Nicholas takes a look at what he considers a flawed masterpiece in The Order 1886 and explains why he thinks Ready at Dawn did a great job and why The Order 1886 deserves a sequel.
I think so too. There is a lot of potential in the world and lore they created.
There's still a bunch of things in the story that have to be addressed too, but that's because you simply don't blow your wad by revealing everything about the story in the first episode of a series - there'd be no point to making any more if everything was all wrapped up in a pretty little bow at the end of the first one. Some people just didn't seem to understand that.
I think it’s more probable that PlayStation will get one than not - but on PS5.
yes we know. all crappy games deserve a sequel when they are not xbox.
"...you simply don't blow your wad by revealing everything about the story in the first episode of a series" You also don't make a completely nonsensical, plot hole filled, uncompelling, lackluster story in your first episode. Also it would help if your game play and design was actually good. Some people just didn't seem to understand this either.
Of course there are loose ends that warrant a sequel. RaD got more than enough feedback from us, now its up to Sony to give the green($) light.
Story elements not elaborated upon in the first episode of a series != plot hole. You just proved my point.
@ziggurcat Story elements not elaborated on does not make craft a good story structure. Example, you can watch the first original Star Wars movie and have a complete story without needing to see the sequels. The Order doesn't accomplish anything of the sort on any level. Plot holes means a lot more than just leaving things wide open for a potential sequel. You actually just proved my point.
"Story elements not elaborated on does not make craft a good story structure." It is when it's meant to be told over a series of episodes. You don't craft an episodic story to have it all wrapped up, and explained in the first installment. "Example, you can watch the first original Star Wars movie and have a complete story without needing to see the sequels." Because they're standalone stories, not the first episode in a series designed around one, singular story arc. "The Order doesn't accomplish anything of the sort on any level." Because you've not understood that the story wasn't meant to be flushed out completely in the first game... "Plot holes means a lot more than just leaving things wide open for a potential sequel." It's not a plot hole if it's explained/elaborated upon in a future episode... "You actually just proved my point." Was your point an admission that you don't understand how episodic story telling works?
"You don't craft an episodic story to have it all wrapped up, and explained in the first installment." And you don't leave everything and anything so open ended that nothing is answered or settled and having the person wait for it to be explained even further in a sequel. "Because they're standalone stories, " What?? They're standalone movies that are part of a whole trilogy that tell a complete story. They each have plots that expand and are dealt with for each. Hence why they're called Episode 3, Episode 4 and so on. It's the exact type of episodic story telling you just attributed to The Order. Except Star Wars and other movies like it knew how to craft it better and not leave an audience completely baffled or asking too many questions. "...the story wasn't meant to be flushed out completely in the first game..." Yeah, you keep saying that, but that's not how good story telling works. You can make a story with intentions of having sequels, but you don't make such an asinine, bare bone story that leaves everything in the wind just for a sequels sake. "It's not a plot hole if it's explained/elaborated upon in a future episode.." So..hmmmmm...ziggurcat, just so we're clear these are actually plot holes then since we don't have a sequel correct? Glad we settled that.
"And you don't leave everything and anything so open ended that nothing makes sense and making the person have to wait for anything to be explained or further expanded on in a sequel." It would make sense if you understood that it wasn't meant to be wrapped up at the end of the first game. "What?? They're standalone movies that are part of a whole trilogy that have plots that expand and dealt with over each episode. Hence why they're called Episode 3, Episode 4 and so on. It's the exact type of episodic story telling you just attributed to The Order. Except Star Wars and other movies like it knew how to craft it and not leave an audience completely baffled or asking too many questions." They're standalone stories, not parts of the same story told over a series of episodes. "ziggurcat, just so we're clear these are actually plot holes then since we don't have a sequel correct?" No. You're being obtuse again. It just means that the story wasn't allowed to get seen through to the end if a planned sequel is prevented from happening (or if the second episode simply hasn't been made yet), it doesn't mean the unexplained things would then become plot holes.
"You're being obtuse again" No, you're being intentionally ignorant. You don't craft a bare boned story, with almost everything being opened ended, plot points that go nowhere, drab characters that don't grow and so on and say, it'll be explained for the sequel. That's not how good stories or any successful story works and it definitely is not an excuse for games, especially a game that has no sequel to even support your idea.
Zig, I would just move on. He most likely hated all the marvel movies as some of the plots weren't wrapped up until the sequel came out. He most likely hated what Thanos did in not wrapping it all up in avengers infinity war part 1. The Order needs a sequel.
