Red Dead Redemption 2's high input lag may explain why it feels sluggish

Red Dead Redemption 2's controls and general responsiveness have often been criticised by players and critics, and the numbers agree.

[smolinsk]

No way, all Rockstar games has this control scheme and a little clunkyness.

[angelsx]

I can’t believe they hasn’t release update yet.Fix the lag and blurry graphics on PS4 pro and fake HDR.

[HeisenbergX]

what blurry graphics on the Pro ? i'm playing on the pro it looks fantastic

[LegendarySaiyan]

HeisenbergX: Some say that they have blurry background or something while playing on PS4 PRO with SSAA enabled.

I play on PS4 PRO as well and have SSAA enabled, but I can't see any blurriness. Though I have my TV's sharpness setting set on 55/100 so that might be why, I don't know :)

[rainslacker]

Some displays don't handle their version of hdr very well. It's a problem with the meta data they used

[salmonade]

Not all people are having this 'burryness' on the Pro. I'm NOT and have never had it once.

The 'lag' is maybe there or maybe not. All I know is that it is so frustrating when you feed your horse, and you try to do it again and nothing happens, then you have to do it AGAIN and it finally happens. I don't know what the problem is, but it really bothers the sh*t out of me.

[KukwesGaming]

The blurry graphics are seen on large 4k screens. If you are playing on a 1080p tv or on a small 4k screen you will not notice it but it's extremely distracting when you do see it.

[1nsomniac]

Rockstar have already publically acknowledged there is a problem with the graphics on PS4 Pro. It has also been proven by Digital Foundry.

Rockstar have announced they are working on a fix.

[mikeslemonade]

Parity by PS Poor and Xbox 720p is the explanation for the high input lag.

[supes_24]

Lol, I’m playing on the OG PS4 and ther isn’t any blurry graphics. Lmao, good try tho. Someone throwing Bs out there without facts to back it up, all assumptions. Makes you look like an ass and it did

[DrumBeat]

There are far worse issues than that. Such as, the train disappearing from the game world. Characters disappearing from camp.

Entire interactive aspects of the camp like Arthur's shaving kit, the ledger, the contribution box, and even tent tarps disappeared in Chapter 3 of my game and didn't reappear until 4.

The silly image quality nonsense can wait. Not to say it isn't a problem, but it pales in comparison to the game's other issues.

[RedDevils]

maybe it down to having shit tv and not the PS4 pro or the game?

[andibandit]

@Supes_24

"Lol, I’m playing on the OG PS4 and ther isn’t any blurry graphics. Lmao, good try tho. Someone throwing Bs out there without facts to back it up, all assumptions. Makes you look like an ass and it did"

the issue occurs specifically on PS4 Pro,
R* are working on it: https://rockstarintel.com/r...

no BS.
Actual fact.
No assumptions.
only one person here looks like an ass.

[lelo2play]

How can it be?
Most reviewers claimed the game is a perfect masterpiece... with all those 10's across the board.

[FunAndGun]

I have never seen a game scored so high, but need rules to 'play it properly'. Change these settings in the menu, take off auto aim, steer it like this, enter the button prompts like this, move like that. Eat and pet your horse after missions so it's less like a chore.
... it's a GOTY masterpiece if you play it like that, and if you still don't enjoy it then you are not playing it slow enough and taking in all the details.

[thepluggy]

except Digital Foundry who actually said it was a botched job on the ps4 pro.

[Flewid638]

So you admit it's there, but say no way? lol. I'm so confused.

[smolinsk]

No way to it being input lag, just clunky controls, the way all Rockstar games are

[datnendongnai]

Don't worry ^^

[n1kki6]

A little clunkyness?!?!?!?! The game controls like trash and is super unresponsive. GTA V feels like the greatest controlling game of all time in comparison.

[dennigo]

he's 100% right, it's not your tv it's their game:
https://www.youtube.com/wat...
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[moomoo319]

11ms response time is still very, very fast.
Thats good enough to play an online fps, and most TVs are not giving you better than 15ms response time anyway unless u specifically get a low input-lag tv or monitor.

Also, turning off deadzone and aim acceleration in the settings can help with precision.

[AspiringProGenji]

That is awful for an FPS

[moomoo319]

What response time do you think the 20million+ cod players are working with every year?? Most normal tvs are 20ms or more and they seem to do just fine, doesnt seem awful to all these people. Maybe if your doing keyboard/mouse on a 2ms monitor.

