Hennig: "Things are clearly not working the way they used to"

Uncharted creative director says mass layoffs a red flag that AAA development must change, shift to outsourcing "feels inevitable".

[-Foxtrot]

" In fact, she may never return to that scale of game development again"

That's awful to hear, her talents will be wasted.

[annoyedgamer]

They can still be done with less money. New technologies and engines like Unity are free to use. Big dog publishers should not be needed to make games that aren't sidescrollers. She should commandeer a startup that uses Unity or Cryengine and start making a game.

[Twignberries]

Not entirely accurate. Technologies like Unity and such, are only free until you're making money off what you've created from it. How else do you think company's like this make their money?

[AnthonyDavis]

Games need to be $70 $80

[annoyedgamer]

@Twignnerries

So what is the issue? The upfront cost is one less barrier for a company with limited funds to start making a game.

[Jin_Sakai]

“Games need to be $70 $80”

No they don’t. Take most of Sony exclusives for example, they are made on moderate budgets and usually make the cost of development back within a very short period of time. If you make great games you’ll be fine.

[Emme]

Writing is not the same as making a game.

[Knushwood Butt]

It's the same as everything else; trying to maximise utilization of your resources on something that is seen to be a high level goal.

[madpuppy]

AnthonyDavis "Games need to be $70 $80"

Your out of your mind, That pricing will kill the industry, The 60.00 dollar retail price isn't something that the industry just pulled out of a hat! There is market research done by every publisher , developer and console maker that came to that number. that is as much as you will be able to initially squeeze out of the average gaming consumer before they just wont purchase your game (with a few exceptions). or wait for a deep discount.

Personally, I almost NEVER pay full retail for a game if I can avoid it, because i'm a consumer first. as for the poor, underpaid developers and publishers...Profits from the gaming industry are more than the Movie and music industry COMBINED. don't fall for these whiners that cry poor, at the same time earn 6 plus figure salaries. I know that their are exceptions,and that is the fault of greedy publishers/developers not paying their devs right, not from a lack of money.

[CyrusLemont]

I don't know if it's possible, but could these highly experienced devs just churn out some cheap F2P micro-transaction filled mobile titles to help fund their AAA titles? These mobile games these days make $$$, and the passion from people like Hennig has me convinced they could make them, and not be corrupted by its income.

[sprinterboy]

I somewhat agree, I hate mobile games and never play them but I see where your coming from.

[ninsigma]

I don't understand why they don't just do that. If they take out MTs from their AAA games so that gamers will be happy and will get more people on board your game and then make mobile games with MTs to get your extra income. Maybe that's not sustainable, I don't know.

[Old McGroin]

"don't know if it's possible, but could these highly experienced devs just churn out some cheap F2P micro-transaction filled mobile titles to help fund their AAA titles?"

Good idea but look at the back lash Diablo Immortals caused. They could risk losing a portion of their audience this way.

[No Way]

Because everyone complains when a company announces a mobile game. Just look at Blizzard and Diablo.

[MoshA]

Neil Druckmann took over and infested future Naughty dog games with SJW propaganda. You will soon watch them die like Bioware did.

[coolbeans]

Do you mean creatively or financially? In either case: lol yeah right.

Nevermind the $$$ ND's raked up from TLOU (Tremendous New IP success) and Uncharted 4's phenomenal sales. Some of ND's most thematically interesting work has come out since then too.

[Teflon02]

I love that anything a company does thesse days has to be sjw pandering...

[DoubleYourDose]

SJW, SJW, SJW! The world you live in must scare the hell out of you.

[Zeref]

White males are so uncomfortable seeing females and minorities in lead roles.

[shinoff2183]

Please they will still make some of the best games available,

[opc]

This guy apparently likes social injustices.

[Flewid638]

Still waiting. lol.

[JackBNimble]

Zeref
That's a lie , white males are not the worlds problem.
But I am sure if a white Male said what you just said about any other race , there would an up roar .

Thanks for the racial slur.... people like you are the problem.

