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Microsoft's pockets not so deep for the Xbox 360 division

One of the silliest arguments fanboys like to make is that Microsoft has a vast reserve of unlimited resources, all of which can be thrown at the Xbox division. Just like any other business, Microsoft is in the console market to make money and not to fuel useless fanboy fancies.

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chaosatom4685d ago (Edited 4685d ago )

--FFX13
--Mass Effect
--rockband (timed)
---other 2-3 RPG (timed except one)
--GTAiv, fallout DlC
--Also the price-cut, made their losses even bigger.
-- Huge, Huge marketing campaigns.
--And ofcourse! The RROD repair shop.

I think Sony is waiting for the Right Time, and I think that time is right around the corner. By 2009, Sony will lead gaming amoung consumers and developers.

Edit: OH NO! how could i forget Tomb raider underworld DLC!

kittoo4685d ago

Tomb raider Underworld DLC

alexM4685d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

MS will go the way of Ford/GM/Lehmann

SONY is 2x as big as MS in total assets

Genesis54685d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Sooner or later they are going to have to stop writing cheques to third party developers. This isn't going to work the way they are trying to grab market share by buying it. They are not going to get back the 50 mil they spent on DLC for GTA IV and how much did they spend on TR. I know they didn't get it for free because SCI has been on deaths door for the last year.

Variable4684d ago

And Unreal Tournament 3..

Not to be a fanboy or something, but there are a lot of ex-PS3-exclusives coming out for 360 now. Can't say the same for 360-exclusives (Gears PS3, WHERE ARE YOU :'( )

;)

Thoas4684d ago

Something had to be happening at M$ for them to be selling all there first party game studios, I dont see Sony doing that.

pwnsause4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

because of all these things they are paying for, now they are paying the price, killing off all their first party studios closing down.

Bubble Buddy4684d ago

"Not to be a fanboy or something, but there are a lot of ex-PS3-exclusives coming out for 360 now. Can't say the same for 360-exclusives (Gears PS3, WHERE ARE YOU :'( )

;) "

Sony believes in First-party exclusive for the near future and in my opinion I think they are right. Games are just to make now if they're horrible games. They have to put it in more platforms to get more money.

Sofa King Retarded4684d ago

I knew it would begin. Sony fans are already saying "2009 is teh year!"

what happened to 2008???????????????????

juuken4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Yep.

Microsoft is not made out of a mountain of cash. There will come a time when that cash runs out and the money tree backfires.

jaysquared: Stop denying it. You knew this was going to happen sooner or later. The PS3 is becoming the lead platform for multiplatform titles, developers are starting to turn heads...did you really think Sony was going to stay in 3rd place?

jaysquared4684d ago

Get use to it... Sony fans are always procralaiming when the PS3 will take the lead!

beoulve4684d ago

this year?? gaining momentum over XBOX 360

mikeslemonade4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

This article is very important to show the xbox zealots the state of their company. Here is the difference the Microsoft cooporation is at a very good situation whereas Microsoft Game Studios is not so good as the company has not turned a profit. MGS has made profitable quarters but they are still in debt. Sony Computer Entertainment has PSP and PS2 that make money. Microsoft can easily shutdown MGS if they see fit as the division has not made money since it came out in 2001.

DRUDOG4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

I guess the jokes on both of you since Tuttle isn't a Sony fanboy. I'm assuming that he was being sarcastic, but I wouldn't be so bold as to put words into his mouth.

Back to the point, I just don't understand how a company can basically sell off all of their "content" and we shouldn't think that there isn't something afoot. I would be surprised, more like shocked, if there wasn't another Xbox, but at the rate MS is going I'm not so sure it's going to happen.

They will always have some development because of the NA install base and "ease of coding" with it's similarity to PCs, but they are not setting themselves up for any sort of software success in the future on the 360 or a future console. Where do the new, exclusive IPs come from? Devs cannot ignore the PS3 any longer (I'm looking squarely at you Valve) since Pubs like EA already claim that they make more money off Sony's machine. The economy is definitely playing a part, but how much?

MS needs to get their house in order, because as much I dislike their business tactics, I do understand that gaming needs the competition that they provide Sony and Nintendo. It only benefits us gamers in the end...

GameDev4684d ago

and I'll say it again, M$ is DONE in the console business. They can't sustain the kind of losses they have. The 1 billion set aside runs out next month and then all their RROD chickens will come home to roost.
Like the other poster said. You don't sell off 90% of your development pool if you are planning to stick around. 360 fanboys are WAY TOO BLIND with hate for sony to see the writing on the wall. Some of us wont be surprised one bit when M$ throws in the towel, for others it will be a very black day filled with lamentation and cussin to high heaven at Sony and it's PS3 owners.

oh well, thats the way the RROD crumbles.

thewhoopimen4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Makes you wonder how MS is going to make any money this console season selling in the red again. Price drop, a jasper redesign, lowering live price, all going to cost even more money and less profit.

