Why is Red Dead Redemption 2 Still Using Rockstar's Ancient Control Scheme?

USGamer: “Red Dead Redemption 2's controls didn't bother me. Despite that, I do think Rockstar Games should take some time and rebuild its foundation from the ground up. Every now and then, a developer should ask, "Is this the best way for a player to interact with this world? Is this achieving the feeling I want the player to have?" My guess is Rockstar is focused on the latter, but more time and thought should be given to the former. When you're working an evolutionary control scheme that's a decade old, there's room to step back and do a soft reboot. Asking these questions results in better games for everyone.”

[Profchaos]

I don't see a problem with it. I'd say it's better because it's not playing the game for you like assassin's Creed does now and the controls feel right as it gives the characters much more weight to their motions

[Dark_Knightmare2]

I’m actually tired of seeing this excuse like who moves like Morgan in real life lol no one the controls are just bad. You can love a game and still criticize it which is good so things can be improved instead of acting like everything is okay. I’m loving my playthrough of rdr 2 but the controls no matter what the excuse are bad,the gunplay is mediocre and sloppy with dead eye being the only saving grace for making it tolerable,the survival mechanics are superflous and an annoyance,the day to night cycle is bad and could really use some work,the menu system is convoluted and horrible,too many buttons that have multiple uses and the main mission design is the same we’ve seen in rockstar games for over a decade now they need to think up something better. The good is the world it just feels so alive and I love all the little detail and touches that they put in,the story and characters are so far very believable and I love just moseying around camp talking to people,listening to conversations and playing dominoes and blackjack,I love the little stories you come across in the abandoned shacks and piecing them together to come up with what you think happened and the hunting could almost be it’s own game. I would easily give this an 8.5 or 9 but imo it’s def no 10

[Kyizen]

Assassin Creed Odyess is great. You can climb everything but it still feels real like if you hit a spot that no ledge or a rock that looks unclimbable you need to move over or around it. If you remember AC 1 and how you climbed it so so bad now. Imagine if they never updated it?

[zahdab]

No it doesnt look right in many cases u can climb surfaces with no ledges ... there is a giant statue i climbed had very smoth surfaces and my character gripped on nothing... previous assassin creeds where much more accurate with climbing animations .... also ac controls feel childish like auto pilot not sayin rdr controls great ... just fits the gameplay style where everything is manual

[RabbitFly]

The climbing in AC 1 was objectively better than the one we have in the current iteration of AC. The animation blending has being going down hill since AC III.

You have to remember what AC 1 was. A shell of a game with an engine entirely built around the idea of blending animations climbing buildings.

The system however was reworked for AC III and has never been the same again. Odyssey and Origins are of course different games with a much different focus. And they are probably better than AC 1 in almost every way. Climbing is not one of them however.

[sazselesbon]

"as it gives the characters much more weight to their motions" I really don't understand why people fell for this "adds weight" argument or got used to bad controls because of this excuse. I always prefer snap controls and fast movements. Pressing a button and seeing my character complete the movement half a second later because of realistic animations breaks the immersion for me. But I haven't played RDR2 yet, so I'll let the jury speaks first.

[Kyizen]

I havent played RDR2 yet also saz but there has been multiple outlets and reviewers talking about tank like controls. ACG nailed it best just cause he os carrying 25lbs of gear doesnt mean he has to move like it. It is a game after all. And Zahdab AC1 climbing was awful go back and play it. Realistic isnt better. Zelda climbing freedom is going to take over. I love uncharted and Horizon but climbing when you see 'yellow' markers is dumb and takes me out of the game world.

[zahdab]

@kyien, it's really a preference and you can prefer games that have arcady controls or streamlined mechanics that u press a button and does 10 things and that's totally fine, doesnt mean that everyone has the same preference. i dumped AC odyssey in favor of playin rdr2 ... AC has so many annoyances that bring the game down, RDR2 is very meticulous about the details and I appreciate that and the game wants u to appreciate every action u do and set a certain tone.

not saying that RDR is a sim, but many people prefer sim racing games to arcade racing games and vice versa.