[nucky64]

mosha - if ND is even showing signs of "dying" - they sure are hiding it well. LoU2 is coming and it looks as good, if not better than anything they've ever done. plus, they're a sony-owned dev house. i really doubt your prediction is going to happen.

[CaptainObvious878]

I hate Neil's pro feminist position as much as the next decent person that believes in actual real equality, but I can't deny the man's very talented and has crafted some of the best games this generation.

Sure, he might sprinkle in some inter sectional feminism in his games, but the main themes and characters he relies on are usually stuff we can all empathise with.

[rainslacker]

I think companies just need to find better ways to make games. Outsourcing is certainly an option, and is heavily used nowadays because its cheaper. But, when Sony can make a game like Horizon: Zero Dawn for 40 million dollars, then it says that it's possible to make big games for much less.

The problem isn't that the games are too expensive to make, it's that there is so much wasted resources in the long standing models that do exist within the industry. Companies that refuse to change with the times, and find more efficient means of executing their productions.

What I find disheartning here is that Henning is a long standing proponent of things becoming more efficient and stream lined. Her tone pretty much seems to say that she's given up on trying, or at least coming to the realization that no matter how many options are given to the industry to be more profitable, they just aren't willing to try, and instead go for greener pastures with new paradigms that maximize revenue, while minimizing production costs.

[Cobra951]

The flip side of this coin is that games have become big, publicly held business, and as such, demands for constant year-over-year growth in profits are placed on it. That growth can't go on forever, and perhaps it's reaching a point of diminishing returns? Some recent games have earned ridiculous sums of revenue in a short time, multiple times their budget, yet their parent companies declared them to be disappointing. They made plenty of money, but they didn't make all the money in the world. This is why 800 people get fired during a company's financial boom. Investors demand big growth, or the top executives do, for their own gains.

[rainslacker]

Returns aren't diminishing. No company is going to have continuous growth forever. Sometimes such investments are also about getting returns. Those are typically paid out in dividends, which is more like profit sharing than trying to make a return on increase in stock prices. If a company can continuously return a good amount, the price of the stock and the value of the company can still go up. Obviously investors want more increase for a variety of reasons, but it's not always obtainable. However, for the time being, it is this need to increase stock value that is causing these kinds of practices to increase. But, game companies can do better at managing their projects, its just that some prefer to go the less risky route, and use paradigms that lead to GaaS, or predatory selling tactics.

[nucky64]

remember jason rubin? one of the founders of naughty dog and creators of "jak and daxter" and "crash bandicoot". when he left ND to pursue other interests, people were saying how it was a big loss to gaming and how would ND continue to make great games - well, ND andgaming has done very well......and it will continue if AH doesn't make any more games. times change, fox.

[-Foxtrot]

It's got nothing to do with "oh she's left ND, what will ND do now" my comment had nothing to do with that

The point is a talented person within the ENTIRE INDUSTRY is being thrown away like a cummy tissue and their talents will be wasted when they are not contributing to something. It's a shame since she is a good games developer.

[nucky64]

it was an analogy, fox - sorry i lost you with it.
i'll be simple: the POINT is that the gaming industry will be fine with or without her.

[shinoff2183]

@cigi

Imo gamepass is whack, Id prefer to own my games, physically to. If I dont own my game its practically renting. Screw that.

[isarai]

Yeah the AAA space is forever changing, but i think with the rise of indies now filling in the mid tier that dropped out last gen, we'll still see these single player hand crafted experiences. Maybe even more so now that some of those smaller devs/publishers are starting to gain traction like THQ nordic

[rdgneoz3]

You'll still see the hand crafted AAA single player games from big name studios, just depends on the publishers. Sony has Days Gone (6 hours of cutscene for the story), Last of Us Two, and Ghost of Tsushima coming out. You just have some companies like EA that kill single player games in favor of multiplayer games.

[Godmars290]

EA kills anything that can't be turned over quickly and/or repeatedly.

[TheOpenWorlder]

EA kills anything good. There we go!

