How to End Loot Boxes Once and For All According to Developers

On a follow-up to the news piece regarding the latest interview set by Gamesindustry. Game developers talked about the rising costs of the games according to technology. Afterwards, some other developers decided to speak up and talk about how the Loot Box system can stop being implemented.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

One thing just remove them or consumers will remove themselves from the equation. See it's simple.

[Antnee534]

They won't remove them because it makes them money. Though they should be removed from all games cause it's a form of gambling and on mobile games it's targeted towards kids who don't know any better

[opinionated]

Exactly. And we can’t forget to tax violent games that targets kids and turns them into serial killers.

[Princess_Pilfer]

There is no stastical link between video games and violence.

@Opinionated
There *is* a historical precident and well understood phychological mechanisms for people getting hooked on gambling. Fundamentally different things.

[opinionated]

@princess

Loot boxes dont turn people into gambling addicts anymore than violent games turn people into killers.

Can you show me any well documented studies that show kids being turned into gambling addicts from loot boxes? No? It’s not so different then imo.

[Goldby]

@opinionated

Not only would that study be difficult to find, it is also a "new" mechanic put into gaming which means the statistics wouldn't be as accurate. But gambling on its own can be viewed to see the addictive traits form in the user. And that's how it needs to be viewed, as gambling. Not as a new mechanic in video games.

You look at any stats on gambling from a younger age and you will see the stats say that it increases the likelihood of addicted gamblers

[opinionated]

@goldby

Well there hasn’t been enough time to see what impact video games have on these serial killers. Give it some time, we can connect a dot or two somewhere down the line if we try hard enough.

Loot boxes are not a new mechanic lol. Random loot has been around for a century dude, giving another way to buy crates without earning them is not a “new mechanic”. Random loot does not equate gambling in any sense of the word. You are paying for a product. The product might not be what you want but it’s yours nonetheless. You are not gambling with your money under any legal definition. You will never get less or more money for a loot box.

Remember those gumball machines that give you random prizes for a quarter or whatever? Remember a Cracker Jack box? A pack of Pokémon cards? What’s the difference? It’s digital and “in game form”! Why would that study be any different? There is no difference dude. You would sound just as ridiculous in saying that buying crackerjacks for the prize is addictive gambling and preying on kids with suggestive advertising. You sound like the Christian Right attacking violent games with ridiculous strawmen.

You have no real reason or data to classify loot boxes as gambling or to suggest gambling is any more addictive than any other vice like fast food or video games themselves. You want to classify it because you hate loot boxes and want them down. I’m fine with that, hate all you want. I hate them too. Just don’t make up bullshit because you think it sounds good or justifiable. No disrespect.

[nitus10]

@opinionated

As for information related to child gambling due to loot-boxes how about putting the following into Google "loot boxes and child gambling". You will get about 500,000 hits although you will get more if you remove the "and".

Of course, you could use the following search "gambling addiction statistics 2017" and you will get about 4 million hits but an interesting site does explain this in more detail https://www.casino.org/gamb... Yes I know a gambling site explaining gambling addiction who whould have thought.

[TankCrossing]

Simple, but not something that's actually happening.

[shinrock]

But aren't you worried about it's replacement?

[Grap]

"Developers have retirement to save for and families to feed"
gotta feed the families lol.

[Gamist2dot0]

We know we should vote with our wallets, but what happens when the developer makes the game super hard midway into the game and pushes players to pay for random items that might ease their experience through the level, or else grind for hrs? You can't return the game because you already put hrs into it (probably trade but unnecessary). "But consumers should read reviews before they buy." What happens when the reviewers receive a "reviewer copy" of the game where the game is easier and doesn't have loot boxes?

[343_Guilty_Spark]

What examples do you have of this?

[ccgr]

As a reviewer I play the game at the same difficulty as the target audience. If we are given in-game currency we disclose that.

[yomfweeee]

He has none. More hater talk. Just making up stuff.

[Rebel_Scum]

"But consumers should read reviews before they buy." What happens when the reviewers receive a "reviewer copy" of the game where the game is easier and doesn't have loot boxes? "

It's not uncommon for online features in SP games to not be available for reviewers. That doesn't mean that MT's aren't visible to the reviewer either.

[Deathpreacher]

its all going to come down to piracy so them greedy basters soon will learn

[Rebel_Scum]

Good solution man, just put them all out of business ay. Such progressive thinking.