"No, you're being intentionally ignorant." Ignorant of what, gangsta? "You don't craft a bare boned story, with almost everything being opened ended, plot points that go nowhere, drab characters that don't grow and so on and say, it'll be explained for the sequel." You still don't get it...
“Example, you can watch the first original Star Wars movie and have a complete story without needing to see the sequels." Because they're standalone stories, not the first episode in a series designed around one, singular story arc. ” I saw this and i literally laughed out loud. The Star wars movies consist of 3 main story arcs, a trilogy of trilogies as George Lucas called it, and each arc has 3 episodes to tell the story. From star wars 4 to star wars 5 is the continued Arc which is finished at the end of episode 6. You are lying to yourself if you believe the star wars movies are not part of a common story arc and i don’t understand how you got 6 people to agree with that. As to the order, It was a good game, for the $10 i paid for it. I would welcome a sequel, but i’d probably wait till it was $20 before i’d buy it, I would have been disappointed paying more then i did for the first one, so i’m in no rush to buy part 2, unless it gets positive reviews
@krib "You are lying to yourself if you believe the star wars movies are not part of a common story arc and i don’t understand how you got 6 people to agree with that." 💯, that line from him about Star Wars was the hardest SMH I have ever done in my entire life. It would have been even harder if it wasn't for the other gem of plot holes aren't plot holes when they're explained in sequels....even tho The Order has no sequels to explain anything. Anyways, no use going on especially when aksed "how am I ignorant"
I think Recore deserves a sequel too.
Mention ReCore in this thread again plz. My fries need just a little more sodium XD
http://i.picpar.com/Auad.pn... sounds about right for The Order 1886 :)
that's actually funny how that worked out.
I agree. I liked their first attempt at this game and it sets up perfectly for additional chapters (sequels). I don't get the hate for this game. It's not perfect and I dont think it was meant to be. Improvements to its control, game play, story and such are what happens to a follow-up while the first just lays the ground work.
control issues? RDR2 check. gameplay? RDR2 check. Story? RDR2 YAWN!!!! check. make the sequel please. if other games get a by for their bull this game should as well.
Let ND handle it
Only if they don't waste the potential like with the last game.
It has great potential as far as setting and story go, but if it's the same presentation and gameplay, count me out. I'd rather see it moved more in line with a mix of shooter and RPG and definitely way more open of a world. Add in the ability to choose when to be stealthy or guns-a-blazing and it would be even better. Also, let's not have crap boss battles, eh? Just horribly boring events in the first that didn't aid at all in making all those forced cut scenes worth it.
Oh lord you just opened a big can of internet hate on that one... 100% agree with you. lol (shields up)
Seeing as how they really intended the game to be a trilogy (or a series of games, at the very least), a sequel would be welcomed by me. It was quite obvious to me that there's supposed to be more to it than the one game based on how it ended.
Course it does, the world is fantastic but I think they should have gone with the original idea they had with the third person being more like what you see in games like Uncharted rather then the over the shoulder perspective like Gears of War. Feels like you'd have more to work with without the character feeling so heavy, not to mention it feels like it makes more sense for them to be able to easily climb onto things with how the Black Water gives them increased strength, senses, and near-immortality. Doing things like that should be a breeze for them.
As long as it's being made by another team with a stronger emphasis in gameplay because personally I found it mediocre.
Ready at Dawn can make the sequel. It was a new IP, so of course there would be mistakes. They can definitely build upon the first.
Let's not forget it was their first console title that wasn't a port or spin off of another I.P. I'm sure they would improve on the sequel with their experience
Very rich world that has so many possibilities! The lore and characters just seem perfect for this medium.
I love The Order 1886. A game failed by reviewers because they wanted it to be something it wasn't. Ignoring all the good it did if you compare it to games in the same genera. Would be super excited for a sequel.
“A game failed by reviewers because they wanted it to be something it wasn't.” What is the game supposed to be then? Forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t a game supposed to be good in order to receive good score and praise? How are you happy with paying $60 for a 5 hours game?
The vast majority of reviewers expected the game to be something else then what it was. Many expected a heavy cover based shooter. But it was announced from the very beginning that it was a story driven cinematic action game with quick time events. When reviewers then went in "attacking" quick time events. Hating it because of that. It was never going to end good. And it didn't. It's one of the biggest failures of professional reviews I've seen this generation. And as if that wasn't enough more jumped on the "let's hate" The Order: 1886 bandwagon. And the farse was complete. And personally I'd rather pay $60 for a entertaining 5h. Then a 10h game that should have ended after 5...
'A game failed by reviewers because they wanted it to be something it wasn't.' They wanted it to be a good game?
