Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg said that the Xbox userbase is composed of more hardcore players when compared to other console competitors and that shows in the much higher attach rate.
more hyperbolic silliness from Greenberg...
It's not that strange. You see brand loyalty in any industry. It's like a lifelong Ford owner that finds out that Honda has a much more powerful truck at a lower cost but they don't want to change over.
The entire bases for Mr. Greenberg's overall claim seems to be down to this statement here: "Looking at the numbers and results of the competition, we have a smaller installed base, but the attach rate and sales data for many games are much higher on Xbox." That is a pretty bold claim seeing as though Xbox won't release data (hardware & software sales) to prove that the attach rate is higher than the PS4 attach rate. (for reference the last time Sony released hardware & software sales **IN THE SAME DOCUMENT**…the PS4 had a 8.76 games sold per console (Source: http://www.sie.com/en/corpo... - bullet point 2 & 3))
@uptown: If, say, you compare 1 million sales of a game on a console with a user base of 40 million to 1 million sales of a game on a console with a user base of 80 million it's going to appear as though one community buys more games than the other. It doesn't mean that the smaller user base is more "hardcore", and Greenberg is just skewing the data in order to make it seem like their community is somehow better.
U take that back! Lol Jk.
You would need to be pretty hard core to pay for the OG xbone at $500 for lower quality versions of games. But hardcore gamers love Kinect so it all makes sense.
@ziggurcat Even if he's using attach rate on a game by game basis (which is highly subjective as to what games he's counting)…I'm just saying he should be asked to prove his claim. If he did prove his statement we would be able to see if he's going by the more objective based: console-wide attach rate…or if he's going on the more subjective based: game by game attach rate
@uptown I don't think it much matters whether you go game-by-game or console-wide - the data is being skewed to present a false narrative regardless of which pool of data he's referencing.
@ziggurcat While I believe the data is probably being skewed, we don't know that b/c we haven't seen it… So the only thing I'm saying is that he should prove his claim…Then & only then, will we be able to see if (and how much) he is skewing his data
Brand loyalty != hardcore.
or a lifelong honda owner with delusions on honda trucks?
Thanks for participating Mr Greenberg
Xbox PR team... Stop, just stop. Fanning the flame to a "console war" is one thing when it's a close competition.... But when Sony is 2:1 or even 3:1 sales, it's not a War. Humbly accept your user base.
Fortunately for me my truck has wheels(games) and a player base. Your trucks running on donuts(multiplats) and it’s constantly blasting the radio on crossplay fm because it’s tired of getting stomped.
KaiPow Honda does not make a work truck. Their pos is not in the same league as Sierra Silverado Ram or F150.
I wonder if he means before or after people left. If it’s after, then it’s nothing to be proud of. Really though, the statement itself isn’t something to be proud of. He should be happy with the players in general and not be worried about labeling them. Hardcore players would buy games so what he’s saying sounds ironic.
Much higher attach rate? The difference between the two at any given time has been about .1-.2 and it flips back and forth. If attach rate is the measure of the hardcore, then psvr must be as hard as they come. It's a whole two points above the consoles themselves.
Real hard core gamers don't buy finished games they buy games as service that launch unfinished and with plenty of bugs and glitches Ms cares so much about hard-core gamers that they only release highest quality exclusives but wait. Learn from this me learn from this embarrassment instead of trying to defend what Xbox has become this Gen
I agree. I find it funny that he leaves out the Xbox One from the list of consoles with the best gaming experience, yet the hardcore gamers still stuck with them "always". At least be honest and accept that you lost some during that period... "Hardcore players, those who prefer the best gaming experience, have always been on our side, from the first Xbox to Xbox 360 and now with the Xbox One X."
I think we can say most of us here are hardcore. For the most part, I see a lot more ps fans than ms fans, and the only ones I saw really talking up and saying they're getting the x1x were those that already had a ogx1. I'm sure some converted for the x1x, but to say the hardcore gamer has always been on their side is just plain false. Ms had had plenty of hardcore gamers come down hard on them this gen. Their extremely loyal fanboy fan base has been loyal to them.....although they have even lost some of them this gen, everyone else doesn't care or dislikes ms.
"Looking at the numbers and results of the competition, we have a smaller installed base, but the attach rate and sales data for many games are much higher on Xbox." Really, it isn't. In UK ( where Xbone is strong too ), PS4 version of Shenmue 1&2 is 75% of total sales at retail. 75%!!! What about Monster Hunter World??? In UK at launch it was almost 4:1 in PS4 favor. Remember Witcher 3, Greenberg? MS had a marketing deal with CDProject? Look at the sales on Xbone : https://imagescdn.tweaktown...
