Sony hasn't become the big bad wolf, or done something to slight gamers. They are doing the same thing their competitors have done before, it was just a bad time to be doing it.
Interesting article. They are no victims though. I think Sony will open up to push more cross play but n their own terms and when they feel ready to do so. In the mean time of course it's open console war Edit Next gen announcements are getting all the buzz soon I reckon and that's when the companies want to make good impression.
Sony just doesn’t want people to be able to pay MS for game related micro transactions (ex. Skins) and then use them on Sony’s PlayStation network. It’s pretty legitimate. We’ve already had crossplay with other consoles and PC, but what the new push by MS is not mentioning is that MS wants unfettered access to Sony’s customers and in my opinion, PlayStation has every right not to allow it.
I'm amazed that some people on N4G can see the logic in all this. I don't blame Sony, after they tried last Gen. Why should they share psn users and give them profit? I know that when I play games like fortnite etc. I sometimes add vbucks on psn and sometimes on pc. That's definitely to be a situation with ms. I'm sure Sony would be more inclined if Ms and them were on similar footing. Cross play has no actual benefits for Sony. It's actually negative for them in a business sense. Investors etc don't care about why profits are down. Just that they're down.
You can already pay for things on PC though and then use them on Sony's network.
They do have every right to. Doesn't make it the smart move tho.
@10th rider Because fortnite is cross progression between ps4 n pc
i seem to recall someone posted more info about last gen and how Sony wasn't really against the idea but they didn't go out of their way to extend the olive branch like MS is doing now. So it's sort of a half assed remembering of what actually happened. Sony never once said themselves "let's make it happen", but people like to think they did. They basically didn't say no either, and left it to the individual game developers to ask MS. It was at that time MS was opposed to the idea. So there is a misconception to the whole thing. sony is taking their usual wait and see stance. They did it with paid online multiplayer (they watched to see how MS did it with xbl and did it themselves with PS+). They did it with adding in external storage support (they watched to see how MS did it on XB1 and then did it themselves on PS4). They are likely going to add in name changes and ps now downloads (like what MS offers with game pass). So Sony is not the enemy of change. They are just smart and like to see how its done by one side so they can refine it and make it better for their customers.
@10th Rider They do with PC, but to directly let MS benefit from playstation’s user base, knowing that MS has more of a presence on PC because of windows, would be a stupid move for PlayStation. Sony doesn’t have a problem with people playing together, they have a problem when MS wants to bundle crossplay with cross-micro-transactions. @darth MS isn’t offering an olive branch though, it’s more of a spear than a branch. They are saying either agree to share your profits, or we will start a PR campaign.
@goldby, Yes, that's what I'm saying. But if Sony was against allowing it with Microsoft due to lost revenue, or network safety, or increased hacking vulnerability, it wouldn't make any sense because allowing it with PC brings up the same issues. It's well within Sony's rights to deny crossplay and certainly they're doing it because they think it's a better business decision, but StormSnooper's argument that it's about potential lost revenue from Microtransactions doesn't hold up.
While true, that's a cross buy/progression thing, and really shouldn't have any bearing on cross play.
MS is pushing this hard because at the end of the day they're not on top anymore. Yeah this will be something that would be nice to get worked out in the future but right now Sony is doing just fine.
If that was just the case then they wouldn't just allow cross-play with PC. They allow cross-play without cross-progression perks with PC but won't allow it with Switch and XBox One. More than a single issue with this cross-play... and the purchase of assets across platforms is hardly the issue that is preventing cross-play.
@ darthv72 Last gen was under Balmer/Mattrick who were against crossplay with Sony when they tried. Phil Spencer has been pro crossplay from the start since taking over Xbox. Nice try but try again, this is Sony being Sony.
@wang, yes last gen the heads of MS were against it and now the heads are for it (changing of the guard) but that does not detract from the fact it really wasn't "Sony" themselves asking for it to happen. It was the game devs that were told by Sony to go ask MS. So, like i said, Sony never said yes or no specifically, they left that up to developers discretion to contact MS about allowing it to work.
If ms didnt mention it, how do you know it? You should say "i think that ms....." Else everyone can just say: what sony didnt mention is that they have no respect for their customers or something alike.. Ur just speculating, nothing more nothing less
I like that you leave out that Sony pushes its own micro transactions along with the fact that Minecraft is present on PS4, PS3, and Vita. With micro transactions for skins and such where profit goes to Microsoft.
