DICE “Would Have Loved” If Progression System Hadn’t Impacted Battlefront II Review Scores

The developer offers its comments on the Star Wars Battlefront
II review scores being impacted by the game's progression system.

[NewMonday]

Gamers: “Would Have Loved” If Progression System Hadn’t Impacted our wallets.

[WilliamSheridan]

Sadly the only thing that probably stopped them is this "investigation".

[fiveby9]

I imagine these investigations caught the eye of Disney who in turn had a talking to with EA. So now EA is scrambling to somehow preserve their MT system and not appear to be exploitative with children.

[fenome]

^^
Emily works for EA, get her!

[showtimefolks]

Fenome

Lol

[Diffraction_Fos]

They can have a 10/10 review from me. Its just that I'm keeping it locked behind one of my billion loot boxes. Wanna try your luck, DICE? Only $20 per box.

[Jamesx82x]

It sucks that all of DICE's hard work into creating BF2 got smacked around in reviews because of a decision that was no doubt EA's but that is the nature of the beast and if reviewers had not done so people would be claiming pay offs by EA. Someone has to look out for consumers and in the market the only people who can do that are reviewers because publishers are only looking at their bottom line.

[RememberThe357]

Would things have been so bad if they would have avoided the random progression and just laid out a clear path (like every other game they've made)? I mean, in reality I can deal with MTs in a game I love but random progression sort of defeats the purpose of progression all together.

[NewMonday]

@Jamesx82x

well said! price value should be a primary part of the overall score

[fenome]

@Jamesx82x

Yeah but DICE intentionally developed this game like this though. Yes, I know EA pays them and they have to do as They're told but I think it's good that they get humbled a bit for this whole situation.

It really just sucks that EA holds the rights to so many great IPs and has so much talent under them and this is the crap they come up with. Can you imagine the games we could be getting if they just allowed somebody to really pour their heart into something?

They could change their image and the whole gaming landscape in a positive way instead of a negative one. Unfortunately money talks and the execs don't actually care about games. They just care about that bottom line and they'll obviously do anything to maximize profits. Hopefully they end up shooting themselves in the foot and fall off a cliff as far as I'm concerned. I'm not paying them to get richer, I've got bills too.

[1nsomniac]

@fiveby9 you think Disney has a problem with exploiting children??

[Jinger]

It doesn't.

[RommyReigns]

Are you an employee of EA?

[Jinger]

@Rommy

No, but why? Did i say something incorrect? How does progression effect your wallet?

[ThatDudeMunkee]

It actually does affect the gameplay, @Jinger. It affects every aspect of the game, which is why it's a controversy in the first place, and was even the cause behind Mass Effect: Andromeda's multiplayer sucking. I wasn't going to shell out 15-20 dollars for a CHANCE to get a character or an upgrade of the character I had.

Same goes for Overwatch or any game. I don't buy loot crates. They're just a cheap way to scalp money off players in a casino-like fashion. A fashion that dictates rewards by offering little gain over the monetary value of the crate itself.

It's a problem and we as a community are fed up. We've lashed out in protest and we don't seem to be backing down as a community.

[Jinger]

@thatdude

No, see, that's your WALLET effecting PROGRESSION.

what he said was I wish the progression didn't effect our wallets. Insinuating that you HAVE to pay to progress. Which is simply inaccurate.

[RommyReigns]

@ThatDudeMunkee

Don't bother trying to reason with this member of EA Defence Force, obviously a shill trying to justify microtransactions, lootboxes and other stuff designed to fleece the wallets of gamers and exploit little kids who don't know better.

[PapaBop]

Even if you take out the p2w elements of the progression system, it's still really really bad. Being rewarded with rng loot crates which may or may not benefit the class you just pumped 20 hours into? That's just stupid. Even after they removed the ability to buy them with real money, I hope reviewers still lay into them for their stupid progression system.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

This is the first time I've ever upvoted you.

Mark the date.

[BobbyFails]

100% Agree

[XiNatsuDragnel]

I would of loved it if you didn't have these lootboxes in your game. But all can not be happy can we?

[darthv72]

Would that be directed at Dice or EA? I wouldnt think any dev would purposely put in such things but the publisher would. Dice gets paid for their work based on what they are contracted for. EA gets paid by the consumer so it seems more their style to push the MT/LB narrative instead of Dice.

[Sunny_D]

An independent Dev can easily decide to do the same if they wanted to. It’s all about money, and most companies will want to squeeze as much as they can out of the consumer.

[Mikelarry]

I was reading on a different forum and one of the former Activision and EA head mentions that some of the most egregious anti consumer BS actually comes from the dev and the publishers can sometime be the one to push back and the big ol evil pubs are not always the EVIL PUB.

linky
https://twitter.com/MatPisc...

