Nintendo's 'lack of innovation' has always been a myth. If you need evidence, just look at Star Fox

Nintendo is often impugned, wrongfully to our minds, as being a company perennially behind the times, slow to adopt new technologies and slower still to innovate. Critics of the company will often cite the Japanese publisher’s reliance on a handful of key franchises generation after generation as evidence of this creative immobility.

Star Fox is a wonderful example of how this simply has never been the case. When it was released in 1993 it wasn’t the first attempt at making a 3D game, nor even the first to launch on a console, but it was technologically one of the most ambitious, pushing the boundaries of what was thought possible on a 16-bit machine. The same year Doom would be landing on PCs and Daytona USA would arrive in arcades, but certainly nothing close was thought feasible on a home console.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

I agree

[fenome]

Nintendo has always done it's own thing whether good or bad. Either way they've always been innovative though, there's no denying that. I think a lot of people don't even actually understand the meaning of the word.

in·no·va·tive
adjective
(of a product, idea, etc.) featuring new methods; advanced and original.
"innovative designs"
(of a person) introducing new ideas; original and creative in thinking.

[mastiffchild]

I have never heard ANYBODY EVER accuse Nintendo of failing to innovate. Seriously, who has been saying this? It isn't even something a rival fanboy would say imho. Slagging off Nintendo for some archaic business nonsense, Amiibo being an awful con, lack of third party support or understanding, too few new IPs I have heard but not lack of innovation.

Zelda and Mario were both innovative last year, Switch itself, Wii, WiiU, DS are all innovative platforms and just because they're pretty conservative in other ways(family values and ancient business sensibilities)does not equate to a lack of innovation in hard or software.

Sony are also innovative, as are MS but all do innovation very differently. Labo is innovative and that's just this week and I maintain that I have never seen anyone bash Nintendo in this score.

[fenome]

I've never heard anyone criticize them for lacking innovation either, everything else you mentioned yes, but not that.

[septemberindecember]

I don't know why anyone would say Nintendo lacks innovation.

[-Foxtrot]

Innovation is not the issue...it’s just whether it’s good or bad innovation that people have a problem with

Usually they are behind in certain areas I mean look at their online or voice chat...and the Switch is a generation in front, it’s like “come on guys you’ve had plenty of time”. Instead they are now focused on cardboard...when they have other stuff on their “to do” list that’s where their priorities should be first.

[fenome]

Implementation isn't their strong point. They've got cool ideas and awesome concepts, they just seem to have a hard time taking it to fruition. They try to act like the gimmicks are a backbone rather than a cool feature. That's just my takeaway though, don't read too much into it.

Edit:

Their online everything sucks, that's something they should try to get outside help from. I'm still holding off on a switch, personally. Zelda looks good, I want to try it, but I'm not buying it for that. Once Bayonetta 3 comes out I might have to give it a shot. Still gutted they got the rights to that but it is what it is. I haven't had a true Nintendo console since the N64 (I still have a Wii, but I still don't count that)

[-Foxtrot]

I think the issue with Nintendo is they are too bothered about doing things first...even if those ideas are not quite ready for the market. Least then they can be like "well we did it first" even if someone came along soon after and did it way better.

Like the Switch is basically what we should have had with the Wii U but they were so quick to get the Wii U out because of the concept that in the end it fell short.

[Neonridr]

The Wii U was never meant to be something you left your house with though. The gamepad was always just a controller, not the device itself.

[-Foxtrot]

Neonridr

I feel like you see what you want to see here because you're taking everything as an attack that you have to defend

Right...I said

"the Switch is basically what we SHOULD have had with the Wii U"

Implying that since people always said it would have been better if you could take it on the go...it's like they wanted to go in the direction they've finally done with the Switch but couldn't do it yet. However they still decided to do a half arsed version of their idea where you couldn't take it out the house. Thus the Wii U was born...it feels like a half step to the Switch.

That goes to my point I made above where I said

"they are too bothered about doing things first...even if those ideas are not quite ready"

[_-EDMIX-_]

@Neo- "The Wii U was never meant to be something you left your house with though."

Except you don't know that...and Nintendo actually confirmed exactly what Fox is saying.

https://technabob.com/blog/...

"Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has now said that in early talks, the portable console was discussed. Apparently, that was ultimately ruled out because they wanted better graphics and didn’t think a battery powered device could provide that."

But, I guess Iwata is lying and you know more huh?

Many of us guessed that Wii U was likely orgiinally just a portable as Nintendo BASE IS PORTABLE. DS outsold Wii, 3DS outsold Wii U, GBA outsold GC. Soooooooo portable is their base. They probably should have just made it portable and left the home console market in 2012 and they probably would have been ok, I think 3DS release earlier is why they didn't want to make another portable. They probably should have just bit the bullet and went 100% portable like you see now and just put all 3DS games on Wii Portable and they would have been ok. They are doing pretty good right now so ....clearly their idea of going portable only was just and sound. Look at the sales..