Cross progression shouldn't even be a thing. If you are an Xbox Fortnite player you are an Xbox Fortnite player. You want to play on PS4? Start over.
@michael I’m going off of the way this is portrayed in the discussions about ”crossplay” while failing to mention the details of exactly what it is that Sony doesn’t agree to. But, in response to what you said about “I think” being the better way to say it, sure, I conced that it’s more proper that way. I’m not an insider, just an observer. @undertaker I’m not leaving anything out. Read my comment more carefully. It’s not about whether micro-transactions are good or bad. Also, Minecraft is a Microsoft property, so of course they get paid for their own game, that has nothing to do with what’s being said here.
“Sony just doesn’t want people to be able to pay MS for game related micro transactions (ex. Skins) and then use them on Sony’s PlayStation network. It’s pretty legitimate.” “Also, Minecraft is a Microsoft property, so of course they get paid for their own game, that has nothing to do with what’s being said here.” Uh... What? So Minecraft is a Microsoft owned IP that’s available on PlayStation platforms. Minecraft provides micro transactions on all platforms, PlayStation included. Right now. So Microsoft is making profit on a product available on PlayStation, right now, doing exactly what you’re saying Sony is stopping Cross Platform Play for. ...How is that not the topic again? PlayStation gets delayed updates for the title as well because they don’t want to play ball.
Minecraft DLC on the PlayStation Store; 190 matches https://store.playstation.c... So people on PlayStation are already buying and have been “able to pay MS for game related micro transactions (ex. Skins) and then use(using) them on Sony’s PlayStation network.” And not just skins. The whole game. Two PlayStation platforms will officially lose support soon. The PS4 version will be updated but after all other platforms. “Arriving a little while after the initial launch, players on PlayStation 4 Edition, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, PS Vita and Wii U will all receive the Update Aquatic. With the exception of PlayStation 4 Edition, this will mark the last big effort to keep those editions up to date with our newer versions of the game.” https://minecraft.net/en-us...
This is exactly why I was saying that the conversation has been misleading. Clearly, you don’t know what is the point of contention. Let me explain, MS wants “unrestricted” “unfettered” access. Sony says we want to Have control over which games and to what extent there would be collaboration. When you speak about a single game, and one that is published by Microsoft, Sony has no problem with having Microsoft sell it on PlayStation, it’s MICROSOFT’s game! Get it? But if Microsoft says I want everyone to be able to buy their ex. Skins on my online store even though they will be playing it on your console, Sony would say “wait, those are my install base, they are people who would have paid ME, not Microsoft.” It goes without saying, that Sony has every right to reap the rewards of its efforts. Being able to charge your customers is the incentive that makes these console makers compete by making better games. If you take that incentive out, all you will get is better/easier ways to pay them. Yes?
I totally agree with you. Going into next gen Sony will likely embrace cross play. I just hope they do it in a smart way that isn't obviously pandery
exactly, if I said hey lets play blop4 but I said you gotta buy it though.... You can either agree and say yea or disagree and say no. Big woop, you made your own choice!
Who cares. There stock is up there still selling the most consoles games and controllers.
Well thats good for them but as for who cares. you should care. They're limiting your options while their competitors are not.
I could care less i have no other systems and neither do the people i play with. Not enough people care to make it a big deal.
“Limiting options while competitors are not” Sony offers more cross play titles by double of any other console on the market. Sony 40 Microsoft 17 Nintendo 14 Cross save? It is not large enough for anyone to brag about... especially when Microsoft is counter pc for play anywhere for the fact you have to buy the Microsoft Xbox version to take to pc. Games like pubg do not allow you to use your pc saved information or progress if you had owned it already and bring it to Xbox. So to give your statement any clarity, what or who is offering more?
Boil it down for me, they have limited the amount of players I play with in one multiplayer game but am I having a problem finding players on ps4 to play against? If I picked a call of duty from two or three years ago, would I have a good chance of finding enough players to play against if it was just Ps4 players, or even ps4 and xb1 players?
Sony wanted cross play last gen and MS said no. Now MS wants cross play. I would say no too. Nothing in it for Sony but a loss.