@previous posters.. I agree. First party titles are going to win the war.
Also as EA aptly noted, PS3 owners are profitable b/c the users generally can afford more. More likely to have a HD TV, more likely to have a surround sound system, more likely to own bluray discs.

Just like people who own D&G sunglasses, drive porsche(s), etc.

SuperM4684d ago

Actually what bothers me is the xbox live subscription fee... Thats where MS is actually making money. People willingly pay 50$ (more in europe) to MS every year which goes straight to their pocket... And what do they use it for? Buy DLC exclusivity which they would probably get anyway but they pay so that it wont come to ps3. So when you pay your live subscription you basically pay for that certain things will not apear on ps3... what a waste. The only usefull thing for the consumer that MS has spent money on is FF13 because they wouldnt have gotten the game otherwise.

I dont see MS ever dropping xbox live subscription though... It may make the console a little more desireable, but subscription fees are such a smart way of getting money out of people... They feel that they pay so little every month that it doesnt really matter. And before they know it they have payed way and i mean way more money for the console then its actually worth. Luckily PC gamers were smart enough to protest. And as you can see, pc gamers get it for free. But its to late for console gamers, there are just way to many people who subscribe to xbox live that MS will never be willing to cut the price. I just pray that xbox doesnt do to good this gen, because if they get 30 million ++ subscribers then thats going to be a goldmine for them, money which they can use on either screwing the competition over, or spend it on their selves and their internal development. I have a feeling they are going to keep using money to mess up for the competition rather then using it to actually develop games which would be good for the industry.

DARKKNIGHT4684d ago

i agree with you 100 percent. by me agreeing with you, this means that youre 95 % right.

Ive called several occurrences this gen WAYYYY before they happened. Thee rrod, the elite, the under the table m$ checkbook thing, viral campaigning.....even the mart, pog and firstknight.

Technically, the way i see it. ms tried to have superior hardware when it first came out.....they failed to make a big splash. now on the 360 theyre aiming to become greater than playstation by BUYING ips and timed rights. Basically focusing on software....YET Money only goes so far. Devs will take the bait, but the real treasures belie within the gamers that have stayed on playstations for 3 generations. the ones with the expensive setups, the ones that go out and get the blurays to view at 1080p, the gamers..... Look at vista, look at the zune. A company worth billions of dollars put out those s#itty products. A company worth billions of dollars force fed the public an illusion that the rrod never occurred.......until it was on every major site. M$ got caught RED handed AGAIN.

AAACE54684d ago

@Chaosatom... You do realize you sound like a little kid defending your favorite superhero right?

Show some maturity!

Rooster154684d ago

I've seen several posts from u man, and you always talk about "hate for sony", what about your hate for Microsoft. According to several sources: IGN, EGM, G4TechTV, I've heard that 360 sells are up and raising, that they sold more 360 consoles then ps3 consoles in North America AND Japan in the last quarter. Sony still sells thier console at a loss compared to microsoft making a steady profit (directly from the console).

I manage a gaming store so I can confirm that my profit on the ps3 is only .49¢ compared to the 19.98$ I make on a 360. If MS was losing money on the console I wouldn't be making 20$ profit off it. I'm lucking Sony lets me make .49$ on its console. I have to sell something else with it for it to be profitable. Sony is betting on bluray (why do think the ps3 came with SpiderMan 3 (bluray) last year) because thats what sells the system. and thats where they make thier profit, right now sony sees the ps3 as an investment, not a cash horse. why?...because they have the movie industry under its claws.

Open my eyes man and give me your sources...
I have both consoles and I always give an honest nonbiased opinon.

Tarasque4684d ago

You know it is sad when people are worrying about how much money MS has. How about stay out of the forums and go create some more kiddie levels for LBP.

potenquatro4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

ford,gm,lehman????

Ford and GM have shrunk business in NA but actually grown worlwide especially in China and India. Lehman got lost in the biggest financial debacle in NA's history. How the hell can u compare those with MS???? And the the trolling fantards agree?? LOLOL. isn't this the year of the ps3? stop trollin and go play ps3 then. Who cares what MS makes? Gamers just want the games. In fact who cares if Lehman Bros. went bankrupt? As long as there is a bailout nobody can take away your loan.