[DillyDilly]

Don't buy the games with Loot Boxes seems like the most logical thing to send a message

[Rebel_Scum]

That works. But if it's a SP game you can buy the game and not the loot boxes/MT's and you'd be sending the same message. They measure sales data metrics on everything.

[UletheVee31]

And that's what I did, do you see a Battlefront II review? Do you see a Shadow of War review? No? That's because I literally didn't buy into it. Even if I was provided with review copies I would've low scored it for the MTs

[Many-hat5]

Ditto. Now we just need a couple of a million others to join our ranks to save video gaming as we know it. :)

[Snez]

People are too stupid to stop buying into anti-consumer methods. The truth is that the consumer can push the line as much as the publisher.
If loot boxes became a guaranteed way to sell 0 copies of a game, publishers would stop adding them in. If after that consumers stopped buying games that had day 1 DLC outright, publishers would stop adding that. Sure they'd find ways to replace that greedy practice, but aside from that the consumer can always push back.

As for the rising costs of video games? I don't care. Stop spending your budget on mediocre celebrity voice actors, marketing and an obsessive need to have cutting edge graphics.
I don't mind if a game doesn't have the best graphics. I would much rather buy a game for a reasonable price, and it have enjoyable fluid gameplay with little to no bugs... And have all the content there available with no strings or extra pricetags attached.

At this point I'd rather just have the market crash and go back to a hobbyist activity...

[Many-hat5]

Devs don't NEED Loot boxes to make any profit, but they do WANT them to make a larger profit. The cost of making video games is not increasing at the rate developers would have us believe. The tools and architectures used today actually simplify development. It's not like they are creating games in assembly language or anything. It's simply devs choose to employ much larger teams than are required, because they can.

[Bennibop]

Loot boxes exist due to the cost of aaa production, I really don't see the problem in them as long as they do not give advantage to players online. It's difficult for developers as they support the games for a lot longer the days and that requires funds.

[yomfweeee]

Bingo.

[Liqu1d]

So why don't all AAA games have them? Why do only the wealthiest companies that spend ridiculous amounts on marketing use them?

[Princess_Pilfer]

BS. CD Projekt didn't do it. They gave away DLC for free. Warframe doesn't rely on lootboxes, and that's a free game relying *entirely* on microtransactions to survive.

That's a corperate talking point, not the truth. Notice how it's only the very richest companies with the very highest profits who are pleading poverty? W fucking B can affod to make LOTR games without microtransactions and stay profitable. They've *already* done it. They just want to get people hoooked on their gambling machanics or coerce them into paying to skip an annoying grind, and keep them spending money.

[dillydadally]

Honestly, as long as the loot boxes only have cosmetic items, I kind of like having them in the game. I never buy them and the idiots that do buy them pay for better sequels or continued developer support for me. Just look at halo 5 for example.

[raWfodog]

Yeah, I never buy items from loot boxes either but why do the people that do have to be 'idiots'? It's silly to think that people shouldn't want to spend their money on things that you wouldn't.

[Many-hat5]

Yes, but this isn't just about you! This is about gamers and gaming for all. I don't know why this should be, but I have found most of those ambivalent or in favour of loot boxes, are the same people who tend to insult others ie 'idiots', that don't agree with their view of things. Disagreeing with you doesn't make someone an idiot or make their views 'wrong'. I strongly disagree with your view, but I wouldn't presume because of this, I know what kind of person you are.

[raWfodog]

@ Many-hat5

I believe you misunderstood my post. I was referring to dillydadally calling people idiots. As in, why do they have to be called 'idiots' for buying what they want.

[nitus10]

I think the old adage of "If you give them an inch they will take a mile" applies to some publishers and if you look at Star Wars Battlefront 2 (sorry I forgot to prefix with "EA" 😐) you will see loot-boxes that can give you the player buffs and even weapon upgrades which is basically a "pay to win" mentality. Yes, you can grind but you are at a severe disadvantage against players who are lazy and have more money than sense.

Game developers/publishers know that loot-boxes are not that popular with core games but they also know that there are still many players who are borderline gambling addicts and are willing to pay for frivolous things or are just impatient and it is these people that will bring in the extra revenue.

[Stanjara]

If you can normally play the game, there is no reason to buy loot boxes.
If you tinker the gameplay and progression, then we have a reason. And that's the problem. Games with loot boxes most certainly have a reason why they are implemented and are destroying normal gameplay in games. The future looks grim.

