Backers of the infamous Star Citizen project no longer have any means of demanding refunds from its developer.
Anyone backing this by now should know the risks. Although it is screwed up you wont get a game or refund. But you do get a perpetual alpha.
I'm not surprised by this at all. The game is an ongoing scam, and people are now locked in to their purchases despite the finished product not being delivered yet.
They must really suck at scamming to be wasting their time producing all these game assets then. Wouldn't a better scam not involve building a super complex highly detailed game world? Seems like you might get more money out of it not doing that.
"But it's for the community" lmfao, gtfo with your scam
Star Citizen has received way too much funding (150 million +) for not having a solidified release date. If Star Citizen doesn't release it will be one hell of a scam.
I'm surprised the EU hasn't taken any action. There is no good consumer protection left in the US, but Europe is a different story. In Germany, it is now illegal to take preorders on a product coming out "soon". Not only does there have to be a release date, there also has to be a specified date by which you will get what you preordered (because the release date does not guarantee delivery to you). Think about some investor protection like that getting applied to Star Citizen. Wouldn't that be sweet.
Why do we need more laws to control consumers stupidity? Lawsuits exist for a reason.
annoyedgamer, read the story. The TOS prevents lawsuits. That's another topic of conversation too--how is it possible for any private company to take away anyone's legal rights with a TOS, just because of buying into a product or service? I'm sure it isn't legal worldwide, but it is legal in the States.
In most countries a clause in tos that says you can't sue cannot be upheld. Usually you have an arbitration clause attached to those, and the courts may seem you have to do that before theyll.hear a case, but you can still sue if you don't agree to the arbitration. The nomlawsuit clause only exists to.discourage people.from filing lawsuits, and force arbitration, which usually ends up being beneficial for both parties anyhow
They quoted Derek smart..... let that sink in
Just an awful vile excuse for a man
How long has this gone on? People have given them enough money to finish the game, finish another game, and start 3 businesses.
Don't forget the Ferrari's the top guys are driving.
All the funding goes to wrong game,Imagine Shenmue 3 have that kind budget.
Any people here that backed? I'm quite curious to know your honest opinion. I remember when the campaigns started and everything seemed like a good deal to me. The presentation part was always spot on and everything seemed so genuine. I was a student and short on cash so didn't invest in this game. Throughout the years I saw more and more expensive packs and I couldn't understand how they couldn't do anything yet with 30 million dollars. Then at one point I remember it was around 80 million and thinking it would release soon. But the way they are going this is gonna take either another 5 years at least. Or it's one of the biggest scammes ever in the world. We're talking about an unbelievable amount of money that only one game ever costed this much to develop (GTA V)
Yeah, I backed at the lowest level when the campaign first launched. No regrets, as it's just money and I've long forgotten what I even pledged. It's definitely not a scam; I played the alpha demo's and holy shit even though it was a tiny tiny slice, it was impressive - but no more than a very short tech demo. The problem is, this has become a vanity project for Chris Roberts. Who I think is a raging egomaniac narcissistic surrounded by 'yes men' or people in fear of his wrath. So the project has been allowed to bloat out of all recognition. I would be shocked if we see a viable release in the next 5 years. There is no longer an incentive for the devs to release something soon (such as the single player Squadron 42 mode). They have the money. They have additional investment from third parties. Chris Roberts can sit on his throne and dictate. The only frustrating thing here that the baseline game idea (before we got in to this nutty shit about having an FPS built in in to a space sim) sounded fantastic. And Wing Commander and Privateer have proved that Chris CAN make good games - he just needs controlling. But whether we will ever see his full vision (or even a release before the team collapses under its own weight and ambition) remains to be seen. One thing is for certain. In future this whole episode will be held up as what can go wrong when you give one man too much money, power and control - no matter what the final product is like.
I think you're probably right. But what you described still qualifies as a scam. If I pay someone to build me a house, then he starts building the Acropolis, and tells me after 5 pillars that he needs more money to complete my house, I'd sue the SOB into the ground, next to his marble.
I backed it at the lowest level so I didn't risk too much, but I am still pretty peeved.
I spent 45 dollars and I don't regret it at all. The current build is amazing and the next build will be really close to the finished product..so im not sure how its a scam if its actually shaping up into more than we were promised from its kick starter
Yes, Yes, tell the truth my man even when everyonelse lies. "im not sure how its a scam if its actually shaping up into MORE THAN WE WERE PROMISED from its kick starter". With that said, I think the game looks so so to trash lvl but, I have not played it and nor have I ever been invested into it. I also am not forcing people to keep pouring money in. At some point you have to tell the truth and people have to hold themselves accountable and stop getting into the cage with the Tiger if they don't want to be maimed. You cannot cry nor cry for someonelse when they keep doing it to themselves. I am sure I won't get a job most of the time if I keep choosing to disqualify myself with drugs or self created circumstance.
