Electronic Arts Responds to Regulators Classifying Some Loot Boxes as Gambling

Electronic Arts CEO talks about the decision of some regulators to classify loot boxes in some games as gambling, including FIFA 18.

[Goldby]

If there is no economic value to the loot boxes, then why are you charging real money for them?

[Leeroyw]

I love how there's one EA pr guy singly down voting every comment.

This is an indefensible position.

[AdonisIsBeast]

Regulators want a portion of the profit behind this, which is the main reason why they’re beginning to pressure companies who offer lootboxes.

[rainslacker]

@Adonis

Seems if they wanted the money, they'd allow them to continue so they could just tax the revenues.

[Hardiman]

Jinger was defending EA and loot boxes in the comments sections on a few articles when all the Battlefront II fallout happened. I haven't seen any comments from him yet but I imagine he'll make his or her rounds!

[indyman7777]

LOL....it may not be a PR guy it may be one of those heart and soul sellouts that defend this stuff. We have all seen them on this site.

[WilliamSheridan]

It's gambling, plain and simple. Using real world money for a virtual slot machine that may or may not have any actual real world value. However, you are assigning a value based on the randomness of the item. I can't believe these virtual slot machine loot boxes have existed this long without anyone crushing them...

[JackBNimble]

Slot machines more often then not, pay out nothing.

[fiveby9]

Agreed. Randomized purchases. It's a form of gambling. If companies want to sell cosmetics as microtransaction that is one thing. But to make one's purchase a random is a game of chance. Not sure who buys these things but apparently enough people do that these companies fight hard to keep them. I think they saw the cash EA made with FIFA UT and wanted to get in on that action. I hope these business practices are taken out of games either voluntarily or forcibly.

[WilliamSheridan]

@Jack these loot boxes essentially pay out nothing when they give common items that have no in game value whatsoever

[Chaos_Order]

Exactly. Loot boxes are objectively making games worse.

[Nyxus]

"As a result, the publisher is “continuing to push forward and always thinking about players”

Always thinking about their wallets.

[UCForce]

Yup, EA will pay the price big time. They are not going anywhere. Their greedy antics will fall their on shoulders.

[Imalwaysright]

I think that the author of this article forgot to add the word "wallets" at the end of that statement.

[rainslacker]

You mean the EA exec. The author just relayed quotes. Wouldn't be the first time that EA forgot to add in that wallet qualifier in all those times they said they have the players interest in mind.

[chrisx]

man screw ea

[jerethdagryphon]

Saying theres a chance you get a super item and giving you trash. Is gambling its a prize box type thing like stacker at the arcade tge chance is when x have been bought trigger y

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Why are lying? omg

[Relientk77]

Glad people are standing up to EA and loot boxes

[AnubisG]

The LAW said that this is gambling. You will be fined EA. EA represantatives might even be jailed. Just because you say no, it doesn't mean anything. This has already been ruled gambling. There is nothing you can do EA. You broke the law and if you don't comply than you will face punishment.

I'm loving this.

[rainslacker]

I think they're pushing to change the classification. They are highly unlikely to change any gambling laws, but what made these things illegal in some jurisdictions was that suddenly what they were was considered gambling.

Changing the classification on something is much easier than trying to change a law. Particularly laws which is strictly enforced, and been around for longer than EA.

[Chaos_Order]

I'm loving this too. EA thought they were too big to get a kickback. "Just a bunch of salty gamers." Nope, now the court of law is against them. Entire governments are against them. It's glorious to watch.

[ClanPsi1]

The fact that it's got to this stage is f*cking ridiculous, though.

[Daisysnow]

It's 100% gambling. Sick they allow children to do this!

[strayanalog]

Wait. What?

First off, why would anyone believe the developer that did the loot boxes would admit to the practice being gambling?
As for their two crappy reasons: "players always receive a specific number of items in each pack," yeah, as do a deck of cards.
And "EA do not provide or authorize any way to cash out those items for real-world money. There is no economic value assigned to them." Funny, last I checked you guys assigned an economic value to crystals which were used to get said loot boxes, so this is why we're talking about this now and I believe you guys are bigger idiots.‎

[Finch]

Beyond the first buy of the game. I never spend another dime. I may think about packs I know what I am getting, but never and I mean never would I gamble money on unknowns as loot box's.

[ClanPsi1]

I'm the same with the sole exception being expansions. Not DLC, devs can go f*ck themselves for trying to sell skins and sh*t. I mean actual gaming content that expands on the original game, such as The Last of Us: Left Behind.

[Retroman]

More like thinking about their Wallets.
Like Ea really care........

[TheOttomatic91]

Oh good lord get your head outta your own a** Wilson, you give a bad name to Aussie’s all around.

[titans9999]

EA, so you hear that noise? No? Come on! Listen close....do you hear it yet? Well, let me spell it out for you. You will be damn lucky if you don’t completely shut down your business in the next 10 years....mark my words you are doomed because you are a bunch of idiots! The fact that you still have not learned your lesson about loot boxes tells us gamers that you are....ONE STUPID DEVELOPER...RIP....