@ above ^^: sad indeed. They're not intrested in gaming. They're intrested in one company beating another. Strange attitud when you consider that gaming was intended to take your mind off stupid mundane sh!t like "wich heartless corporation makes more money".

FrankenLife4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

I have bought more games for my ps3 this year, and that will continue through next year. I am just a lot more exited my the coming ps3 games. Sure Gears looks great, and I will be getting it. I just don't think that there is much more than that right now. I may get Fallout 3 for the 360. But I am scared that my 360 will crap out on me. It is a launch system with no faults so far, but the warranty is about up, and I am occasionally getting the dirty disk error screen. I am afraid.

Uhhh you know that Ford had to sell jaguar and Landrover at a loss....

potenquatro4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Well aside from valve games, I havn't played alot of pc cause alot of the games it's getting i've already played on 360. I'm playing new 360 games, so, I don't get your "there's not much more then gears2 right now". I'm also playing more ps3 also if it makes you feel better :)
To each his own.

Uhhh Ford sold Jaguar at a loss cause Jaguar isn't selling. They might have to do that with Aston Martin too. But FORD CARS are actually selling more globally specially in China and India, but they're even growing in Brazil, with their sugar fueld engines and South America. In fact FORD is even trying to expand LINCOLN CARS in to China and Russia. I'm not a car freak or anything like that. I read the news paper. You should try it. What part of the U.S.A. having a "shrinking economy" don't you get? Just cause they're failing in NA doesn't mean they're bankrupt. GM and Ford are 2nd and 3rd respectively. Do you have any idea how many car makers are out there?

EDIT: The best FORD and GM cars you could ever buy(aside from mustang, corvette) are actually sold outside NA.

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alexM4684d ago

due to price drop in shares

FORD /GM/LehMANN gone

MS is next

FBI4684d ago

Your other personality,PP,was banned for being a racist.

You are now under the watchful eye of the FBI

TheMART4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

FBI, figure out this one:

alexM = Nasim

Also having names as:

Tanod/Shmee/Lenhart/Zbimbo

And more and more. Most funny thing is, you can tell its Nasim by his way of writing and even better... The dumb ars keeps PM'ing me with his new account always when one of my posts pissed him off again hahaha

FBI4684d ago Show
Montrealien4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

AlexM! where have you been?! it has been a while...

*cough* NAsim *cough*

I have a question for you, since you seem so versed in the wonderful world of business. How much money has Sony lost with the PlayStation 3 in the past 5 years? And also, how much have they made with the PS2?

Killjoy30004684d ago

And Mart, figure this out.

GiantEnemyCrab = The Mart
power_of_Green = The Mart
GiantEnemyLobster = The Mart
Siligon = The Mart
Omega24 = The Mart

4684d ago
Pain4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

are sick of the Xbox cash sink. so this isnt new.

Sofa King Retard Xbox fan reported as Offensive.

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Omega44684d ago

Well at least they make money with every console they sell, unlike some companies >_>

alexM4684d ago

atleast 50$ i guess

but MS isnt making any money now after 200$ arcade .
they sold their studios to make up for losses

MS lost 4B from x360 with 3B coming just from RROD

SONY will make money from HW and SW this Fall

MS only hope is Gears 2

However all of LBP/MS2 and R2 will sell 5m each

name4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Really now? Is that your final answer?

meepmoopmeep4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

did you forget Xbox 1?

they're barely making $ from the 360 right now and it took them almost 2.5 yrs. to break even.

UltimateIdiot9114684d ago

No, you're thinking of nintendo.

Breakfast4684d ago

xbox ONE
psTHREE

One brands reaching new heights, while the other one whithers away.

Dear, playstation fans.

Youre LOSING to a console with a 30% failure rate, low class games, and an abundance of hidden costs.

That says ALOT.

Love,

:)

Bubble Buddy4684d ago

Breakfast: PS3 was outselling 360 every month this year until the price drop. Now a 20GB 260 cost less than a Wii and PS2 is Almost that much. What does that tell you about the 360? If they were "winning", why drop the price down? Holiday season is coming, all consoles will be sold out. 360 and PS3 aren't gaining any money with each console sold. Wii and PS2 is profitable for Sony. 30% Failure rate because some people still love their 360 even if it breaks 10 times. >.>. Low class games? I loved the games 360 has to offer until about this year where only Gears 2 and Fable 2 is standing ground. Even if you say 360 is "winning" you have to admit PS3 is gaining steam.

Breakfast4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Im not saying the xbox is winning.
Im saying the PS3 is LOSING.

Sure Ill admit it.
The PS3 is gaining steam.
You got nowhere to go but up, when your in the dirt. lol.

Now you gotta admit this for me.
Playstation has lost all its steam, to the xbox division.