I backed it and also convinced some of my friends to back it. Given the state the game is in now I don't mind so much that I threw my own money away but I also sent my friends cash to refund them, because I felt guilty about talking them into something that will probably never happen. What gets me and will always get me is that they set the persistent world aside to work on Squadron 42. They also have been working on "stretch goals" before even delivering the main goals and that is the most egregious part to me. I laugh when people talk about how it's turned out because I just go to the original Kickstarter page and look at what they promised and the dates and laugh and cry. They aren't even close to delivering the promise. We were all sold something they can't deliver. That being said I don't know who is still backing them now. I backed them years ago and have since written it off like spending $50 at a casino and losing. Had they delivered what they promised it should have been a good bet. But they didn't, can't, and won't... So I lost that bet.
I personally did not back it, but my brother has. I've played a little bit of it and what they have so far is pretty impressive, I'm just concerned about their ability to tie all the game's different systems together into a compelling product. My brother is a lot more optimistic about it and he's happy with his purchase. He used to get a bit frustrated by their constant failure to get out updates out during their targeted release window, but now he just expects that. Neither of us think the development time is egregiously long. This is easily one of the most ambitious gaming projects out there. It started development around the same time as Dreams or Kingdom Hearts 3 . . . both of those have yet to release. It still has another two years before it hits the development time of Red Dead Redemption 2, three years before it hits the development time for The Last Guardian, and four years until it hits the development time of Final Fantasy XV. It's easily a more ambitious project than any of those are, so I'd say as long as things really start coming together into a cohesive game within the next two to three years I think they'll be alright.
"Neither of us think the development time is egregiously long." Estimated delivery was "NOV 2014" that is a 3+ year delay (so far) and they aren't even close on the final product as described will be released. Comparing it to other projects is beside the point. They set the date, they didnt say "It will take 6 years to develop." Had they done that then okay, but they didnt, they said estimated Nov 2014. This again just proves they arent good at developing games. They cant even give realistic timelines for what they want to make.
@Gh05t, Almost every Kickstarted game fails to meet the targetted release date. The Hollow Knight developers were over a year and a half late, and their project is much much smaller. Guess what? The end product is amazing and it's gotten heaps of praise. Are they bad at developing games? Shenmue 3, which a ton of people are hyped for, is going to miss it's original delivery date for over a year. Does that mean it's going to be bad? Shovel Knight got heaps of praise, but launched a year late. It also didn't even launch with everything promised in the stretch goals and they're still adding more stuff. Does that make Yacht Club Games incompetent? Oculus Rift was three and a half years late. Realistically without any of the feature creep they probably would have been 1-3 years late with the release. With the feature creep even longer should be pretty much expected. They've beeen putting out updates frequently and it's not like they've left backers in the dark. Plus even teams like Rockstar and the Zelda team have set release dates and then failed to meet them multiple times.
The biggest problem seems to be the ambition. The scope of the game has grown much bigger than it's original vision. They don't focus enough on the core product, so they don't meet milestones before setting new ones. That has caused an endless cycle of alpha stagencontent releases with no real coherent game product behind it.
@rainslacker There's definitely a coherent product in their sites, it's just a question of whether or not they will ever get there. I think feature creep is a big issue. I don't think ambition is a problem, as even the initial pitch was high on ambition and that's why a lot of people supported it (and that's also why, even though there's no product yet, there's still people giving more money). I think the biggest issue is from the get-go they should have developed a road-map that allowed them to work on the most essential features first. That way they could have built a fully functioning game and then expanded with more modules outward from there. It's similar to the approach many other kickstarter devs have used. Hollow Knight released and then they've done three major updates and there's another one on the way shortly. Shovel Knight focused on the main campaign and got that out, and they're still releasing more content to the game nowadays with King of Cards coming this year . . . over four years later. If they had prioritized that first with Star Citizen then maybe we'd be looking at a cohesive product today and then in the future there would be updates with the other, non-essential features. Really though, people are really overblowing the development time. Star Citizen is easily one of the most ambitious gaming projects. The amount of time between the original scheduled delivery time and the full release of Hollow Knight with all the stretch goals will have been three years. For Shovel Knight it will have been five. No one should be even remotely surprised it's taking this long. The big thing the development team should have done is prioritized putting out a cohesive product and then expanding it from there, instead of trying to do everything at once.
This game is a total scam.
I have a good friend that works in the industry. About a year and a half ago he told me "THIS GAME IS NEVER COMING OUT BECAUSE THEY ARE MISMANAGING THE MONEY (MAINLY THE WIFE)". and to stay far the fuck away from SC.
As sad as it is to say but backers deserve this, they've essentially funded this scam, it seems only fitting they lose their right to a refund.
Deserve it, how? They were duped. Roberts and crew are the ones who deserve some consequences.
Good graphics, but empty nothingness gameplay.
The development team knows they can get away with never releasing this game and they can keep taking money from gullible because people are still dumb enough to fall for this scam.
