Most gamers love Cyberpunk 2077 already, but not everyone does. Why is that?
Immersiveness. That's what CD Projeckt RED is going for. They want you to feel like it's you in the game. Most RPGers are used to the fact that they are playing with a group of characters with no semblance of being the character being played but merely leading a character towards a goal, and most RPGs are played as a group of characters and not just one character, "Yourself". This is the game mechanics of that particular game. For Cyberpunk 2077, they are going for a first person view as in you being the character being played and being immersed in this world and being committed to the role and being responsible for the decisions that you make and the results from those decisions. Definitely Not like some top down God leading some character around. Either that or most of these people get sick playing games in FPS, so they're bitter about it. Edit: Future VR, here we come !!!
I don’t understand why some ppl can’t understand. Have they played Bioshock? Half-life, Dishonored etc? Bioshock is one of the most immersive games ever made! And w their ability tow world build and tell a story, this may be one of the most immersive, character-oozing games ever made!!!!
I've played all those games and a hefty list on top of fp games. I don't remember the last time I invested more than a couple of hours in to one tho. You can recite a list of fp as long as your arm, some people just don't like fp games.. Not that hard to understand. "this may be one of the most immersive, character-oozing games ever made!!!!" It also may not be, and the fact that its fp instantly alienates a huge install base. All they have to do is add the option to chose your view and it would likely sell a few million more copies.. It's simple, people are different, we have different tastes. We ain't all soulless clones that will buy a game just cos it has certain devs attached to it. We buy games that appeal to our gaming preferences. This could get perfect reviews from 400+ reviewers and for me it will still be a wait til the goty version is super cheap before buying for the simple fact that its unlikely i'm gonna put more than 6 hours into it before I get fed up at the camera and never play the game again and for that reason, I ain't paying £60 for it..
I have played Bioshock, Half-life, Dishonored, Wolfenstein and Deus Ex. After a couple of hours I am always too bored to continue. I understand that games are great, I really get it. But I don't feel it at all. I don't feel "immersed", more like a camera hanging in the space, if I don't see the character I just cannot immerse myself. The only recent first person game I liked is What Remains of Edith Finch. Is it really that hard to understand that different people have different preferences ?
@joab777 Dude have you played Mass Effect? What about Dead Space? Dark Souls? Bloodbourne? TLOU? Heck even GTAV. I could go on an on, but you get the point. There are very many IMMERSIVE third person games out there. Coming off The Witcher 3, arguably one of, if not THE most immersive RPG of this generation, it is only natural for fans to expect Cyberpunk - another deep RPG, to also have a Third Person view. The argument for immersion doesn't hold water. Many games have immersion in third person view. What is likely the real issue is dev time and resources needed to add third person animations for every player interaction in the game. It's just easier to make a game in first person, and I think CDPR are wanting to get this game out sooner rather than later.
Yeah and bioshock is not an rpg, RPGs need to be in 3rd person PERIOD!!
ArchangelMike Why would anyone expect this game to have third person view when CDPR never said that it would have it? The game was clearly built to be played in first person view from the get go so I have no idea of what you mean with them wanting to release the game asap. They're making the game they want to make. Also to accomodate third person view they would have to do much more than animations. They would need to completely change mechanics particularly the gunplay and character movement and add new mechanics like the obligatory cover system.
@milohighclub. And I believe you made a point that makes me respect CDPR even more. They aren’t making the game to sell to the largest possible audience. The Witcher began as a niche IP that many gamers ignored until the 3rd installment. I think they have a vision they won’t deviate from and THAT is the reason I have so much confidence. There will be plenty of non-FPS rpgs to play, so for those who simply can’t find value in an open world rpg from a first person perspective, they won’t go hungry.
You can also have that immersion on a Third person game that lets you create your own character. That is you, not a character that already exists. 1st person may be more immersive for obvious reasons, but in a game that gives me tools to create a character I rather be able to see the character most of the time
It is CD Project Red and im sure they wont disappoint. People are probably complaining bc the development going into this is taking a long time. I think everyone has to chill and instead have some appreciation for their quality they bring to gaming. I will be supporting this and in the meantime while waiting for Cyberpunk 2077's release, i have plenty of other games to keep me distracted.
@MiloHighClub I dont know if adding a TP perspective would be that easy. I'd be happy either way, but looking at FPS RPG's that have both (Elder Scrolls games and Fallout) they have both, but the first and 3rd person both have their own pros and cons. I never felt like playing one of those games in Third person because of how clunky it felt to do so.