It is a good game. But most reviewers did not like that it was a story driven QTE game.I remember it so well because I was laughing at how idiotic these reviewers where. Those of us who followed the game development knew exactly what to expect and what type of game it would be. So when you see people with many living of reviewing games was totally ignorant to what type of game it was and clearly being irritated by what type of game it was then the farse had gone full circle. It's like sitting down reviewing Telltale games and giving it bad scores because you were expecting a action game and that you hate QTE's.
Yes this needs a sequel so much potential with the characters and story.
I just don't see them making a sequel but I could be wrong.
Same can be said for a lot of Sony IPs
Like Socom and Syphon Filter
Twisted Metal and Motorstorm. And while we’re at it, bring back PS All Star and Puppeteer as well.
It really does! Despite how short it was, it set up a fantastic universe to play in for the future.
I think the major knock of this game was very strong cinematics, but very weak gameplay. The setting and atmosphere, and graphics was fantastic...but gameplay mechanics left a lot to be desired. Pacing was off too. Anytime you have a 5 minute cinematic that's followed 2 minutes of gameplay, only to be immediately followed by another lengthy cinematic... won't sit well with players. They would need to improve gameplay and pacing if a sequel was done.
It probably won't be Ready at Dawn. It'll be a different developer.
Order’s pacing was ahead of its time. Fast forward a few years and critics L-O-V-E gameplay that takes you 15 minutes on a horse to get anywhere, forced walking sections, tap X to sprint, stopping to eat drink clean all the time, weapon paywalls and sluggish controls with major dead zone issues. In 2018 that plus 4K gets ya GOTY LOL! “Good boahhh”!
You doing too much...
Are you seriously comparing Red Dead Redemption 2 to The Order?
Lol, you're bringing up RDR2 with 'forced walking sections'? Really? The Order was shit, get over it.
My first PS4 PLATINUM cliffhanger was disappointing. The game was great other than being too short what problems did reviewers really have with the game?
They wanted it to be Gears of War for some reason.
That's the mistake they made.
No they didnt want it to be a shit game. Which it is.
No they were trying to compare the game with Gears, and got upset when it wasn't.
"...what problems did reviewers really have with the game?" Two werewolf boss fights that play exactly the same Enemy AI that was as dumb as rocks Partner AI that did absolutely nothing Story filled with large gaping plot holes A gameplay feature (blackwater?) that was 100% useless since the only enemy that was the least bit challenging were the armor shotgunners that just run straight towards you Plot made no sense (see gaping holes), a clan devoted to fight werewolved but then the leader of the order allows a werewolf child in because he took pity on it??? The fact that you are a group that fights supernatural enemies and you spend 98% of the game not fighting anything supernatural A short game with no MP being sold for full price But...the graphics were good.
You forget the god awful QTE sections (you do mention the crappy boss battles). That horrible stealth section that seemed two gens old, the constricted level design with no real reason for replayabiility (if you coudl stomach the basic gameplay) etc etc. BUT, I do think a sequel could fix all the wrongs. The setting still has potential. The game doesn't 'deserve' a sequel, because of how crap it is but its setting definitely has potential for sure, esp with the vampires etc.
@Septic The list goes on and on to tell the truth. But I also agree that a sequel is needed just to right those many wrongs and to further the story just so we could get some closure. "esp with the vampires etc." That was one of the biggest let downs of the game, the introduction of vampires and didn't fight not one. Maybe Sony can make the next installment a launch title for the PS5.
This probably isn't going to please PlayStation owners but The Order 1886 did more than most if not all David Cage games. The gunplay was great the visuals were great, the story was entertaining. It didn't need to be Gears of War to be a decent game
A sequel could absolutely fix the MANY issues with the first game, but it probably won’t get made because of sales and general perception of the game. Kind of like after Resistance 2 no one bought Resistence 3 even though that game was incredible.
Definitely. Massive potential in this IP!
Agreed I enjoyed it sure if I bought it for full price I would have felt a little ripped off. But I did enjoy it and I would love a sequel.
the world established has too much potential for not be developed further on a sequel
Fuck yea it does. If you watch the 2013 reveal trailer, and imagine the potential of this being a true non-linear rpg with the phenomenal voice acting and story combined with the amazing world setting, there is a reason expectatipns were high prior to release. (And I’m aware we were never told it was an rpg, however in my opinion rpg’s are what allows for the more realistic connection to the character and immersion to the experience).
No it doesnt the game was beautiful trash, if that exists.
Yes it does.
If Knack can get a sequel this certainly can. Honestly, I enjoyed the game but a sequel could definitely make some huge improvements. Bring on 1887!
It most certainly does. Absolutely.