[shinoff2183]

I agree and this is why ps4 has been so great this gen. Sony allowing smaller devs to get their games made physically giving rise to smaller publishers. Everyone says that physical media was dying out last gen but imo its came back with a vengeance this gen. Ive got way more ps4 games then ps3 games already. Indies are making some great games these days.

[jerethdagryphon]

Internal development should focus on building world story's and initial art design. Outsourcing will help with level population from a grey box based on concept art build g ai pathfinding and doing the heavy lifting before passing code base back to internal for q/a

[AK91]

Um but they are it's just that your at that point in your life where you physically and mentally can't take on the amount of crunch you did for your games in the past, however other unproven game devs still have that hunger and desire and as long as those devs still exist we will always get quality SP games.

[robtion]

The issue like with most things is just greed. These companies are making plenty of money, recoring record profits, and overpaying their executives and CEOs while laying off people who actually work. Unfortunately greed is a persistent problem and is running rampant currently so I'm not sure there are any realistic solutions here.

[Shikoku]

Exactly

[Cobra951]

Yes. Except instead of the simple term "greed", let's substitute in the need for publicly held corporations to grow at a rate well higher than real inflation every year, on average. It's not just about being profitable, but about increasing profits by a double-digit percentage every year. In a finite universe, you can't have Infinite growth. At some point, growth slows down, and the business model must change, or investors sell out, and take their money elsewhere.

That's capitalism, and its inherent flaw.

[motorsport71]

EA really broke her. That place is a black hole.

[mafiabrett]

Exactly what I was thinking. Feels like they brainwashed her into thinking about easy money over quality.

[Zeref]

believe it or not, developers need to make money.

[opc]

A lot of it probably has to do with the fact that she isn't in her 20s or 30s any more and just wants to experience life differently.

[MasterCornholio]

@Zeref

Developers can still make money by producing high quality games.

[KTF26]

@Zeref
she didn't get the money
they canceled her game

[Baza]

Expectations are rising higher and higher for single player games with strong narrative. Games like God of War, Horizon, Witcher 3, RDR2 have set the bar extremely high. The last project she directed was Uncharted 3 and that was by far the weakest in the series.

[Hardiman]

Well sure but there are still companies that deliver quality games. Not everyone does business like EA!

[Lore]

Not going to lie, every time I hear from this lady it’s always regarding drama. Seems really negative and nothing really positive or optimistic comes from her. Glad she helped create Uncharted but no one is going to want to hire or work with her if she continues to speak like this. Downvote all you want, it’s the reality.

[TheOpenWorlder]

While I upvoted your comment, it doesn't change the fact that being optimistic or positive is not changing the reality of what we're seeing. Did you read the article? It's mentioning how Activision is laying off 1K people despite record gains.

This is troublesome indeed. She's analyzing it realistically.

[kneon]

But that isn't an Activision problem, it's not even a game developer problem, it's a problem that is rampant in corporate America across industries.

[rainslacker]

She used to be a vocal critic of the game industry, or at least the business and development practices which led to waste. She has written books, and given many lectures on how to improve these situations, and has quite literally written the book on modern game design and studio operations which almost every studio follows in some way nowadays, even if they don't realize it.

Lately though, i see her moving away from hope that it can get better if the industry tries, to becoming complacent with accepting that there isn't much she can do about it anymore. I think she wants positive change based on her long standing criticism of the industry, which usually offered up hope of a better future, but constant set backs, and huge changes to general gaming paradigms, can wear a person out after a while.

The past couple years, she seems overly cynical, like she feels like her decades of work hasn't had any influence. It's like she's given up.

[Zeref]

Lol, you think anyone is going to reject Amy Hennig hahahaha

[badz149]

EA did

[shinoff2183]

No reason to downvote you hit the nail on the head. If anything I believe the industry is getting better. The amount of good indie games is only getting bigger and better.

[Flewid638]

Not everything in life is good. lol.

[harmny]

8 years without shipping a game.

[DrumBeat]

Hopefully this talented woman can get back in the game and pursue a project she's passionate about.