Just wait until there's one less puddle in the final game. That's when the real rejection will start.
And then like TW3, work will spread about how great it actually is and everyone will begin raving about it again!
I see what you did there you sly dog
I think this first-person concern is being blown way out of proportion. People who like the Witcher are RPG fans, first and foremost. Are RPG fans going to miss out on potentially one of the best RPGs in the last decade simply because it's not in their preferred perspective?... My guess is no, and the ones that actually answer yes to that question are few and far between IMO.
Some great RPGs have been first person. Deus Ex, System Shock, Borderlands etc. It's simply gamers whining over something so minor. Look at the whole Spiderman thing right now. It's embarrassing and shows that the medium still has a lot of growing up to do.
@fps Your guess is wrong. @kyro you know what I thought when I played those games?? Man this game would be 10x the game if it was 3rd person. I never finished any of them due to the view. Ok so people having a preference towards what games they enjoy and purchase is immature and they have to grow up?!?! There is growing to be done but its on behalf of all those showing sjw agenda at anything with a female lead or undead to yourself because you are yet to understand that we're humans, we are all different and enjoy different things. And that's okay, its not childish, it's not pathetic, it's perfectly normal.
If my guess was wrong, that would mean CyberPunk 2077 isn't going to sell too well because there are a substantial amount of people THAT ALL OUT REFUSE TO BUY THE GAME because it's first person... Are we really making that claim?... Warning, a massive eye roll is coming if you actually answer yes. Funnily enough, you sorta' confirmed what I was saying "You know what I thought WHEN I PLAYED THOSE GAMES?".... So... As I said... you bought it because you're an RPG fan, lol. The amount of people who will refuse to play a great game simply because of its viewpoint are a very small percentage of the gaming community. Also, lol at your other comment "All they have to do is add the option to chose your view and it would likely sell a few million more copies" No... absolutely not, pull your head out. If you think A FEW MILLION are going to not support this game just because they can't see their character on screen, you've got your head in the clouds. It blows my mind you actually believe this many people are outraged to the point of missing out on something entirely. Nope. Just plain nope.
Fps nahhh we're not making that claim, you're taking what I've said and trying to twist it into something I never said. The game is gonna sell incredibly well as it's no doubt an interesting game that has the attention of a lot of people, it could and would sell better if they added options that catered for a wider range of players. How we did the witcher 3 sell? Now lot of those players bought the game because it was a 3rd person fantasy rpg... A lot of those players ain't gonna just jump to a futuristic 1st person rpg. Some people have certain preferences, and stick to them for their own reasons. Yano!? Some will do, but not all players. It's like saying, Oh you're like final fantasy!? You're gonna love Titan fall.. No I didn't buy them because they were rpgs at all, I bought them because they had decent write-ups or had an interesting premise. Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Wait, wait wait, you're saying that a gamer will buy a game no matter the view just because its a good game. And it won't have any impact on game sales?? Then why was it the first complaint after reveal? Why has this brought so much attention? Why are we even discussing it? Trust, there are people who will wait until it makes sense to them. I'm just one vocal example. Why would anyone pay 50/60 quid for a 40hour game that they know they will play for a handful of hours? Why do games release close to the holidays? Because publishers know their audience is for the most part broke and saving their money for a game that fits their needs. Lets say cyberpunk was releasing the same time as sekiro, Do you think someone saving for sekiro would take that money and spend it on cyberpunk instead? They're both rpgs so according to your logic, that's all that matters.
You've taken what I said out of context. Welcome to 2018 people! I didn't say anything about people needing to mature over a preference in view. Its the medium as a whole that needs grow up. People are acting like a child who cannot get their own way by saying they will boycott over a puddle (this is happening as I write this) or a pov. If you don't like it fine. Don't buy it, but don't moan and complain then act like you're entitled to something that the developers never intended to be there. A game is their vision. I really hope they don't cave in to a minority that thrive off complaining on Reddit and forums all day more than playing games themselves.
A medium can't grow up because it isn't a living thing. So it's aimed at the followers of the medium. I never said you said that about a view... I said it over people having a preference in types of games they enjoy. I won't buy it until I feel its a worth while investment. This is what I've said throughout. No need to tell me to do something, I've already openly stated that I'm doing. Entitled? When you buy a shoe are you entitled for expecting it to fit? So 'the medium needs to grow up? Maybe it starts with removing this kind of mentality; "I really hope they don't cave in to a minority that thrive off complaining on Reddit and forums all day more than playing games themselves" So you don't want the devs to add an option that will cater for all? For what reason? Because people want to support the dev and give them money? It's not gonna take anything away from your experience. So really you just want to spite these peple for wanting an option that will cater to them. Ur right, gamers need to mature. Universally.
