The furore around a male Overwatch player impersonating a female in order to troll gamers has resulted in a backlash - against the wrong target. As a result, female gamers have yet more hurdles to overcome in eSports, through no fault of their own.
It's not a setback because some idiots decided to try and troll the community to try and prove a point. It just set the team back, because it's hard to respect someone, or a group who's ideals are so skewed, and ideas are so myopic. Female gamers are still welcome in the gaming community, and I know of nothing that prevents them to join a comparative team. What these people tried to present highlighted more that this notion of harassment of female gamers is overplayed, and over inflated, and most of the claims hold no merit. The same thing many gamers said back during gamergate. That should make female gamers be more skeptical of things which may keep them away from gaming, but ultimately, a female gamer interested in gaming shouldn't care what others say it think....same as their male counterparts. So on behalf of the gaming community, I welcome anyone, male or female to join is and have fun
Okay so the author is saying that because this Ellie was getting positive attention for being a girl gamer when if fact it was a boy. And the troll had set females back as a result. I disagree. It is not like the existence of female gamers depended on Ellie being a real women. And if his intention was malice, can we all admit how sad he would have to be as a human being and choose pity over anger with this one.
in theory that shouldnt keep them away, but the reality proves otherwise. I do feel women overplay the harrasment a bit, because not only females get raged at when they make a mistake in a game, while often they present it as if they are the only one on the receiving end of that. On the flip side, I do see females in games getting more harrassed than males in some games I play, and it doesnt surprise me that some female gamers are turned off by the idea of that. It's a shame because they should be able to be enjoyed by everyone. And if you try to defend them for it, you are called a white knight and doesnt make it better most of the time. I do think that it is changing, if ever so slightly. Also look at twitch, there are a LOT more female streamers than a couple years ago (not counting the booby streamers) which might convince some females to play/stream where they otherwise shouldnt.
Well said as well. There is nuance to the whole problem. Harassers need to be dealt with, but victimizing makes that harder to do. It sort of bothers me how people try to make human interaction seem so simple, makes me wonder how many people they actually interact with.
A lot of what I'm about to say is relevant to many things outside of gaming as well. If women are anxious about joining, then they really shouldn't be. There are plenty of gamers who would welcome them, but there will be those that will be hostile towards them. Those that are hostile, are probably hostile towards everyone though. If people are going to harass women over something as trivial as gaming, consider that they are probably threatened by women, and really shouldn't be looked at as people that need to be worried about. There is nothing at all that they need to do to try and gain acceptance, just be a gamer, and do what you want to do. The reality of the situation is is that online harassment rarely ever amounts to much, and most of it is just bluster. It isn't common for the people who harass others online to be able to take it any further than their own posturing, and it shouldn't be taken seriously on the comments, or at least, it shouldn't get someone so riled up. I notice people get too upset because they take things personally, when more often than not, it's just people being trolls or idiots. I see both men and women harassed all the time. The gaming community has it's bad seeds. The difference in the harassment is that the female gender is targeted as something inferior, whereas the harassment of males is more general. But if a woman isn't going to stand for such treatment outside of gaming, there is no reason for them to stand for it within gaming. Anyone is going to be attacked by those doing the harassment, if they try to defend the victim. The gender is irrelevant. There are just defined terms for the type of attacks that are targeted at females. this is just the way things are, because most harassment is just people trying to get a rise out of others. It's trolling, and if it goes beyond some comments in the forums or community, then there is recourse through legal action, or just filing complaints with service providers or ISP's. I guess what I'm saying is that while i can understand why some may not wish to join, there is no reason for them to actually be unwilling to do so. I don't play online games much because I don't care for the bad seeds in the community. The good people though are good, and I have no problem with them. I'm a male, and only marginally proficient at the games that tend to be most represented in online gaming. But the idiots bother me enough to not participate in that part of the community. Not because of gender, but because of not wishing to have my enjoyment ruined by idiots. Women should look at it the same way. No one is forcing them out. They are welcome as anyone else by the greater community. They just need to find what they like, and not worry so much about those they don't care to play with, and don't expect special treatment because they're women.
"It's not a setback because some idiots decided to try and troll the community to try and prove a point." the point was proven, though... "a female gamer interested in gaming shouldn't care what others say it think" perhaps if they weren't constantly harassed, berated, and threatened they wouldn't...
The point wasn't proven. The reason the "player" was harassed for having dubious stats, not for being female.
no. that's not the reason why, that's the excuse people hide behind.