[Smokehouse]

I think she would be a better fit at a smaller studio anyways. The smaller studios take bigger risks. I’m thinking about her working on a game like biomutant. A small team doing great things, her writing and game direction could have a huge impact at a studio like that. People are saying her talents would be wasted on an independently owned studio but I think it’s the opposite. Her talents were wasted at EA entirely and in the end there at naughty dog. Follow Ken Levine into a small semi-retirement studio and just experiment with 20 people. I have been waiting to see his game for like 3 years.

[Sophisticated_Chap]

The Initiative should hire her. She would be the capstone to what is turning out to be quite the roster within studio.

[OG_TK_Cole]

Im shocked the video game Industry has lasted this long with their current model. I thought they would have been followed the Movie Industry.

[TheColbertinator]

Many gamers support MP only franchises like most of the Activision IPs and the developers still get the boot

[jznrpg]

Many gamers don’t support multiplayer games and play only or mostly SP games.

[Shikoku]

The only thing that needs to change is the industry and its unrealistic expectations on ROI and mega-corporations ridiculous drive to ever increase profits by any means necessary. Marketing is out of hand as is expectations.

[Malice-Flare]

go back to SIE Amy, EA was a bad place for you...

[StarrySky]

I read the article It is sad, but then again, layoffs happen because of greed, mostly. Especially by publishers; if a video game doesn't make the expected sales and then incoming layoff possibility rises. The thing I don't understand that we have massively populated and diversified successful video game platforms; PS4, XBox, Switch, DS and Vita, mobiles and computers. I wonder if some investors are self-convinced that they can make huge quick money after seeing that Fortnite making billions or Apex reaches to 50 millions shortly.

[zugdar]

Well when you got bonehead beancounters making devs chase trends of course you won't be able to get anything done.

Being off hands and letting devs do their work has a great track record in the right hands. Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite, even with their flaws are great games with narrative and 2K gave Ken Levine the room to do his work.

Great experiences can be had with smaller teams. Hellblade is a good example of a shorter but tight experience given its team size.

[Silly gameAr]

I wonder if Amy ever gets mad when the media twist her words, and use Uncharted to get attention when they make articles about her?

[XiNatsuDragnel]

EA the manipulator a #%$^ victim

[Blank]

Wow when a top tier talent says "it feels more financially sound to partner up." you know stuff is not going right. Thanks for this article and interview stuff like this is why I come to N4G for. We need more indepth industry stuff like this.

[Inzo]

We can thank GAAS for this as well as companies like EA and Activision, which BTW claimed record breaking profit just before they laid off 200+ people. Whats also disturbing to me is I find myself disagreeing with Hennig more often than I would want too. I really hope that this is just talk from her and that we will soon see her on a new AAA title.

[ufo8mycat]

It all comes down to greed, nothing else. It’s like any other company in another industry. “Oh we made 2 billion in profit this year, which is down from 2.2 billion from last year. Lay off time!”

Yes because 2 billion isn’t a lot of profit right?! Once a company hits a new profit mark, that becomes the benchmark, if it now goes below that new mark, it’s lay-off and budget cutting time.

They make enough money, it just comes down to greed.

[Emme]

I dont understand that interview, is it from 2010? Outsourcing special or repetitive tasks has been a thing since the early 2000s. There are art studios that specialise on asset creation for games, many of them in Asia and Eastern Europe. Without outsourcing we would not see titles like AC or GTA or Such scope games.

[lellkay]

She's been near EA for to long.

[spambot0815]

something like dreams and random generator stuff like the one in no mans sky will probably result in even more coding job losses over the next 10 years or so because i'm sure at some point in the not so distant future a cod or fortnight multiplayer can be done by AI an player tweaking alone.

[sdoolan]

I feel like the way the industry will stay afloat in it's current state, as much as I don't really like it, is the games as a service model. You have the initial $60 game release that gives you a single player aspect and mutliplayer content for a set period of time and then you pay an annual fee for content updates e.g. Destiny 2's annual pass. Then you will have the purely multiplayer games that will launch at a lower base cost but will require an access pass on a rolling monthly/yearly basis.