So you don't like some of the best games ever made because they're not 3rd person. Cool. That's your prerogative. But maybe, just maybe people should be a little open minded and not act like something has to be done a certain way for it to good or enjoyable. That's what's immature about it. Look at the game for what it is, not for what you want it to be.
If you were part of a group that's a few million large, you wouldn't be the only one in the comments with this viewpoint, and you wouldn't have all your comments voted negatively into oblivion. Stop pretending millions aren't gonna buy this game just because they can't have their character on screen. it's a joke. You know what I'm willing to bet? The number of people that are skipping this game because it's in first person... ARE WAY SMALLER compared to the number of FPS shooter gamers that will jump in because it resembles something closer to their tastes. You're the 0.001%. Nothing wrong with that, but please, don't pretend you're massive in scale. You're loud because it's the internet and anyone can be loud. If Anita Sarkeesian can have a loud voice, so can the 0.001% not buying this game because of the viewpoint.
The SJW who wrote the article is just upset they won't get to see their pink mohawk 100% of the time they are playing. Non-issue for normal people!
Another snowflake who watch his own needs instead of beeing open and support the developers vision. Yeah, fpsfox, i will agree. Just to add the 3rd person is not enough, later they will ask more and more stupid needs. There is a line. Developers knowns what are they doing and what is release window and finances and talent and so on. There are no multiverse games, there never was and never will, but there is always a small group of people whom will bitch around with their needs. If you are not a small child, get over it. For me personally, i have just one need from all gaming industry, that games should be technically working in order.
Another snowflake who watch his own needs instead of beeing open and support the developers vision. I'm sorry what? I'll reiterate my analogy below... I might as well go buy a pair of trainers in a size that doesn't fit just because people rate them. God forbid I want the company to release a shoe that fits my (average sized) feet. Should I just go out and buy the shoe just to support the shoe makers vision?
@milohighclub Bad analogy. It's more like the shoe having an inch thick sole and not coming in purple, but you think the shoe should be available in purple and have a half inch sole. Instead of simply not buying the shoe, you whine incessantly and believe yourself entitled to the version of the shoe you want.
@starchild, that is a perfect explanation. Couldn't have said it better myself!
No, I am not. I am third person game fan and The Witcher (novels) fan. That is the reason I played the Witcher. I am also cyberpunk fan. I just hate playing in first person. So in my opinion first-person concern is in perfect "proportion". This is the game I would love to buy and play, everything looks amazing etc... but I have to pass it because of the first person perspective.
That's pretty stupid dude. What, are first person games too hard for you? I've literally never understood how a person who claims to be a gamer can actually feel this way. Why would you place such a limit on yourself? Whether you're in first or third person, you're still walking with left stick, looking with right, left trigger aim, right trigger shoot... I mean they really aren't all that different in terms of controls at least. What is your issue? I mean you're really not going to buy a game solely for the reason that you cant look at your characters ass 100% of the time? Bullshit dude, and if that is true, I hope you seek help soon.
You are 100% correct.
I'm sure some people are, but I'm not sure that justifies concern troll articles. The game looks phenomenal and will obviously be a huge success.
“Are Some Fans Already Rejecting Cyberpunk 2077?” I’m not. This game looks amazing and is my type of game. Love the Cyberpunk setting.
Idiots and snowflakes - yes. True gamers - no.
I've been gaming for 30yrs, had pretty much every console and played pretty much every noteworthy game. As much as the concept of game looks interesting, and I've been waiting what? 5 years for even a scrap of information, I'll be waiting til bargain bin prices because I don't like first person games. Guess that means I'm not a true gamer? Shit, 30 years of gaming and I'm not a true gamer because I didn't buy a game immidietly due to it not using my preferred style.
I read that you dont like first person games, that you want 3rd person forced in because it's an "easy solution and will make the game sell millions more". You also say that you are a true gamer with over 30yrs experience. Thats great for you and all, but if you were a true gamer who understands a little about how game development works, you would know that addind a 3rd person perspective would force CDPR to change how certain elements work in the game. It would force them to use hundreds of extra hours on how gameplay mechanics would work. They would need hundreds, maybe thousands of new animations, hundreds of extra hours on optimization, creating new assets and much more. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
I would also like to add; would you like it if every developer forced half-assed FPP in your 3rd person games? I highly doubt it.