I see a lot of people saying "but but but Microsoft" what I'm saying isn't about Microsoft. They have a lot of issues. Which includes the lack of quality first party content. This about how Sony needs to accept that not only do fans want cross play across all platforms but also developers. By Sony taking the stance it is now it is only hindering themselves in the long run.
“I see a lot of people saying "but but but Microsoft" what I'm saying isn't about Microsoft.“ What we do not see is them getting attacked endlessly for the last 8 years of doing the exact same and offering less. We see the media doing a coordinated attack on Sony. Microsoft is partnered with most media outlets and they have been known and even sued for using said media partners for negative attacks that looks like “news”. Microsoft started this campaign of lies and false outrage. That’s why everyone is “but but but”... Like yourself ignoring the fact that u replied to with facts and you chose to ignore and use the “but but but... “ excuse. Sony set the trend for crossplay last gen. Sony has more offerings than any other console on the market.. And absolutely no on cross game information. There is no reason to blur that line just because no one has an install base or a handheld device for on the go. Sony’s eco system is theirs and every company does the same thing. Fortnite will die before anything is done about that individual game. Microsoft is dreaming for this scenario because then it keeps their foot in the door for next gen instead of actually doing what it takes to be a gaming company. When they launched play anywhere, they cried because their competitors would not let them play together.., it’s called competition and Microsoft is only trying to monopolize the digital game realm now before it goes full stride. Sony is the market leader for a reason.. we want to go to cross game information, then they can draw up the plan.
Microsoft is limiting my options by not allowing me to play halo on my ps4.
How are they limiting your options when they do crossplay with PC?
@Italiano1234567: Xbox One: 35 million consoles worldwide Nintendo Switch: 18 million Mobile: Hundreds of millions PC: Hundreds of millions That’s 53 million with just the two consoles. Couple in the hundreds of millions of mobile and PC owners. More people than PS4, PS3, and Vita combined as even all three combined would be around 170 million. PC and mobile alone spank that.
And you must be the owner, right?
Whan portal come out years ago no one moaned as much as they do today it's silly
When fortnite was released no one cared that xbox ans ps4 couldn't crossplay or cross progress, now that Nintendo jumped in and it's all the rave, it's a huge issue that apparently. Based on twitter will be their downfall lol
And before Fortnite was even famous PS4 has been crossplaying with PC since forever and Sony did not even get a thanks for that. Now Sony doesn't want to share their userbase with their competitor and they are evil lol.
I think it became an issue because most people have a PS4 or an Xbox, with the Switch many people own it as a secondary console, so they're more likely to want to transfer the data back and forth. On top of that people became more aware of Sony locking the Epic accounts to PS4, which Drew more attention to the issue.
The irony is Pubg was supposed to be the big thing going on on Xbox with, obviously, a limited pool of players since not on PS4 yet Some hypocrisy there haha
Xbox fanboys, not the whole community, didn't care till journalists figured that it was good flamebait to push clicks and the fanboys went along with it because they didn't have anything much else against Sony. If it was also important for Microsoft, they would have tried to crossplay enable with Steam games, but why haven't we read much about that? Because from a business perspective, it's much more complicated than they would like you to think and Sony takes the heat because they're the giant.
No one moaned when Final Fantasy XV skipped Xbox because they wouldn't agree to cross play with ps and pc lol. The irony
14* not 15
Uhh it's called "Different times, different circumstances". FF wasn't on mobile, Switch, Xbox and PC with cross-play. FF wasn't the biggest game in the world (whether you like it or not), FF wasn't free to play. No one cared about Battle Royal until PUBG came around. Everyone laughed at Fortnite calling it a PUBG clone and said it would fail. In a years time look at how that entire situation is upside down. Times change, the industry evolves, standards are set and expectations are higher. No one cared because the biggest game in the world wasn't doing it. Hell that game was on its way to the graveyard until they put Naoki Yoshida in charge. The whole "Sony did it years ago and no one complained it wasn't supported elsewhere" is the most ignorant argument possible.