[RabbitFly]

The question is rather why don't you?

This is a design choice and it has always been a design choice. Arcady vs. realistic. The argument now seems to be going in direction that controls have to be super responsive and arcady to be considered good.

Everyone can have a preference, but weighty animation systems and controls serve a purpose. Pretending like it doesn't is either ignorant or dishonest.

[--bienio--]

No problems. Release game on Pc and mods fix everything.

[Inzo]

You'd expect the devs to do that.

[bluefox755]

They absolutely will, they're not gonna pass on that cash cow.

[Eidolon]

Didn't happen with the first one.

[zahdab]

No problem keep waiting while the rest of us enjoy the game

[TheHunter81]

I was thinking the same thing but I’m on PS4. I doubt they would allow mods

[Cobra951]

I imagine they will, once they've raked in as much money as possible on the more secure consoles. Don't hold your breath, though. It may take a while, and there's always the possibility it won't happen at all.

[Inzo]

I see a lot of complaint articles the last couple of days which begs the question, why did RDR2 get so many perfect scores?

[Greg2801]

Because people complain about stupid things.
There is nothing wrong with the controls or the pace of this game.
Its not bad just because YOU dont like it.

Just adapt get used to it, dont try to rush or button mash trough everything.

[Araragifeels]

The complain are reasonable. I hate that I have to keep going back to my horse to get my weapons. Or how sometimes my horse get out of control which by mistake, I hit someone and end up getting a huge bounty.

[Dark_Knightmare2]

The controls are fundamentally bad though no matter what justification fanboys try to give and the combat is mediocre and only saved by dead aim.

[FPS_D3TH]

I agree. You get used to the game control schemes. There’s weight and physics in your step. This isn’t a hollow turn on a dime lack of physics Ubisoft game or most other games that don’t put any effort into physics. You get used to it or you don’t. It’s just that in this day and age, instead of getting good at it, you can just whine about it and demand to fix something that isn’t broken. Just different.

[P_Bomb]

Dead zone isn’t a stupid complaint. Lag’s a classic gripe in gaming along with graphic breakup, frame drops, screen tearing etc. TV’s even have game modes to help with input response time. It’s real. https://streamable.com/oc4j...

Speaking of button mashing, it would’ve been nice to have some LS analog sensitivity to offset the X/A.

[Deepfryry]

Couldn't agree more. This is way overblown. A little fidgeting with the pretty in depth control options and I am enjoying the combat a lot more now, as well. The cover system is the only thing I have a little problem with and that's just because it's a different more dynamic cover system. The controls aren't BAD. This isn't kill switch/gears of war where the only thing you can do is shoot and cover.

[Realms]

@D3TH_D33LR

It's not that I have a problem with the game, hell I got used to the Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 but come on those games came out 3 years ago. You would expect that Rockstar with all their resources would improve their physics engine, I'm not saying MGS5 is a better game but go play that game and see how the movement feels in comparison to RDR2. Then with a straight face tell me that you wouldn't want that kind of movement and freedom in RDR2.

[abstractel]

IMO the 10s were already settled before they even got a review copy. The two preview videos had every outlet raving and I had no doubt they were going to go back on that. I do question their openness and sincerity when reviewing this game.

[Killa78]

Rockstar hype, they crafted a very authentic world but not much else.

[CaptainOmega]

@shaggy

Eating wasn't a requirement of the game in SA. That's the problem.

How is keeping all of the guns on a horse any more realistic than keeping them on his person?? --- it's not.

[Cobra951]

shaggy2303: Wait--you're required to eat? Ugh! Are you required to go to the latrine too? Not all realism is welcome in a game.

BeardedDrachen: I can see that, though. A horse can carry a lot more than a person can.

[yomfweeee]

Same thing should be asked of Zelda. Big time games seem to have their worst parts completely ignored when it comes to review score.

