What Happened To Final Fantasy?

Final Fantasy seems to lose fans every generation and with each new anthological entry. The Daily Dorks discuss the strange case in their newest episode of Pass The Salt.

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FallenAngel19841765d ago

"Final Fantasy seems to lose fans every generation and with each new anthological entry."

And it gains new fans as well. It wouldn't continue to be as successful as it currently is if you glossed over that basic fact.

Soulst0rmer1764d ago

I loved Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles. Random but true.

_-EDMIX-_1763d ago

That was an amazing gem!!! I really want that game remastered for the switch or for PlayStation 4.

EatCrow1763d ago

It was a good co op experience. I did wish the whole carrying crystal thing wasnt there.

alstruck1763d ago

Well, they are still making weird spin offs.. but on smartphones

Godmars2901764d ago

"Its popular because its popular."

The series has gone from being an involving tale, as best as could be done in 8 and 16 bit, to an intricately detailed setting - with the same 8/16 scale as far as story telling is concerned. Less so because graphic have overvalued story. Story has become compromised by graphics with the devs leaning evermore on series lore to compensate.

That's is what pulls in new fans, the weight of the lore. The same deal with the Star Wars prequels becoming accepted by younger generations.

FallenAngel19841764d ago

@ Soul

It's a nice game.

@ God

These franchise's variety is what attracts more fans. The diversity of the series is games bring many people into the brand. KH1 for example introduced me to Final Fantasy and FFX-2 was first game in the series.

Other people can be brought in with the spinoffs, Ivalice titles, Bravely series, Kingdom Hearts, etc.

Godmars2901763d ago

The franchise has gone from defining character classes into characters, Tifa is a monk/martial artist, Cecil the black knight who goes on a side quest in order to change class to Paladin, Vivi the black mage, to character classes being interchangeable and meaningless.

Its not FF13 or FF15 that crates new fans, its FF4 through 7.

Nu1763d ago

Square tried to westernize and failed because it ceased to have the RPG elements of old.

FallenAngel19841763d ago

@ Nu

Failed? Not even close.

- FFXIV is one of the most successful & high quality MMOs currently on the market.
- WoFF is a great title for new and old school fans alike to enjoy.
- FFXV was the fastest selling title in the franchise for a time.
- FFXII: TZA is showing amazing sales worldwide & is a quality remaster.
- FF's spinoff franchise Kingdom Hearts continues to garner success.

Final Fantasy continues to gain large success in many ways within the western market. You know what hasn't? Dragon Quest because unlike Final Fantasy, its traditionally stuck with the elements of old school RPGs. Some western consumers may like that, but it's an undisputed fact that FFs willingness to change and reinvent itself has allowed it to be the bigger franchise worldwide.

DragonKnight1763d ago

"You know what hasn't? Dragon Quest because unlike Final Fantasy, its traditionally stuck with the elements of old school RPGs."

That isn't why. Persona has been doing well whilst "stuck with the elements of old school RPGs."

DQ hasn't done well because it was never marketed well towards the western audience. It was always a niche Japanese game that you had to look for. Enix never put the attention on it that Squaresoft put on Final Fantasy, and as SE that trend continues.

Derceto1763d ago

Right. XIV's whopping ~900K subscribers make it such a beast of success.

FF XII: Watch the Game Play Itself, is another example of high "quality" from SE.

FF XV is also the fastest forgotten title in the franchise.

Get your head out of your a**.

FallenAngel19841763d ago

@ Dragon

Persona hasn't been doing as well as Final Fantasy though. And Persona doesn't stick so closely to old school concepts as Dragon Quest.

It's hard to market such a traditional series to a mainstream audience. DQ is doing better now than it has in the past(especially when it was just Enix handling it) and it still isn't as big as it could be.

@ Der

- It's been reported that FFXIV currently has one of the highest active userbases for an MMO. And it just had a superb expansion pack.

- Not really. FFXII is designed so that you can't breeze through everything with a set Gambit. Only the ignorant really believe such a ludicrous notion is true. FFXII is also a highly praised game once again.

- FFXV is not forgotten. Do you see how many updates it's gotten?

