A Letter to the Forza Community From Turn 10 Regarding VIP in Forza

Turn 10 Writes: Since Forza Motorsport 7 launched into early access last week, everyone here at Turn 10 has been keeping a close eye on our players’ feedback. The most important thing to us is to maintain open communication with the Forza Community. We’ve heard what you have had to say and, starting today, you can expect some significant changes.

[UCForce]

Good to hear the community against this BS ! Next up, Shadow of War MT. But still. I wish the publishers just get rid of microtransaction in AAA games. You already paid 60$ of the game and that's enough. The microtransaction is only work in F2P.

[Obscure_Observer]

I hope Naughty Dog takes some notes too.

[UCForce]

Of course, they will, but it has to be publishers that one push MT.

[Obscure_Observer]

Yeah. Microsoft MT practices is getting a bit out of hand. Sony don´t enforce MT in their exclusives. Only Naughty Dog do it.

[dcbronco]

Naughty Dog? Which one of their games has microtransactions? Odd, I hadn't heard any complaining. I wonder why?

[Kribwalker]

@dcbronco
both the uncharted series and the last of us have microtransactions

[UCForce]

@dcbronco Well, The Last of Us MP microtransaction was very controversial. A lot of people angry about it including myself. In Paris Game Week 2015, Uncharted 4 MP was going to have MT which make a lot of people angry about it including myself. I still hate UC 4 MP microtransaction and I know a lot of people will disagree with me about this. But it was less controversial and less shady than TLOU MP microtransaction. Yes, you still have to get a weapon and costume in treasure chest, but here the thing, you get those stuff even faster just in days, not a week and not even a months. Those daily challenges give you about 350 to 500 or even higher. And here another thing, there is no duplication and variations in UC 4 MP. Don' get me wrong, I completely hate microtransaction in every games. But ND did learnt mistakes from The Last of Us MP by reducing it down significantly in UC 4 MP, so I maybe hope they will remove microtransaction completely in TLOU Part 2 MP.

[Razzer]

Wait.....can’t you earn all the MT bonuses in UC4 through gameplay? Can you do that with Forza7?

[ShottyatLaw]

@Razzer

Yes, you can earn everything through playing in both Forza and UC, but thats not the point. These are major 1st Party AAA games with paid DLC and MTs.

[UNCHARTED2FANATIC]

Yeah people need to also know Naughty dog had some bad microtransactions which were the guns in the last of us and in uc4. Core items like guns should never be behind a paywall. And they purposely make it EXTREMELY tedious and slow to unlock it in game

[Knushwood Butt]

None of the UC4 guns are behind a paywall.

They are all 3000 relics, which can be earned pretty quickly if actually, you know, play rhe game.

Furthermore, a lot of the additional guns are garbage / superfluous anyway.

[Silly gameAr]

Bu bu bu Naughty Dog does it too! GRRRRR.

[-Foxtrot]

The problem is if reviewers don't call this shit out in the reviews then studios probably won't give a shit

Forza has done really well...god knows how considering the separate articles after calling the game out.

Shadow of War seems to be doing fine as well with none of the reviews so far saying anything about the MT

It's a bit of a joke tbh

[slate91]

Create your own website and start publishing your own reviews. You clearly have all the gaming knowledge in the world. Why criticize another person's opinion?

[Gwiz]

Dude (I assume) they will never call them out on it..

[-Foxtrot]

@slate91

Difference is mate is I won't be paid a shit load doing what I love...these guys do and they abuse their power

[2600Thunder]

Agreed. IGN's Peer Schneider told Kinda Funny that IGN was unsustainable being financed on user subscription model - until ads came. Sponsored, ad financed sites are always going to show favor to those companies providing their advertising money. It would be antithetical for a company to continue to pay for ads, when their products are not represented favorably since marketing itself is the effort towards creating a positive perception of a product. Disclosures are also not required when accounting books show the shift in money is solely for advertising and not favorable reviews.

Costs are out of control as it is.