So, when I hear "was never meant", I'd actually listen to Nintendo, vs random N4G member

[Neonridr]

again, if you don't like Labo, don't buy it. They aren't replacing any games with this. I would imagine there was an entirely different team who came up with and are responsible for this idea. Much like amiibos were handled separately.

[-Foxtrot]

The Labo wasn't really the main point of my comment, it was an example, I could have said something else like Amiibos. Whether it's a different team your still putting resources to that rather then putting it towards the teams you have doing the other things, like a team who's sorting the online out, if for example it's a team of 100 people (example remember) then I'd rather see them hold on with Labo/Amiibo and put the 100 people from those teams onto the online one. Once the online is finished you can then take some away for new ideas like Labo.

The point I'm making is they have a lot to improve on which should have been worked on last gen, I'm not talking about "being the same" and joining in with VR or 4K but features like online and voice chat which are pretty common things to have in this day for a console.

Why would you spread yourselves thin focusing on doing this, this and that when you have stuff to work on.

Getting the Online up and running
Better voice chat
Maybe a few new AAA IPs like what they did for Splatoon
Gamecube games on the store
Maybe their own version of achievements/trophies

So on...

[Neonridr]

technically they don't *need* gamecube games on the Switch. I am sure they have plenty of new IPs in the pipeline. Achievements / trophies - nice to have but hardly needed.

Their online infrastructure definitely needs work. Especially if they expect us to pay for it. Their idea for voice chat is a joke, and I hope it's something they can rectify at some point. Honestly, I would sooner them do what MS did with the Xbox One DRM stuff and be like "after careful analysis we decided to go back to the drawing board on that one" and then just use voice chat like how everyone else does.

Still, I am glad we are seeing things like this labo project coming from Nintendo. Again, I don't need them to be the same as everyone else. I have my gaming PC and my PS4 Pro for when I feel like playing games the old fashioned way.

[-Foxtrot]

We don't need Gamecube games? Are you seriously saying "Nah...I'm good"? Come on man people would love to download Super Mario Sunshine, Luigis Mansion, Double Dash, Smash Bros Melee, Metroid Prime, Animal Crossing and the like. There's literally no con to us as gamers if they do put them on the store. I bet if they announced it tomorrow though you'd be using it as a huge win for Nintendo and change your tune though right?

I'd like the exact same from Sony with PS1 games...you know the games people bought on the PS3 PSN store. They need their PS1 classics just like Nintendo need to release the Gamecube games. It's a huge win for us as it's more old school titles to play.

It's not the end of the world but it'll be nice to go through Super Mario Sunshine or Luigis Mansion again

[Neonridr]

oh, don't get me wrong, I would love there to be Gamecube games on the system. But you can't say that it's a knock against the machine because we don't have them. F-Zero GX, Mario Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion.. possibly some Eternal Darkness, Rogue Squadron 2/3, plus many more..

[_-EDMIX-_]

? No buddy. Nintendo is going to need to have that EShop have Gamecube, N64 games etc. They don't have the same support you see from PS4, XONE, PC etc, so they need to rethink their content and can't rest on big AAA 3rd parties. Sony or MS may not "need" support from those older games, but Nintendo isn't getting a Call Of Duty, Destiny, Assassins Creed. Battlefront, Battlefield etc like clockwork like PS,PC and XB are getting.

I don't even see the point in arguing against it, how does it hurt you to have more games? Nintendo's platform is basically 99% GEARED towards Nintendo fans in terms of games.

90% of XB owners will not buy all of MS games.
90% of PS owners will not buy all of Sony's games. Why?

Well Sony and MS are basically the Netflix of gaming, they are not the CBS Stream or something, ie catering to 1 demographic. So...if you are CBS, you won't be able to get those HUGE deals with films or shows, but what you can do is go into some of that older content as those who are subscribing ot CBS, are buying it in the 90 percentile to WATCH CBS CONTENT, MOST are not going on Netflix to ONLY watch Netflix exclusives...why? They have LOTS of content, thus, if you are Nintendo, go with what you are good at.

RELEASING Nintendo content. I see nothing that can help Nintendo NOT doing it, what does it help you to get less on a platform already receiving less content and basically no real hope for many series to appear on it? At some point, I think its clear to many users, some 3rd party series will NEVER come to Switch. Thats ok, it happens, but that should not apply to Nintendo themselves. They can't control what 3rd party does, but they can control what they themselves put out and I think it will be wise for them to get those systems up and running on eshop.

They don't have the luxury of a COD, FF, KH3, Battlefront, Battlefield, Destiny etc moving units for them.

Neo....not everything needs to be this defensive battle. I'm not even entirely sure why you are arguing against more content. They need those games when they have a laundry list of 3rd parties that have no plans to release AAA Ips on those systems so...

" I have my gaming PC and my PS4 Pro for when I feel like playing games" Thanks for proving the point being made too. Most Nintendo fans already get that this system can't be trusted for that type of 3rd party support. Even MORE REASON for them to look to add Gamecube, N64 etc. Nintendo still needs to support its fans and fill that void. Its very cheap to do and it doesn't effect their new games as that is a whole different process.