Actually get a brain before you respond. It seems like you'll randomly bash anything FF related to make a dumb point

indysurfn1763d ago

I would call going from having 35-60 penetration to 1-6 percent failing.

indysurfn1763d ago

All you people that hate on FF1-9 always mislead with lies like labbeling turn based as OLD SCHOOL!

How could the older kind of game (ACTION RPG) call the one created after it OLD SCHOOL? There are three fingers pointing back at you when you point the finger at turn based and say old school.



1987 final fantasy TURN BASED

AspiringProGenji1763d ago (Edited 1763d ago )

Dragon Quest is a bad example because it is not on the same league.

The truth is that the FF series has been in a decline since FFXIII. Square Enix is trying to hard to appeal to the west that the series is losing its roots. With all that hype and the long wait no wonder it was a fast selling game, but the game was still average at best

You know what JRPG series is consistent and gets new fans with every installment while keeping the old fans happy? Persona! Thr series keeps growing with each installment

Go Check on reddit, youtube, and any Persona 5 related forum and you will hear a number of 1st timers saying nothing but good things about it. I'm one of them! Persona 5 didn't need to lose its roots to appeal to newcomers. It did it by staying true to its roots and being a good game. It is even more awesome to see fans spreading the word on the net. I don't see FFXV players do that. You either see people that are ok with it, or more who are not pleased with it. I don't doubt that by appealing to the west they get new fans, but for how long they stay? And what about the old fans? Yeah, they keep losing them with every new installment. Sales only mean money to Squenix obviously, but to the fanbase this means nothing. Persona 5 gets more love with less sales by being a better RPG game

FF needs to go back to being Fantasy and an actual RPG

FallenAngel19841763d ago

@ Asp

Dragon Quest is the perfect example. It's ran nearly as long as Final Fantasy and it isn't in the same league because it isn't as willing to change. FFXV was also received better than FFXIII.

FFXV has sold better than FFXIII and it's going to continue on selling, so you really can't make the statement that it's been declining when evidence clearly proves otherwise.

Persona still isn't ever going to reach to Final Fantasy's status. FF will always have a larger fanbase.

I've seen plenty of people enjoy FFXV. Not only that but people on the internet aren't an exact representation of an entire fanbase. For example CoD: Infinite Warfare got one of the most disliked videos on YouTube, yet it still ended up being one of the best selling games of the year, even outselling Battlefied 1.

Final Fantasy is still an RPG series, nothing about that has changed.

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FallenAngel19841763d ago

Yet you seem to be forgetting something blatantly obvious. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy started in the exact same league along with Shin Megami Tensei.

FF's later success in the international market with FFVII allowed it to gain a larger budget. So let's not pretend that FF started out as a god among RPGs.

I'm using FFXV as a comparison since it's one of the main topics discussed in this article.

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alstruck1763d ago

They did a gamble with ffvii larger western marketing budget.. mostly because amazing western reception from ff iv, vi (or 2/3 at the time), and chrono trigger.. VII's success made them a ps1 rpg developer-publisher powerhouse

FallenAngel19841763d ago (Edited 1763d ago )

@ kal

And FFVII was able to gain a large budget in the first place because of the success of the franchise in the 4th generation. The success of FFVII was able to dramatically shape the future of the franchise.

Dragon Quest was a bigger franchise with DQI-DQIV than Final Fantasy was with FFI-FFIII in the 3rd gen. However Squaresoft's flagship franchise started pull ahead in the international market with FFIV & FFVI. Enix on the other hand kept DQV & DQVI in Japan which stunted its growth and worldwide appeal.

Thanks to that success Squaresoft was able to put in more resources into FFVII compared to what Enix did with DQVII and the way each respective franchise was handled later on is history. In fact DQVII most likely even got a localization in the first place because of the prior success of FFVII.

@ alstruck

Indeed. Not to mention that that Super Mario RPG also helped raised the awareness of the Final Fantasy brand during the 4th gen while Dragon Quest was entirely absent to western audiences that entire gen.

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Princess_Pilfer1763d ago

No, actually. If we exclude the MMOs, FF sales have been on a downward trend since FF10 (technically since FF7, but considering FF7s really high sales it's more of an outlier.) This trend didn't stop untill FF15, and if you read reviews of 15 they almost universally say the story is half missing or outright bad and the game is carried by the gameplay and characters, which means it got mass appeal not for being a good FF game, but for being (yet another) open world action game.