[Dark_Knightmare2]

Hype same with gta 4 and now look at how that’s looked at all these years later

[chiefJohn117]

Outside of poor car controls what was bad about gta4?

[Dark_Knightmare2]

@chiefjohn117 almost everything I’m not going to list them all but if you go to google you’ll find plenty of articles detailing them. I mean damn there’s been reviewers who reviewed it and gave it a ten who have apologized and said if they could do it over again they wouldn’t give it a ten.

[SheenuTheLegend]

it shows how our so called reviewers truly review the game instead of the name.
the gameplay is the first thing and the story is the second.
its a disaster to see people rating the story instead of the gameplay these last few years.
sure we need better stories to keep players motivated for the game but you cant forget gameplay.
Our so called reviewers also gave black ops 4 high ratings and guess what, it still has no dedicated servers.
the first few shots are never shot. how disgusting that is no it is not my internet's fault , if you dont live in US or europe, you will get high lag in every stupid call of duty. Uncharted 4 also had p2p which was very lame from sony at that time.
every online game with no dedicated servers should receive a 0 rating coz it directly effects gameplay.it is 2019 almost. it is like being on nintendo wii in 2019 where you had to enter a specific number to add or play with a player online

I still like most games. but our reviewers need to step up and not overlook the basic aspect of a game that is gameplay. and any game that hurts that aspect needs to be downvoted.

[MadLad]

Because the faux journalists found a new avenue for clicks for the next few weeks. I used to write for a number of sites. Some of those sites held you to ridiculous quotas which, ultimately, stifled creativity and well thought out content, in favor of the easily digestible non-content you can churn out in an hour or so.
This is an example of that - non-content they just have to parrot from other sites doing the exact same thing.

[PapaBop]

Probably because the reviewers are those who appreciate the style of game RDR 2 is and evaluate it based upon the developer's creative vision and implementation. The game clearly isn't designed around having mass appeal, you wouldn't get a Call of Duty fanatic to review it just like nobody would want me to review the new Forza game as I don't appreciate racing sims. Having said that though, I'm sure some scores are based upon the initial open world wonder as we just don't see games with this level of detail. It'd be interesting to see follow up reviews say six months down the line from the people who gave the game a perfect score, I'm sure some of them would change their tune.

[Inzo]

"The game clearly isn't designed around having mass appeal"

You completely lost me at this sentence.

[PapaBop]

^^ Then no wonder you probably don't enjoy the game if it's that easy to lose you.

Deliberately slow pace, a lot of small tasks to accomplish, none of these things are the sort of game design decisions that would appeal to say all the people who bought GTA. There are a fair few little things like this which none of the big publishers would implement in their games that they hope will sell as many copies as possible.

[FPS_D3TH]

People can’t be bothered to put in effort to learn new control schemes. It’s literally nothing else but that.

[Inzo]

I dont think that is true, I have seen other articles complain about many other problems and I myself have found it frustrating on a few occasions. For instance when I lasso a horse and on occasion my lasso would just drop off and the horse would bolt. Little things like that that creep in to cause one big frustration.

[MrVux000]

The same reason BOTW got many perfect scores.

Fear of fanatic-backlash.

[stupidusername]

Or maybe they just loved the game like me and appreciated all the extra details that differentiate it from most other games.

[InKnight7s]

The same reason why Zelda get that too.

[spicelicka]

Because it's fuckin amazing. Every highly rated game gets these.

[chiefJohn117]

Because there's nothing wrong with the controls

[ANIALATOR136]

Because there's nothing wrong with it.

[ClayRules2012]

For many it seems to be an issue. Not hating on those complaining about the bad controls.

It’s not an issue for me personally. I got used to them. Aside from hitting trees while riding my horse or my horse tripping over something lol. But I genuinely have no issues with the shooting (don’t find it sloppy or bad) I remember to select my weapons before getting off my horse & don’t see a problem with the camp stuff. Haven’t done fishing yet. But I like the realism of getting a carcass to the butcher before it decays and the other little details. Guns jamming up on you & just having to take care of them is a nice touch.