@Golby Yeah, I wrote Final FANTASY XIV. My phone just auto corrects it to XV because I never actually write XIV but I talk about FFXV. I even had to stop auto correct both times here lol
-T9X-69- 1. I don't know why you're assuming I'm against Fortnite. I play fortnite Battle Royale, I've Tier 100'd the last 2 seasons, currently wanna to get 200 000xp for drifts final stage though I'm only at his second so far lol. Don't assume crap. 2. Circumstances... You haven't mentioned a circumstance that is more relevant than a mmorpg. Unifying a MMORPG is alot more important than a Battle Royale. How popular the game is doesn't matter as people were crying about if before Fortnite. 3. It matters vs now because they lost out on a whole game for how long because of it. While Fortnite on PS4 plays with PC, and mobile perfectly fine. As I started playing on ps4 and switched to pc as my main, i sometimes go on the PS4 instead but I always play with my ps4 friends while on pc so no its no big deal. As you can play cross play with other platforms. Just not competitors as NOT A single soul was thinking was necessary when they picked consoles this Gen lol. 4. You have no argument... Ignorance at its best. You call my comment ignorant but haven't provided a single reason why it makes sense. Popularity doesn't make complaining sensible. It's just like anything in the world. Does having 400 dollars make your opinion more appealing than mine with 100 dollars? Of course, but does it make it right? Nope.
Well for one, I never said you were against Fortnite. I never even asked if you played, let alone to hear your stats. You were actually the one assuming. You said no one was complaining when FF skipped Xbox because they didn't agree to crossplay. Then I literally gave you a list of reasons why. Popularity is a HUGE dictating factor in what happens in this industry, what are you even talking about? Did you not notice COD and BF all of a sudden have Battle Royale modes now? Fortnite is a lot bigger than many people here give it credit for and I don't even play the damn game, but its extremely obvious Fortnite has a huge impact. Crossplay is a big deal because the biggest game in the world right now has it with every single platform it's on except Sony. It's almost as if you guys are so deeply invested in this imaginary console war that you don't see the reality around you. It's painfully obvious why it's an issue now and why it wasn't the 200 other times where crossplay happened before it.
You're the dumb one who's talking about console war. You have been spouting nonsense. I was talking the business side of it. Which you don't understand clearly. Also it's a implication when you say whether you like it or not that I have something against it. Don't say things unless you understand the implications that come with it. Fortnite on ps4 despite not cross play with direct competitors. It has cross play with pc and mobile which mind you only became a norm because of Sony... Final Fantasy XIV missed out on 360 and I don't believe it has released on Xbox one either because of Microsoft refusing. Hmm, which is worse Losing a whole game, especially when cross play still exists on fortnite. I'm not talking console war I'm talking business. You're talking personal gain. Not the benefits for the company. It doesn't benefit Sony to kiss ass. Next this isn't just about fortnite so let's speak on the whole issue and if you want to actually have a actual civilized and intelligent conversation. You can have one. Don't go assuming dumb crap. I stated a fact and you started it by trying to call it ignorant. That's what the problem is here. I'm all for cross play, if it happens. I don't care if it does though because it shouldn't technically happen. It's a nice bonus, but it's nothing to make a big deal about. No one bought Xbox to play with playstation friends. They bought it to play Xbox accessible games and Xbox friends. Same for playstation. Same for switch. Everyone knew how fortnite worked with playstation and cried about it once it was switch lol. That's my point. Period. Goodbye to the baby who doesn't like the facts. Ps. I didn't say you asked me for my fortnite stats, I just know how people on N4G are when they start acting like yu getting butt hurt over a fact. Covering extra bases. Anyways I'm done. I got things to do. You can cry to someone else now.
Are you in business with Sony? Are you an investor? If not, the business side doesn't concern you or anyone not involved. You're an outsider looking in. It doesn't matter if you have a problem with "whether you like it or not". People tend to dismiss Fortnite because it's not for them. Well once again, NEWS FLASH. It's the biggest game in the world. Fact. Thus, if the community of the biggest game in the world has an issue with something, it's going to be brought to light. With or without you. The community is far beyond this site. Far beyond gaming, it's into the extreme casual side where those who never play video games are now playing Fortnite. Those people don't care about the business, they don't care about who sold more consoles, they don't care if it doesn't effect a large majority of hardcore gamers. What they do care about is not being able to play with their friends and family who play on PS4 which is also (you guessed it) the most popular home console. There's no deep conversation to be had. It's too big of a game and too vocal of a community. Again, it's painfully obvious why crossplay is a big deal right now. You can "understand" the business side of things all you want and pretend to play CEO. It doesn't change the fact that it's an issue now where as it wasn't in the past due to different circumstances.
