Did Squaresoft mess up by merging with Enix?

There's been some debate as to whether or not Square-Enix is as good as either of the parent companies were. Find out why!

[PhoenixUp]

Did Enix mess up by merging with Squaresoft?

[Soulst0rmer]

I think we've already established that as soon as these two companies got together they basically ruined everything they ever created.

[indyman7777]

Except Dragon Quest which came from Enix. I think they was running scared that everyone in the west would just want 1st person shooters and Bill Gates even talked about the Japanese players wanting cerebral games and West players wanting Twitch games. Square-Enix went on a convert everything to twich while keeing the cerebral players. This formula NEVER worked. The other thing is it takes at least twice as long to make a turn based rpg with almost twice the staff, as it takes to make a action game.

You have to give the player what they WANT.

[spartan112g]

Except Tomb Raider and Nier are actually a relevant franchises now and FFXV was great if you weren't clouded by nostalgia.

[bouzebbal]

i think quality went down because the competition between Squaresoft and Enix made both their games great!

[SirBradders]

I think they are slowly becoming great again.

[NecoTehSergal]

@Spartan - Tomb Raider was always a relevant franchise...

And Square isn't to be thanked for Nier's semi-burst of popularity, that goes to Platinum and the Dev/creator - SquareEnix is just a publisher, 'Cavia' was the studio behind Nier, and since it didn't really sell at all (Meaning Square failed to publish and advertise/market the game) - it became a Cult hit and not a commercial one, Platinum Games being given it was what established Nier's series so that it can finally breathe and be alive and succeed...

[PhoenixUp]

No you'd be ignorant to actually believe that to be true.

We've had plenty of great awesome Square Enix games in its 14 years of existence

[3-4-5]

Exactly. Dragon Quest 9 is responsible for me getting into the Dragon Quest series and into console/handheld rpgs in general.

FFTA2 is one of my favorite games of all time and got me really into tactics games.

[Princess_Pilfer]

Yeah, all 2 of them. Dissedia is ok, The world end with you is really good. Basically everything else is just a re-release, wasn't actually made by them, or is garbage.

Like, you can't count Valkyrei profile because it's actually a 1995 PS game.

[PhoenixUp]

@ Princess

So you're really just going to ignore all the quality games Square Enix released just to fit a flimsy agenda huh?

[Princess_Pilfer]

There is no agenda other than "Have SE developed games stop sucking and end crappy publishing practices."

Almost everything SE develops is garbage, and a lot of what's not can be direclty attributed to the other development studio that worked on it.

[PhoenixUp]

You must have an agenda if you're really willing to overlook all the quality titles Square Enix released.

In a year where Nier: Automata & Dragon Quest XI released in the last few months, I can't take anyone like the author or people who share his/her minds set seriously

[Princess_Pilfer]

I don't like Dragon quest, and, a very important distinciton, Nier isn't developed by SE. Nier is developed by Platinum, so it's quality is 100% irrelivant to wether or not SE sucks.

[PhoenixUp]

You not liking Dragon Quest is besides the point and it doesn't change the fact it's a great game. This article is about generalizing Square Enix and saying it hasn't released a good game in its entire existence. A good game by them can't then be discarded because it's not like by you. Its mere existence is proof that your claims are BS.

Platinum also worked with Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto on Star Fox Zero and that game sucked. Square Enix's Yoko Taro worked with Platinum to make Nier: Automata a quality game. You can't really say S-E had no involvement or input in the quality of that title.

There are many other S-E games that I can list that easily prove you wrong

[Princess_Pilfer]

Platinum also working on bad games is irrelivant. SE had nothing do to with Nier being good. They didn't make it.

Uh, yeah, actually. My not liking it means, as far as I'm concerned, it's not a great game. That's kinda the point. They even do things like joint development on Bravely Second... and the result is less good than Bravely Defualt (which was only published by them.)

You say, you have all these examples, but you don't list them. Even if Dragon Quest 9 was the best thing ever, it's 8 years old so that being your example is a pretty bad sign and it rases the total of not shit SE developed games to 3. Wo freaking who.

[PhoenixUp]

When Platinum bad games it was usually under bad direction, which they didn't have when developing Nier: Automata.

As far as I'm concerned it seems like you'd just discern any quality game Square Enix to stick to a flawed agenda. If an objectively well received gets released by them, it's really irrelevant if you like it or not. You could also say you don't like Nintendo games, that doesn't mean they don't release quality games.