Whatever you say 🙄
What point is that? That there are those that will immediately say its harassment when people question the validity of a player? That those same people will lump the greater community into a generalization of being sexist if they are trying to prove their point? That there is too much political posturing trying to prove points, instead of encouraging others to be a unified community? That the only way to counter any argument by these people is to shame people into submission? They proved a lot of points, but they did nothing at all to prove that the greater community has a problem with female gamers. "no. that's not the reason why, that's the excuse people hide behind." And you once again prove the first points that I stated in my comment. That there is no discussion, when there is no way for you to let the other side win. This was an ill-conceived social experiment, by people who don't understand the nature of these kinds of things, and had no control group. They conflated the issue by making all criticism into what served their own pre-determined conclusion. Instead of addressing the issue to see if it escalated, they poked the bear to make it about harassment of women, instead of trying to tackle the valid concerns first. There was no attempt to try and remain unbiased. There was every attempt to troll. Them claiming it was a social experiment was just an excuse to troll and incite the conversation, only proving that the whole issue is conflated by methods which dismiss valid concern, and arguments which are only supported by ignoring the greater debate.
"perhaps if they weren't constantly harassed, berated, and threatened they wouldn't..." Bro, if you think that's a reason to abstain from playing games, then nobody would be playing anything. Online gaming is basically like being on the web: You toughen up, learn to retaliate, or gtfo :) This sentiment goes for both male and female gamers.
I think we have an SJW mod that is going on a comment hiding spree. Pathetic. Can't even handle differing opinions! YOU MUST BELIEVE OUR WAY OR WE WILL SILENCE YOU! Kinda scary actually, that you can only have one opinion here.
Opinions are so scaryyyyy. Mod them!
It was a guy pretending to be a girl lol......
Setback for female gamers? Actually, no. All it did was put on full display the hypocrisy from the sjw games "journalists". It also proved how privileged female gamers are (an unknown player makes a professional esports team because they're female. The team virtue signalled how Ellie could be a beacon for female gamers) in the gaming landscape.
It also demonstrates a very clear double standard applied to males and females. This guy was a relative nobody until he assumed the role of a female, suddenly he's on a pro team. If men and women are equal, why hold them to different standards?
He was a nobody though. Both as a male and female. They didn't have enough of a play history, which is why people questioned the validity. The actual person may have been someone though. This whole thing about the validity of the player probably would have gone unnoticed by the greater community as well, if it wasn't made into something about gamers being sexist. Otherwise, I doubt many people here would care. But because of the actions of Second Wind, they conflated the issue into something else, into a topic which is much more sensitive for the community, and cast shame upon the community in an attempt to prove a point. That back fired on them. There are male and female competative players now. Outside of people who follow such things, they're still nobodies. Their entire popularity rest within a bubble of ESports, and a fake or real female player probably would have remained there as well. At least going by the fact that there are now female ESports players that the community doesn't have a problem with, and don't harass because they're women. At least I'm assuming that's the case, since reports aren't made about them. This entire experiment is anecdotal, and it's poisoned because it was done in a way to provoke the community, not see if the conclusion would have come in it's own time. If this was a known female player, who had a history to have the credentials they had joining the team, there is nothing to suggest they would have been "harassed" in any way beyond the normal idiocy that you see around, which tends to be minimal, and easy to ignore.
I read the article and I think I'm missing something. So this guy pretended to be female. Joined an Overwatch league. Blizzard reached out and told the team she/he wasn't what she/he appeared to be, so they "violated her/his privacy to get to the bottom of it? Am I getting that right? So it sounds to me like they had a reason and it had nothing to do with the person's gender. I mean, the thought they were recruiting a female, right?
I think how it sets people back is due to harassment any new female players will get - immediate assumptions they're fake, and more trolling than they already get. It's so toxic as is, this is just another type of negativity added to it.
Except there are other female competitive players in many ESports games, and their credentials aren't questioned. They may be harassed by some, but not enough to say that it's indicative of a larger issue with the community. To date, I can't think of any other report that a female joining a team, or competing in a competition was harassed to the point of making them want to quit. The only instance of harassment I can think of in ESports against women was an individual on a team, who harassed another female player. That case has been a while, but that guy seemed like a douche. The end result wasn't that the player quit, but that the guy doing the harassing got banned. There just isn't enough corollary evidence of other instances of this happening to suggest there is a problem with the community. This case is tainted by the fact that it was deceptive, and staged to apparently perform an experiment.