Maybe you are gaming 30y, but your "age" in gaming is like childs. Ignorant and watch just his own needs.
Xenz Nah I understand exactly how it works. What elements exactly would it force them to change? I understand it would take them longer and cost them a bit more to develop but would the returns not justify this? I sorry but for a talented animator it would be relatively simple as that's their area of expertise, in terms of optimisation its just what any other developer would be doing. And in terms of assets, all the assets are already in-game. I wouldn't care if every 3rd person dev added to option to choose a 1st person camera, shoddy or well thought out. As my comments should have made obvious by now, I don't play 1st person.... Oh my, I'm sorry if I don't want to pay for a game that has a view that I don't enjoy? How am I immature for wanting a dev that I would potentionally be investing my hard earned cash (and many hours of my time) to make a game that I would enjoy. Seriously!? I might as well go buy a pair of trainers in a size that doesn't fit just because people rate them. God forbid I want the company to release a shoe that fits my (average sized) feet.
Milo you may be "veteran gamer" but that doesnt mean you cant be completely stupid too. "What elements exactly would it force them to change?" Ummm... like the entire combat system dude. Did you even watch the gameplay? It's very clear that the combat in this game is built specifically with first person in mind to fully utilize the unique gameplay options available from that perspective. It simply wouldn't work at all to just throw in a third person perspective. You're acting like an utter buffoon, you are not entitled to have the game perfectly suit your exact preferences. The developers want to make this game and tell the story from a first person view. If you're a normal human being who has played a variety of games, then you should be able to respect their decision here and allow the developers to realize their own vision for their game. It's like not every movie is an action kungfu movie or whatever a person who enjoys and appreciates good films will watch a good movie regardless if genre. A gamer who appreciates good gameplay design and storytelling should also not have an issue playing a well made game no matter what genre/perspective
Yeah, you sound like you're still pretty casual if you limit yourself to only third person games. You're missing out on a huge portion of what gaming offers. I will play a game with any perspective: isometric, third person, first person, side scrolling, top down, whatever it is. I tend to find first person games like Alien Isolation, Deus Ex, Thief, Half Life and Dishonored to be somewhat more immersive, but that doesn't mean I'm going to miss out on great third person games or start demanding that they create a first person option.
I like First Person View. It looks awesome to me. Go CDPR!
Skyrim says hello
Skyrim have 3rd person option
Deus ex says hello
And its absolute garbage.
who the hell plays skyrim or fallout in 3rd person? I mean really???It feels tacked on, like bethesda just did it for some extra points but hardly anybody ever uses it i imagine
What fans? Its new ip. For me the game looks promising
It's based on a 1998 tabletop game.
I tend to agree that FPP tends to be more immersive, but other factors such as the writing, the degree of player agency, and having a voiced protagonist can affect this in a negative way. And if you have the ability to customise your character, then of course you will want to see it often during the game. I guess this will mostly be in cutscenes but I wonder if you'll be able to see your characters reflection in game? It will also be interesting to see how npcs react to your character as this was mentioned by one of the developers the other day. In any case, this is the vision of CDPR and I certainly think they are aiming to surpass their efforts on the Witcher III.
I kinda am because of the first person thing. I'm not saying it's bad choice or anything but it just not for me. I usually don't like first person games, I dunno why. Maybe it just little bit uncomfortable or something. One of my friend told me he likes first person since it looks 'more realistic' but I don't see it like that. If games would cost half what they are now I would at least try this but paying around 60 bucks just to try is not woth it I guess. Recently I have been dissapointed in many new games that I just have become more careful what I buy.
They'll come running back once they realize how whiny and entitled they've been acting, and once they see everyone else enjoying the hell out of the game. Alien Isolation, Bioshock, The Elder Scrolls, Metroid Prime: the most immersive games ever made just so happens to be first-person. If someone cant accept that, then it is their loss.
"If you Don't like it, Don't buy it" - EA it's in the game.
Its going to be great. I laugh.
I remember the days when gamers used to just buy games and enjoy them, instead of whining about the upcoming games so much.
I know. It's sad. The gaming community has become so insanely toxic. And it's especially frustrating because it's really just a minority of hate-filled, cantankerous, entitled and contrarian gamers that make it that way.
Nice now i will support it .
This game is already being cast-aside by some. Not by myself - - think it looks like my dream game - - but people expect too much now. I know TW3 was hyped pre-release, but even then blew away expectations, it was an opus of a game. Cyberpunk is riding on 6 years of near-mythological hype. It's also in first person, and has been revealed in what sounds like an extremely early dev stage. Mark my words, the next cries will be about downgrades, the current consoles holding the overall game back, and a myriad of other complaints.
