" assertion, somehow? You don't like it so no one else can.....reasonably. hilarious

[akbennyewu]

No, just the people (such as yourself) that decided to read way to much into the headline of the article and immediately grabbed their torch and pitchfork, many of which didn't read through article (some even admittedly, tl:dr).

Thanks for proving my point.

[Razzer]

lol....actually I guess I did prove your point that some didn't read the article. Because you are among the "some". You haven't said one thing about the contents of the article. You are just yapping about VR. You are yapping at about one dude being "unreasonably mad" at timotim and then yapping overall about "unreasonable defense" of VR. Were you ever going to say a thing about the article contents or are you just a hypocrite spouting bullshit? You might want to not pat yourself on the back so quick there, pal.

[akbennyewu]

Razzer,

Are you changing the subject back to me because you know you are wrong and defenseless?

Or are you still having trouble seeing while blindly defending your tech?

[Razzer]

lol.....says the guy turned the subject into anyone who defends VR.

"Or are you still having trouble seeing while blindly defending your tech?"

See what I mean? And I guess stating something as "wrong and defenseless" is actually an argument in your mind, huh?

[akbennyewu]

Razzer,

One can quickly read from the top of the comments on down how consistently people including yourself we're quick to shame the article for comparing the new Stadia tech to VR, but feel free to yet again blindly sift through every single comment that supports my statement, and scroll on down here to leave some stupid comment on why you think I'm wrong.

Again, thank you so much for proving my point.

[Razzer]

lol....hilarious. You keep saying shit like I'm "quick to shame" the article or grabbing "torch and pitchfork".

Guess what, Einstein. Not once did I say anything negative about the article at all. So while you are patting on yourself on the back constantly for having your point "proven", why don't you actually make sure your point is accurate. Cuz....it is not.

People can certainly argue against the comparison of VR to Stadia for many different reasons. Why you have such a problem with that....I have no idea other than to look at your Xbox centric post history and then it becomes quite clear. Seriously, your obsession with talking shit about VR is absolutely amusing.

[insert idiotic proclamation of self-congratulation here]

lol

[akbennyewu]

Nice research of my profile and yet you can't be bothered to read the original article?

What lengths you go to avoid the truth!!!

Hahahahahahahhahahaha.

[Razzer]

lol....of course I read the article. And no idea where you are getting this nonsense. More shit you just made up. Avoiding the truth. How ironic

[sampsonon]

this guys on drugs? VR is alive and thriving.
I'm starting to think google is giving all these sites some large $$$$.

Stadia - sony
Stadia- is this a problem for sony?
Sradia - can sony compete?
Stadia - the future of gaming!
Stadia - BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!

when the ps5 comes out it will destroy everyone because Sony is the only one that is going against this bullshiiit grain, doing what they do, by making the fuking best Single player games. and why do you think it sold 100 million? because of some stupid streaming?

wake up folks, the next war against the consumer has started.
and it will be up to sony, one again, to save the day.

now excuse me while i get back to FIREWALL: ZERO HOUR.

[ibrake4naps]

Sounds good. You can enjoy VR, there's good VR, but plenty of non-VR to enjoy. Sounds like the way it should be.

[trouble_bubble]

For the same price I’d rather grab a VR.

[Steppenwolfmother]

So your point is that Stadia, like VR is not going to be a massive mainstream success the day it launches and that’s bad?
These 2 things are not remotely alike and thus should not really be compared to each other. One is peripheral one is a service. How do you demo Stadia? They offer a free trial period or something. Everyone has a phone or pc they can try it on. No one is expecting 20million people to sign up day one, but I really think you are completely underestimating this whole thing

[Einhander1971]

Give me VR over stadia any day of the week. Hopefully stadia won’t amount to anything.

[jairusmonillas]

Streaming will always be just an option and will never be mainstream gaming.
It will be similar to the likes of motion control, VR.
The only reason it's getting a little bit of hype is because giant corporations like Google and Microsoft has alot of sponsored social accounts that goes praising and saying positive things about it. Well it's their money but making fake opinions out of thin air isn't going to help the pathetic streaming as mainline gaming. That's just a sad pipeline dream just like when Google thought they could replace Facebook with Google Plus and Microsoft thought they could be mobile phone giants by acquiring Nokia.

[fonduktoe]

This is a terribly written article.