[FPS_D3TH]

Good thing it’s not really a first person shooter then and just an option

[RememberThe357]

The input lag is for movement not aiming. They didn't even test aiming in the video. Maybe actually click on the source when the article sucks.

[Flewid638]

Only if you cant git gud.

[Vhampir]

No it's not, 1 FRAME @60 fps is 16ms. So inRDR2 it's impossible to have anything faster than 32ms. The author either doesn't understand what they themselves have read or it's an error. RDR2 has 11 FRAMES of input lag, and it runs at 30 FRAMES per second. So it's around 350ms of input lag, not 11ms.

I don't think ANY ps4 game is under 4 frames of input lag either.

[DerekTweed]

11ms is a frequency of 90Hz, it means that at 60FPS (60Hz or 16ms) you won't even notice the delay because the frames don't even change that fast.

[moomoo319]

TL;DR
considering this game isnt on PC, and most TVs struggle to get under 20ms response time, this number will not make a shit bit of difference to most of you

[frostypants]

Ssshhh. Need to let the technology muggles dust off the pitchforks from time to time.

[-T9X-69-]

As primararly a PC gamer, I use a monitor for my PS4 and the first thing I do (even on consoles) before I play a game is go straight into the settings and adjust things to my liking. I'm not understanding the "sluggish" control issues people are having unless they're using the default. I've completely the game (currently at 88.9%) and the only real issue I've ran into is certain prompts not popping up. Using R1 to cycle through 5 prompts due to stacked bodies or tons of items never bothered me, but standing next to a bed and only the prompt to open the nightstand pops up, is rather annoying. But shooting, moving, running etc I have no issues with. It could be because I've been playing video games since the early 90s, but even if I take a break from any of Rockstars titles and go back months or years later and play them, I never have an issue with the controls.

[dennigo]

you have no idea how response time works do you? the input lag adds to the already present response time of your monitor

[RabbitFly]

Well I don't think this testing is very accurate to begin with. One would have to account for the baseline lag of the monitor itself.

But as Destiny 2 tested at 1ms one can assume that the 10ms increase of Red Dead Redemption would have to be added on top of the input lag of your monitor.

So most big screen TVs have a hard time getting below 20ms and if you add 10ms to that, we are starting to get into dangerous territory.

Now I am not saying this is a deal breaker, and I am not one of those hating on the game for it's less responsive controls. Most of that comes from design desicions and is a viable way to make your game/controls.

However 30-50ms is where people will start to notice the lag to a high degree. Unless of course they are accostumed to high input lag from before. I. e. People that play on 40-60ms tvs might not notice it as much. Some types of games are also much more sensitive to input lag. FPS is more sensitive than TPS f. ex. And over that one will find music and rythm games. These are, arguably, unplayable on even 30ms input lag.

[moomoo319]

Ah ok so this recorded input lag would be added on to your tv's number? that would be a problem since a lot of people game on regular TVs with bad input lag already. Im saying my 4k tv is 14ms input lag and i couldnt find any lower, so that 11ms number seemed negligable

[MadLad]

Fake news.

I'd hate playing a shooter at that latency. Just saying.

[I_am_Batman]

Except that the game doesn't have 11ms of input lag to begin with. 1ms is 1/1000 second. That's not what the number on the display is showing. It's a frame counter meaning that it's not 11 ms but 11 frames which adds up to around 363ms of input lag @ 30fps.An average of 11ms is technically impossible to achieve under 90fps and even then it would need to have a lag of 1 frame. Even the most responsive games on console have around 66ms of lag (~4 frames @60fps).

11 frames @ 30fps is actually really bad though but it doesn't say much without knowing the display-lag of the monitor.

[moomoo319]

But in the article it says milliseconds and in the video it appears to be counting ms as well, tho he doesnt specify. Honestly not sure if its frames but i dont think so.

[I_am_Batman]

Well the article writer doesn't know what he is talking about. It's 100% frames not ms. Even if you know nothing about input lag it's easy to see.

Look at the video parts that aren't slowed down. If it were ms (meaning milliseconds aka a thousandth of a second) it would count 1000ms per second which it obviously doesn't even come close to. Then watch the slowed down parts it counts 1 per new frame meaning it counts the frames.