@-T9X-69- Consumers benefit from good business decisions. If the company loses money or wastes time with one aspect, it can affect other parts of the company in negative ways thus the consumers become affected. Fortnite already has a huge amount of players on PS4 alone, don't know how it benefits Sony, maybe they plan to have PS4 exclusive items, content or deals in the future that they don't want their direct competitors to get. You should try to think more often.
***Are you in business with Sony? Are you an investor? If not, the business side doesn't concern you or anyone not involved. *** You don't need to work with Sony to have interest in the industry. And business side concerns everyone. Thinking it doesn't is what leads to shitty game tactics because people don't pay attention to the business side of things.
You're both misinterpreting what I'm saying. You can show interest all you want, do as much research to better yourself and your purchasing decisions. That's cool. The difference here is that people are speaking on their behalf like they represent the company. As an outsider looking in, yes, business wise it doesn't make sense for Sony. But that doesn't negate the fact that its an issue because the community made it an issue. Screaming "Business wise it doesn't make sense!! Give it a rest already!!" doesn't change what's happening outside of this site. It keeps being brought up because the community outside of the gaming world keeps talking about it. Take a look at this: https://twitter.com/peerign... Investors aren't hardcore gamers (To be fair I'm sure there's some). They're looking at whats going to net the most profit. All their eyes are on Fortnite. Which is exactly why Sony was FORCED to put out a response because people (not us hardcore gamers) won't shut up about it. While they haven't given a solution, that statement is proof of just how big and how impactful Fortnite is. If they choose to completely opt-out, it could harm them in the long run as crossplay continues to be implemented in future titles.
@T9X Wow....people care en masse that they can't play with their friends on PS4? Which people feel this way? Those on PC? Oh wait, they can play with their friends on PS. Those on Mobile? Oh wait, they can play with their friends on PS. What does that leave? Those on the Switch and Xbox. Those two consoles alone combined do not even match half of the PS install base and they are greatly dwarfed by both PC and Mobile. Fortnite may be the biggest game in the world right now, but the only people that are making a fuss are those on Xbox. I don't see any known Nintendo fans making a fuss, although I'd imagine with the nature of switch being a 2nd console for many for their handheld needs, they would have some reason to dislike the cross progression thing, and certainly may want to play with their PS friends. But since they aren't complaining that much, I'm going to say that it's mostly the Xbox fans complaining, since Mobile and PC fans have no reason to complain, and they even get cross progression. So that leaves the question, if all these Xbox fans are so hell bent on playing with their friends on PS, why is it blowing up now that MS finally has an implementation with some games, and hasn't been a point of contention for years now, at least until it became a way to attack Sony as being anti-consumer and evil. Sorry, but the sequence of events just doesn't line up to support your argument, and the current availability of cross play with other platforms actually weakens many of the arguments that I've seen about this issue for a while now.
@rainslacker You're also forgetting about people like myself who do not own an Xbox (I play all their exclusives on PC) but does own every other console. Fortnite just recently came to the Switch and been on PS4 since Day 1. Fortnite was also HUGE prior to coming to the Switch. So people like myself who tried out/played Fortnite on PS4/PC but also have a Switch are interested in the best feature of that console. Portability. Thus, we download the game and go to sign into our account and in return are met with an error message that our accounts cannot be used due to linking our Epic account with our PSN account. You can't unlink your account either. Also I made all my purchases on PC but linked my account so I could use what I paid for on PS4 and keep my progression. So even though Sony never got a single penny from me via Fortnite, their decision on crossplay for this particular title (which also has cross-progression) has blocked my account from all other platforms except PC. I'm sure there's many PS4 users that own a Switch as well. Lets not forget, just because you like the PS4 and so do your friends, doesn't mean everyone else does. In real life the console war isn't really a big deal. People like what they like. Are you going to shun a life long friend because he choose an Xbox over PS4 this generation because that's what he likes and has no interest in a PS4? No, that's ridiculous. All of those people in those situations are also affected. You're delusional if you truly believe the only people complaining are a bunch of "Xbox losers" who are trying to help Microsoft win or get ahead in an internet based trolling console war.
