Are Square Enix to blame for the once scrumptious Tomb Raider now being perceived as a cow that needs to stop being milked?
Pretty much, they just made a new action adventure IP and slapped Tomb Raider on it Hopefully they stop for a while and go back to the original Lara, maybe a softboot.
Agreed. They should have preserved her character that made her iconic and unique like Sony did with Kratos.
the new series is great. it's actually better than some of the games before it i think. anyways, you can always go back and play the original series. i'm not much for brining back the original sloth controls and dinosaurs from the original series. acrobat platforming and puzzles on the other hand definitely.
Being only a badass isn’t an interesting character trait.
Nah, the reboots still felt like Tomb Raider, just modernized.
He wouldn't know that considering that he knows absolutely nothing about the IP. He even said that the originals were platformers, the same genre as Mario 64 or Crash! It must have been a surprise to him when the reboot turned out to be an action adventure game. The same genre that the original TR games pioneered.
Softboot is great. rpg element will be great.
agreed Foxtrot, they need to go back to who Lara actually was, a heroine with acrobatic skills, who loved adventure, traveling the world (not just one samey open world map), and solving puzzles.
Square needs to go back to classic Lara Croft. Make a new TR game but in a more cartoony style like with cell shading. Sell it for half price. 30 bucks. If successful they could make it a new TR trilogy
I don't consider the new Lara Croft to be Lara Croft. They just slapped her name on a new character and called it a day. Games are good overall, but the character is dull, annoying, and shallow.
Yes, first one was a great step forward, we were "becoming the tomb raider" and it all came together in the end and gave us a peek at what makes Lara who she is later on. But then the second one came and acted like the first one just didn't happen, like she didn't get dual pistols at the end of the game handed down to her from her mentor, like she didn't say "screw being weak and unprepared" in the final act, like she didn't grow less clumsy and more competent. Instead her iconic dual pistols simply disappeared without a trace, she still starts every game unprepared having to scavenge all the damn time, she still frantically shuffles like an inexperienced, frantic mess, and she's still incredibly clumsy getting her ass handed to her every 10secs by mother nature and gravity. Not only that they made her progression as a character slow to nearly a halt by still making the next two games about "Becoming the tomb raider" and still by the end of the third we're still not "the tomb raider" she's still whiny, clumsy, unprepared, and no matter how hard you try a damn bow and climbing axe is not going to replace her Dual pistols as her iconic weapons. Then there's the very little done in terms of game play changes in each game, they do next to nothing in terms of adding/improving the gameplay from game to game, and what played great in 2013 just feels dated now. I don't know, i really want to love this series as i loved the original series, but it just sucks in so many ways.
the dual pistols are lame
Said no one ever.
She's supposed to be a person that fell into archaeology, solves ancient riddles and investigates old tombs and temples.... and she's running around with both hands filled with guns? dual wielding is stupid in tomb raider. This ain't Doom or Wolfenstein.
@opc but it makes more sense that she can just take up multiple times of munitions and use them skillfully, despite her apparent first time shooting a gun, or killing a person was in the first game? She was shooting rifles, machine guns, RPG's, setting up mines or traps, vehicle mounted weapons, using a grappling hook, throwing grenades, etc. The older games usually weren't plentiful with ammunition or weapons except in a few of them, so it's more believable that she'd carry around a couple pistols over what they display in the newer games.
that doesn't make sense either. but dual pistols are still stupid. the only reason you like them is because they were in the old games. It's okay to say that the old games got some thing wrong
@isarai You're right, the first game in the reboot series was a fantastic origins game. And while Rise was technically better in a number of ways it and then Shadow after somehow stayed stuck in the "become the tomb raider" plot and didn't really advance Lara or the story past that point. They for some reason decided to make it a origin story trilogy instead of keeping the "origin story" to the first game and a half or so and progressing the narrative past that. And while all three are at least good games they kind of stalled the series out a bit.