If it were 11ms it would easily be the lowest input lag a game has had on consoles this generation (probably even the lowest a console game has ever had). Like I said the most responsive games have just under 4 frames @60fps meaning ~66ms. In other words if it was anywhere near 11ms this article wouldn't exist.

So yeah it is 11 frames for a 30fps game which is extremely high. I have to say though that measuring the input lag with the analog stick is a bad idea because you don't take potential deadzones into account. If the deadzones are relatively large it might be that the game "only" has 10 or 9 frames of lag because it takes the player 1-2 frames to move the stick out of the deadzone. 9 frames would still be very bad but testing the input lag with a button connected to an LED would've resulted in a much more accurate measurement.

[Imortus_san]

Its 11 frames of input lag and not 11 ms.
The game runs at 30fr per second, so one frame is 33ms, 11 frames of input lag are 11x33 = 363ms of input lag, that's way worse then the Tomb Raider got at launch (200ms).

Just see the video after 1m50s, it's there stating 11 frames of delay not 11 ms.

[authentic]

It's 11 frames...not 11ms. Since the game runs at 30fps, one frame is 33.3ms. The input lag would be 33.3x11, which is 366.3ms. Atrocious. Quit giving out info if you don't know what you're talking about. My two cents, chief.

[moomoo319]

Would assume your talking to the author and creator of the video, who both presented it as milliseconds, "chief"

[DarkKaine]

You're on n4g. Of course everyone here has a low latency monitor. Also 11ms isn't great at all. I wouldn't be able to play smash bros melee with those amounts of lag. What you're seeing here is the result of either post processing or a way too low polling rate. Good responsive controls are the core of any solid action game. Bringing a wavebird to a smash tourney is a surefire way to raise some eyebrows.
It's funny how we get more and more delay over the years. Maybe they are preparing us for what we're supposed to expect when everything eventually runs from the cloud lol

[moomoo319]

Its mostly new TVs and their post-processing effects that cause major input lag, thats why people still have smash tourneys on CRTVs lol

[Kabaneri]

I got killed by a random cougar like 10 times just because I couldnt draw and shoot quick enough.

[rdgneoz3]

Easiest way to deal with cougars (or panthers) is just run around on your horse. You'll see the red dot on your mini map from a good distance away (I've gotten mauled on foot without ever seeing a dot, but on horse they get spotted right away and marked). Either Dead Eye and tag it's head with a rifle while on your horse or if you get kicked off, immediately dead eye as you're standing and tag it's head. Cougars never attack you on your horse and will just stalk around you till you fall off and stand up, at which point they'll go and try to attack (though you still have a few seconds to dead eye a headshot). Hardest part I've had with cougars is finding a 3 star, everything I find is 1 or 2 stars (last thing I need for the last satchel)...

[KukwesGaming]

you can dead eye with out weapon drawing and this is the best way to do it.

[gazgriff2k12]

feels fine to me.

[RememberThe357]

This is an article for haters damn it! Get the hell out!

[nowitzki2004]

lol. stay in yo lane

[TeamIcoFan]

I love how the rockstar fanboys are giving them a free pass for something they'd shred other games to pieces for.

[AspiringProGenji]

Supposedly Uncharted has bad aiming mechanics but Rockstar games? Nah they’re fine. Pfff

[TeamIcoFan]

I wonder what GTAV's response time is?
If it's half that of RDR2 then there is no excuse, Rockstar needs to fix this.

[SierraGuy]

Controls are fun·da·men·tal

"forming a necessary base or core; of central importance".

How can something be considered goty when the fundamental base or core building blocks have been compromised?

[FPS_D3TH]

Feels gr8 m8.

Git Gud

Laughable some of you “gamers” can’t even open an options menu to fix some of these “problems” you have with the controls.

[InTheZoneAC]

exactly. It's like this in most game, people simply don't know what an options menu is. When I was a kid I would find myself always going to the settings first to adjust to my liking, now idgits need the game to do everything for them without an extra thought process.

[FPS_D3TH]

Right? It’s hilariously sad that people are getting upset about default settings and game movement that puts physics before anything else. I find it’s a mark of quality you don’t find in other games. It’s the trademark rockstar feel. Every input has a consequence, each step is in itself is a calculated movement. It’s as clunky as you are bad at the game controls. Over time you get better. Anyone remember how rough Max Payne 3 was the first time people started that game? By a few levels in and I was pulling off ballet like gun battles though.