You and me both man, I liked what they showed off in the gameplay trailer. It's what I want in a Cyberpunk game. The world looks alive and the first-person aspect makes it feel more personal. Like I'm actually apart of this world and I'm seeing it with my own eyes.
It reminds me of when I was playing Dues Ex: ME (which I really loved), thinking of what it could be if they were given more time to develop it, in terms of the world and immersion.
This isn't the first time a rpg was in first-person. CD Project Red aren't making a new genre. There have been loads of old school rpgs that used this. I think we've gotten spoiled by everything in third person that we don't want to use imagination anymore We want to see everything. Elder Scrolls before Morrowind was a first-person experience. It wanted to give players the exact experience as their tabletop cousin's like D&D. Honestly, I see Cyberpunk 2077 as a futuristic D&D campaign. They even given you the option to go third person in some scenarios. Personally, I think Cyberpunk 2077 is the perfect candidate for being in VR. I'm not the only one who thinks this game was designed for that technology in mind. So, for me, this argument is stupid and continues the thread of people want to whine about everything these days when it was a design choice from the start.
Not everyone can tolerate first person view. Heck, I have a friend that can only tolerate a 2D perspective, not even 3ed person view. Not including a switch of perspective (Elder Scrolls, Fallout, etc) is simply lazy and arrogant. Not to mention silly because they're not going to sell as much as they could.
Making the game they want the way they want is lazy and arrogant? Only arrogance on display here is from people who expect them to change their creative vision to suit them. Perhaps they care more about their craft than appeasing a few entitled loud mouths? Something to be commended in this day and age. Don’t like FPP, play something else. Simple.
No one's asking them to change their creative vision tho, just add options that open it to a wider audience. That is all that's going on here.
Maybe I should have explained a bit better why I say that. It is lazy because it is just a camera toggle. Arrogant because even though it is not a big deal, people are asking for it and they simply refuse. If this was a straight shooter with multiplayer I would understand locking the camera perspective, but this is a single player RPG and this is a genre that normally allows for different ways to play, according to your style. I hope this clarifies my original opinion.
To be clear, it isnt as simple as changing the camera to a nee location. It is introducing and perfecting an entire new set of animations, interactions, and most importantly movement ability. In first person a character is expected to move almost with 1:1 accuracy to input. If you do this in third person it looks aweful and incredibly unrealistic. Particularly with the comprehensive movement system shown in the demo, this would all have to be changed for the different perspective and the player would need to control the character very differently. This is all before talking about issues with differences in how cover systems work in third and first person perspectives. Also, much of this game appears to take place in close quarters and small areas. Third person cameras in this setting would likely run into issues getting stuck on walls and making the combat more difficult. You were tight that Bethesda includes a third person perspective in their major titles, however it is lazily and haphazardly inplemeted. It is legitemately a worse experience and you can tell that little to no effort was put into it. Lastly, if yoy actually watch the demo you would see CDPRs point about immersion in the FPP. Its not necessarily just about being in the perspective of the character but how they implement it. Think about how V interacts wirb the things around her by pressing a screen erc think about how the camera shifted to the new eye at the ripper dock. Think about the intensity of the Maelstrom gangs leader shoving a gun in your face. These accorances would not have the same kmpact from a different perspective. CDPR are crafting an experience. After extensive dev time and resources they have designed their game around this perspective. It isnt arrogant or lazy of them not to include a different perspective because in doing so, for the game that they have been developing for the last 6 years, they would (at the very least in their eyes if not in yours specifically) be providing a lesser experience, a cheapened experience. You may not like a FPP, thats fine, tou dont need to buy or play the game, however dont be so arrogant yourself that you think you can claim wrongdoing or bad intent on the part of the developer for not sacrificing their own vision to cater to your wishes. Its a product, and a piece of art, not a public service. It isn't for everyone.
"Not including a switch of perspective is simply lazy and arrogant" Wait, so now every game has to cater to everyone? What a nightmare. Do you realize what that would do to the quality of games? When you try to make everyone happy you end up making nobody happy. Even if we assume it only has to apply to camera perspectives are developers really going to be forced to include every perspective in their games? I mean, are we going to demand that isometric games be playable in third person? Are third person games going to have to offer first person perspective too? Are you going to call all developers that don't do such things "lazy"?
3rd person is for casual “RPG” fans. 1st person is for the REAL Role-Playing Game Enthusiasts. Git gud, scrubs...