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Godmars2901763d ago

Yeah, agree with kalkano, with FF13 Square had proof that story didn't matter, and with FF15, which had other hang ups and delays, they put in as little effort. Leaning on franchise fandom, they're only going to get worse. If such is possible.

DragonKnight1763d ago

People are equating their own personal opinion to say the series is successful or a failure when the numbers are what you should look at.

FF has been on the decline because it has forgotten what the second F stands for. Each new FF game is more just Japanese Sci-Fi with Western graphics obsession.

Excluding the MMO, the last proper Fantasy title for FF was FFV. FFVI is where the reliance on sci-fi aspects started seeping in and FFVII is where it really took off. From then onward the Fantasy element kept consistently being reduced.

The franchise puts less reliance on deep storytelling. It favours on-rails progression and flash. Coincidentally just like a shooter.

BigC63911763d ago

@Dragon So what is your opinion of IX then? It's very much Fantasy focused. My favorite actually. :)

FallenAngel19841763d ago (Edited 1763d ago )

@ Dragon

Do you even Final Fantasy?

The series always had some form of sci-fi since the beginning. Let's not forget how FFI featured time travel and FFIV had you travel to the moon.

Not to mention that Final Fantasy has ALWAYS had western elements ever since FFI with its setting & mythology. FFX was the first title to predominantly eastern iconography and influences.

You're basically complaining that each new Final Fantasy is just more Final Fantasy.

Even the titles from FFI-FFV were drastically different from one another. So it's impossible to say what is or what isn't "proper." And the fantasy elements were very apparent in FFIX and FFXII.

The series has always frequently changed things up in various aspects. So making general sweeping generalizations is ridiculous and doesn't account for each title's individuality.

Godmars2901763d ago

"The franchise puts less reliance on deep storytelling."

Not really. More like sensical storytelling. Stories that introduced and took you through a world. Which is why FF4, 6, 7 and 10 often stand out as they do. Also why FF8, which introduced the guy funding Cid and the Academies but never showed where he came from, sticks in my craw as much as it does - one of many reasons in fact.

Why FF9 doesn't seem to get the recognition it should have is just beyond me.

Anyway, with FF12 "the World" got condensed into a group of European countries, and FF13 were only the notes for a proper games presented as a whole one because to technical incompetence and unfamiliarity. Same goes for FF15.

I mean, how is it that people forget that many things were changed between the decade it was first announced and when it released?

FallenAngel19841763d ago

@ Prin

What point does that prove? That still doesn't negate the fact that mainline FF games still end up one of the best selling games. FFXII & FFXIII sold a lot as well as FFXV.

And if you want to talk about downward trends like they absolutely mean something look at the bigger picture.

- No 3D Mario game has outsold Super Mario 64.

- No other Pokémon game has sold as well as the the Red/Blue or Gold/Silver. Diamond/Pearl comes in third with every other title beneath it.

- Kingdom Hearts has been on a downward trend since the beginning since no other game in the series has yet to outsell KH1.

- For the longest time no Tales of installment managed to outsell Tales of Symphonia until Tales of Xillia arrived. Now no other game in the series has yet to outsell Xillia.

I can bring up plenty of other franchises that also had downward trends, but my point has already been made. Many of the best franchises in gaming have had downward trends, but that doesn't make the following titles any lesser projects for not being the new best selling title in its respective series. Each franchise is still able to retain its old fans while gaining new ones as well.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1763d ago
Mr-Dude1765d ago

Best FF is still FFVIII for me, loved that game. Played it over and over again when it came out, have some good childhood memories about that game. I loved FF9 and 10 and 12. But I hated FF13, and after playing FF15... well it was okay. Not the best FF, but okay.

Becuzisaid1764d ago (Edited 1764d ago )

I love that game also, not sure what's got me stuck to it though. I recently played through the point in the game where you travel to Timber and talked with Rinoa for the "first" time, and she compliments you on your dancing, and Squall gives some line about how you have to learn new skills and blend in to your environments, so learning to dance was preparing him for the battlefield. Such bad writing.