Fans have always wanted cross play. Why wouldn't they. Sony could have controlled the narrative. They could have been incredibly open to it. As they used to be. Instead Microsoft and Nintendo were able to look at the position they had on cross play last year and really took advantage of that to make themselves look way better than "anti cross play anti consumer sony"
No it was more like how can we (ms and ninetendo) work together to try and catch up to sony.
That would kind of make sense if Nintendo wasn’t dominating the portable console market for like 6 generations in a row now. Also, with Switch doing as well as it is, I doubt they’d feel any need to cooperate with Microsoft, of all companies, to topple Sony in a race they haven’t been trying to compete in for a long while. Crossplay is the natural evolution for online gaming. It brings only benefits for consumers. Wether some of you decide to accept that instead of wasting your time defending a corporation’s anti consumer stance is up to you. Sony will eventually embrace it, like they were supposedly open to last gen, so it’s foolish to try and make it seem like it’s a bad thing for everyone just because the parties involved are not to your liking. P.S nothing personal against you, Goldby.
@pygmelionhunter If that as the case for Switch, I don't think they would have agreed to the xbl sign in for Minecraft. No doubt they are moving numbers and their placement in handheld is and will likely always be number 1, but their home console prior to switch weren't doing to hot with the gamers
"their home console prior to switch weren't doing to hot with the gamers" I agree, and I also think Nintendo is well aware the path they're taking with their consoles is not gonna get them #1 spot in the home consoles business, hence the Switch being a hybrid device. In fact, it almost seems as if the Wii U was meant to be more like the Switch at some point. Seeing how they share so many similarities. Anyway, what I was trying to say before is that I don't see Nintendo's decision to cooperate with MS like a scheme to bring Sony down or some evil conspiracy like that. That wouldn't really make sense, regardless of MS's intentions, that I don't care to speculate about.
This is exactly what I said A+ for repeating it but F for comprehension.
I honestly don't think Nintendo has much stake in the home console race. At least not in the way MS and Sony do. Nintendo hasn't been playing this PR game against either of the other two companies. Given Nintendo's usual way of going it alone, it was kind of surprising that they allowed it in the first place. But, when you see that MS is helping Nintendo build their network, it was probably an easy decision to allow it since it won't affect them much, nor affect their ecosystem. I imagine that at some point, MS may make an attempt to have more of their services on the Nintendo ecosystem, at which point, it'll be interesting to see if Nintendo agrees, and how their current partnership fares. NIntendo may be willing to allow MS to do what they're doing now, but if MS presses too hard, I can easily see NIntendo backing off and going their own way again.
No they didn't only a small %. Look at the statistics. Most people dont care about crossplay. Its not stopping anyone from playing on ps4. Turn on ps4 and on twitch or youtube and its all fucking fortnite on ps4. God i hate that fucking game. Lmao
They've always wanted crossplay? Since when?
This crossplay bullshit has blown so out of proportion.
SONY is not the victim and they will open up but it will be their term and Playstation Network will be centralized otherwise why xbox live get the be centralize so no!
You know what's the funny thing about crossover, is that it is minority who wants it badly. It just internet which is the easiest source of media to make noise :)
Typical flawed argumentative technique. Calling out other companies on their misdeeds does not absolve Sony of theirs. The major transgression isn't even cross-play itself. The sin is holding third-party accounts hostage. Sony can restrict their own exclusive games all they want. I don't care. Other players outside the Sony ecosystem don't care. What we care about is having accounts that don't belong to Sony restricted even outside of Sony's systems. Fix that, and the outrage will die down--guaranteed.
There are no misdeeds here. Neither from MS last gen, nor Sony this gen. They have their business reasons for doing what they're doing, and most of the policies involved in both cross play and the account locking date back to before last gen. Sony isn't going to change them on a whim. MS stated they were open to cross play a couple years ago, and it took them two years to get their own implementation going. If you have a problem with the accounts being locked up, take it up with Epic. They're the ones that have to lock the account, Sony has no control over it. But with Epic having their game on the PS4, they have to abide by the policies that exist, and realistically, there is no reason that they have to lock it out of other systems just because someone plays it on PS. They couldn't enable that content on the PS in reverse, but the issue here is with Epic.
It's an EPIC account. Yet you blame Sony for holding it hostage. Do you know the exact reasons why you can't go between platforms? Rockstar let you transfer characters between 360 and PS4 and PS3 and Xbox One using a Rockstar account. So what's Epic's problem?