[Skankinruby]

I am no rockstar fanboy, not even a little bit. I've always found their games to be insanely overrated pretentious bullshit(Oh my GOD GTA 5). But RDR2 is fantastic, after all these years they finally learned how to write a damn script that doesn't make me cringe.

[Flewid638]

Bully and RDR2 are the only Rockstar games I ever liked.

Didnt even like the first RDR and I tried it like, 3 times lol

[InTheZoneAC]

GTA Vice City, San Andreas, 4, and 5 all had great campaigns

[Realms]

The same reason Bethesda can't be bordered to upgrade their god damn engine, people making excuses is the reason for Fallout 4 feeling like a last gen game as does RDR2. All I know is that RDR2 is clunky as hell no way around it even tweaking the settings won't do all that much other than slightly improve things here and there. The game is good but damn there are even some nasty game breaking bugs that cut chunks of the game out. They need to patch this game up ASAP but won't because they are to busy counting how much money they will make with RDR2 online which is obviously their priority right now instead of patching the game for a better experience.

[-T9X-69-]

The controls are subjective, but don't lie and spread misinformation. There is not "nasty game breaking bugs that cut chunks of the game out". There's a SINGLE bug that causes multiple NPCs to not appear in camp between Chapter 2 and 4. As in roaming around, missions for them are still all there. The "cut chunks of the game" is literally optional dialog between speaking to those characters at your camp. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Realms]

My point is that there are issues that haven't been addressed and yet Rockstar is to busy with RDR2 online to fix these issues. I personally haven't had the bug that was found but there are likely more given how massive the game is so no I'm not lying, it's not just missing NPC's some people never get the tutorial for fishing that cut's that content out and there more bugs that set your horse on fire. The game does have issues even if you think they are no big deal.

[bignosepig]

I don't think "input lag" is the proper term used. It gives the impression that the game was having difficulty responding in time. But I think it just adds to the realism, personally for me. But I can't say I like it this way with 100% honesty. The controls aren't perfect, but I still think it's a great game

[rainslacker]

Realism isn't represented when your character doesn't react almost instantly to your commands. I also don't think it has to do with input lag. Just the way the animations are set up

[DrumBeat]

I think you're right. It's mostly the animations. They're slow, and they're purposely slow. R* want you to masturbate to these animations. It's a matter of art taking precedence over fluidity, and by extension, game play. It's a beautiful game, but it's frustrating, and nigh unresponsive at times.

Before I'm accused of being a Call of Duty, twitch game play loving loser who can't appreciate what R* has done here, I'm going to tell them that they're wrong. Still, this game's animation system completely flies in the face of quick execution and input. I have good reflexes, so I want to 'snappily' bring up the weapon wheel, select my item, release LB, and see my action carried out. That very seldom works in this game. You have to 'slow yourself down' for the game, so that the game does what you tell it to. The quick reflex cashiers are going to have a nightmare playing this game, because they have to slow themselves down to accommodate IT.

That sucks.

That out of the way, they should address the more glaring, game breaking bugs this game has before anything else.

[salmonade]

Sorry, but the is BULLCRAP. Adds the the realism? Bullcrap. In reality if I want to feed my horse twice in a row, I don't have to wait a whole 5 seconds before feeding him a second time with the same damn thing I fed him the first time.

[-T9X-69-]

So when you take a bite of food you don't take a whole 5 seconds to chew? Have you ever heard the term "You chew like a horse"? So yes, in this case it adds to realism. You can't shove a pile of hay into a horses mouth and then immediately serve another portion after. The animations put into the game are trying to be as realistic as possible. Thus the pacing is a lot slower. If that's not for you, don't play the game. It's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the players preferences.

[badboyz09]

can a Patch fix it?

[Vanfernal]

Street Fighter V had a patch for input lag not too long ago. But it's up to the developers to fix it. The way this game is selling, I doubt they'll even bother.

[Kaiou]

"It’s worth keeping in mind that not all high input lag can necessarily result in a worse experience."

sorry what ??

[Strange_Evil]

Honestly, I feel the lengthy animations add to the problem. The game actually feels like a 5 year old game in terms of lengthy animation and input lag which kinda makes sense as it started back then and input is the first thing you try to address.

Coming from playing Spiderman, the game just feels like all my interactions are sluggish. I love the game but it definitely could use a patch to either quicken the animation and/or reduce the input lag a little.