Recent titles such as DQH2, WoFF, FFXV, JC3, ROTR, Life is Strange, Sleeping Dogs, FFXIV: ARR, Tomb Raider '13, KH2, KH:BBS, DQVIII are just a few examples of your viewpoint being wrong.

[FallenAngel1984]

I can't take this author seriously when he/she can't even recall the quality games that Square Enix have released in their 14 years of existence.

"The next two FFs were FFXI and FFX-2, which, yes, we still can’t believe got released."

What dafuq are you even saying? FFXI released in 2002, before the merger. Plus the idea of an MMORPG game set in the Final Fantasy series was conceived by Hironobu Sakaguchi(the franchise's creator) himself. And FFXI was a quality game, so it's even more absurd to try to unnecessarily criticize it to fit an agenda.

FFX-2 was also developed and released in Japan before the merger, so idk why you're calling that out. Do you even research?

FFXII is the first mainline title that was in development after the merger, and it's in fact as the author says "pretty good." That alone further invalidates this entire articles' point. Not to mention that DQVIII was released after the merger and it's one of the best in the franchise.

And it's pretty convenient how Square Enix's purchase of Eidos never gets brought up. They've handled the Tomb Raider franchise better than Eidos did.

[Godmars290]

"And it's pretty convenient how Square Enix's purchase of Eidos never gets brought up. They've handled the Tomb Raider franchise better than Eidos did."

They also setup TR to fail via ad costs that made 4 million games sold a "disappointment" and then there's what they did to Hitman.

[FallenAngel1984]

Tomb Raider '13 ended up being the best selling game in the franchise

[_-EDMIX-_]

Agreed.

Fallen, you need to write this article! I can't stand when in comments, MANY know more then the author. SOOOO many mess ups in this article its not even funny. DQ has moved MILLIONS of units since that merger.

[squallcloud9]

Well I'm still waiting for a great rpg to come out of square enix.

[kevnb]

Dragon quest 8 is about as good as it gets.

[spartan112g]

FFXV was great if you weren't attached to those old games. I actually like where they are taking it.

[Darkwatchman]

I disagree. I have no nostalgic attachment to classic FF games because I barely played the games. Most of my exposure is to the remasters and spin offs like crisis core. In total, I have played maybe less than 7 FF games and 2 of them actually are the first 2 anniversary psp releases, but I never beat them because I was a kid and got lost and had no patience to figure out what to do or where to go.

With that out of the way, I thought FF15 was a mediocre game. It had an awful story that was not only poorly written and shoddily paced, but also incomplete with several cutscenes being added after launch which is ridiculous.

Aside from the garbage story, the game's combat was mindnumbingly dull. All you have to do is hold a single button for auto combos and occasionally press a direction of you felt like mixing it up. Dodging was holding a button for auto dodging. Partying didn't even require timing. Just hold the square button and bam, you'll parry when the attack hits. No timing required.

Add to that, the completely formulaic open world structure with copy/paste "take this photo here" and "catch these frogs for me here" in a world where The Witcher 3 exists where even the most full of quests legitimized itself with good writing and context within the game world. The most lived in and concrete open world in a video game with the most tightly knit design of any open world game to date.

I did not think FF15 was good at all. Has nothing to do with nostalgia because I have next to no attachment to the franchise, but I love rpg's, both action and turn based, and FF15 to an rpg fan felt like an insult to my experience with the genre. It felt more like "baby's first action rpg".

[cMehu]

Had nothing to do with the old games, combat, story, "missions" = go there, get that, bring here, everything was dull, and playing the sidequests did nothing for the main story. Completing them was more of a chore.
Calling a monotonous game great is overdoing it, glad you enjoyed it there's plenty of simple rpgs with no depth for you to play. :)

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

No. FFXV is complete trash there no sugarcoating it.

[terrorofdeath]

Dragon Quest XI has to be it. 90% sure it will be amazing.

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

Okay let's see: Counting New games only:
Bravely Default
Bravely Second
The World End With You
Dragon Quest VIII
Dragon Quest IX
Dragon Quest XI
Nier: Automata

basically. 3DS - PS4 - Switch if you want your JRPG from Square Enix.

[shinoff2183]

My issue with them is not releasing some games on disc in other markets, I am setsuna. Also the remake/remaster of secret of mana will probably also not receive a disc version outside of japan.

[_-EDMIX-_]

? "My issue with them is not releasing some games on disc in other markets, I am setsuna. Also the remake/remaster of secret of mana will probably also not receive a disc"

Different markets, different games.