No, it's not a setback. This issue had nothing to do with gender, game or a team. This "Ellie" could be "Frank" and result will be the same. Imagine, if a huge football/baseball/basketball/h ockey/etc team in a major league signs up an unknown player to a major position. And nobody knows who that person is (no records of playing in highschool, university, minor teams), how he/she plays, it's just a person called "Foopie" from somewhere. People will be curious too and they should be.
CNN and MSNBC headline "Foopie marks a historic breakthrough into the toxic masculinity that is major professional sports. We cannot wait to see which gender our new hero is, if they even have a gender!"
That read more like a Salon headline than CNN. Or a sarcastic New Yorker headline.
The result wouldn't have been the same, because the group in question wouldn't have been able to provoke everyone by saying that anyone who questions the validity of the player was a sexist. That is what they were trying to do, and the whole experiment was set up to come to that conclusion. People questioned the validity of the player. The only majority group that made it about gender, were those trying to conduct the experiment. not saying there weren't some people in there trying to question(or troll) the players credentials didn't do so because of gender, but having read through quite a few of the comments on the issue before it blew up, it seems most were just asking for proof of the players validity. Then the arguments about gender started when the defense of that player started saying others were only questioning because they were sexist.
Activist jouros at their BS best! Question: why is no one talking about woman who was part of this "social experiment"? "through no fault of their own." Because whamen are always the victim right?
How is this something new? Impersonating in gaming and trolling has been around well before edork esport bs.
Massive setback? No. (I don't see how this damages female gamers, rather it reveals what some ignore). It sheds light on the fact that while many of us accept female gamers with open arms, when it comes to standing in the light of the world stage, bullies, trolls and disgusting personalities take aim at what they deem a target. The only path is forward. Progress will continue to be made. This is not a setback.
How is saying nobody cares worthy of an inappropriate strike? Can we get some real moderators on this site?
This. Its all they have and its pathetic. BAN OR HIDE EVERYTHING I DON'T LIKE
Corrected title: The "Ellie" Effect is a Massive Setback for Feminist Activists Masquerading as Game Journalists
It's that fragile femininity!
Flag me as inappropriate please.
who would have thought it would blow up like this? What's hilarious is how most game journos from Kotaku to Washington Post came up with all of these headlines about harassment and sexism and misogyny and women in gaming and that that was the reason for Ellie to quit and whatnot... At the end it was all an elaborate lie and they all fell for it. https://twitter.com/SophNar...
If this is all it takes to set back female gamers from being competitive in the gaming industry you have to start wondering how much they wanted it to begin with.
Ohhhhh stop. I can't get big on CamSoda because I dont have boob. Lets make an article
Nothing is holding them back. Stop.
sorry let me tuck my masculinity between my legs for you. there, im posing with an iced moca latte and a sun dress. are your precarious feelings safe from harm now my little delicate princess?
I like you. I would get you a beer.
Thanks friend. Make it a root beer im sober 6 months.
The truth is that even though all types of people love video games, including well-adjusted, cool and kind persons, it's a medium that attracts teens and young adults with serious social problems, as it's an activity they can do without leaving their house. Psychological studies have shown that trolls are very unhappy people, usually abused physically and mentally by family and peers. Play games like League and Overwatch, and every so often you get matched with someone who would probably literally be willing to hurt other people over perceived mistakes of other players. It's like their entire ego depends on whether or not they win a video game. Screaming and smashing their own shit while playing lol. Racism and sexism, etc. There's really nothing you can do for female players or anyone else when you put yourself in a temporary social circle with people like that. Games just need to do a better job of allowing players to decide what types of people they can be paired up with. Age groups, pooling players with large amounts of toxic reports together, things like that. Just last night I got matched with a dude, who when he heard people speaking English, started literally SCREAMING into his mic in Spanish (loud enough to blow his mic almost) that Americans were stupid pigs that deserved to die, and that he'd rape our mothers. He wasn't kidding or trolling, it was pure hatred lol. Nothing you can do but mute and report. Funny thing being, my friend who he started screaming at is Canadian. Gotta love people.
That’s so dumb. I’m not good enough to play esports but I’m not coming up with excuses and fake “hurdles” to blame on my lack of skill or dedication lol. “You won’t let me esports because I’m a girl!” No dummy. You can’t esports because you’re not good enough. Like the 99.99% of the rest of us. Welcome to the club.