[quent]

I bet they're secretly shitting their pants just from the thought of countries deeming FUT illegal gambling, but if they were any kind of woke they'd rather think to themselves, "hey let's makes some geeeems instead of relying on exploiting our younger demographic and not be solely reliant on them for the company to turn a profit"

[stokedAF]

LOL this is obvious stuff here, what are people getting worked up about? They don’t care about a couple countries laws. The laws of other countries (bigger market countries) don’t have those laws. The money they made in MTs covered those countries easily.

“players always receive a specific number of items in each pack, and secondly, EA does not provide or authorize any way to cash out those items for real-world money. There is no economic value assigned to them. They also actively seek to eliminate any kind of trading in illegal environments, working with regulators to achieve that.”

Correct. Like it or not that’s not illegal or “gambling” here and many other countries. EA has also posted financial growth reports rendering this crap talk irrelevant. The “They will be gone soon” talk is nonsense. I’m no special pleader for EA, I think they have terrible management these days and make crappy games. I’m just realistic and don’t base my reality on emotions or wishful thinking. Your favorite studios will close before EA does. Probably after EA buys them and ruins them.

[Tankbusta40]

Of course nothing is going to happen to EA and despite plenty of people hating the practice of loot boxes there are tons of people who spend money on them. They aren't going away and they won't unless people as a whole stop buying them.

[stokedAF]

Yup and people aren’t going to stop buying them. That’s just the reality of it and I can understand trying to find some legal way to end them but the arguments sound desperate and sleazy. Changing the standard to get your end game like you got a game genie lol. Economically we can’t fight the MT consumers equally. But we can prop up other practices and reward the alternatives which I would advocate as a realistic solution.

[rainslacker]

Because if one state in the US makes it illegal, then that effectively makes it so they won't use them at all in the US. Any major country makes them illegal, and that removes them there. EU makes them illegal, that cuts out half of Europe.

It's a cascading effect that EA is trying to avoid, and all this started with the EU and Hawaii.

[stokedAF]

One state can’t classify loot boxes as gambling though. A state can choose to legalize or criminalize gambling, sure. They don’t make up their own rules though. Hawaii didn’t classify them as gambling or ban them either. EA has nothing to be scared of here, there is no way to the outcome you want without changing the gambling standards. And to include loot boxes into the standards classifies so many other harmless things as gambling. It’s a dumb pointless fight, it’s media theatre.

[rainslacker]

That's incorrect. Any state can institute it's own laws about what is and isn't gambling. They have to abide by federal laws which also classify certain things as gambling. Each state can determine how it handles certain kinds of gambling as well, but also have to abide by federal laws which deal with such matters.

True, Hawaii hasn't classified them. But that doesn't mean that EA doesn't have to worry, because it only takes one state, and it's not like some other politician couldn't pursue the same thing....or that Hawaii couldn't revisit the topic.

[stokedAF]

Not exactly true. Well, a State could try I guess. Then try (and fail) to provide the courts and EA with a sufficient enough reason as to why they classified it as such. You can’t single out things for aesthetic purposes and baseless claims. You would have to include everything like it. Banning something that doesn’t break any laws is a slippery slope and it doesn’t have the infectious nature that you think it does. For example here is my state.

Casino Gambling: Not Legal
Poker: Not Legal
Horse Racing Betting: Legal
Dog Racing Betting: Not Legal
Lottery: Legal
Daily Fantasy Sports: Not Specified
Charitable Gaming: Legal
Social Gambling: Not Legal
Online Gambling: not specified

Every single one of these follows a standard and it’s the same for the states. Win or lose mone. States pick and choose which they legalize and how they regulate them but they can’t just declare something gambling when it’s not and ban it for that reason. Adding loot boxes into that standard is just idiotic. It belongs nowhere near any of those lol. It’s not winning or losing money, it’s just wasting money.

If Hawaii was going to do it he would have done it. He can’t do it lol. None of them can really. And no state has any reason to follow them honestly. It’s a pointless and fruitless fight. If it was going to cascade it would have and Hawaii wouldn’t have sizzled out. It’s wishful thinking and you shouldn’t get your hopes up.

With the EU I have no idea, maybe they should be worried. They have nothing to fear here though.

[rainslacker]

Again that's wrong. A state can indeed classify anything they want. Whether it's constitutional is something for the courts to decide. If a state can make a case that they consider something gambling, based on criteria already established, then they can classify it as gambling.

The structure of the US constitution allows states to regulate their own affairs. They have to abide by federal laws on many things, but even with that, they can legalize many things that the federal government says are illegal(unless it's specifically spelled out in an amendment like say slavery). Many drug laws being the most relevant example of things they legalize which are illegal on the federal level. It can work in reverse as well, and since there is no constitutional right to gambling, it's unlikely that the case will ever make it to court for judgement.