[Neonridr]

@EDMIX - nah, the reason I own multiple devices is because I am a true gamer at heart. I don't care where the games come from. So many people on here are devoted to one platform and one platform only. I get it if there are financial reasons, these things aren't cheap. But I am blessed with a situation where I am able to afford multiple devices and multiple consoles. I want to experience all that is out there. I am not blind to assume that Nintendo alone would satisfy my hunger. But then again, neither would Sony. I need my Zelda and Mario games, but that doesn't mean I still don't enjoy playing the Destiny's, CoD's or VR games.

I like to embrace all of what is out there, the more games and experiences I can enjoy, then the more fulfilled I feel as a gamer. Maybe you disagree, I don't know. Just my personal opinion. But it's hilarious how now suddenly Nintendo absolutely needs their virtual console to be considered a success. Switch dominated this past year in so many territories and sold a boat load of consoles and games. Nintendo doesn't NEED to do anything right now, they just need to continue releasing high quality first party titles and keep working with 3rd party studios to help flesh out the library.

Gamecube games will come some day, but I am not crying about it if it doesn't happen tomorrow.

[_-EDMIX-_]

agreed. I get they can do their cardboard box thing, but they need to focus on some staples before looking to try new things, they can't even got the old things right that other companies have been doing for generations now. Its just misdirection if you ask me.

No reason in 2018 should we be seeing this type of online or voice chat.

[michellelynn0976]

Not a portable. A hybrid.

[Cy]

Lack of innovation was never the issue? It was innovation nobody wanted that was the issue.

[Einhander1971]

Nintendo have always innovated, or have been brave enough to try and bring different things to market.

[FATHASUN]

Nintendo has always innovated. Many are blind because they manage to do so withing the confines of it's more famous properties.

Mario games all by themselves almost always innovated. Yes.. it's Mario again but the actual gameplay changes quite a lot from entry to entry.

That just for starters.

[talocaca]

Who exactly acuses Nintendo of lack of Innovation?

I do think that sometimes they should create new IPs (they are realizing that) but other than that, they are absolutely amazing.

Mario Odyssey and Zelda: BOTW are both GOTY material with innovative gameplay and top notch quality.

[bluefox755]

They innovate plenty, unfortunately much of it comes off rather gimmicky.

[TheOttomatic91]

I think your mistaking lack of innovation for lack of new IP.

[mastershredder]

......okay.... you are crediting an entire company with the innovative gameplay ideas of a select few people behind the development process in which is true in most cases with Star Fox, not to mention that they also have handed it off before to Rare and Namco to further develop this IP to go where it is today.

Seriously ....some gamers and their fractured realities.

[Teflon02]

for me the problem is that they usually take these innovations too far like skyward only having motion controls and even worse the controls weren't great. The idea sounds cool and cool for short bursts but a game that long playing like that just gets absolutely annoying. It ruined it for me. I hate that they make some games rely on gimmicks too much. That they always do. I still hate kid icarus on 3DS and will never like it because of the stupid controls for it. Those touch screen to control zeldas, and so on. I hate that stuff. Or the fact that some things are exclusive to using your joycons as wiimotes for mario odyssey. They need to balance those things better imo. Never heard anyone in my life say Nintendo isn't innovative. Must be clickbait

[masterfox]

Sooo they are talking about the SNES a 28 year console, a console that in that time wasn't plagued with Marios, Zelda or Pokemons games only, in that time technically speaking, the SNES was up to their current time and assembled with such specs so it was affordable to all customers, what I'm trying to say is that Nintendo wasn't behind times like it is today with the Switch, the SNES because of this ideology it was and for me one of the best consoles ever created along side the Sega Genesis, games were releasing like crazy not just shovel games but awesome games as well, not only Starfox was stunning and still is, but other games were released using more advance visual settings like Killer Instinct, Donkey Kong Country, a time when a Mario game was released was really something special or a Zelda game too, not like today with the Switch they only talk just Mario, Zelda or freaking pokemons all the damn time.

Nintendo it really lacks innovation, releasing a tablet with detachable controllers, OMG that never has been done before!, right people right ?, well YES!, that has been done dozens of times before the Switch, the only difference here is that Nintendo brand is plastered all over the box. The Switch will never see such innovation like Nintendo did with Starfox Super FX chip, and that is pretty easy to assume cause the Switch is just a Wii U in portable mode with handheld limitations, oh and if you didn't know the Wii U was released almost seven or six years ago, and you know what's even worst ?, when the WiiU was released it can barely surpass the PS3 visually speaking, so you do the count in how old technically is that thing called Switch.

So in the end please don't even try to compare the golden era of the SNES to this nefarious era of the Switch, we are talking of the two very different Nintendo's here, one Nintendo that really care of innovation and technology(PAST) and the other that only care for money, cheap tricks to attract people and releasing cheap devices(PRESENT), I mean seriously they are going to sell you cardboard people!, literally.