[rainslacker]

Too true. Outside of getting caught in the environment, is seems like spider man reacts how you want him to 95% of the time.

Rdr2 does maybe 50% of the time, but it still just kind of plods along in the response.

[pyroxxx]

Well Spider-Man is a superhero,.. but I argee ,.. the level of controll you have in Spiderman is just perfect,.. RDR2 is clunky and slow as hell ,.. Especially when there is no transition between walking running animation,.. it is so explosive you really have to pay attention especially in Saint Denis,.. feels almost as bad as witcher movement.-- but I got used to it,.. since it is a shooter. Witcher3 bothers me more for some reason,.. especially since we have Bloodborne, Souls etc.

[Bane35]

Well R* haven't release no patch yet so who knows when theses problems will be address

[DarXyde]

Sounds like reviewers really gave this game a pass because it's R*.

In what realm (beyond, say, turn based) is high input lag acceptable?

[l33t_haxx0r]

Nope feels the same as every other rocks tar game, they just need to sort out there crappy game engine

[InTheZoneAC]

it's the same as it was in GTA and in RDR1, go to your settings and turn off deadzone, Then mess with sensitivity to your liking

[Enturax]

Surprised I haven't seen such an article about GoW.

[franwex]

Bad controls too? I have yet to play.

[Tankbusta40]

Edit:sorry you were asking about gow... Which I haven't played

[SierraGuy]

GOW, Spiderman, HZD all more responsive than this mess.

It's a beautiful game...the controls are terrible though.

[Enturax]

GoW had a big input lag. Though, it was most likely intended there.

[Father Murder X]

that's not by design?

[Tankbusta40]

Playing on a One X myself, but is the fog supposed to be in this game? I swear for hours on end it looks like I'm playing a California wild fire... Is that a product of the broken HDR?

[Imortus_san]

This guy must have been sleepy when he made this news, its 11 frames of input lag and not 11 ms.
This game runs at 30fr per second, so one frame is 33ms, 11 frames of input lag are 11x33 = 363ms of input lag, that's way worse then the Tomb Raider got at launch (200ms).

Just see the video after 1m50s, it's there stating 11 frames of delay not 11 ms.

[D3athc3ll]

Learn to play games ffs. This game is a masterpiece in every way. You just shit at games! Damn I should make a walk through on youtube and you'll see how easy it looks. Get Good!!

[PurpHerbison]

Input lag doesn't matter to casuals.

[DrumBeat]

This is a game where quick actions often aren't input when the player executes them. If you're too fast, and not at a complete trot or halt, your horse won't get fed. Even if you are, gun switching, tonic taking, and other inputs sometimes fail completely. It's very frustrating that players with good reflexes can't be snappy with the interface because either the interface won't allow it, or because of dumb rules like being at a dead stop.

[TheGrimReaper]

I have to admit, yeah it feels a tad too slow... But it isn't that bad.

[ShockUltraslash]

What a mediocre game.
This level of incompetence in 2018.

[Count_Bakula]

It's also just general animations they've chosen to be slow and long. I Don't think it'd be a big deal to patch in him walking faster, not have a to take 8 seconds to hitch horse, loot and pick up bodies and carcasses faster, ect. Doesn't need much, just a touch.

[GameStallion]

Good article.

[MrBobSugar]

How many times do I HAVE TO HIT THE F#%*@G BUTTON!!!!

[dimasok]

The game is shit to begin with. Clunky controls, no player agency in story missions, broken bounty system, bad chapter 5 and onwards main content, animations that take forever, dead static world, etc

Not sure what the fanboys are up in arms about. The controls are only part of what makes this game utter shite and a waste of 8 years of development and countless crunch hours.

Odyssey is a way better game and it only took a year or so to make so R* truly fucking sucks

Its a miracle that they have enough shills to buy their outdated crap so they can continue enslaving their people for years to focus on skinning animations and lighting instead of bringing the game back from 2008 where all of their games are stuck (with the exception of MP3 which ironically sold like shit)

[iistuii]

It feels so sluggish cause its running in the 20's

[EpicFruityPie]

Graphics? mine are fine
controls, no idea what people are talking about.
fix the look of the game? how about we fix the 4 characters I've never seen since first camp, fix the game breaking bugs first that's what I'm waiting for.

[TheEroica]

It doesn't play sluggish... Only in the camps where you have to walk slowly... Otherwise, 10 hours in and you're playing with the same agility of RDR1.