Movies cost just as much if not more to create than a AAA title:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

Here are the game costs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

Movie producers and investors don't cry to the public about skyrocketing prices that they must force on their customers. We dont pay the producers for their effort. We pay for a result, just like our bosses pay us. High quality Star Wars movies sold in chopped pieces but pitched as being oh so expensive to make would be shunned.

So, $60 has been far more than enough to pay for a full fledged AAA title for decades and it will continue to be more than enough. If movies can rake in billions and the video game industry is known to be bigger, then there is no reason at all to charge more.

All that's changed is the publishers saw mobile games like Angry Birds racking in billions from microtransactions and are trying to inject this newly discovered revenue stream into AAA experiences. Some publishers are also trying to bring the Netflix subscription model as well.

It's because of consumers standing up to this kind of garbage that we are not already getting NBA 2k18 like microtransactions in every experience. The world is not free of avarice practices and companies do not want to give us puppies and ice cream.

Growth must happen in any industry to mature but it must be done through innovation not monetization. The video game industry is already bigger than the movie industry so enough is enough.

[darthv72]

Maybe, just maybe those who played and reviewed the games were able to obtain their in game goodies through playing and not through purchasing.

It is my understanding that anything that can be bought via MT can also be earned / unlocked through continuous playing. Or is that not the case with this game???

[UltraNova]

"Shadow of War seems to be doing fine as well with none of the reviews so far saying anything about the MT "

What did you expect, especially from big name review sites? They get advertising deals left and right from the very same publishers. It one thing to point out a flaw in ganeplay and anothet to expose shady practices like F7's microtr...yeah it's become a joke.

[boing1]

Gamespot review says something about MT in Shadow of War.

[fiveby9]

Review sites are not going to call out a major title for a platform like MS or Sony. These sites know not to get on their bad side. It is a certainty that these major sites feel pressure from their management not to publish overly critical reviews. Generally, a minimum of 7 or 8 is required. Review sites are often an extension of the marketing department now. Not sure these review sites have much credibility anymore.

[yeahokwhatever]

The main change in Forza 7 wasn't the removal of the MTs, it was the changing back how the VIP system works in regards to race bonuses to how it was in F6. Nothing more.

[badz149]

Turn10 won't listen. as soon as reviews from big sites and the usuals have settled down, they will flip the switch to allow the use of real money for credits

[fiveby9]

That's is exactly it. A consumer already paid retail price for a game only to have content gimped so you can pay more via MT system. Never pre-order such games and don't necessarily base your decision solely on a review site like Gamespot, IGN, etc. MT systems in games are not a good thing. To make matter's worse, systems now are basically gambling. You pay real money for a chance to get something not buying for an actual piece of content.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Good stand up and fight MTs in 60 dollar games are BS these into F2p.

[Gazondaily]

Good on fans for making their voices heard instead of making excuses on behalf of their favourite corporation and defending moves that aren't in the interests of gamers. We have seen quite a few examples of that recently.

T10 better make sure they scrap the lootbox system altogether in their next outing. The MT aspect appears to be the sole thing dragging down another seemingly brilliant racer in the series and possibly best racer this year.

[Ristul]

This is a win for Forza fans, Im happy for you guys even if Im a Sony/Nintendo/PC player. We should unite against bad practices as fellow gamers.

[Razzer]

Agreed. Glad MS listened to the actual Forza fans who complained and not the die-hard Xbox fans who defend every single thing Microsoft does.

[aconnellan]

I mean, I completely agree, but I didn't see anybody defending this.

Nobody I saw on this site, /r/XboxOne and even r/Forza was defending this

[gangsta_red]

Yea, I didn't see die-hards defending this either. It was pretty universally frowned on from what i saw.

[Razzer]

There were a few.

http://n4g.com/news/2108206...

[fiveby9]

Agree with you @Septic. Otherwise very good games are being polluted by MT systems.

[MastaMold]

Very good response from Turn 10.

[WePlayDirty]

Yes. A response after they tried to screw over gamers. I would expect as much.