:)

prunchess4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Funny how it's mainly the US, Australia and UK market that are buying "a console with a 30% failure rate, low class games, and an abundance of hidden costs"

The rest of the planet seems to buy Sony....

beoulve4684d ago

not yet,prunchess , not yet..
The rest of the world is buying Wii/DS for now.
PS3 will be later.

juuken4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

...No.

I am sorry.

This is not 2007. Sony is starting to make a profit with the PS3 and things are only going to get better going into next year. Hopefully the economy manages to stay together by then.

darkpower: Obama has my vote.

JD_Shadow4684d ago

Yeah....that is why we all should vote for Obama.

And that's why I think we'll FINALLY see a black man as the president. It'll be an incredible site to see that an ACTUAL issue in the country can trump racism.

But I use your point to digress. Please continue.

badz1494684d ago

if you started selling a full year ahead of your competitors and even over a year ahead in some places! but 'business 101' tells me that there's no need to cut prices if the demand is there and especially if you're winning! that seems like not the case with 360 currently and somehow they've managed to regain their sales after the price cut, (why not, it's already cheaper than Wii!) and currently going strong towards the holiday season! at least in NA, I can see that the 360 will 2nd the Wii again this holiday season! I've to admit that the $200 price gap is quite stiff to compete! but it's going to be an interesting holiday with lots and lots of great games coming out!

GameDev4684d ago

but Obama will be more of the same, he pals around with all the same skunks that have screwed us over for years. Ron Paul is the only man who deserves anyones vote.

RememberThe3574684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Stop trying to piss people off...

EDIT: Obama '08

UltimateIdiot9114684d ago

I agree with Obama being more of the same but I personally would have put my vote for Hillary. If Bill Clinton did a good job and behind every great man is a woman. Then Hillary, shouldn't be that bad, after all, NY didn't get screw after she became senator.
So far, all I've notice is Obama is a good bser, and Mccain knows his stuff but doesn't have the best policy in the world.

MRMagoo1234684d ago

There are alot of aussies that bought ps3s too you know i bought one at the midnight launch only the dumb ones bought a 360 and also the ones that couldnt wait till the ps3 came out.Im glad i waited cos it was well worth it.Ps3 is gonna beat 360 and when it does i shall rub it in all the 360 fanboys that said itll never happen (POG,Firstknight and the rest of those nutcases)

Cenobia4684d ago

"Youre LOSING to a console with a 30% failure rate, low class games, and an abundance of hidden costs."

Wow...just wow. I can't believe you are willing to admit all of that and are still on your knees sucking Microsoft's genitals. You are the definition of a fanboy.

You're a tool, and you know it. Keep sucking though. I'm sure Microsoft will fill you with that "satisfaction" you need eventually.

Moron.

MiloGarret4684d ago

Stop insulting people, I see you fücking everywhere trying to appear clever, but clearly you're just some insecure dude behaving like a badass online because your real life is too sad.

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BIoodmask4684d ago

I recommend you do a little research before making claims out of thin air. The Xbox division has been profitable for over a year. As the years go buy the hardware is costing less for Microsoft to make. That is the natural cycle for any console.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008...

Sony is the one who has already lost over 3 billion dollars on the PS3. They are bleeding money. Don't expect a price cut anytime soon.

http://kotaku.com/5018899/s...

Nelson M4684d ago

Has come out of the Forums to say somthing
Must be really important
Pity i cant be bothered to read it

meepmoopmeep4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

they're not making boatloads of $ on the 360 hardware sales.
this is an accumulation of hardware, software, and peripheral sales, + Live.

that $1B for warranties sure hurt them as well.
neither is the $50M(edit:P) the put out for GTA DLC and other business dealings we don't know about.

but like you said, it's part of the console business.
i wouldn't be citing the PS3 if you're not adding the past generations into the mix.
we're talking about the platform business, not generation exclusive.

i doubt MS made the $ back they lost on Xbox 1 yet.

Firstkn1ghT4684d ago

I was about to write that same thing. Thank God we still have some smarts on this site.

uxo224684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Thanks man for at least providing links with the comments you make. More people on this site (A LOT MORE) need to follow your example.

Sometimes I read the stuff I see on this site and say to myself "Wow, how do so many ordinary everyday Joes know so much about large corporations like Sony and Microsoft.

It's refreshing to see someone supporting their comments. What's more incredible is the number of disagrees your comment got while comments made with no links as proof got agrees.

Bubbles up!