[Many-hat5]

Exactly. Cosmetic today, compulsory tomorrow.

[zb1ftw777]

If only everybody was like me.

These things wouldn't exist.

I've never bought any. Ever.

[opinionated]

TLDR

Devs: suck it up buttercup.

[inxine]

not sure why everyone is soo furious about the lootbox thing. from what i understand, they are optional right? all them items are available in the game right? i guess we are done talking about xbox x, and moved onto the next best thing.

[opinionated]

It’s not everyone lol. Like the article says, there isn’t any hard data to suggest this outrage isn’t anything more than a few hundred people on twitter talking out of their butts.

We see it on n4g every day but 30 gaming media outlets =/= the gaming market. In fact, they are nowhere even close to being the in tune with the gaming community 99.99% of the time. I doubt most of them have any interest in gaming at all. Just failed writers that don’t want to work at McDonald’s lol.

[nitus10]

Do you have any statistical data to back up your claim?

If you do a Google search using the words "objection to loot boxes" you will get about fifty thousand hits. Now try "loot boxes and gambling" and you will get over 1.5 million hits. How about "video games and gambling" which gives you 1.95 million hits. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.

[UletheVee31]

"There isn't any hard data to suggest this outrage isn't anything more than a few hundred people."

No, but there's a clear outrage against Loot Boxes in many social media websites. These Loot Boxes are negatively affectng gaming as we know it, and the major solution is to just ignore them.

[opinionated]

Website hits aren’t statistical data. Many people “boycotted” call of duty and were found playing it the next day. 1.5 million people read loot box and gambling articles? That’s no surprise, 1.5 million articles about it are on n4g everyday. Do you have any hard data to prove that lootboxes have a negative impact on sales? No? If you want to believe that 1.5 million people are boycotting lootboxes because of website hits then that’s your business. Draw your own conclusions.

[opinionated]

@ulethevee

Negatively affecting gaming how? You can’t throw out pay to win theories without legitimate examples. The shadow of war claim is bogus. The loot is plentiful and if you are too lazy to take control of captains then that’s your problem.

Yes ignore it lol. I do. What other solution is there? Let’s say that all 50k that nitus mentioned in his google search for “objection to loot boxes” actually feel the same way he does and actually boycotted the game.

That 50k adds up to about a 3 million dollar loss. Do you know what it would take to make up that loss? 150k people spending 20 bucks on loot boxes. On a game with 4-8 million sales 50k is nothing, you haven’t even dented the surface.

Let’s go ahead and give him the whole “google search of useless statistics” benefit of the doubt. 1.5 million people effectively boycott a game that usually sells 8 million copies at launch. That’s a 90 million dollar loss. Huge right? It would take 4.5 million to spend 20 dollars on lootboxes. That’s tougher but still doable and you are not hurting them in any serious way.

There is no reason to believe 1.5 million people would ever not buy a game because of lootboxes though. That’s retarded shit pulled out of thin air. Which is what the devs in this article are saying.

[Many-hat5]

As per my reply to raWofdog. Please show some respect for your fellow gamers.

[chuckyj1]

I like how everyone is so concerned with kids... yet loot boxes are also in adult games that don't target children as well... you know what else is a loot box that targets children... those Minecraft, Marvel, DC little box toys you can't see what figure you are going to get and those target children in just about every store on the shelf eye-level with a child's average height... where is the outrage?

[nitus10]

"Think of the Children!" is a great catch phrase and used by pretty much everyone with an agenda to sell.

I do agree with you but we live in societies that have pretty much the same moral core values (these are outside of any religion although they do have a tendency to take credit) but it is very easy for unscrupulous people to take advantage of the more so-called minor values. The problem society has is where to draw the line when the line can be a moving target.

Nonsecular unbiased Education is by far the best solution but you also have to be aware that unscrupulous people will try to subvert that to their advantage whether it be religious or otherwise. At least most game players do have the option of voting with their wallets but unfortunately, there are players who are either partially or fully addicted to gambling and developers/publishers know this.

[UletheVee31]

As a journalist, I have to tell you that it's my job to think of EVERYONE (Not just the kids). This includes people who might be heavily affected by the microtransactions like adults with severe gambling habits. And believe me when I say that there is outrage, it's just unheard of because there are so many other issues that have bigger outrage as well.

[Many-hat5]

Indeed.