[Rock31]

Sony would not even respond ...

[UltraNova]

@above

Why would Sony respond and not the studio who, you know, made the game?

Take off your fanboy glasses and stop getting off topic, nobody mentioned Sony until you and your agenda came along.

OT: I'm glad peoples voices were heard and that Turn 10 made, uhh, a turn for their customers best interest.

That's what needs to be done each and every time any and I mean any company/dev that dares to take us for fools.

[nowitzki2004]

@Rock31

Ok lets say Sony wouldnt respond.. Still, leave it to MS to screw gamers over, or keep trying at least. They have been doing it this gen since the reveal, bend over buddy.

[goken]

really? ms have been trying to screw around, get caught, then u turn so many times.
it is clear that they wanna try to get away with bs, testing consumer tolerance, like a naughty kid trying to see what he/she can get away with.
given the chance.. it would be pc OS (Windows) all over again. must never let this happen!

[Cyro]

I mean you shouldn't give them too much praise but a lot of other devs wouldn't do shit because people are still buying it. Vote with your money not just words.

[yeahokwhatever]

I think they handled it superbly. People were upset about how they changed the VIP system in F7, so they made the change within the first week of the game's release. You can't ask for more than that.

[Derceto]

Translation: "Damn, you're not "quite" stupid enough to take this approach huh? Alright, we'll backpedal, and try a different approach to ease you in a little slower. See you again soon!"

[gamingisnotacrime]

At least from my experience at where i work place, management is always under tremendous pressure to maximize profits

[WePlayDirty]

ItsAGundam?

[zombiewombie]

I think if people want MTs to disappear, reviewers need to start bring them up as negative points when they review games with MTs. That would get the ball rolling for sure.

[Eonjay]

Exactly, they are supposed to be informing us about a project, not protecting Microsoft and Turn ten (or Sony or EA or anyone else for that matter). They need to put consumers first because right now, they are an unreliable source for information.

[Cyro]

I hope so.

Good on Turn 10 to make the change but I'm sure a lot of other devs wouldn't bother changing crap because it will still sell well.

[AizenSosuke]

Agreed

[timotim]

Last night Turn10 gifted in 1 million CR and 5 FE cars 😍 I'm already making good money from my designs and decals, but ill take that any day of the week.

[Eonjay]

Don't you ever worry that you are harming the Xbox brand by pandering to them? I mean in this case the game should be better for the community because they spoke up. I saw your comments yesterday and you were absolutely dismissive of the community. When you do that, you give the company the false impression that people are okay with that. Do you know why they are making changes? Its because the games sales are in the toilet. Fortunately, they is a crowd out there that actually wants a quality product. Forza will survive in spite of people like you. You only got that free stuff because other out there had a spine. Your welcome.

[timotim]

Harming the Xbox brand? For starters, I personally think those that do not own this game is confused on exactly what this news is. Many people like you (mostly PS fans that are here to give there opinion on a game they have no intention of buying anyway) seem to think this letter by Turn10 is about MTs, when in actuality this news is about VIP members and what it entails vs years past...that's all.

There are two issues that caused the community to question Turn10 with FM7...one is MTs and the other is VIP. You said you saw me in another thread "pandering", yet that thread and this thread are two totally different topics. In the other thread, I got into a discussion with a PS fanboy who has no desire to buy the game, over its use of MTs. There, he tried to tell those who actually has the game that Turn10 placed cars behind MT paywalls. He suggested that the only way to obtain these cars was by spending additional money. My argument to him was that there use of MTs were totally optional. That every car in the game was obtainable through the in-game currency system. Until someone proves otherwise, I will continue to argue against MTs being forced on gamers, but my argument was simply that Turn10 has not done so in this case. The only thing I dismissed was that they were forced and somehow bad, simply because they were in the game. If that's the case then Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us are both bad games as well...I'm not willing to call them that, and something tells me you aren't either.