I'm not the greatest fan of this model as with DLC you can pick and choose which ones you actually like the look of and decide not to purchase the ones you don't like, however with games as a service you are stuck with whatever gets produced and you end up paying for it regardless.

However I feel like if publishers want to keep up this model of large development teams they employ 365 days a year they'll need a constant revenue source in the form of subscription/annual passes to account for deficits they may be incurring when, as mentioned in the article, you have specialists that are not needed at that particular point in time but are still owed a wage.

Another solution would be similar to what companies such as EA and Activision do and buy up a lot of studios and use staff interchangeably as much as possible. We've seen this with activision using other dev's to help with Destiny DLC and PC ports and it seems like a logical step. The downside is if certain key games don't perform as expected then studios get closed, people get repurposed, and jobs get lost.

There doesn't seem to be 1 all-solving answer but I feel like already we're at a stage where we have big AAA development and low cost indie development. In the process losing the middleground, or AA developers, that produced some cult classics such as god hand in the past.

I don't believe the industry will go to a largely outsourcing way of working due to the amount of NDA and IP they have to protect and spreading your development over a large amount of companies and employees with no real investment in the success of the product will lead to many more leaks. Not to mention if everyone outsources everything you're going to end up with lots of companies using the same outsourcing companies and games becoming much more homogeneous in the way they work; even more so than they are already.

[bluefox755]

Man, she never has any good news, lol.

[Father__Merrin]

Make tradition games, new stories new characters every game doesn't need to be open world or have online

[jaycptza]

SIE never got the memo Amy... Also most devs already do this...

[m2stech]

Yeah why spend that much time and resources into making an AAA story game when you can make much more money just by working on battle royals and other trends and even end up using only 5% of the budget and time.

[ILostMyMind]

Sad but true.

[DillyDilly]

This is what happens when people get in bed with the likes of EA & Activision they crush your soul & make you stupider along the way

[Sieden]

Someone from Take Two's new "Private Division" needs to give her a call.

[The_Sage]

Things are still working like they were at Sony. She went to work on an EA funded project. What did she expect?

[Thundercat77]

She shouldn't have left Naughty Dog. Working at EA change her for ever.

[jznrpg]

For her they sure aren’t. She starting to sound salty. Sure she has some points but should just move on make a small studio and create something to show us what she means .

[Christopher]

Eh, I get managing 300 is harder, but not because it's harder for the creative process so much as teams with that many people tend to be led more by profit-based goals and not necessarily creativity.

1. She doesn't work with those 300 people. She still works with a handful of people.
2. Mass majority of those 300 aren't making decisions, but creating products based on goals dictated by management.
3. Proper delineation of duties ensures proper management of differing processes so that it's easier to determine what changes are needed and where within the production of the product.
4. Larger teams do have a higher rate of security risk as, was mentioned above, it's profit-based decision making and that means cuts are made to appeal to stockholders or the adjust what the company wants to focus on in regards to higher profit margin potentials (not something I agree with as maximizing profit margins doesn't mean obtaining profit from a wide variety of sets and limiting your competition overall).
5. Smaller companies have their own issues in regards to technological potential, funding, and more to create the same 'quality' in certain regards as one would want that can be done with larger teams.

Fact of the matter, 300 team studios aren't bad when properly managed, neither are 10 team studios when they have the right people who can deliver high quality with fewer people.

I feel somewhat sorry for Hennig as she's been burned by EA and felt she had to leave ND for whatever reasons in order to achieve her creative goals. But, at the same time, there is a known risk in the industry like there is in many creative industries of the same nature. I hope she finds what she needs to provide for her creative talents and desired output, but arguing that it's the fault of large teams the devolve creativity seems to only want to focus on what she considers creative rather than the fact that it's a subjective field. RDR2 is creative as heck and a massive team.

[xPaYDaYx]

Can Sony just get her a studio already so she can control everything? Akin to Kojima.

[SlagWolf]

These companies have record profits yet they are laying people off...

[beulahland]

"Hennig: "ThingsssszzZZzzzRONC!
She talks, and talks, and talks and tal
Girl, stop talking so much and go work on a game.