Secret Of Mana isn't some small project, its a full remake.

[shinoff2183]

I never said secret of mana was, I was saying id like it on a physical disc to which they probably wont do.

[InKnight7s]

FFIII on psp isnt small project in the end of the day its main FF. Still, they released it on disc in japan and only digital in the rest of world. Moreover, Limited, Collector editions were mostly not available in US only in EU. All FF in psp, 3rd birthday, KH BBS, and the first two XIII trilogy all of them were just available only as standard edition in US, but in EU there was some quite different editions. After Lightning Return SE has became better as whole company.

[nitus10]

To put a game on physical media and/or make it available as a digital download is a decision a gaming company has to make.

It can be considerably cheaper to just go with digital downloading especially if the game size is relatively small and your target audience has access to the Internet. Like it or not the digital downloads are the way many games will be delivered to the average gamer in the future.

[InKnight7s]

You said it future. We aint there yet. It like saying back to 1985 throw all your VHS because in 2013 Blu-ray is the future.

[shinoff2183]

Where have you been, all these small publishers popping up offering physical releases. Truth is there are more games coming out physically then what did on ps3. Some people may have realized that digital isnt the future just yet.

[CrimsonWing69]

It's definitely not been the same company ever since they merged but they also lost of a bunch of key developers and people on staff. Also they have this crazy notion that classic game design is utter trash so instead of giving fans what they want they keep experimenting with the format and screwing it up.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I think they lost some of the talent that really made Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy (e.g. Hironobu Sakaguchi, Koji Ishitani, Isamu Kamikokuryo, Nobuo Uematsu, ect...). I'm sure there are others, but that's all I could readily remember or find. Also I'm sure Wada or who ever's idea it was, really tried hard to westernize the series along with many JRPG game producers during the last gen, and we all know how badly that went for everyone involved. I'm just glad most of them are starting to throw that mentality away and produce good JRPGs again (in SE's case, I mean WoFF, not FFXV). On top of that, the company seems to lack direction or just has poor leadership.

[AspiringProGenji]

Atlus > Square Enix

[_-EDMIX-_]

errr I like Atlus a lot, but.....not really.

Square Enix just got some juggernauts on their hands, Atlus has SMT and Persona......sooooo yea. Both great series, but they pale in comparison to Square's ridiculous library

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

Atlus has Etrian Odyssey as well as being under Sega give them access to 7th Dragon and other Sega JRPG to manage that Sega themselves give them.

[_-EDMIX-_]

@Otaku- Ok.....that still isn't anything near like what Square has with HUGE IP, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy MMO and thats just to name a few.

I like both and really like Atlus a lot, but Square has way too many huge IP to really even entertain saying Atlus is better then Square, Square basically has the damn grand daddies of JRPG line ups.

I'm sure Etrian Odyssey is a great rpg, but it clearly doesn't hold a candle to any of the top Square RPG series.

[SarcasticDuck]

aren't you over a decade late with this?

[Last_Boss]

No!! The sad part is, a lot of the old talent is gone and the new blood has to pick up from where the creators laid the foundation.

[Soy]

Yes. Next?

[spartan112g]

Nah, I like the direction Square Enix is going in. FFXV was fun, Nier Automata is awesome, and Tomb Raider is now one of my favorite franchises.

[Sirk7x]

Remake Terranigma!

[Zabatsu]

Yes.

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

nah because some of the great folks at Square Soft left before to other studios and company. More specifically Monolith Soft who are now under Nintendo.

[Edito]

We don't need to bring this again the world knows that Swaresoft was on completely different level and the merge with Enix just saved them financially but screwed them as creative developers...

[Tzuno]

It's not about that, the direction of their games is too futuristic, i miss old ways of telling a story and bring that to life trough appropriate graphics and sound, take for example final fantasy IX, i loved that world.

[yeahright2]

I was a kid at the time, and not nearly as informed or critical as I am now. All I remember is the squaresoft logo holding a lot of weight with me. If I was on the fence about which game to choose and one was a squaresoft game, I'd get it. Now it's far more a game by game basis for me.

[Fist4achin]

In short, yes, but I think they are finally making some great moves with some of their newer titles. They will be back up there again one day. What game company hasn't made crappy decisions?!

[xtheblackparade]

Well FFXII is what to me personally was the last good FF, which is made by Square Enix. So I really can't say.

[il-JumperMT]

Yes