Why o why4684d ago

birds of a feather................

beoulve4684d ago

hmm according to FirstKnight, those who agreed with him is smart.
WOW He must be some kind of genuis or rocket scientist. I envy him man.. DAMN

Jecht4684d ago

Don't use Kotaku as a source. Unless you like admitting to being a flaming Xbox fanboy who sticks to flaming Xbox fanboy sites like Kotaku.

BTW, I wonder if Microsoft has paid off the 4 billion dollar loss from the original Xbox, and the 1 billion dollar loss from extending the warranty on their defective pile of substandard technology called the Xbox 360.

juuken4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Ah, so this is the great Bloodmask?

Using kotaku as a source. Hmmm...isn't that the site that usually...you know, bash the PS3 to oblivion?

You also tend to forget that all companies lose money on new products. What makes you think that Sony will stay in the red and not make that back up?

You want Sony to drop out of the console race so badly it's not even funny. :/

thewhoopimen4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

Don't kid yourself, the xbox division may have broke even mid year, but they're back to bleeding money again. exclusive buyouts, Lowered live subscription prices, new jasper manufacturing (board redesign, new components, manufacture), and the holiday pricecut. MS is back in the red fray to try to pick up some new users. Plus I believe they've already spent well over the billion that they've allocated for RROD.

Also the source you produced on Joystick says that they made $89 mil operating profit from $614 income over a 9 month period. That very same source said they also lost $746 mill the same period a year ago. 89 - 746 = is hardly turning a profit. No I don't believe they are "recouping" their just investment yet. Probably why they closed their first party studios or spun them off.

Sony's numbers showed their psp and ps2 staunching their losses. $35 mill profit i believe it was.

karlostomy4684d ago

Often the Sonyfans just don't want to be told the truth and prefer to bury their heads deeper in the sand. The comments above bear testimony to this!

What must not be forgotten is that the ps3 and 360 are DIRECT competitors and comparable on every level, which makes the PS3 position look very poor indeed.

Here's why:

The PS3 has made over 3.3 billion in losses and cannot afford pricecuts, due to manufacturing costs.
http://www.n4g.com/industry...

Indeed, No pricedrops are forthcoming for the near future, due to the need to get out of losses and back into profits
http://www.beurs.nl/nieuws/...

Not only that, but somewhat embarrasingly the PS3 has lost MORE money than the ps2 ever made!
http://www.efluxmedia.com/n...

Conversely, the 360 has been posting profits for well over a year, which includes a previous year writeoff for the RROD problems.
http://www.gamasutra.com/ph...

juuken4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

...And yet karl forgets to mention the 900 million that evaporated when Microsoft was forced to address the RROD issues on the 360.

Once again karl, every new product loses money and in turn becomes profitable in the end. Sony has been profiting from the PS3. If they weren't, they would have dropped out already, and that would have made Microsoft the automatic winner.

Sony lost money because bluray was new technology that was implemented in the PS3. How you forgot to mention this in your smear campaign, I do not know.

karlostomy4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

I did address the RROD.
Check again, little miss can't-be-wrong

You just pwned yourself nicely.

Are you getting good at that, or what?

juuken4684d ago (Edited 4684d ago )

"Conversely, the 360 has been posting profits for well over a year, which includes a previous year writeoff for the RROD problems."

You did not mention the 900 million they lost over defective consoles clearly enough.

Once again, if Sony was continuously losing money, they would have dropped out of the console race.

http://uk.gizmodo.com/2008/...
http://www.psxextreme.com/p...

That does not sound like a company that's in trouble with a product.

Try again karl. ^__^

Oh and...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/be...

PS3 and Little Big Planet are in the top ten. Major retailer btw.

Rooster: ...Uh, what sources? It was just a huge smear campaign against the Playstation 3. -___-

Rooster154684d ago

Again I finish posting and I see tons of unconfirmed BS that people post. Where are you all getting your sources from, STOP posting BS! and do some homework.

I see that BloodMask actually reserched the information before posting it, unlike alot of users just posting whatever they wish was true like it was FACT.

If your gonna post numbers, statistiques, or industry news give us some sources...at least then your credable.

Quit makin' stuff up people!

Rofflecopter4684d ago

1) Sony may be losing money, and microsoft may have been profitable for a year now, but remember sony is a year behind this gen. give em another year, and who knows, they might catch up.

2) who cares who wins? both will return for another go at the console war, both will be more fun than they are now, and the smart people out there will buy both systems.

Ive been enjoying the exclusives of both for some time now, and i love both the 360 and the ps3. i dont understand why some people are so against another console. THEY ARE BOTH FUN! RIDICULOUSLY FUN!
Sorry for the caps, not like its gonna get through to the idiotic fanboys anyways..

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XXXCouture4684d ago

omg... so many fanboys on this site -_-