This is precisely why these attach rate stats aren't particularly valid in assessing how "hardcore" one community is compared to another. You could release a console, and only have 1 game available for it - if everyone who buys that console also buys the one game that is available, its 100% attach rate != that that community is more hardcore than a larger community of gamers on a competing system that might have more games available.
I’ve had...hmm...four PS3s iirc. 5 if you count the refurb I got for my OG BC 80gb grill. I only buy games once. I have exactly one copy of TLOU among four systems. So...its my fault. I’ve single handedly destroyed Sony’s attach rate by buying multiple consoles lol. I’m sure they’re devastated. Point is, it’s a flawed metric. Soon as I buy a PSPro, the attach ratio for PS4 software in my house will drop from 1:1 to 1:2 as well. 100% attach rate to 50%. It doesn’t mean anything.
Greenturd is a frigging idiot. Everytime he speaks lies come out
Well he is paid to represent Xbox, so what would you expect?
Gears of War is pretty hard core it's basically Mortal Kombat with guns
I like the PS4 and my Xbox One but in honesty I use the PS4 more
I use my xbox more
How can anyone disagree with this comment? You say you use it more, then you use it more. This was the first gen that I didn't buy both as i don't have the time. I went with xbox as I love halo, gears and Forza Shoot me
*shoots at you*
Says a lot about poor game tastes.
Razzor ask what game is my favorite this gen. Then I'll give you the shocker
@81BX no...you won't. It will be a PS4 game and I'm supposed to be shocked? You sound like Kribwalker now.
You can go back and check. Prefer my xbox over my ps4. Ps4 has provided better single player this gen and xbox better mp (for me). The best game.... again I love uncharted but because it was a new ip, until dawn has to be my favorite game this gen. Now about that shocker Also, what in the hell is a kribwalker?
"what in the hell is a kribwalker? " Stealth troll confirmed.
I use my ps4 pro most cause thats all i own.
Gunstar75, It's interesting that you question how people can disagree... but not how anyone can agree. But to answer, it's simple: "I use my PS4 more" - yeah, me too. "I use my xbox more" -I don't.
Me too only thing I have on PS4 is exclusives and some Limited Run games
I play most of my multiplayer games on my Xbox and my single player ones on my PS
Same here. I love 90% of PS4 exclusives but when it comes to multiplayer...Xbox just feels much better in that department. Im just blessed to have both systems so i dont miss out on anything. And will be the same next gen (true gamer)
The Xbox has SP games?
I'm sorry, ccgr, but that's clearly because you're not a hard core gamer. Perhaps you qualify for the "soft core" label? ;-)
This doughnut again. And again and again
More meaningless drivel from Greenberg... the biggest bag of hot air in the industry. This supposed professional, who presented nothing but toxic diatribe against Sony last generation when things were seemingly in Xbox's favor and he thought it was above everything. https://kotaku.com/388781/a... He's the head of marketing and we all know how, when it comes to Microsoft, they only let you see what they want you to see or worse, they manipulate the information to present something more favorable than reality. All this is, is a man too big for his boots sharing obscure PR details that he's not going on to verify. Just you wait. He'll be bad-mouthing Sony all of next-gen if Xbox gets off to a positive start.
This should get the comment section wild.
yeah, some folks won’t want to hear it. But if they have the attach rate numbers and they can see that it’s true, then there isn’t much else to argue. it would be nice for them to let those numbers out there for comparison
"it would be nice for them to let those numbers out there for comparison " yes it would
A Greenberg article on N4G!?! "Grrrrrrrr!!!"
Attach rates of what, FPS games? COD and GTA? They’re manipulating the information
@Kribwalker - "yeah, some folks won’t want to hear it. But if they have the attach rate numbers and they can see that it’s true, then there isn’t much else to argue" Usually when an executive makes a provable claim…we ask them to show their proof. Until such proof is shown, the legitimacy of his claim is very much…up for debate & argument.
They can say what they want, but until they release numbers... it is all talk.
It's a stupid comment from him. Maybe X box has a higher percentage of hardcore gamers, however that may be qualified is beyond me, but ps4 certainly has more hardcore players just based on common sense and actual sales numbers. The forums alone easily show this, as anything that has both sites represented easily has a higher ratio of ps players. That ratio is probably more than the actual ratio in console sales. As far as attach rates....what exactly are those numbers again? Sony's attach rate is about .1-.2 lower, but with twice the console sales, they're actually selling a lot more software. If ps had a higher ratio of casuals, you'd expect the attach rate to be significantly lower in comparison. This would mean by the laws of percentages, and greenburgs metrics, that ps4 actually has a higher percentage of hardcore vs casual gamers on its own system than ms does.