But I still love that game.

ecchiless1764d ago

The dance scene is epic, i remember the first time i play the game and i was like this cant be real, theres no way they can do that kind of cgi, love the story, also my favorite ff game, i love the square soft from those times, great games in the PS, xenogears, chrono cross, final fantasy 7-8-9, vagrant story, parasite evil 1-2, brave fencer musashi.

k2d1763d ago

FF lost three things for me; a not overly convoluted, good plot;
challenging combat where you have to think on your feet, and;
Nobuo Uematsu.

Shin-Zantetsuken1763d ago

FF8 is my favorite FF too! It was my first FF game and I love it with all my heart. The locations, soundtrack, graphics, characters, gameplay etc. is my favorite. I just loved wandering around balamb garden, Winhill, Balamb City, or Fisherman Horizon with the soothing soundtrack playing in the background. Making every monster life miserable with a bad breath by Quistis and then ending it with a shockwave pulsar was my favorite past time. Triple Triad is my favorite minigame ever and played it for hours!

RedDevils1763d ago (Edited 1763d ago )

Same here like that one than 7, to me 8>10>9>7>12 >15>13

moegooner881765d ago

For starters, games used to launch with complete, worthwhile stories.

InKnight7s1764d ago

Final Fantasy was going tooooo high starting from VI till XII then XIII happened and again(XIII-2) and again (LR). XV was just ok but no!! it had potienials it shown as full deep game. Versus looked, sounded, placed and presented alot better than XV.

_-EDMIX-_1763d ago

Well you actually don't really know what Final Fantasy Versus was for all you know Final Fantasy 15 is exactly what that game was going to be give or take a few scenes.

I understand how easy it is to get trapped into this thinking of unknown, but you need to get over that you don't really even know what that game was for all you know it's story was probably just as bad as what the final story is for15 even the writer confirms that the vast majority of the story is what the original actually was.

Cuz it's starting to sound like lots of people want to live in this fantasy world where vs had this story in their mind that was the greatest story in gaming that simply because you're creating that in your mind you're never really seeing with the final version is so your assumption in regards to Fantasy is that it is exactly what you want when in reality it likely is almost exactly what 15 was in the first place we just don't have enough information to really say that vs story verbatim was going to be better than 15 simply because you don't even know if you're simply referring to the exact same story in the first place.

So it "looked" better, how do you know it was going to be better?

InKnight7s1763d ago

Well according to SE developers statements and their trailers the game changed alot they removed one whole character and create an whole different one, they changed the settings, they scratch whole city location and its fightings, they removed alot of gameplay elements, made the game less deep and less dark, changed the tone, changed cloth designs and influences, changed the engine, changed the whole name, changed the logo story, Nomura isn't the director assuming that you now directors vision change the whole thing and are really differents. They even said and insist that FFXV took 3 years development and Versus development isnt included. Most of points that I mentioned above are facts not opinions.

_-EDMIX-_1763d ago

@ink-except you actually don't know what those elements would have actually been in regards to execution to say if it was better or worse.

No one does.

In the concept at nomura created is still actually Final Fantasy 15 which is actually been confirmed by the current director in the current producers of the game.

ie it turned into Final Fantasy 15 nomura was still part of the development and still controlled the concept of the game.

Mind you it is an opinion not a fact that some of those elements taken out made the game less dark because you don't even know how much of that was even in the game to actually say the entire game would have been dark in the first place.

So when you're saying they made the game less deep and less dark exactly how tdo you even know the entire game 100% was going to be this dark game in the first place? Are you sure you're not just talking about one scene you saw?

My problem is a lot of this assumption is based on people who never actually played Final Fantasy Versus it's a literally you guys running on Fanboy emotions and writing fanfiction for a game you never played.

TheRealTedCruz1764d ago

Still enjoyed 9 and 12 the most. Never even touched the 13 series, and am waiting for 14 to hit steam.

ShadowWolf7121764d ago

I think you mean 15. 14 is on Steam.

_-EDMIX-_1763d ago

Exactly I've never actually played the 13 series and I would admittedly say I've given that game no real chance so I'm Square remasters all 3 on PlayStation 4 I might consider giving it a go.

Many people on the site of actually confirmed to me it's not really that bad the story might be pretty terrible but they told me the gameplay is pretty fun.

That rumor is still going around about Square making this big final fantasy collection that's Final Fantasy 1 through 10 lol

It wouldn't shock me and it sounds more believable.