I will reiterate. This topic here is NOT about MTs at all, but what it means to be a Forza VIP member ONLY. Again, these are two different things, two different aspects of the game. Now, coming from someone who has bought all Forza games with VIP included...I do care about what it means...if I didn't, I would simply by the standard version of all Forza titles...I don't. I know how much of a value VIP is, which is why I buy Ultimate everytime. My post above speaks to how happy I am that Turn10 is going back to past VIPs and giving us double the CR per race. This is a win for the community that I am happy about as a VIP member. I though the million in CR and 5 FE cars was a great gesture on there part. And I look forward to VIP gifts in the future.

[WePlayDirty]

MT’s are OK when implemented in a way that is not anti-consumer. Turn 10’s implementation of MT’s in Forza 7 were really bad, and the negative reviews and criticism’s are warranted. They essentially made it so buying the boxes is easier/less of a hassle than just simply earning them through gameplay( which is how it should be). They also changed the VIP mode for the loyal fans who spent the extra money, essentially giving them the finger. This practice of making game mechanincs and legitimate content put behind loot boxes needs to stop.

[Cyro]

no MT's are not ok at all in any sort of form.

[Rachel_Alucard]

This is so ironic because micro-transactions were designed to be anti-consumer since inception. You know all those freenium games on the mobile market, with energy limits, daily rolls, tedious grinding, RNG boxes, and paid currency? All that stuff was implemented into the AAA scene and its slowly getting people to think like, "Well some of this stuff is ok as long as..." which is exactly how they want you to think. Because they slowly turn a dial on how hard they push it until you are contempt with their worst tactics.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Why has this become so common in gaming though. I think that's the real concern. Too many times we have devs/publishers whoever, testing the waters, and only when we speak up against clearly bad decisions that ultimately will affect their bottom line, they decide to have another look. I'm starting to feel like we need a players union like in sports, just to have a persistent voice for these practices.

[gamingisnotacrime]

That is a great fix. Now I want to get the game with the VIP pass. This was the issue that kept me away from buying the game.

[2600Thunder]

A sales pitch to the Forza Community.

[Destiny1080]

One Hundred and Eighty

[XStation4pio_Pro]

Great to hear. Changing the VIP system from 6 was one of my few complaints (also the career progression is a bit gratuitous) with an otherwise fantastic title.

[Black0ut]

Good. Thank you for listening to us - I know many gaming devs keep on ignoring the outrage so this is a healthy step.

[crazychris4124]

Yea I'm still not gonna buy it. Only pulled a 180 because of backlash and people getting refunds of $100 versions of the game.

[freshslicepizza]

What's the point of complaing then if you never wanted it?

[crazychris4124]

Fan of the series that hates to see the publisher trying to squeeze every last drop of cash out of us. I'm not looking forward to seeing how they implement microtransactions into Horizon 4 and how it hurt the game. Horizon series is easily one of the top arcade racers in recent years and I don't want to see the game harmed just to make a quick buck.

[freshslicepizza]

@crazychris4124
"Fan of the series that hates to see the publisher trying to squeeze every last drop of cash out of us. I'm not looking forward to seeing how they implement microtransactions into Horizon 4 and how it hurt the game. Horizon series is easily one of the top arcade racers in recent years and I don't want to see the game harmed just to make a quick buck."

People spoke, they listened but I guess some can't move on. Well then have fun with your moral high ground, while not having fun.

[Father__Merrin]

How well has this donee so far in sales?

[Pancit_Canton]

Turn 10 made a wrong turn. lol

=====> $$$Microsoft Bank$$$
<===== Angry fans

[bolimekurac]

turn 10 is fixing things

[AKR]

Good to see the team own up to their actions. Not only are they reverting to the old system, but they even threw in a few extra perks!

Good on you, Team 10. Really loving the game so far.

[Sm00thNinja]

Glad to see the community ignited change.

[Tazzy]

I think they decided to write a letter because if they didn't it might get people to not want an Xbox One X I'm actually shocked they don't have a Forza 7 Xbox One S bundle people would pick that up over the Assassins Creed bundle.

[spaceb0y]

loot boxes will stay in the industry