That’s just my take. But I’m genuinely sorry for those that aren’t enjoying the game because of the controls.

[pyroxxx]

I hated it so much for about 25 hours,.. especially menu navigation,.. (I'd choose few different buttons here and there,.. but once it clicks with you ,.. It just clicks,..) I dif fiddle with acceleration and deadzone quite a bit though)

[chris235]

they went for eye candy rather than building things from the ground. building things from the ground is very cost intensive, you know. costs need to be kept low and the income high for it to become a lucrative business. if you don‘t do that you don‘t have a business. yep, gaming is no charity, it‘s a business.

[King_Noctis]

“they went for eye candy rather than building things from the ground. ”

Wtf does that even mean? How does the game exist if they didn’t build it from the ground up?

[Gridknac]

It means they focused on the graphics hardcore and then copy and pasted the R* patented control scheme. When in fact a new button scheme should have been designed "from the ground up" for this game.

[FPS_D3TH]

You know it doesn’t bother me at all. I can see where my character is at all times and while nothing I press is immediate, I can see my actions playing out in front of me. I think the game that bothered people the most with this weighted control scheme was Max Payne 3 where most people needed or demanded immediate button pressing action, but the game required you to watch max’s weighted movements play out. Getting into cover was understandably frustrating to some because of the time it took to get into cover. This was no gears of war wall bouncing bs. I honestly loved it all though. Max Payne 3 is one of my favorite third person shooters ever. Rockstars approach to character movement is to give it a cinematic and realistic feel. It only irks people who require instant reactions to their game and can’t adapt. In other words.

Git gud.

[MadLad]

Max Payne 3 still holds as my absolute favorite third-person shooter, so I really thought the weight to the movement with that one did it well.

[FPS_D3TH]

I really liked it too but it was conflicting for a lot of people. The games gorgeous and the battles look epic but for some, a game about speed and precision, found the character movement to be clumsy. You get used to it though and I ended up really embracing it. Ended up with several top 10 leaderboard times for New York minute mode and dominated online.

[fluxmulder]

Look at what people are coming from before this game: Spiderman, AC Odyssey. It must feel like they're controlling a tank in RDR2. Personally it didn't bother me.

[FPS_D3TH]

I had the exact same thought too. It’s been 5 or 6 years since the last rockstar game release. None of these controls are “new”. It’s just not the normal standard controls their used to because no other company makes physics such a priority. Especially this current console generation. I’m sensing a lot of PC butthurt here or kids playing something other than fortnite and asscreed.

[notachance]

noope,

I've platinumed Bloodborne and all Dark Souls, 600+ hours of playing all kinds of weapons from lance to DB in MHW, and even I can see the controls in this game are subpar.

Even the simple hold A/X to sprint decision is idiotic because then you have to 'claw' if you want to control the camera while sprinting, they didn't even make different speed for different left analog push. The default dead zone and camera acceleration settings are way too slow, even a fat guy like me didn't take few seconds if I want to switch looking from left to right. The idiotic auto centering camera when on a horseback is one of the problems too.

By now I've gotten used to the controls so I don't have a problem at all with the default control, but gotten used to it doesn't mean the game get a free pass and everyone else got a 'whiny kid' label, I'm not a Rockstar employee you see. You need to differentiate between whining people and justified criticism, as it is currently the game needs tampering on almost all of its setting to make the controls a little bit proper.

[FPS_D3TH]

All that complaining when you could just git gud.

For a supposed souls weeb it’s laughable you can’t open the options menu to fix most of these issue you have with the game.

Imagine “criticizing” a game about its controls because it wasn’t specifically tailored to you. Entitlement ho!