The people who invested probably won’t miss it. No one in their right mind with normal commitments would wave bye bye to cash
wake up people if you haven't already now is the time to wake up don't give a penny to this pyramid scheme
The backers made their bed with the most arrogant developers I know of, and now they have to sleep in it. After the kind of things both the developers and backers have said about consoles, I have zero sympathy for them.
Care to elaborate on the arrogant part?
Making a game worth hundreds of millions for a niche market (high end spec PC gamers) that isnt going to turn a profit due to the small size of the market, is arrogant enough. But then referring to markets which could help make the games development and their business more sustainable, as "lesser platforms" and insisting how it must be "dumbed down" is completely idiotic and suicidal, especially when other developers like CD Projekt have gone multi-platform, are still highly rated, and are making millions more as a result.
Hm... As you said, they already made hundreds of millions, so it sounds like they don’t need to profit on sales... High end ultra almost impossible graphics is also one of their top selling points, so they really don’t need consoles. And even disagreeing with their stance on consoles, one has to wonder if they didn’t become even more liked by “master race” pc fanboys after taking shots on “dirty” consoles.
Ps: they don’t really need sustainability. They are millionaire without even releasing the game. The question still stands, though. I’d like to know why else the devs are disliked, apart from the “they don’t care about my platform” (which everyone has been guilty at least once already, no judgements).
They're disliked because as you mentioned yourself, they are already millionaires, dont need sustainability (because they're cowboys) and the only thing they've given back to the community after all these years is a boring incomplete alpha build. Just having to explain this to you is making me lose even more hope in humanity.
Yeah, a world where people like you hate who earned lots of money and became financially independent just because... Yeah, the envy is real. About the bad alpha, yes, there are many degrees of being a nerdy freak. Knowing everything about everything on the internet has its own level. Congrats.
lol "earned" Yep, I'm done here.
You put a mountain of cash in front of someone with no oversight and eventually they will get greedy.
That's something I always thought crowd funding needed. I don't have a problem.with crowd funding, but when you look at professionally owned devs, or even indie with investors, they don't get lump sums of cash to make a game. They get what they need for a.set period of time, and payouts when milestones are met. They also are supposed to be transparent to their investors about how the money is being spent. For campaigns like this, they could have just given half the money to themselves as bonuses, and not have to tell anyone. There is no accountability internally, and given the terms of crowd funding, they generally can't be held accountable legally....something that also doesn't exist in traditional development. What something like kick starter needs is a type of escrow account, with a manager that is capable of distributing the money based in a real development plan and schedule. The amount of info given for most crowd funding about the development of the game would be laughed out of a big investors office.
This game is one massive scheme. Also glad I never bought into the bs promises.
How much more do you think does it take financially to get into space? With a custom made space suit and a cup holder of course. Oh boi dis gonna be fun.gif
Pc gamers getting scammed haha
Crowdfunding is a con job in my book. Amateur devs slush funding cash into their private "hookers and blow" fund.
Cant wait until its everywhere, with everything, for 60.
If it ends up a scam, looking forward to watching the documentary on Netflix.
I paid $30 for the game and a ship. The game comes with the single player campaign and open world. I feel like I got my monies worth by the time it comes out...
Sorry, but I think this is a completely misleading article. The court case it referenced has nothing to do with a "no refund policy". Completely bogus title.
I think its funny that all the whales on this sit scream scam but as soon as a cool video comes out theses whales will spend money and then all the sudden the game will be cool and the downvotes turn to upvotes. Sound familiar Sony? Gaming mob... yawn
Well there goes my $13,431
No idea why anyone spends a dime on Kickstarter. It's all going to come out that was a scam and all the millions were funneled to banks in Venezuela and only a little was used to make fake trailers!
They should have worked on one branch of this game, made it good, shipped it and added on features like how WoW did with MMOs. They have become a joke and really tarnished most fans enthusiasm. I remember considering saving up for the then rumored 1070 years ago to play for the launch of this game. Good thing I got it as a gift and it was back when it was only $15
Chris Roberts has a history of missing deadlines when he had appropriate oversight and someone else's hands on the purse strings. It's nice to believe in what Star Citizen represents... It's another thing entirely to believe it's going to happen. Only the people who funded this stick up for the game and its developers... But guess what? Plenty of people swore Bernie Madoff was making them money. They should have been able to complete 7 games for the money they were given(not even including the loans they've taken out). Sorry guys you've been duped and the money has been stolen. I guess we should give props to Roberts and crew because they found the easiest scam loophole on the planet... Kickstarter.
If everyone is so happy with the game, why are they suddenly denying refunds?
When will people ever learn... Oh well, you know the saying. A fool and his money will part ways...
I can easily wait for the game(s) to come out, watch some Mixer/Twitch streams and decide then, if I want it all. But the way this develops, its gonna be a Gaas type game, so let's wait and see.
At least kingdom come delivered. That too a good game.