The second game, Rise of the TR built the series up even more. I thought part 3 would be so epic, but instead it turned out to be the typical brown man villain with a mustache or goatee that wants ultimate power and you could interchange him with the villain in UC Lost Legacy. I thought we were gonna learn more about Trinity,
Idk how Square Enix can say Shadow of the Tomb Raider underperformed when it already outsold Dragon Quest XI. The company clearly has different expectations for its eastern and western games. Plus idk how anyone can say they mishandled this reboot series when those games are already the most successful titles in the franchise as a whole. Anyone who thinks Square Enix would ever bench their third most successful franchise is hopelessly delusional.
RPGs, generally speaking, are a bit of a niche genre. Especially but not limited to, when compared to action, shooter, etc. So yes, any developer/publisher should be expecting lower sales for RPGs as opposed to many other games. Granted there are exceptions like Final Fantasy and other RPGs which have sold incredibly well but those are not the norm. Despite Dragon Quest being a huge success in Japan it's never been a huge seller in the US either. According to Wiki Dragon Quest VII sold less than 200k copies in the US. Not sure how true that is. However it wouldn't surprise me since back in the PS2 era most RPGs seemed to sell 200-500k. While other games were expected to sell at least 750k-1 million+. So yes, there are clearly different expectations for different games.
Square Enix isn’t just any publisher though. Many of Square Enix’s RPGs are the best selling in the genre, so it’s still absurd to continually express disappointment for their western titles. The numbers that Tomb Raider is pulling now is nothing to sneeze at and any company wishes it could have an action adventure series as successful as it is now. Let’s put this into further clarity. In just 5 years the latest reboot Tomb Raider series alone has sold over 22.12 million units which is on par with God of War did in its first 7 years and Uncharted & Gears of War in their first 8 years. This also puts its above popular franchises such as Prince of Persia, Devil May Cry, Saints Row, Mass Effect, & Metroid. So once again like I said it’s seriously absurd to say the reboot series has been mishandled when it’s clearly as successful and even more in many cases as many of people’s other beloved franchises. Square Enix clearly has poor management and skewed priorities for their eastern and western franchises. This is the company that would spend so much making a proprietary engine that most of their modern games won’t even use but then go on to complain about a game selling 3.4 million in four weeks(which I remind you was instantly the best selling Tomb Raider game in that short period in 13 years).
How dafuq is Tomb Raider a milked franchise? That kind of dumb rhetoric can be applied to any successful franchise. “Still, while Square Enix are disappointed in Tomb Raider” What’s there to be disappointed about? Tomb Raider sold 7 million Tomb Raider II sold 6.5 million Tomb Raider III sold 6 million Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation sold 5 million Tomb Raider Chronicles sold 1.5 million Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness sold 2.5 million Tomb Raider: Legend sold 2 million Tomb Raider Anniversary sold 1.3 million Tomb Raider: Underworld sold 2.6 million Tomb Raider 2013 sold 11 million Rise of the Tomb Raider sold 7 million Shadow of the Tomb Raider sold 4.12 million so far As can clearly be seen here, Square Enix successfully revitalized interest in the Tomb Raider series after interest was waning. And they're handling gen series better than when Eidos did when they wanted a Tomb Raider game out every year. The reboot series with just three entries has already performed almost as well as Kingdom Hearts did as as a whole in its first 15 years and close to a third of the Tomb Raider franchise’s entire sales. If something like that disappoints you then you clearly have messed up priorities. You must also see Kingdom Hearts 2, Dragon Quest XI, NieR: Automata & many of Square Enix’s other titles over the years as commercially disappointing games as well because they didn’t move as huge a number.
It was Square Enix who said it underperformed and was victim of a crowded market. 4.12 million units is a great number.
sounds good to us, but does that cover the cost of making and marketing the game?
Square Enix said every Tomb Raider in the latest reboot series underperformed soon after its release. It’s like clockwork. The title then goes on to move huge numbers shortly after. This isn’t anything new. Even Tomb Raider: Underworld, the best selling title in the franchise at the time since The Last Revelation, was said to have underperformed by Eidos. https://www.cinemablend.com... Eidos pretty much relied on Tomb Raider to stay afloat since it was their main flagship series at the time so their disappointment isn’t as egregious, but Square Enix clearly has grossly unrealistic expectations for the series and their western titles as a whole.