Most states do abide by the federal laws for gambling and decide if it's legal to do it within their borders. However, the federal government has a broad definition for what is considered gambling...and it basically amounts to games of chance that involve money being spent to play, with a chance to gain your money back.

A state doesn't even have to classify it as gambling. They can just say that it isn't legal to sell it in that state. Guns for instance. In different states, it is legal to buy some guns that you couldn't buy in another state.

Whether it's pointless for another state to try is besides the point. It only takes one, and it isn't unlike politicians to try and make their mark in some way. It only takes one to make their case in a way that people accept enough to get a law passed. On top of that, it isn't even something that involves law, because it could just become a regulatory thing, as most states have committees which set the rules for these things.

[stokedAF]

“Again that's wrong. A state can indeed classify anything they want. Whether it's constitutional is something for the courts to decide. If a state can make a case that they consider something gambling, based on criteria already established, then they can classify it as gambling.”
How am I wrong? That’s exactly what I said, they could try lol. Based on the criteria already established? There is no case then. That’s the point.

“Many drug laws being the most relevant example of things they legalize which are illegal on the federal level.”
Right and the DEA is still free to raid those states. Not sure what that has do with anything lol. States have their own laws, I know.

“It can work in reverse as well, and since there is no constitutional right to gambling, it's unlikely that the case will ever make it to court for judgement.”
What are you saying exactly lol? What wouldn’t make it to judgement? The targeting of a business model that doesn’t meet the established criteria?

“Most states do abide by the federal laws for gambling and decide if it's legal to do it within their borders. However, the federal government has a broad definition for what is considered gambling...and it basically amounts to games of chance that involve money being spent to play, with a chance to gain your money back.”
It’s not broad, its simple. All of those things I listed fall into a simple standard. “Are you betting on economic value?” That’s it. The examples EA used in the article are clearly lawyer talk. You win the same amount every time, you can’t collect and cash out and the product has no economic value outside the game. They hit the bullets, not gambling. They even added in the “we help fight illegal trading” to be extra kiss ass lol. They couldn’t care less about trading.

“A state doesn't even have to classify it as gambling. They can just say that it isn't legal to sell it in that state. Guns for instance. In different states, it is legal to buy some guns that you couldn't buy in another state.”
That’s true. Hawaii could ban loot boxes because they want to for no real reason, it won’t happen though. That would be a lot easier but that kind of statism isn’t as popular as you think. There is a reason they are trying to classify it and not go iron curtain, they are the “good guys”. I don’t get the gun comparison.

“It only takes one to make their case in a way that people accept enough to get a law passed.”
Good luck lol.

“On top of that, it isn't even something that involves law, because it could just become a regulatory thing, as most states have committees which set the rules for these things.”
Regulation is law. Law from unelected people.

[Knightofelemia]

"Always thinking about players" I think that's the biggest lie EA has ever told this year

[UCForce]

EA is the worst. We will never forget what EA did to Dead Space developers.

[quent]

Its they're biggest lie every year, or should I say easiest, like breathing for them

[ClanPsi1]

And it's only May. They have 7 1/2 more months to top themselves! And I'm 100% certain they will.

[blacktiger]

More they talk about EA, the more I get nervous. Bad Company 3 :)

[ClanPsi1]

Don't worry, even if they make a BC3 it will be f*cking awful. Dice doesn't have any talent left. They all abandoned ship after Battlefield 3.

[UCForce]

Even Dice asked a dumb question why people love Bad Company 2 so much. My god ! Dice was clueless.

[Hardiman]

Ah EA the bane of the gaming industry!

[Berenwulf]

No economic value... yeah right, but there are tons of sites where you can trade gut coins against real money... Yes we get the specified amount of cards per pack but obviously not every pack is equal in worth.

[Gantrfaxx]

The Casino defends gambling, riiight!

[MeteorPanda]

Does this mean most f2p games are gonna come under fire? League of legends promote gambling too with their hextec skins and theyre not being labelled

[DJStotty]

ok EA,

explain to your "fanbase" how you set the percentage chance of receiving higher rated players (in-form, TOTW etc) higher if you use FIFA points to open the packs, as opposed to just using coins to open the packs?

[DJStotty]

Paying real money, for a "chance" of getting something based on a percentage set by said company involved, is gambling, pure and simple

[GrizToof]

What I say is that loot boxes are actually worse than gambling. You get addicted to throwing your money into a game of chance and even if you win “big” it’s stil worthless because you can’t cash out and get money back for your “winnings” so it’s all the same things as gambling but you never really win anything.

[ImportGamer3004]

lootboxes in $60 games charged with real world currency F@ck that noise. Give me a complete game, not some bollocks from EA, Microsoft & Ubisoft who want to milk their customers wallets dry as they see them merely as idiots.

[ImportGamer3004]

Times like these make me miss the 90's when i was a kid. Sure graphics to games aren't like games today, but at least when you bought a videogame you got the complete game from the get go.

[Nyxus]

Just get the good games like God of War, Persona 5 and Horizon, and ignore these 'service' games.