[notachance]

like I said, a game can't just get a free pass just because I can handle the control

learn to see the game objectively instead of labeling other people who think different than you

[MadLad]

People are really stretching to harp on this game more than is warranted.
Look ... I don't really like the game; and I was a giant fan of the original. They bogged this one down with obtuse, needless content and mechanics in the attempt at "realism". For me, it was detrimental to the experience. But nobody went at Rockstar for any previous release that had the same sort of feel to the movement. If it was a non-issue then, it should be a non-issue now. It's a staple, of sorts, to the Rockstar brand at this point.

[CaptainOmega]

People are making it an issue now. So how can you say it's not an issue now?

[MadLad]

I'm saying why now, when this was true for their last three games prior, it's a deliberate design decision, though now it's a perceived flaw?

[lellkay]

The controls and camera definitely tarnish an otherwise great experience. I had a long fiddle with the camera settings and got them feeling wayyy better, but the movement is still clunky.

[fluxmulder]

I didn't have any problems with the default controls. I think people coming from faster open world games do though. If it's that much of a problem, tweak them in the options menu.

[FPS_D3TH]

Exactly. I can’t think of any game that uses the same euphoria engine as rockstar so for how often they release games, it’s jarring for some but I find it makes their games stand out. It’s hilarious and sad to see so many complaints about a game’s controls not being specifically tailored to their preferences.

[InTheZoneAC]

Ancient? Works just fine and I don't think it needs changing just for the sake of it. Stop crying because its not on pc.

[TheHunter81]

So far it’s the only flaw IMO. I can’t stand how it forces your character to walk slow through camp and other areas. What can I say I’m lazy xd. Constantly tapping X is annoying.

[adaminoregon]

Hoping we get some options to speed up some things. Can I just have my weapons on me please? Going to the horse is realistic, but I want to play not spend a minute everytime I get off the horse getting weapons. Can we skip the skinning like in the last game? It was cool the first couple times, but man it drags. How about an option to cook/craft multiple items at a camp, not one at a time. That takes forever. Want splint point bullets? Have 15 minutes to hold down x? C'mon Rockstar. I get what you are going for, but c'mon this is a video game. I can handle some unrealistic stuff to help out the fun factor.

[C-H-E-F]

if it aint broke don't fix it.

[Good-Smurf]

I hated GTA V controls and to think RDR2 is even worse than that is inexcusable,they took 8 years to make RDR2 just make it a great game not just western bandit simulator if they so damn amazing about what they do,clearly they put the focus on the wrong horse.
8 years and they can't get the controls right...
And the gunplay looked really slow,I'd rather play Call of Juarez Gunslinger sure it's arcade style but that was fun as hell.

[SegaGamer]

Like with any game, you get used to the controls. My favourite game (Shenmue) is criticised for its controls, but once you get used to it, you don't notice it anymore.

[Skankinruby]

I have absolutely no problems with the controls in this game I have no clue what all these people are going on about. This game is fantastic, by far rockstar's best game to date screw GTA

[Jls1]

People buy it regardless of issues. Why would they fix it if people still buy it lol.

[stupidusername]

Because it would sell more?
I don’t think Rockstar themselves thought that the control scheme was ancient when they made rdr2.

[WitcheRivia]

Classic Rockstar...Next-gen game, last gen controls.

[spektical]

its just so annoying that he controls like a 600lb sloth. In real life you dont move like that. The controls are far from fluid, and its gotten me killed so many times. Need to turn around, it takes eons by the time the guys on your asses kill you.

[Gatsu]

Because they work so well.

[Garrett_the_GOD]

I dont mind the control button layout at all but these controls are pretty clunky by today's standards...with that being said,this game is still a masterpiece up there with Witcher 3

[plmkoh]

It is because of Euphoria. It is obsolete.

[zodiac909]

Is there STILL not option to map your own control scheme in Rockstar Games???? I wish more companies would do what Turn 10 & Playground Games does with the Forza Series, TONS of preset control schemes, and even your own Custom Schemes if you want to make them, where they highlights the most essential actions that need to be mapped, after that you are good to go.

[Starman69]

Jesus Christ. The game is brilliant!!