I'm not sure where you got those sales numbers but they're WAY WAY off maybe you like to provide citations for them ?
PhoenixUP provided links, as reference for his numbers, he provided. You are just stating, "way way off" with no links/reference. Do you have any valid evidence to provide? Sorry, but your words mean nothing to me, alone, without concrete evidence.
Got them from Square Enix themselves. Do your own darn research before criticizing other for actually knowing their facts http://www.hd.square-enix.c... https://www.gamesindustry.b...
LOL I have done my own research thats how I known your number s are WRONG ! Trusting Square to give you accurate numbers was your first mistake.
It needs a 3 to 4 year hiatus then come back with something grander.
Yes they did
Yep. I've been saying it for a long time now. They took an icon/role model and turned her into a generic shadow of her former self
Of course they did.
yep pretty bad like everething Squix touched this generation. Except Nier Automata.
It was honestly the TR 3rd series fault for being a generic Uncharted clone and having none of the platforming and exploration of the previous entries.
Complete fail. At least give Lara some sex appeal. Game was way too conservative.
Aside from Laura's bad look in Shadow, all three games were good games. Rise of the Tomb Raider was and still is more fun than Uncharted 4.
the first Tomb Raider was definitely good. I enjoyed the game from beginning to end. I have yet to play the second game and I never bought the third.
Reboots are great. I think people forget this was tomb raiders last chance at life after several failed games.
I liked these new Tomb Raider games they looked great only thing that fell flat was the ending for Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
I thought the first reboot of Tomb Raider was fantastic. Couldn’t get into ROTR.. haven’t tried SOTR
No. All three of the modern reboots were great. People are just ignorant and compared it to Uncharted or wanted a more sexualized Lara with huge t!ts.
Funny cause the majority of complaints i see are not about tits or sexualization, they just want the Lara with attitude/confidence and dual pistols.
No, those hating on it for such petty reasons are just looking for excuses. Just like when people complained nonstop about there not being enough puzzles and too much combat. But in Shadow of the Tomb Raider they fixed exactly that, but it doesn't get much credit or recognition for that improvement. If they add back dual pistols and make her more sassy people will just look for other excuses to downplay the game.
Probably because the puzzles still suck, yeah theres more but they're still too simple. Every tomb raider in the new trilogy, whenever i walk into a puzzle room/area i take a few seconds to look around and within 15secs i already jnow the solution. Then its just spending the next few minutes doing busy work. Thats what it feels like is busy work cause nothing about the puzzles is actually... y'know... puzzling? Previous games had fantastic puzzles that actually challenged people.
@isarai That's pretty amazing you're able to solve the puzzles in 15 seconds. You should post clips of your video game wizardry on youtube. Seriously though, who needs another cliche femme fatale who quips as she takes out dudes? We've got Bayonetta for that. I personally prefer a Lara more grounded in reality as the amazing physical/emotional feats she manages to overcome make her more badass.
Didnt know falling everywhere like a climsy oaf and yelling "shit shit shit" all the time makes you a badass. And a video wouldnt prove squat, too easy to fake, but every puzzle is made of the same few easy to spot components. Connect zipline to rope wrapped posts, burn things covered in white cloth, move objects with handhold (usually spattered with white paint), and tilt the fulcrumed platform. Spatter a couple cranks every now and then and space it all out with platform segments outlined in white paint, shuffle the order and thats literally every puzzle
No, the first was fantastic, the second was ok, but they kind of dropped the ball on the third.
The third is tied with the first as my favorite of the reboots. It has a better balance of puzzles, exploration, platforming and combat. And the visuals are amazing and better than the previous two games. I find the setting better than the second reboot's setting too.
First was the best.
In my opinion, the rebooted TR had several weak spots, Lara's characterization included, that really hurt the game past the first in the series. The "become the Tomb Raider" narrative that lasted THREE games overstayed its welcome. The rebooted Lara was interesting in the first game, but the subsequent ones didn't really evolve her into anything. And I also found her character boring through and through. The game to me just took itself way too seriously.