[darthv72]

Yeah that is true of independent devs because many of which do their own publishing so that makes sense in that respect. But Dice isnt an independent dev. EA as the publisher is more or less calling the shots. Which is why they were able to flip the switch so quickly.

In many cases, the devs have no say unless they want to take their project and find another publisher and risk all they have worked for up to that point.

[fiveby9]

@Mikelarry I like to think DICE is the good guy here and caught in the crosshairs. But I think that's a bit rose-colored glasses. To think nobody at DICE is partly to blame is probably naive. Probably many of the artists, writers, coders, tests, etc at DICE are just gamers too and delivered top-notch performance in their area of expertise. But clearly, someone at DICE devised this progression system. What a shame. How disappointing. EA's platitudes about free DLC etc etc many months ago was all just a ruse.

[Diffraction_Fos]

I don't believe even for a second that developers are completely innocent in these kind of situations. People love to put all the blame on the publishers, which in many cases may be true, but I tend to believe that developers are not the completely innocent and helpless sheep that some gamers make them out to be. Sure, the publishers will rightly shoulder the majority of the blame, but I can't help but fault the developers to a certain extent as well.

[UnHoly_One]

Would have, not would of.

[Mr Marvel]

Agreed. It always annoys me when people make this mistake.

[blacktiger]

Amazing you actually have time to correct. Incase you didn't know no one cares because internet is changing the communication of English

[Bahamut]

Thank you. So many people are tards and screw this up.

[UnHoly_One]

Yes blacktiger, the internet is making people more ignorant.

I won't argue with you on that one at all.

[TankCrossing]

From the admittedly small amount of time I've played on the EA Access trial, it feels very much 'pay 2 gamble 2 win'.

[Ittoittosai]

That's cause it is. Ubisoft used them in Assassins creed origins and called them even in the online story....time savers. Thats what EA wants people to believe their bullshit lootbox system is "time saver"

[Jinger]

That's funny because I have played 10 hours of the trial and I feel the opposite.

[Elwenil]

Considering your comment history, you look like a shill from EA so I doubt anyone is going to take anything you say seriously.

[Jinger]

@Elwenil

Yes I'm an EA shill oooOOOOooo I created this account a while ago awaiting this day to sit here and defend BFront 2 and EA.

Fact is, I have played it, I have experienced it, I know exactly what the p2w model does and how star cards effect gameplay and its pretty insignificant.

[andrewsquall]

@Elwenil No, ginger is clearly another Xbox fan by default and the only reason he is defending this is because the only console manufacturer that comes close to this EA level of nonsense is, of course, Microsoft. Admitting that this is bad would mean admitting that its inclusion in Forza 7 is also bad, its simply not going to happen.

[Jinger]

@Andrew

Lol just stop. No one is even talking about MS and your fanboy ass had to shove it in. You're embarrassing.

[datriax]

Maybe because you have s**t between your ears? I'm thinking so.

[Liqu1d]

Before EA removed MTs you could pay real money to gamble for advantages. That's a fact.

[rainslacker]

Well when you play 400 hours, and only have about 10% of the content, let us know how you feel then.

@Elwenil

He's not a shill, he's just a troll. He'll take a contrary opinion to anything that gets people riled up.

[RememberThe357]

If that's really the case this is one sad fella.

[AspiringProGenji]

Well done reviewers! Don’t let them get away with it

[Rimeskeem]

That's your damn fault!

Next time don't make the progression system based on my money!

[rpvenom]

Why wouldn't the progression system affect the review?? That's like saying.. Oh we made this new car, it look pretty, sounds great but we wish they didn't based their opinion off the engine..

[Many-hat5]

Yet it's strange how many reviews either brush over the MT's or ignore them completely.

[RevXM]

Yeah. imagine if you had to gamble 20 bucks everytime at the gas station to unlock the gas filler cap. want to progress? buy our loot box and maybe unlock the gas cap lol.

[Nodoze]

Gamers would have loved if EA didn't F things up YET AGAIN. Star Wars is arguably one of the most powerful licensing vehicles in ALL OF THE WORLD. Yet EA STILL manages to F things up.

[SolidDuck]

Played it on EA Access. Super generic boring shooter, with a super pretty Star Wars coat of paint on it. Bought the first one, regretted it, won’t buy this one. Let me know when they make them like the old ones.

[Ittoittosai]

So you wanted a major aspect of the main focus of the game....the MP, that had paid to progess loot boxes, not to effect the score game? What planet are this people from?

[kevinsheeks]

The planet where they are in a 79 billion dollar industry but also poor while we the consumers are apparently rich whales?