This again, is just a bunch of nonsense. The vast majority of men like gaming with women. The people who are getting trolled, are the ones that pushed the victim narrative in the first place, before they even knew the facts. It's all about pushing a political agenda, and this article is trying once again, to push the victim narrative, but they think they're smart by going about it from a different angle this time. Needless to say, people aren't stupid, and it wont work. If women want to compete in pro-gaming, then they will, simple as that.
What hurdles? To just prove you're not a liar? Seems like that should be required in the first place.
Dude trolls everyone, people question it, called out as sexists for questioning the validity, turns out ellie isnt real like everyone thought, still called sexist by media and somehow this is all about men making it harder for women. Grow up media.
It's not a setback for females. It's a setback on privacy. You should be forced to have a certain amount of info public. Especially your appearance if your going to be doing esports. It's dumb that someone try hide that stuff. That's what the issue was
My wife plays video games and she is very good at most games she plays. In her experience from playing with her is that harassment doesn't start til she starts whipping some ass (which is a common trend) then they start fearing that their masculinity and pride is being hurt. After that its constant "get to the kitchen" sexist crap but I am married to a one of a kind woman and we start laughing and cracking jokes. My wife knows that the majority of the community is good people and the toxic ones are the minority and won't let it hinder her enjoyment.
Yeah I think a lot of it is when people just want to insult someone they go for thing that they think will hurt them the most so people start coming up with sexist crap because they think making folun of someone for being a woman is insulting 🙄 Glad she's able to take in on the chin and laugh about cuz at the end of the day they aren't people to be taken seriously and thankfully you're right it is the minority.
Males face the same thing when they're good players, or even just happen to get lucky. Being called gay is a oft-used attack against men. The content and nature of the harassment changes to gender when its a woman, because some believe its the easiest thing to attack. I also think the term harassment is over used, as just sh*t talking isn't really harassment....although it is considered that in many companies or legal situations. But, saying some of the same non-gender based comments with such vitriol as I've heard in chat, would also be considered harassment. Basically what it comes down to is that the person doing the harassment, usually uses something to imply the other person is inferior. To some, gender is an easy target, because it means they don't have to think too hard to be septic towards a person they don't know. If an individual does that, and is so weak to be able to actually be effective in their attempt to bring down others, are they really the kind of people that need to be taken seriously? I know a lot of women who would just roll their eyes at such behavior if it were places outside the internet. They've been doing it for decades. In some situations, they properly call it out, and pursue legal action if it's based on a job. But until recently, people that attacked others in such a way were usually not taken seriously. Now they seem like they are, instead of just laughing at them because they're so ineffectual. My wife plays game too. But doesn't really play online because she doesn't have the time to invest in it. She likes games where you can play for short periods, and not have to think too much on deep stories or complex game play. But, when she did play some games online, which was rare, she just ignored the people that did that. She didn't go out of her way to talk to anyone though, and I'd probably be hard pressed to say she ever did any voice chat with people she didn't know. But she's a highly educated intellect, and doesn't worry about what other people think of her. She's also a lawyer, and if someone actually did do something illegal, she would know how to handle it. Moreso, if she were actually pressed to react, she could tear most people down to tears and the fetal position because she's quite good at picking the right words to really hurt a person's ego and bring to the front what they are, and how pathetic they may be.
How to get into eSports as a female- Step One: Git Gud Step Two: Refer to step one
I know this is going to come off wrong, but who cares? Female or male, they are still gamers, stop labeling people and putting them in boxes. We are just people and we do stuff, that's it. The further you you classify people, the harder it is for people to see each other's similarities.
Can someone please explain to me how this "inappropriate tagging" goes? These "inappropriate" comments are more less the same level of appropriate as other un-tagged comments.
All this did was expose the troll mentality for those who praise female gamers or twitch thots. They'll still be fine in the end, with minimum effort. Lets not act like they actually have hurdles to become a successful streamer. If they have skill they'll make it in esports.
There were female gamers before this incident there will be female gamers after, this is nothing more than milking a story for panderous intentions and its gotten super old. Its just a bunch of BS. There I said it now you can mark my comment inappropriate for sharing my opinion....this site. smh
Just a quick FYI: Most of the "inappropriate" posts are not inappropriate at all. I recommend unhiding them, to evaluate them fairly.
They are "inappropriate" because they oppose the views of the mods. Yeah, it makes sense (for them).
What is disturbing about this is gamers knew they were being lied to and the agenda pushers called them sexist liars. The gamers were right, so the agenda pushers double down. The guy wasn't good enough until he became a she. That's a problem and don't get mad at gamers for not following an agenda.
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