She needed the short shorts and tank top. At the least...
I think the biggest issue for me personally was the inconsistent show casings down to the final product. The narratives flow never fit the gameplay where she is truly no better then the enemy she was up against. It wasn’t like she was a underground grave robber/thief like Nathan. She was supposed to be a coming into her own explorer and she spoke one moment like trinity was this harrowing evil then went postal on them in situations they weren’t even present in. They boasted in rise of the tomb raider all these options to avoid conflict and have the options to either sneak or fight. But the final product stripped you of all those options. She was more like female Rambo the. Lara Croft and I felt no desire to buy shadow after rise. This probably wasn’t an issue for others but it definitely took me out of the world they were building.
The stupid exclusive deal with Microsoft for Rise of the Tomb Raider killed all the goodwill they had with the PlayStation and Pc community.
Yet RoTR still sold quickly more on PS4 than it did on XO
I personally really liked all three of the newest games but as a very old gymnast I’m seriously bummed that they have removed her athletic skills. I really liked when she did her handstand to get up ledges and I had much fun in trying to see how long routines where possible to string together.
Well, to be honest she's still really damn agile and athletic. I think some of her more over-the-top acrobatics would seem kind of out of place in a modern game that attempts to be at least somewhat realistic. Doing flips and handstands on the edges of cliffs might look cool but it's highly unrealistic. Obviously, these games, like most games, are already pretty unrealistic in many ways, but maybe extreme acrobatics would feel too out of place for me. I wouldn't be completely against it in a future installment, but it would have to fit the overall feel and tone of the game.
The first one was great
Square needs to go back to classic Lara Croft. Make a new TR game but in a more cartoony style like with cell shading. Sell it for half price. 30 bucks. If successful they could make it a new TR trilogy.
As a opressed white man from a developed country, I think Square should keep Lara as a bag of nothing with a sexy body like in the 90s.
It’s hard to take Square Enix’s expectations seriously anymore in regards to how they treat their western and eastern properties with vastly different expectations. - Hitman: Absolution sells 3.6 million in 5 months - Square Enix is disappointment. - NieR: Automata sells 3.5 million in 1 year and 11 months - Square Enix is satisfactied. - Shadow of the Tomb Raider sells 4.12 million in four months - Square Enix is disappointed. - Dragon Quest XI sells 4 million in 1 year and 5 months - Square Enix is satisfied At over 22 million units, the latest reboot Tomb Raider series has already sold more in 5 years than Uncharted did in 8 years https://www.gamespot.com/ar... and some people are even pondering whether Square Enix will put the series on ice? 😂
It would have done well and continue to get better if it weren't for their stupid decision to go time exclusives and exclude the PC and PS crowd. The first one did really well for a reboot. In many ways it reminded me of Uncharted and part 2 they could have really gone big However they bet on the wrong horse and had to go with MS for the second game. It was clear to see that they wanted TR to rival Uncharted and were hoping it being time exclusive on Xbox would really push it up against Uncharted 4. However Uncharted 4 got delayed and TR2 instead got released in the mist of the the Holiday onslaught By the time it came out on the PS4 most PS gamers have moved on and have too many other games to play
RoTR did do well. It’s second highest selling game in the franchise Plus PS4 gamers didn’t move on from enjoying the game since it sold far better on that platform than XO
I think the reboot was great and needed. If they revisited the classic version with the new version side by side, the new one would win for me everytime.
Yes, where are the obscenely large and misshapen boobs? I do not recognize this Lara.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider is an AWESOME game. Shame people wanna be jaded about it
I enjoyed the 2013 reboot and it's remaster but Rise was just alright to me. I haven't played Shadow yet but I'll eventually get to it.
The TR reboot has been fantastic. Just because sales don’t match those of say the COD franchise does not mean they have failed. If SE wanted more financial success, they need to have released these games in the June or July window. Reflecting back on the PS1&2 days, the TR franchise has come a long ways but still held true to its roots (except Angel of Darkness). Lots of memories from Revelations....
Did they though? I loved the new Tomb Raider games!