[Ittoittosai]

Apprently

[AnubisG]

Yes, they cry their eyes out how poor they are yet here we are struggling to pay billd and can't afford health insurance. My heart just bleeds for these poor poor poor rich people.

[datriax]

And we're supposed to give a rat's a** what DICE thinks or feels because.........?

[AnubisG]

And we would have loved if you would have given us a game and not a gambling machine.

[CrimsonWing69]

i guess next time don't put them in then?

[DillyDilly]

It not a progression system when its pay to win may Battlefront 2 crash & burn

[DillyDilly]

Can Disney take the Star Wars license away from EA ? They are doing more harm than good at this point & right on the eve of The Last Jedi releasing is also not helping Disney

[rainslacker]

If I had to guess, Disney couldn't do so without putting out some money in the process.

However, most licenses like this also have clauses which stipulate that the games have to meet certain expectations or they could be taken away. Another typical clause is anything that may jeopardize the franchise could also allow disney to take it away. The latter is similar to how sponsors can take away sponsorships from athletes or celebrities.

Realistically in this place, I think Disney was probably on board with this implementation of MT. They would have had plenty of input into the game, and would likely have to approve something so significant involving money because they likely get their cut. I don't know if Disney could take the license away without paying EA money because of this. Disney will likely stay silent for now, because they won't want to be in the hotseat. I'd love to see what they have to say about it, but I feel that gaming journalist getting Disney to issue a statement would be pretty difficult considering most publications wouldn't have very good connections to get those questions answered, and I don't know if it's at the point where Disney would have to intervene in the current crap PR job that EA is doing. With all the heat on EA, Disney would be content being left out of it.

[Swiftfox]

There was an article on the front page earlier sort of explaining the details of what happened between Disney and EA. Apparently Disney gave free reign to EA to monetize the license as they saw fit (the lootboxes and microtransactions). However, due to the backlash in the media and pending an investigation into lootboxes as gambling marketed toward children by a select few groups, Disney threatened to terminate the exclusive deal with EA unless things changed.

Which says even more how low EA will go--Disney's intervention implies EA had no intention of changing anything about the game. Disney aren't the hero's here (I mean they signed the license to EA one of the worst rated companies in the USA), and Disney did it for their own long term monetary reasons but hey at least something might happen now in regards to real change and some well deserved attention to this overall issue of lootboxes in games.

[DillyDilly]

I'd imagine Disney also does not want this negative attention with tar Wars right before a new movie comes out

[Relientk77]

Gamers would have loved if there wasn't microtransactions, loot boxes, and pay 2 win BS in the game.

[OpenGL]

"Developer would have loved if game being bad hasn't impacted review scores."

[Mikelarry]

and I would love Halle Berry, Eva mendes, eva longoria all as my wives but hey, we cant win them all

[cooperdnizzle]

I’ll second that motion!

[RememberThe357]

Yo, could I take Eva on the weekends?

[HeisenbergX]

You sold your soul to the devil DICE i’m sorry but i’m glad this is happening ! FUCK EA

[TheVetOfGaming]

Dice used to be a company with integrity; not any more.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

We all would have loved it if EA wasn't synonymous with dick in a box.

[r3f1cul]

even without the paying for it shit, its stupid to never get anything for the class you want to play as unless you get it through sheer dumb luck from this horrid gambling system :/ remove the pay to win and you still have the shittiest progression system i think ive ever seen ... i mean the whole point of progression is to play as something or in someway until you unlock the desired reward, but in BF2/2 there is no guarantee you will ever unlock stuff for your heavy while playing dozens of hours as the heavy or anything else etc etc its awful and completely absurd ...

[lio_convoy]

Of course they would have loved it if their microtransactions wouldn't have impacted their scores, but its a new world and they did!

[DillyDilly]

EA stock has been going down https://www.cnbc.com/2017/1...

[Felsager]

DICE games are for entertainment with a fair business treatment. The way EA did this business screwed your game up, making many of us skip your game.

3470 hours is an EDP in architecture while 4500 hours is the time spent to unlock all the characters intended in the game. Games doesn't give us a job, education or food. We get entertainment out of them for a FAIR price.

Next time think twice EA.

[Imalwaysright]

Guess they didn't get the bonus check that is given to developers depending on how well the game scored on metacritic. http://replygif.net/i/748.g...

[yeahokwhatever]

"progression system" HAHAHAHAHAA

[isarai]

Yeah im sure a lot of developers "would have loved" if shitty aspects of there games didnt affect review scores

[DrumBeat]

Oh get lost. The game isn't that good anyway.

[blacktiger]

It should impact since microtransaction is part of the game play system. idiot!