Well some people lack common business sense so they will believe that attach rates matters more than revenue does. Which is why they refuse to accept the importance of having such a large install base. As a multiplatform gamer I know this to be true.
He's a slimeball - always has been always will be. He also never has anything constructive to say, a smart move would be to remove him from the public eye. What am I saying, he's a perfect fit for MS and their public image.
Almost all multiplayer games sell more on ps4. you guys keep spinning but anyone with any sense know that the ps4 is leading not only because of western games even though those sell more on the platform. 11 million in japan alone, Greenberg and his gang should check the attach rate of japanese games from those 11 mill alone vs the whole xbox one install base. I'm sure they wont do that because it wouldn't be a good sight. once again trying to blind their own userbase but what's funny some are buying this bs. unlike xbox the PlayStation is truly worldwide ALOT bought it only to be able to play their niche games that Xbox dont offer. it's been like that for years. I find a crazy that some can't see what's right in front of their eyes but instead believe this rather idiotic spin. attach rate don't matter at all when almost every single game from east to west sell more on the platform and more importantly, theirs an audience for those games.
PSVR has a really high attach rate too. I guess it has more hardcore gamers than Xbox?
@genericusername Well, the PSVR is like the scorpio, it’s mostly the more hardcore fans that have been buying them. And the PSVR you can tell that based off the numbers sold, 3 million in almost 2 years, with a install base of 82 million
When will people learn that comparing attach rates only matter when the install base is similar across consoles? When the install base gap is as significant as it is with the PS4 and XB1, you're literally penalizing the larger install base for not breaking all-time sales records for every games sold, which is what it would require for the attach rate to be similar to the smaller install base.
I sold a 1000 consoles and released 5 games. Every person buys a copy. I sold 5000 copies of games having 100% attach rate for every game. My friend sold 3000 consoles and released 7 games. Each game sold 1500 copies. With 7 games that's 10500 copies total games sold with 50% attach rate. I prefer the scenario with the lower attach rate in this case. All these statistics tell you one thing but never the whole picture and that will remain the case. All numbers matter and with the slightly lower attach rate for competition playstation and Nintendo are still doing far better business in the gaming sector.
I see the bait and I want nothing of it. *Happily continues to play video games.
Software sale attach rates dont lie.
But where is hardware rate ? Are they not that important anymore ?
not to there measures of success. They explained it a few years ago. Hardware sales don’t mean anything if people aren’t continuing to engage on your platform, so they switch to a MAU system to judge success. The Mau system works with monthly active users, and they use that as well as attach rates to see how well their platform is performing and if your monthly active users are high and your attach rates are high then your platform is succeeding and making money
MS went to the MAU "system" exclusively because their hardware sales were not PR worthy. If MS were leading in hardware sales, they would be bragging about and revealing hardware numbers. Period.
@Kribwalker It’s like you want MS to forget hardware business model.
@Krib And what are the MAU's for MS? The last I remember them saying such numbers, they don't talk about Xbox users, they talk about Xbox Live users. Live users aren't necessarily Xbox players anymore, and it can include anyone that logs on through their phone app. It may even include me when I have to log on through work to test code, or the thousands of other developers that have to do the same thing. MS went with the MAU system because it provides big numbers. If the sales of the console aren't as important as the MAU's, then there should be no problem also talking about the sales numbers for the console. But talking about those numbers makes them look bad, because its what most people care about. The investors care about both numbers, but MS even obfuscates hardware sales to them as well, and lumps it into the total revenue of the gaming brand itself. But you are right that MS is making money, but success is based on metrics that only MS can determine. For the purposes of what we mostly talk about, MS success is roughly half that of Sony's as Sony has more MAU's, more paying members for what makes up MAU's, more software sales, more support across the board, more high profile successful games from their own studios, and more console sales.
Sure. And I wish Microsoft would just tell us the numbers. But in the end it's in software they earn the most from. And higher attach rate on software on Xbox vs PlayStation that have millions more console's in circulation says allot. And we see it with the exclusives on PlayStation also. One example is Horizon Zero Dawn. A fantastic game that has sold a spectacular 7.6 million copies as of Feb 2018. But with over 80 million PS4 in the hands of costumers its not really that a good attach rate. Ubisoft also reported that Xbox users spend more money on their games. They earn more money on Xbox then on PlayStation. A higher