[bigmalky]

Tough. Stand up to your bosses or leave them and form a publisher that doesn't suck the blood from it's games and customers.

I'm sure if you quit, many decent publishers will snap you lot up anyway. Dice have a great reputation... EA do not.

[ZombieKiller]

I hope Disney realizes how toxic EA is to life and gets rid of them. I'd love a jedi based adventure done by CD Projekt Red. One can dream right?

They're just bad for the industry in every way

[Gwiz]

EA the only reason you responded is because of governments.

[ThatDudeMunkee]

Gamers would have loved to not have dealt with microtransactions ruining our gaming experience. Odd how that works.

[daBUSHwhaka]

Well DICE you fly with the crows you get shot with the crows..

[Mr Marvel]

That’s like saying: “We wish the shitty parts of the game didn’t impact our review scores.”

Sorry, but just like every other review, the game is reviewed as a whole.

[DillyDilly]

My guess after all is said & done ? EA will abandon Battlefront 2 & work on the next one

[GNCFLYER]

I was wondering when this article would come out.

Also wondered how this affects dice monetarily. Usually the development teams get kickbacks for reaching certain milestones with their game. One of those has often been meta critic score..

Love ya dice but you got burned by the most evil publisher out there.

[Tedakin]

It is pretty crappy, even though they did this to themselves, cause this is a huge and amazing game. Arcade Mode, online, Campaign, all of it... but greed overshadowed what they achieved. Hopefully this is a lesson learned that enough is enough when it comes to this stuff.

[Juiceid]

Lmfao! They wished everyone just ignored a major component of the game! I'm sure every developer wishes some component of their game was ignored too for a better review.

[D3athc3ll]

Well, after all the negative reviews and stupid system by EA, I wont be buying this game. I'll wait for it to join the vault games of EA Origin. I'm glad gamers united! Thank you to all my brothers and sisters from another mother!

[Hedstrom]

If they dont want a part of the game to have an impact on the reviews they shouldnt implement them. You cant pick and choose.

[Mr_Writer85]

Then you shouldn't of put one in...

If you had all the content unlocked from the start (you know like the PS2 games) then you wouldn't have people upset.

Progress systems aren't fun, they exist to sell you content already in the game.

[milohighclub]

So glad people are actually doing something. Loot boxes were a scam from the get go. Give em hell. Then give naughty dog he'll cos their loot box system is fucking atrocious and if no one says owt tlou2 will be plagues with them.

[bellome]

Then find another publisher for your games.

[Usperg]

COME ON for Christ sake, this is clearly not DICE'S fault, EA held a freaking lightsaber to their throats and demanded
"DO this,this,this and this".

EA are at the epicentre of this entire mess and going by Levelcapgaming's video released last night, it was supposedly Disney who stepped in from a CEO to CEO phone call and made EA rush out a statement halting the MT system!

DICE did an amazing job on their part and should be appreciated for it,selling their soul to be under Satan's wing back in 2006 should not be though ..hehe!

I just hope Disney and LucasFilm now let DICE have more options when it comes down to cosmetics, would give anything to see the Galactic Marine skin in the game like the classic Battlefront 2, HECK, I WILL EVEN PAY FOR IT!!!!!

[staticall]

DICE "Would Have Loved" If You Just Send Them Your Money

P. S.: Progression system is a huge part of gameplay, if you're going to ignore it, you're doing an awful job at reviewing the game.

[andron]

How would that be possible. The progressions system is an integral part of a mp shooter!?

Edit: Playing the beta, the first thing I thought was that this could be a great game, but the random drops made the whole progression less enjoyable. I'm not fond progression systems in mp shooters anyway, but this was the least efficient and satisfying way of doing things ever...

[Damthatsword]

...seriously? i "wouldve loved" it if reviews dont factor in garbage game design, alas, i live in the real world. apparently dice and EA need a few lessons regarding reality.

[King_Lothric]

That's for trying to usurp the gaming community and try to use our beloved star wars characters to lure us into a casino scheme.

[mike32UK]

I remember when the new head of EA took over a few years ago and every one was giving them s**t. I tried to be open and told people to give this new guy a chance to see if he can take the company in a new, less ostentatiously greedy direction. Clearly this hasn't happened, I give up. EA you can KISS MY SWINGERS

[BABY-JEDI]

I guess DICE should give up on gambling with their Christmas bonus & give gamers what they want. Cut out the loot box crap 😡

[CoryHG]

Youre going to start taking hits for this. You evolve. We evolve.

[knickstr]

I would have loved it if you guys didn't make a progression system under loot crates where you unlock things by chance. With the motivation to have people spend money to get things they want quicker.